Transgender

[twocows]

Without the legislation, some of their rights are not incorporated via the 14th amendment. Unfortunately, they are not protected like other individuals. I know it would be nice to simply suggest to people that they should not hold prejudice against a transgender person during a job, housing, or adoption interview, but without a specific law, acts of discrimination cannot be punished nor will transgender people be able to be treated as equals.

That's nonsense. Acts of discrimination are already covered under traditional laws. Assault is assault, regardless of who it's against. And I'm pretty sure the Equal Protection clause of the 14th says "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." You don't need to add on to that. What protection that everyone else has isn't implied by that?

 

[-ty-]

That's nonsense. Acts of discrimination are already covered under traditional laws. Assault is assault, regardless of who it's against. And I'm pretty sure the Equal Protection clause of the 14th says "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." You don't need to add on to that. What protection that everyone else has isn't implied by that?

I never mentioned assault. As far as job, housing, custody, marriage and other important things many states do not provide anti-discrimination for transgender people. They do however, though the 14th amendment and incorporation include race, ethnicity, disabled, socioeconomic background, and sexuality. You can literally deny someone whom is transgender a job in these states because the laws do not encompass them. They are not protected by "traditional laws". But I agree that these anti-discrimination laws should be included as amendments to other pieces of legislation that stipulate equality among the above groups I listed. If transgenders were included then they would be equal; well or at least closer to equality.

Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?

I'll answer this one, no. Because it's a cosmetic procedure and insurance doesn't cover cosmetic procedures unless it's life threatening.

It is false that insurance does not cover cosmetic procedures that also have proven benefits whether they are psychological or physical.

It's not simply a cosmetic procedure. Like losing a limb, yes a prosthetic is cosmetic procedure, but it may be necessary for psychological or mobility purposes.

The American Psychological Association contends that yes some people do not need the surgery, however, when the symptoms become, yes, life threatening, and have a severe effect on mental health, then the procedures and therapies may be the only resort.


Again, health insurance covers dental, psychological disorders, lice treatment, and so many other things that are helpful to treat/cure non-life threatening conditions. That is also an invalid argument.

You have a penis, you are a male.

You have a vagina, you are a female.

With these two facts stated, can you explain to me just what other types of organs there are that call for diffrent gender definitions? Thats right. NONE. Therefor, all other 'gender definitions' are technically a mental condition which is UNEFFECTED by surgerys which effect PHYSICAL conditions. That said, I have no problem with transgenders but I don't want my tax dollars to fund cosmetic surgerys.

Aslo, to Gothitelle, +1. Its nice to see another person who see's these expensive surgerys for what they REALLY are which is just another cosmetic surgery ment to make people feel good about themselves.

[sarcasm]Anyway, to everyone, mentally, im genderless. By this, I mean I don't feel sexual attraction to either gender. Does this mean that im going to undergo a sugery to remove my penis? No. [/sarcasm]

The average cost for a male-to-female surgery is about $17,000. Adding in a cost of about $1000 for therapy, $1500 for hormones, and $500 for doctors visits and lab tests, the cost to transition averages about $20,000 over a two year transition period. (After completion of surgery, ongoing costs drop dramatically to cover only a small maintenence level of hormones.)

If these procedures are not covered by insurance, the transsexual must pay for them personally. Most surgeons require payment in advance. People have to save money for years to complete their transition. Those in lower paying jobs often can never afford the surgery. The impact on an individual can be overpowering.

"How much would it cost your company/state insurance to cover the basic medical needs of a transsexual? Transsexualism is very rare. According to the DSM-IV, it affects an estimated 1 in 30,000 people, The latest research estimates that the total annual cost per insured is $.05 to cover surgery, or $.17 to cover surgery, hormones, and therapy. With medical insurance costing upwards of $4,000 per year, the to cover THBs would be about .004%."

Umm, I think we can spare a quarter of a dollar (that is if ALL transgender people had the operations and therapies), for all transgender people to have an operation and therapies. And as I have stated, the APA has deemed this operation to medically necessary when counseling is not enough to combat depression, anxiety, social disorders, and other serious mental health issues that inhibit normative functioning to live a healthy life.

 

[Livewire]

I'm going to remind you all to behave yourselves this one time. This thread's bad enough as is.

 

[yasu]

Ideally, this sort of thing should be covered by a health insurance scheme. So many people do not truly understand how mentally damaging it can be for transgenders. And I think some people in this thread watch too much TV and have probably never even met a transgender.

But healthcare companies doesn't even cover people who are dying from serious illness, I don't see how they would ever have the heart to help transgender people. This is a nasty world, it probably won't happen.

 

[-ty-]

Ideally, this sort of thing should be covered by a health insurance scheme. So many people do not truly understand how mentally damaging it can be for transgenders. And I think some people in this thread watch too much TV and have probably never even met a transgender.

But healthcare companies doesn't even cover people who are dying from serious illness, I don't see how they would ever have the heart to help transgender people. This is a nasty world, it probably won't happen.

Yes exactly, the average person is not acquainted or close to a transgender person. I think a lot of people think that a transgender person is some type of dancer/escort/adult film star. 99%+ of transgender people are just "regular" people just trying to live their lives. It doesn't help that in media/entertainment transgender people are often looked at as if they are "perverted" the same goes with gay people. I think once we are able to look past the false stereotypes by knowing other transgender people as friends or family, we will start to understand what struggles as a human they go through. I personally, have a cousin that is undergoing treatments to become female. Her work provided the coverage for the therapies and surgeries. Every time I see her, she seems to become increasingly happier and positive. As a family, we are all supportive, and very thankful that her work covered her transformation. Just a couple years ago, she had attempted suicide. We didn't even know why; it was the scariest thing. I just would like to see the same for other transgender people that have similar circumstances. With that being said, she doesn't use public bathrooms in fear that she is going to be beat-up. It's also sad to see that in her state she cannot get married, jointly adopt, nor will she have the same opportunities for jobs and housing. She is soooo lucky that she knows the guy whom runs the car plant and has worked there for several years or she would not have that job. So what I am trying to say is, before making assumptions, or taking for granted transgender people's struggles meet one and find out that they are painfully average people, lol.

 

[BareBones]

Wow a good amount of this thread is incredibly erroneous.



Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize that you were the person who defined genders. Not to mention that, oh there's an entire gender spectrum. You know genderqueer, etc. Although I would suppose you're right. They were born either male or female, and that's how they currently feel. They don't feel comfortable in their body though. You can make the argument that they were born the male gender but being in the female body, yes.



That makes absolutely no sense. There will always be discrimination wherever you go if you're a member of the LGBTQ. Even in an liberal country (I live in Canada, for example.) it's still a huge hassle just to be what is supposedly different. I can't possibly see anybody choosing to act that way. a) It's an entire waste of time. b) You're just going to get discriminated against anyways so just continue acting yourself and being straight.



There is absolutely nothing to abuse about being a homosexual. If you're seriously putting through the effort to lie about your sexual preference (especially when it puts you in a worse position) then I have no idea what to say. I can imagine people being incredibly confused and switching back and forth. I don't judge that way, because I don't have any idea what they are going through. There's no more freedom in being gay than if there were being straight.



Thank you. This is something that a lot of people don't actually know. They need to have a psychological assessment before undergoing the surgery.

Transgendered people deserve the exact same treatment and rights that the rest of the population does. If they need another law to be put in place so that they can be equal then so be it. The general education about transgendered people needs to be increased too. The good lot of people (minus -ty- I'm guessing) haven't been completely informed on the subject. Which isn't necessarily bad, because there's always room to learn.

I completely agree with this person. A lot of people say no without even reading the facts about the disorder, and the surgery. They base their opinions on movies and people they have seen dancing onstage in a club.
Honestly, if you want to argue for -or- against something do the research first or your argument will just fall through.

Also, I agree with the whole bit about there being nothing to abuse about being homosexual. They have no more rights than a hetrosexual person

And finally, the part about the gender spectrum. Don't think in such black and white terms when it comes to the mind. Physically, you're one or the other (except for the rare case of hermaphrodites). Mentally, there's an entire spectrum that most people choose to ignore entirely or just have never been told about.

Iunno who made that image, but I feel it's highly appropriate.

 

[Esper]

When you think about the things that insurance companies don't cover it sounds extreme to ask for surgeries and therapies to be included. When you think about all the things that insurance companies should cover then it sounds extreme for them not to cover it. Think about it. There aren't too many trans people out there. The costs of covering cancer medication or HIV or any of a hundred or thousand things, plenty of which are not "life threatening" even, and they get coverage. It doesn't seem expensive to me. Furthermore it makes sense to offer surgery to someone as a preventative measure. It's not enough to wait for someone to have psychological problems. Frankly, that's cruel. It's like saying that you have to suffer before you can get help. And then you take into account that not everyone who is trans is going to want surgery the costs go down further. And, and, and it's better to have a doctor working with someone than having someone self-medicate with hormones.

 

[Charliezard]

Ideally I'd like to go with Twocows. Although if legislation is needed (This isn't an issue I'm active in... I've never even known a transgendered person) it should be worded, as others have said, as a general anti-hate thingy without singling out gays, blacks, transgendered people, white people, etc.

But

Can someone explain the difference between
1. Someone changing their gender because they feel depressed and miserable as their current gender and they believe a change would make them happy and comfortable with who they are
and 2. Someone changing the size of their nose or something else because they feel ugly, depressed and miserable and believe changing their body would make them happy and comfortable with who they are.

I've nothing against transgendered people but if you don't think the second situation should be funded by the Government then why should the first? Or if you do think the second situation should be funded by the Government... There is a limited amount of money going around and operations like that are exensive so where do we draw the line?

 

[Esper]

Can someone explain the difference between
1. Someone changing their gender because they feel depressed and miserable as their current gender and they believe a change would make them happy and comfortable with who they are
and 2. Someone changing the size of their nose or something else because they feel ugly, depressed and miserable and believe changing their body would make them happy and comfortable with who they are.

One is a root problem and the other is a symptom of some other problem. If you hate your nose you have self-esteem issues, or something along those lines and it's your self-esteem that needs help and something like counseling could help (though surgery to change it could help, too, even if it's not the only solution). When you feel you have the wrong body that's the root problem itself. You won't find something causing it which can be helped because it is the root problem and has to be dealt with because to varying degrees it's debilitating psychologically.

People who go through surgery spend a lot of time talking with doctors and other medical types to make sure that what they're doing is the right thing and to find out if something less invasive and involved would work better. People who get nose jobs, well, I don't know too much about that but I would assume there isn't as much screening to see if something else will help them feel better. You see, when someone decides to go for surgery it's gonna be because nothing else is going to help. I think that's the biggest difference.

 

[Charliezard]

One is a root problem and the other is a symptom of some other problem. If you hate your nose you have self-esteem issues, or something along those lines and it's your self-esteem that needs help and something like counseling could help (though surgery to change it could help, too, even if it's not the only solution). When you feel you have the wrong body that's the root problem itself. You won't find something causing it which can be helped because it is the root problem and has to be dealt with because to varying degrees it's debilitating psychologically.

People who go through surgery spend a lot of time talking with doctors and other medical types to make sure that what they're doing is the right thing and to find out if something less invasive and involved would work better. People who get nose jobs, well, I don't know too much about that but I would assume there isn't as much screening to see if something else will help them feel better. You see, when someone decides to go for surgery it's gonna be because nothing else is going to help. I think that's the biggest difference.

I didn't think of that but that makes quite a bit of sense.

 

[DowntownDumpling]

Should more states create legislation to combat anti-transgender behaviors?

Transgender people are often ridiculed and/or harassed by some heterosexuals and even by some homosexuals without the ability to take any legal actions to protect their rights; sadly, we live in a fairly judgmental world. Only 13 states provide legislation to protect transgender people from discrimination at work, housing placement, custodianship, public bathroom access, and a whole lot more. Some opponents of anti-gender discrimination claim that such legislation would call for all unisex bathrooms, and/or their religious rights are being encroached upon. First of all, after the legalities are settled, a transgender person is permitted to only use a facility that is designated for whichever gender they associate themselves with. Secondly, transgender people should be able to do as they please with their image and lifestyle as long as it is not directly harmful to someone; I doubt that anyone's religious freedoms will be taken away just because they cannot discriminate against them!

Yes, but as many others have said here, it's time to stop singling out certain groups for discrimination.

Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?

The American Psychological Associations generally believes that the above therapies and surgeries are vital for a transgender person to overcome severe psychological issues that arise from what has been deemed Gender Identity Disorder. Many insurances will not pay for these remedies, superciliously viewing the operations as frivolous and unnecessary for health. I believe that insurance should pay for the operations since these surgeries and therapies could be vital for a transgender person's mental health - which is kinda important!

Yes.