Vamping up an Old Team

[coolkidmitch]

I've had this team for a very long time on Shoddy. The team was created when I was organizing my boxes on Diamond and saw some of these pokemon next to each other. After some thought, I realized how well they work together. I have changed it a bit, recently, because I want this team to do better, it's a good team. but I need VERY HARD criticism of this it. It's done well in the past, but it still has problems. So lets break it down.

Team Preview:

Kissu: Blaster
Togekiss @ Leftovers
(252 HP/20 Def/236 Spe)
Relaxed Nature - Serene Grace
* Aura Sphere
* Air Slash
* Encore
* Roost
Thoughts: This has been one of my favorite leads. Togekiss's main job is to force a switch with encore, He is a little fast, so he normally strikes first, encores, and when the opposer switchs out, stirke it out. If he lasts, Aura Sphere to attack and Roost if it is hit hard.

'Magius: Annoyance
Mismagius @ Spell Tag
(4 HP/252 SpA/252 Sp)
Timid Nature - Water Absorb
* Confuse Ray
* Perish Song
* Shadow Ball
* Pain Split
Thoughts: One of my absoulte favorite Pokemon, Mismagius is a wall, but tends to be more of an annoyance than anything else. I used to have Psychic on her, but after I watched a Magius take out my entire team with just Shadow Ball, I had to replace it. So Confuse Ray, Shadow ball, Pain Split if any moves do hit her, and then Destiny Bond if anyone tries to take her out. Shes wonderful. Not to mention almost impossible to outspeed (unless its a known speedster). Her ony issues is Dark, if anything Dark gets close, shes a goner.

Mur: Toxic Spiker
Forretress @ Muscle Band
(252 HP/112 Atk/144 Def)
Relaxed Nature - Sturdy
* Toxic Spokes
* Gyro Ball
* Rapid Spin
* Explosion
Thoughts: I have been debating since I added him on if I wanted Forretress. I know that it's a great Toxic Spiker, and can withstand the hits, but he just doesn't show much more potential than that. Of course he's a great help, but I can't help but wonder if I should change him out for someone different. Maybe a Nidoqueen, but I can't decide, because he does surpise me. But he's giant whole to fire is his huge down fall. He's good, but only for one thing.

Feu Poulet: Hard Hitter
Blaiziken @ Salac Berry
(252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def)
Jolly Nature - Blaze
* Blaze Kick
* Reversal
* Swords Dance
* Substitue
Thoughts: I love this flaming chicken. It covers so much ground, I just changed its move set, It once had Flare Blitz and Sky Uppercut, but I like Reversal and Blaze Kick better, spice things up a bit. But he is a great pokemon. He's very verstile and super strong.

Titan: Wall
Torterra @ Life Orb
(252 HP/20 Def/236 Spe)
Impish Nature - Overgrow
* Earthquake
* Stone Edge
* Substitute
* Wood Hammer
Thoughts: This is one to the bunch. He replaced a Tanglegrowth that was just not getting his job done. Taglegrowth was suppose to be my Dark user, and Payback just wasn't cutting it. Leafstorm rarely hit and I realized I needed a Ground type, so Torterra it is. So far, I'm loving him. Substitute is awesome on him, and Leech Seed makes up for the damage lost by life orb. Earthquake and Wood Hammer are just big hitting moves. He does have a lot of weaknesses, but he does his job and he does it well.

Stella: Coverage
Starmie @ Life Orb
(4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe)
Timid Nature - Natural Cure
* Recover
* Ice Beam
* Thunderbolt
* Surf
Thoughts: Stella is Love. I went with accuray over power, I've lost too many fights because Hydro Pump/Blizzard/Thunder missed. Not only is she strong. I've decided to change out Camo for Recover, thanks again for the advice on her, I like her much better with Recover because she's coming in offensive as opposed to defensive. I might consider switching out Surf with Camo and run her Defensive once I test out this new team, but I like where its going now.

Alright guys, here is your chance to rip it to shreds. I need the help, I am willing to make a lot of changes here. Go for it!

EDIT: Changed out Ev's again with Farasha's suggestion. Changed Stamie, Togekiss and Torterra moves, only a few with the suggestions from C'est Si Bon.

 

[Farasha]

Oh lord, I've fought this team so many times :x

I've already told you how I feel about running Hyper Beam on a competitive team, so I'll leave that alone. Aside from that, your Togekiss looks like pretty standard 'kiss to me. Also Timid nature makes it faster, which would help you on your speed issue.

Your Mismagius annoys the crap out of me with her @#$&% Confuse Ray, but that's the entire point, so good show there. Switching out Psychic in favor of Shadow Ball was an excellent decision - Shadow Ball gives you STAB where Psychic didn't.

Forretress has some issues - you want Relaxed instead of Brave as his nature, especially with what you're using him for. Also, Rapid Spin > Iron Defense - since you aren't running Rapid Spin on your Starmie. Toxic Spikes can ruin this team if it's on your side of the field, so you'll want Forretress to get rid of those.

Changing the moveset on your Blaziken completely changed its strategy. If you want to use it like this, Reversal is the move you're centering around. It needs a Salac Berry instead of Leftovers, since Leftovers kind of defeats the purpose of running Reversal. Brave Bird is good, since it has recoil and can get you down into the territory where Reversal does the most good, and it has the advantage of attacking whereas Substitute and Endure don't. You also want a Jolly nature here.

Impish nature on Torterra.

I see you have finally added T-Bolt to your Starmie like I keep telling you to :3 Surf > Waterfall, otherwise it looks good.

Oh, and all your EVs make me say "huh?" Try looking at the ones Smogon has listed.

 

[coolkidmitch]

Thanks Farasha, especially with the Ev's. And with all the extra changes to Blaizken, its going to make him a great team member. Any other suggestions are more than needed!

 

[Mobile Tsk]

I've had this team for a very long time on Shoddy. The team was created when I was organizing my boxes on Diamond and saw some of these pokemon next to each other. After some thought, I realized how well they work together. I have changed it a bit, recently, because I want this team to do better, it's a good team. but I need VERY HARD criticism of this it. It's done well in the past, but it still has problems. So lets break it down.

Kissu: Blaster
Togekiss @ Leftovers
(252 HP/252 SpA/4 Def)
Relaxed Nature - Serene Grace
* Aura Sphere
* Air Slash
* Encore
* Roost
Hyper Beam is awful. Trade it for something with coverage that still has STAB. Roost is better recovery unless you want to pseudopass, but even then Wish isn't not great as it's only 50% and Togekiss could use loss of Flying type for a turn.

'Magius: Annoyance
Mismagius @ Spell Tag
(100 HP/210 Spe/200 SpA)
Timid Nature - Levitate
* Thunderbolt
* Destiny Bond / Thunder Wave / HP Fighting
* Shadow Ball
* Pain Split / Thunder Wave / HP Fighting

Mismagius is a bad monoattacker. I guess you could still use Destiny Bond or Pain Split, but it's hard to use both correctly with her awful HP and Defense. Come to think of it neither is all that great.

Mur: Toxic Spiker
Forretress @ Muscle Band
(252 HP/112 Atk/144 Def)
Relaxed Nature - Sturdy
* Toxic Spokes
* Gyro Ball
* Rapid Spin
* Explosion
k

Feu Poulet: Hard Hitter
Blaiziken @ Salac Berry
(252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def)
Jolly Nature - Blaze
* Blaze Kick
* Reversal
* Swords Dance
* Substitute
This is decent

Titan: Wall
Torterra @ Life Orb
(212 HP/252 Def/44 Spe)
Impish Nature - Overgrow
* Earthquake
* Leech Seed Stone Edge imo
* Substitute Protect imo
* Wood Hammer
Seems a little bit of a waste of the ability to learn Stone Edge but whatever. The purpose of seeding things (especially when there is a toxic spiker) is to hit the poisons and steels that are unaffected by TSpikes. However, EQ is super effective against both types and will generally hurt anything that doesn't levatate. (Grass/Poisons may not take as much damage but they also don't take anything from Leech Seed or Toxic anyway)

Stella: Coverage
Starmie @ Leftovers
(100 HP/252 Spe/158 SpA)
Timid Nature - Natural Cure
* Camouflage (<---- NO) Camouflage Camouflage Camouflage
* Ice Beam
* Thunderbolt
* Surf
This set makes no sense... Leftovers with an almost entirely offensive set? The purpose of Starmie is to cause immediate damage and then die along with all of the other faceless stars that everyone forgot about. Camouflage appears nowhere on Star's analysis... why? Well, I'm guessing because it doesn't work. Now, you can make Starmie last for a while if you want. But if you're going to do this, making Starmie a normal type, removing Surf STAB, and wasting a turn is not the way to go. Run Recover + Life Orb.

Alright guys, here is your chance to rip it to shreds. I need the help, I am willing to make a lot of changes here. Go for it!

EDIT: I have taken a lot of what Farasha said, into consideration. Most of my Ev's have changed, and there are a few nature and item changes as well. I still need the help, so rip it apart kids!

Your EVs are still all wrong. I don't know where to begin on these so I just won't.

 

[Farasha]

Here, have some EVs:

Togekiss - 252 HP/20 Def/236 Spe (more survivable and faster)
Mismagius - 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe (faster, boosts crapass attack)
Forretress - Those are good
Blaziken - That's good too
Torterra - 252 HP/20 Def/236 Spe (HP helps with Substitute, so does speed)
Starmie - 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe (SPEED SPEED SPEED. SpA helps make up for what you've lost by making Surf non-STAB.)

And when I look at it again, I would def. suggest running Air Slash > Hyper Beam on Togekiss. You can still Encore to force switch and then nail them with Aura Sphere.

I disagree with the above poster about the changes to Mismagius. Confuse Ray works wonders with her set and hax can help with her poor defenses. I would suggest Perish Song > Destiny Bond though. Helps screw with Dark types.

 

[coolkidmitch]

Thank you very much with the EV help! I am still not very good at ev's, obviously lol. C'est si bon, Thank you for the starmie advice, I have just always seen camoflauge as such a great move on her that I've never considered running recover instead, I didn't even think of it taking away her stab. I am going to try out the airslash as well, I always though hyper beam worked well the with the encore switch plan. I'll test it out and see how it works. Mismagius is the only one that I am kinda stuck on, people that have faught her before have seen the damage she can do. I have switched back and forth between destiny bond and perish song, but I can see now why perish song is a better choice. And I like this torterra move set a lot better. Thanks again!

Keep em' coming guys!

 

[Mobile Tsk]

Togekiss - 252 HP / 152 SpA / 104 Spe
Mismagius - 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Forretress - Those are good
Blaziken - 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
Torterra - 252 HP / 252 Atk /4 Spe
Starmie - 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe

Since when was 105 base SpA "crapass"? (Mismagius) It's not supposed to dominate everything, it's supposed to bait things that can kill/hurt it and damage them with Pain Split or Destiny Bond + Attacking moves.

I know Blaziken is a major nitpick but you almost never put the last 4 in Def or SpD unless you've already maxed out HP.

And I have no clue where the EVs for Torterra and Togekiss came from...

 

[coolkidmitch]

Mismagius can be very offensive. I have sweeped teams before using her and her only, and I've had my own teams sweeped by her. Her only issue is dark types, I like where she stands at this point.

Again, still kinda new to the EV's, im going to run a test on this team in a bit to see how it works out with the new changes.

 

[Mobile Tsk]

Mismagius can be very offensive. I have sweeped teams before using her and her only, and I've had my own teams sweeped by her. Her only issue is dark types, I like where she stands at this point.

Again, still kinda new to the EV's, im going to run a test on this team in a bit to see how it works out with the new changes.

The only way to "sweep" with her is essentially Calm Mind... anything that can outsped it or survive it that has a physical attack is pretty much gg for Mismagius. (and there are a good number of things that Mismagius doesn't KO before a CM)

 

[coolkidmitch]

I'll defiantly consider running calm mind on her, I've been told it before but I just dont know what to give up. Her move set is just so set right now in my mind, I've ran this on her since I got her and I just love it. I might take out Perish song and try it. I know Confuse Ray and Pain Split are essentail to her lasting longer.

 

[Mobile Tsk]

I'll defiantly consider running calm mind on her, I've been told it before but I just dont know what to give up. Her move set is just so set right now in my mind, I've ran this on her since I got her and I just love it. I might take out Perish song and try it. I know Confuse Ray and Pain Split are essentail to her lasting longer.

Confuse Ray is a horrible move... Thunder Wave is much better because it lasts even if the victim switches out.

 

[Farasha]

C'est - Togekiss & Torterra's EVs came straight from the Smogon Strategy Dex, and are listed under the exact movesets that he's using. They work.

 

[Mobile Tsk]

C'est - Togekiss & Torterra's EVs came straight from the Smogon Strategy Dex, and are listed under the exact movesets that he's using. They work.

That's odd, because neither of those 'exact sets' are anywhere on Smogon.

 

[coolkidmitch]

oh come on guys, no fighting. The ev's are just fine for me. I'm about to test this out and see how it works ^_^

First issue has been found, a Ninjask with one speed boost, baton passed to a Heatran, sweeped my entire team.

Should I take out Starmie and replace it with a hard hitting water type? I'm thinking Kingdra.

 

[SmashBrony]

Uh....
Excuse me...
BLAZIKEN IS A EAGLE!!!!
Anyways....
I heard that Vaporeon is a good counter for Heatran...

 

[coolkidmitch]

I really wanted to swap out for vapoeron but everytime i run Starmie, she keeps just sweeping everything, kinda ridiculous. But heatran is just a house XD I dunno. I'll have to keep playing and see if there is anything I can do it get rid of it with what i have XD

 

[SmashBrony]

I really wanted to swap out for vapoeron but everytime i run Starmie, she keeps just sweeping everything, kinda ridiculous. But heatran is just a house XD I dunno. I'll have to keep playing and see if there is anything I can do it get rid of it with what i have XD

Counters

Bulky Waters such as Milotic, Suicune, Slowking, Tentacruel, Vaporeon, and Swampert can counter Heatran quite effectively, but Specs boosted Hidden Power Grass and Earth Power can take them down. Suicune is the best of these, as its high defenses allow it to take an Explosion as well as most Special Attacks, it is faster than the defensive Heatran sets, and its Pressure forces Heatran to watch its remaining Fire Blast PP. Gyarados can handle Heatran on occasion, but Stealth Rock, potential burns, and the occasional Hidden Power Electric on Heatran are a nuisance. Porygon2 is an interesting counter. It traces Flash Fire and isn't weak to any other moves. Porygon2 can then paralyze Heatran and wear it down with Thunderbolt, using Recover as necessary. Latias and Kingdra can come in on Heatran and set up unless they switch into a Dragon Pulse.
Blissey is a fairly good counter to Heatran, provided she has some means of hitting it. With the increase in Fire attacks thanks to Scizor, getting a Flash Fire boost is easier, which means Blissey might have to take boosted Fire attacks. Explosion also gets rid of Blissey, but at the cost of Heatran's life. Heatran counters itself as long as it doesn't come into Earth Power. Adamant Choice Scarf Dugtrio can trap and KO Heatran no matter the set, and Magnezone do the same if Heatran is locked into Hidden Power or Dragon Pulse.
Snorlax can come into Heatran with relative impunity thanks to Thick Fat and threaten it back with Earthquake. Hariyama does the same, but uses Fighting attacks instead. Like Blissey, both will fall to Explosion. A Careful Tyranitar can shrug off any hits not boosted by Choice Specs, even Earth Power, which barely 4HKOes.
Most Heatran you face will be Choiced. Take advantage of this when deciding what you will switch in.
Yep, I copied from smogon.

 

[coolkidmitch]

Oh man! Awesome! You rock :D

 

[SmashBrony]

Oh man! Awesome! You rock :D

Of course I rock!
Rock is (in a way) literally my first name!

 

[Waffle-San]

Um.....Why Why why does your Togekiss have a RELAXED nature? What's the point of lowering it's speed especially when you're investing 236 EV's into speed. Go Bold if you want defense, or Timid since you mentioned speed being a nessesity.

Also Torterra is doing nothing for this team, you called Mismagius (who's ability isn't Water Absorb by the way) your wall, but it's not going to be walling much, especially with a purely Sweeper EV set.
You need something to take Sp. Atk, especially common ones like Water, Ice and Electric. I suggest replacing Torterra with Swampert and Forretress with someone like Brongzong. You'll lose your Toxic Spiker but you'll gain some Stabability.

My real biggest suggestion would be to replace Mismagius with one of the Rotom forms and completely omit Torterra for something. Whoever that may be.
Your team can't really switch in and out much, it's all run, gun and sacrifice which isn't going to work against most smart battlers. Unless you can rely on Starmie revenge killing and Blaziken's late game sweeping.

Encore on a lead is magic though and probably the biggest key to any early game success you've had.

There, hope I helped or gave you something to think about, writing these things can be hard when the Pittsburgh-Carolina game is on. :P