The TV show is sexist!!!!

[weedle_mchairybug]

I don't know why you would feel bad about showing that video, it's just a clip (and I didn't even know you had a clip :/) The only thing wrong with it is that I, as a girl, don't understand how it is offensive to girls. I mean, if someone announces a big celebrity is coming and people cheer and run off to where they are...that's just what people do. I'm just surprised that people wanted the toy dolls. But then, I never liked dolls. (I threw cars at my barbie house hahaha)

Sigh, several people (notably one of my relatives) thought that the way they portrayed the women in that episode as loud whiney airheads was a despicable and sexist way to portray them, and that they didn't like how they portrayed them. Heck, ask your friends or your parents about whether that scene was putting girls at a bad light, and I'm certain they (or at least some of them) probably would say it is.

As for why I feel bad about showing it, it's because some of the people whom I show the video to on the net always seem to mock me (the responses to my Youtube Videos are a big enough testament to that), and Serebii.Net Forums/BMGf forums are also doing this.

Masamitsu Hidaka never said it was their only purpose in the anime, and we don't even know if he was joking or what. If looking pretty was their sole purpose, they would not have bothered with contests, with them battling, and maturing May throughout AG and gaining confidence, which she had a lot of by DP . Instead, they could've just had her role as to cheer on Ash, dress up every single episode and have an occasional episode about her so she can enter a beauty contest.

ahem...

So then I said, "Why can't you just ditch Brock, have Ash, have Misty, and then bring in a new boy? That would be switching up things instead of having a new girl." His following answers made me laugh my head off – I had to pick it up off the floor and reattach it. He stated that they like to switch up the girls because it gives the boys some new eye candy every once in a while. He also said girls are more customizable and you can change their outfits, like when they are in their bathing suits (yes, he specifically said that). He also said Ken Sugimori designs a new girl with each generation and that gives them another excuse to switch the girl, though I reminded him that there is also a new boy with each generation too, and it wouldn't hurt to use them.

I'm pretty sure that if it was also for battling and other things, he would have explicitly said that rather than say (or imply, at the very least) that the only thing they have for the girls are eye-candy.

Also, battles? Other than the battle against gym assisstant Sid, Oscar and Andy, and the dojo incident, when has May actually battled (Team Rocket and Contest Battles don't count, since they aren't true battles [in the case of Contest battles, they aren't even battles. I mean, Zoey, Scott, and Brock confirmed they aren't battles. {the former's obvious, and the latter was with how Ash's battling style adopted by May is actually costing her more than gaining, which implies that Contest Battles aren't battles.}.], and the Mirage Mewtwo incident was more pinning him down to have Pikachu deliver the final blow than an ACTUAL battle, anyways, so it doesn't count either.).

As for Dawn, I can agree with you in regards to having a bit more battles than May, but it's still a far cry from Misty's battles.

As for him Joking, I doubt this. I mean, how many people joke around in an interview about how things were going? I mean, Shigeru Miyamoto didn't joke around when interviewed about Starfox 64, and he's the more giddier of game creators.

I'm not saying they don't ever use them for fanservice (they obviously are, but every character gets fanservice...you seen the episode in DP where Ash only wears a Tarzan dress thing?) but their main role is obviously to appeal to girls to make them feel involved in the show and that Pokemon is a game that is not only for boys.

Funny, because the whole "Boytoy/Swimsuit" comment from him seemed more like they were implying the exact opposite of what you said. Note, I usually don't trust him with comments, but this is an exception due to the fact that I already reached that conclusion long before that inteview was even thought out, as it couldn't have been staleness as everyone claims, since if it was, they also would have removed Brock, and even Ash for that same reason.

 

[PorygonSquared]

He also said girls are more customizable and you can change their outfits, like when they are in their bathing suits (yes, he specifically said that). He also said Ken Sugimori designs a new girl with each generation and that gives them another excuse to switch the girl.

What's your point? Misty showed up in bathing suits a lot, so she's not the exception or anything.

Sigh, several people (notably one of my relatives) thought that the way they portrayed the women in that episode as loud whiney airheads was a despicable and sexist way to portray them, and that they didn't like how they portrayed them. Heck, ask your friends or your parents about whether that scene was putting girls at a bad light, and I'm certain they (or at least some of them) probably would say it is.

THINK FOR YOURSELF! Geez, do you have to rely on other people to argue for you or something?

Also, battles? Other than the battle against gym assisstant Sid, Oscar and Andy, and the dojo incident, when has May actually battled (Team Rocket and Contest Battles don't count, since they aren't true battles [in the case of Contest battles, they aren't even battles. I mean, Zoey, Scott, and Brock confirmed they aren't battles. {the former's obvious, and the latter was with how Ash's battling style adopted by May is actually costing her more than gaining, which implies that Contest Battles aren't battles.}.], and the Mirage Mewtwo incident was more pinning him down to have Pikachu deliver the final blow than an ACTUAL battle, anyways, so it doesn't count either.).

Semantic nonsense.

By the way, you do realize Jorah is female, right?

 

[Shedinjareese]

About the screaming girls, recall Tucker from Battle Frontier for a moment: his whole audience was blind from the hearts in their eyes. Pokemon never says ALL girls are like this, just the type who would partake in the Princess Day Festivities (wholeheartedly moreof) and the ones who would watch Tucker battle every time. Personally, I am annoyed how all of the girl characters are somehow played up so that you notice their femininity, but this isn't just Pokemon, it's all TV Shows. You'll rarely find a girl character whose story and life don't focus around particular women stereotypes.

That said, I think Pokemon is actually one of the better shows about this. There are a ton of women who battle and who are strong, many without even being revealing or wearing skirts/dresses. Jessie and James from Team Rocket have always been a sort of an example of typical role-reversal, which is both gratifying and humorous. I think if anyone wants to complain about a show being sexist against girls, Pokemon is not the one to go after.

 

[Vernikova]

The thread was created because of it being sexist to guys actually shedinja. :( '

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

He also said girls are more customizable and you can change their outfits, like when they are in their bathing suits (yes, he specifically said that). He also said Ken Sugimori designs a new girl with each generation and that gives them another excuse to switch the girl.

What's your point? Misty showed up in bathing suits a lot, so she's not the exception or anything.

True, but, did she actually try to parade in them, or strip on the beach, or pose wantingly in said bathing suits? Because, really, that's the only way it counts. I mean, Love Hina, Witchblade, some other films involving disgraces to women, they all feature the exact same thing with women, they (the female characters/models) ENJOY being nude, all portrayed that way to tiddle the audience.

THINK FOR YOURSELF! Geez, do you have to rely on other people to argue for you or something?

Considering how several people rely on their government, their teachers, and other people to know how things work, yes. Besides, I already polled several people in regards to it, so even IF I didn't believe my family, the mere fact that several people oppose this stereotype should be enough for me to realize that it's a bad stereotype.

Semantic nonsense.

If you must call that semantic nonsense, I guess that Brock and Scott's conversation about May's Ash-battle strategy contests, as well as Zoey's rationale that Battles and Contests simply do not equate must be semantic nonsense, as well, since that was said countless times.

By the way, you do realize Jorah is female, right?

Yes, I do realize that.

Also, yes, I guess it's a little sexist to guys (though not enough for me to worry, especially since they are treating women like dirt by just replacing them when their usefulness has ended, rehashing their goals in the process, [like May being removed after AG has ended], while they don't remove any of the male protagonists [even IF Ash is the star, be-all-end-all of the anime, that doesn't mean that he or especially Brock can't be replaced.].).

 

[Vernikova]

The females become some of the most praised characters in Pokémon because of their character development. They jumped the gun with bringing Misty to Johto because her character didn't get too far anymore. If May had been kept, the same would've happened to her.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

The females become some of the most praised characters in Pokémon because of their character development. They jumped the gun with bringing Misty to Johto because her character didn't get too far anymore. If May had been kept, the same would've happened to her.

That still doesn't explain keeping Ash and Brock despite their also not getting too far anymore, either. I mean, They REALLY jumped the gun by having Ash travel to Sinnoh, since his trying to challenge gyms, and his difficulty with them is nonsensical. I mean, he beat the Battle Frontier, which was rumored to be far more powerful than EVEN the Elite 4. They pretty much had nothing more to offer for Ash. heck, they didn't have anything to offer for Ash since the Orange Islands ended, since he already won the Orange Islands League.

As for Brock, he probably didn't have much to offer to the show to begin with. I mean, even if he did, Beauty and the Breeder kinda sealed up all loose ends since he already won a Breeder Convention.

I mean, Red was replaced in Pokemon Special, and he was purported to be the Be-All, End-All star of the manga.

I mean, what's the point of removing the female protagonists if Ash and Brock aren't removed, either? My viewpoint is, either they replace ALL of the main characters as soon as they get stale, or they don't replace any of them.

 

[Vernikova]

Your view point is understandable but I stand by my point. The show would fail there with Ash gone. Replacing someone who doesn't own the franchise's mascot (Piplup isn't official yet) is simpler.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Your view point is understandable but I stand by my point. The show would fail there with Ash gone. Replacing someone who doesn't own the franchise's mascot (Piplup isn't official yet) is simpler.

Didn't Red own the franchise's mascot as well? I mean, he owns a Pikachu (and despite not being his starter, it soon became as prevalent, if not even moreso than, his own Venusaur.), which is the franchise's mascot, and yet... despite that, he was still replaced, and the ratings in Japan for that manga haven't gone down even once.

 

[Shedinjareese]

The thread was created because of it being sexist to guys actually shedinja. :( '

(If that was directed at me) I know but that's not what was being currently argued. I just had a very broad idea on the current argument (sexist to girls) so couldn't quote people but it was supposed to fall in line with what the others were saying.

To everyone else: try not to get too heated, guys, you know it's not really that bad. It's not nearly as sexist (to either gender) as other animes even.

 

[Vernikova]

Yet the media Red was on is nothing to the level of popularity to the show. Thus the reason VIZ Media doesn't translate PokeSpecial anymore and PUSA isn't doing the samething it did for the cards and show. It's a business Weedle and you have to do what brings you success.

 

[thorn96]

Ugh... no one knows what I mean. Okay. Fine then. No more complaining. I hope this thread
gets closed!

~Requests a closer~

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Yet the media Red was on is nothing to the level of popularity to the show. Thus the reason VIZ Media doesn't translate PokeSpecial anymore and PUSA isn't doing the samething it did for the cards and show. It's a business Weedle and you have to do what brings you success.

It's not? Funny, since that I figured how, since several people and their brother are saying how Pokemon Special is better than the Anime, and how they should do cast changes like they did in Pokemon Special, I figured that they were on the same level as the show, if not higher.

And actually, I heard rumors that Viz was probably going to translate the D/P manga among other things, which may try to revive Poke-special in America.

Also, the mere fact that Pokemon Special is even continuing in Japan with high sales serves as a testament that most of the people thought that their replacing the entire cast is enough to justify this.

Besides, that still doesn't explain Brock still being on the show despite being considered the stalest character.

@Thorn96: In regards to your original topic, I can see how you would feel it's sexist towards guys, but it's more along the lines as it being sexist towards girls, as it implies that they are nothing more than tools to replace once it's worn out and used.

 

[Trap-Eds]

For the love of gravy. Pokemon isn't sexist. You guys are taking things WAAAAAAAY out of proportion.

Also, no, it's not just that the main characters are boys, it's also for the fact that, with the exception of Misty, all the main female protagonists are used for eye-candy purposes only (Masamitsu Hidaka said this himself).

That...can't be true. It just can't. America 4Kids would NEVER air Pokemon if that was the reason!!

Sexist? Were did you get that Idea? If the show was sexist, there'd be a war by now:

USA: You friggin Japanese are Sexist!
JPN: So we made a Sexist show! Sue us!
USA: Hell yeah!
UN:Shut up both of you!
JPN: *Rebombs Pearl Haorbor*
USA: You sunsofa-... *H-Bombs Tokyo*
JPN: WE GIVE IN
USA: HAHA!
AdvancedK9: I'm moving to Mexico -_-.

Well, you get the Idea, just some international conflict.

Yeah, I agree with you. :laugh:

 

[Vernikova]

The only pokémon manga in America right now is Diamond and Pearl Adventure. They tried to bring back PokeSpecial in America, while people were saying it was better than the animé, and it again failed.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

For the love of gravy. Pokemon isn't sexist. You guys are taking things WAAAAAAAY out of proportion.

So... I guess many people's reactions to Love Hina's depictions of Females, as well as Witchblade, and the magazines for Master Roshi were, how to put it, "Out of Proportion" in terms of whether they are sexist or not? or heck, Playboy even?

That...can't be true. It just can't. America 4Kids would NEVER air Pokemon if that was the reason!!

Hate to break it to you, but it's true. please take a good look at this if you don't believe me:

So then I said, "Why can't you just ditch Brock, have Ash, have Misty, and then bring in a new boy? That would be switching up things instead of having a new girl." His following answers made me laugh my head off – I had to pick it up off the floor and reattach it. He stated that they like to switch up the girls because it gives the boys some new eye candy every once in a while. He also said girls are more customizable and you can change their outfits, like when they are in their bathing suits (yes, he specifically said that). He also said Ken Sugimori designs a new girl with each generation and that gives them another excuse to switch the girl, though I reminded him that there is also a new boy with each generation too, and it wouldn't hurt to use them.

And also, 4kids? heheheheh... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! 4kids had their fair share of questionable innuendo. For example, in the episode "Havin a Wailord of a time", 4Kids edited the original speech of Team Rocket to be basically a Viagra reference:

Side Note
Is it me, or did the dubbers add a LOT of sexual innuendo in the script of this episode? Team Rocket sure does seem to have a theme going on in this episode, as these random quotes show:

Meowth: "Yeah, that might be right up his tree. You know how the boss likes having anything just so long as that thing is the biggest or the best?"

Meowth: "That ain't all that'll be enhanced when the boss sees this!"

James: "There's no way we're unloading this priceless package"

...and, the icing on the cake:

Team Rocket: "It pays to have protection~!!!"

Obviously, 4Kids realizes that there are older fans out there who still watch the show. Thanks for the heads up, 4Kids.

Also, here's a... err... questionable quote from Jessie when she's wrestling with Seviper in it's capture episode, AKA, "A tail with a twist":

Jessie: "Catch this one, you cupcake. Now that I've seen how tough that Serviper is, I want to grab it even more~!"

Dogasu even commented on it's being somewhat of a dirty innuendo on his episode comparison.

Yeah, I agree with you. :laugh:

you know, if sexism led to war, why is it that the whole Jynx controversy didn't lead up to WWIII against Japan?

Also, S. Magumarashi, if Pokemon Special was truly not better than the anime, why is it that several fans want it to be like the anime, and besides which, why is it actually getting a lot more sales than the Anime (By that, I mean in Japan)?

 

[Vernikova]

I never said it tas better. I said PokeSpecial failed in America, the UK, etc, while the show didn't. People weren't interested in it, they tried to bring it back to see if people were still interested in ita few years later. The sales were poor again

 

[Trap-Eds]

Sheesh....

So... I guess many people's reactions to Love Hina's depictions of Females, as well as Witchblade, and the magazines for Master Roshi were, how to put it, "Out of Proportion" in terms of whether they are sexist or not? or heck, Playboy even?

Uhhhh....what on earth does that have to do with Pokemon? :\

And also, 4kids? heheheheh... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! 4kids had their fair share of questionable innuendo. For example, in the episode "Havin a Wailord of a time", 4Kids edited the original speech of Team Rocket to be basically a Viagra reference:

If you ask me, the only reference was when Team Rocket said "It pays to have protection!!" and even then, weren't they talking about something completly different?

Also, here's a... err... questionable quote from Jessie when she's wrestling with Seviper in it's capture episode, AKA, "A tail with a twist":

Jessie: "Catch this one, you cupcake. Now that I've seen how tough that Serviper is, I want to grab it even more~!"

Dogasu even commented on it's being somewhat of a dirty innuendo on his episode comparison.

Okay.....How on earth does that reference...what we're arguing about?? Seriously!!

you know, if sexism led to war, why is it that the whole Jynx controversy didn't lead up to WWIII against Japan?

I simply meant that sometimes America takes things too seriously.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Uhhhh....what on earth does that have to do with Pokemon? :\

Hey, you were the one who mentioned how there isn't sexism in pokemon and that people are taking things WAY out of proportion. I only used those examples and asked if people took sexism out of proportion in these as a counterarguement.

If you ask me, the only reference was when Team Rocket said "It pays to have protection!!" and even then, weren't they talking about something completly different?

Well, don't ask me, I'm just the messenger. You should ask dogasu, since he's the one who pointed it out.

Okay.....How on earth does that reference...what we're arguing about?? Seriously!!

sigh... here's the dogasu's backpack comparison:

https://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/comparisons/houen/ep008.html

it's the second quote in the side notes section.

I simply meant that sometimes America takes things too seriously.

Well, yeah, but the line you stated was funny was in regards to America/the UN going to war with Japan just because of sexism. I commented asking why they didn't go to war when Carol Weatherford got ticked at Japan for Jynx.

Also, S. Magumarashi, yes, that's true, but some people think the writers/creators care for the most part about their OWN audience than American/international viewers, which proves to be a valid arguement nonetheless.

 

[shedinjask]

well i for one am all for replacing ash

but nooooooooo, the fans would freak out