Undiscovered pokemon of tomorrow's metagame is....

[Anti]

We're not arguing that Anger Point is a fun/boring option, we're arguing if it's a viable one (which is good because we agree in that regard). I mean there will always be room for having a little fun trying your luck with Anger Point Tauros, but in a thread dedicated to proving Tauros's viability in the standard metagame, it doesn't matter as much, and "let loose and have fun" sure doesn't (not saying that it doesn't have a spot because it does in the metagame, but that's generally for pokemon that have more options and ability than Tauros). Likewise, I agree that being outclassed doesn't mean you aren't viable, but Tauros is on the borderline of not being viable (regardless of if it's outclassed or not).

To be fair though, Infernape never uses Flare Blitz and Staraptor is virtually never seen...maybe a reason for that? I agree Double-Edge makes Tauros a hell of a lot more viable, but it's a fair point. Also, I agree that prediction can be reversed the beat its "checks" like Heatran and Gengar, but you must remember that Tauros has many counters that prediction will not save it from. The real disadvantage though (as is with all weaker Choice Banders) is that after its attack is revealed, even frail sweepers with a resistance (or an immunity of course) can afford to come in and set up on Tauros like it was Scarfgar.

But to ensure progress...

I think we can all agree that:

A) Tauros can be successful given the right support and circumstances but is outclassed and is generally a poor option for OU teams that need a powerful, stand-alone sweeper.

B) Its novelty sets can be fun but are generally even poorer (especially given Intimidate's superiority to Anger Point in almost every way).

C) Tauros can be effective in the hands of a very skilled player but still has trouble with its counters and your standard stall team. Against offense it can do more with its high speed and ability to pick on frail sweepers.

 

[sims796]

Not exactly. For one thing, I only bought up Anger Point in order to speak of his alternative options. If it wasn't a point' it should have never been aruged in the first place. As said before, luck is a strategy in its own as well. It is a very workable one as well, I've won a few with it. But not much, because I am unlucky :(. Basically, the reason I bought up Anger Point as a novelty is because it certainly isn't a terrible option. Especially compared to most others (ratatta). I see Anger Point as an alternative option on its own, rather than a pure novelty.

And just because Staravia isn't used much doesn't mean that is the fault of his "suicide options". Could be because of his frailty. It is still a viable move for him. Nape doesn't use Flare Blitz not because of the recoil, but because his mixed sets are superior. Still, your point stands.

Regardless, I agree with your points, but have a few more to add.

Tauros is not really a main sweeper. he can clean up well, hurt things in the beginning, and weaken the opposition enough for your main sweeper. Samson and I have used it with great success, so we can say it isn't bad at all.

 

[.]

Yeah. First, you never proved why Anger Point sucks. You kinda dismissed most of my cases, without ACTUALLY aadressing them.

If you need proof why Anger Point sucks, you obviously haven't played in the metagame today. Not only is it COMPLETELY reliant on luck, but Tauros still can't even OHKO walls such as Skarmory.

Double Edge a suicide move? Doesn't Infernape use Flare Blitz? Doesn't Staraptor use Double Edge/Brave Bird? Just because it has a recoil, doesn't mapke it a desprate move. Hell, Outrage has an even more serious setback.

Infernape does not use Flare Blitz. Staraptor is almost never seen, and Staraptor never uses Double Edge. Unlike Tauros, it's strong enough to hurt things with Return. Brave Bird is its only decent flying STAB, and even on the Smogon analysis, it reccomends to save Brave Bird for EXTREME cases.


As I said, Anger Pont is for the high risk/high reward strategy. Just because YOU don't use it, doesn't mean it sucks. Especially if your aim is to LET LOOSE & HAVE FUN, which I've also adressed. I've stated the fact that Anger Point is inferior, but it has a workable set that is a blast to use.

It being fun doesn't add to its viability. High risk/high reward is great and all, but when something is reliant on LUCK, then its an inferior option in nearly all circumstances.

Tauros can 2HKO most pokes that you have mentioned, and is faster than the others. Tauros also has a move for each of those pokes. If you are outpredicted then that's on you, but I've taken out those pokes (except Scizor, for some reason) many times before. Sure, I've been outpredicted a time or two. Big deal. You are only speaking one side of the spectrum (IF they switch in on this, then blah blah blah). You'll need spot on playing to use it, but it is a very rewarding, very enjoyable poke to use.

Tauros never beats things like Skarmory, Hippowdon, Celebi, etc...All are the tanks in the metagame that are commonly seen, and the fact that a STAB Return or Stone Edge doesn't 2HKO any of them makes Tauros easier to wall.

And as I said, just because it is outclassed, doesn't make it viable. I never said that it was the go to poke, nor did I say it was superior to any other option. But it certainly isn't terrible or unusable if you wanted to. With such a huge nitch with today's metagame, he can fit in quite comfortably when played right. there is more than just the 20 pokes in the metagame.

Yes, because I definately said it was unviable. If something is outclassed, then it won't take a genius to realize it won't be used/favored as much. Tauros isn't "bad", but in a metagame devired with sheer power, Tauros struggles to leave an impact.

Not exactly. For one thing, I only bought up Anger Point in order to speak of his alternative options. If it wasn't a point' it should have never been aruged in the first place. As said before, luck is a strategy in its own as well. It is a very workable one as well, I've won a few with it. But not much, because I am unlucky :(. Basically, the reason I bought up Anger Point as a novelty is because it certainly isn't a terrible option. Especially compared to most others (ratatta). I see Anger Point as an alternative option on its own, rather than a pure novelty.

Luck isn't a strategy =/ If luck is your strategy, expect to lose many of your matches from now on.

And just because Staravia isn't used much doesn't mean that is the fault of his "suicide options". Could be because of his frailty. It is still a viable move for him. Nape doesn't use Flare Blitz not because of the recoil, but because his mixed sets are superior. Still, your point stands.

NP / Focus Blast / Flamethrower / Grass Knot weak imo.

Regardless, I agree with your points, but have a few more to add.

Tauros is not really a main sweeper. he can clean up well, hurt things in the beginning, and weaken the opposition enough for your main sweeper. Samson and I have used it with great success, so we can say it isn't bad at all.

Late game cleaner describes Tauros well enough for me. Sadly, almost anything sweeps late game =[

 

[sims796]

Yes, it is very much a strategy. not one that you use, but a workable one. A person can win many matches, and lose just as many.

But that is a dicussion for another day, and one that Anti & I respectfully had.

And this is a bit annoying, I must admit, but I have never claimed that Tauros is favored, or even the premier choice. but he is an option, and not a bad one.

Ilm a little exausted stating the same points, which Anti seems to understand well enough.

 

[Anti]

I tend to agree with sims, while we can argue about the nooks and crannies of this we can all agree that Tauros pretty much stinks compared to everything else.

 

[sims796]

To clarify my psost, since Anti posted the jist of it, my point was...

Tauros isn't a terrible choice. Certainly isn't the best choice, but you certainly won't lose matches because you have it.

Anger Point, while not the best ability, isn't unusable. If you like the high risk, high reward style of play, it is a very rewarding, but very risky style of play.

He won't take the metagame by storm, there are other options, but he isn't the wosrt.

 

[luke]

k

This thread sucks. Just going to close it now.