VGC '16 Team for Madison, WI

[WingedDragon]

So I would like a honest opinions on this team for this weekends tournament. I feel this is the best team I have ever come up with and hoping to do really well this weekend.


First thing if you take a quick glance at it is a mismatched Trick Room team. This is by design. Groudon the way its set up is suppose to out speed other Groudon. 70% of the time TR wont be in play while I have him on the team. He is commonly tagged with Mawile and Cress if Groudon leading. Max investments in speed and att allow fastest hardest hitting attack possible and does 70% damage on average without helping hand. Mawile just cuts attacks and runs on first turn.


Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch
- Precipice Blades
- Protect


Kang is almost a copy of Groudon except it is normal typing. I have it for extra muscle and the extra hit helps in a pinch. I keep scrappy just in case I run into ghosts such as Gengar. Its general rule is really clean up or disruption with Fake Out. Outta all of my uses it actually is low on the list of how many times I have used it on showdown but when I have it has been quite beneficial. I prefer Return over Double Edge because of recoil and breeding it all over again is just too much of a pain this close to the tournament.


Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Low Kick
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out


Cress is my superstar of the group. Also the one I could tweak with as well. I had previously had like a 50/40/30% in HP/Def/Sp.Def. Finding that there is more of a physical presence in the game I just invested in just defense and HP. This Cres is presently what I own. Now Ive been thinking about a possible Sassy ( I own one of these too) or Relaxed Cres. (I need this one yet). Anyway Cress I commonly have lead with Kyorge to set up Trick Room. A Kyorge Protect and TR and all she wrote on that one. I'll have Cress lead with Groudon as well for helping hand and also take away prankster effect on prankster players. It also does well as a counter TR itself.


Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap


If Kyorge leads its always with Cress. Otherwise its used as a TR clean up. One thing you are probably looking at is why is it level 49? This allows Kyorge to out speed other like lv 50 Kyorge under TR. Even though Water Spout might be the better option. OP has been fairly consistent for me despite not having a gravity boost. Thunder is there so it isn't water locked. Evs could use some tuning I had the 116 in Sp Def to handle other electric attacks but with the more physical metagame. I put that into Def. Should I keep it that way or should I just invest it all into Sp Atk?


Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 49
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect


Mawile is a wild card. Ill have it lead to cut attack and then run unless there is a good match up I think it can take. Its Iron Head hit really well even under -1 in its Mega form. Mawile is a smogon standard given its very frail. I could run it Brave with 0 ivs in spd but it seems comfortable the way it is now and I would like it to have the advantage in non TR over an Amoongus or a slow Porygon2. Its purpose is really coverage against Yvetle and Xerneas.


Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Protect


Thunderous is my lead prankster. It is kind of common for me to lead with it to counter Smeargle or just to make a hard impact on an opponent. Grass knot is great against Groudon usually taking almost 50% with Life Orb. I choose T-bolt over Thunder because Thundurus and Kyorge don't normally met in the same spot at the same time.




Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Taunt


THIS ISNT ON MY TEAM but I did switch out this one for Thundurus


At the time I needed a Prankster that can out speed Prank everyone. So I choose Cott. Taunting Smeargle. Giving a speed boost to Groudon and Moonblast so it wouldn't become taunt bait. a friend suggested running with Mawile with this team has worked well, but it runs into me having a fire problem. I do miss the speed boost from Tailwind but I feel like I am better with Thundurus.


I would like to know if anyone would agree or disagree with this. Also I could take Focus Sash and give it to Thundurus if its believed to be a good idea.


Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Moonblast
- Protect


Anyone who is reading this thank you for reading it and appreciate any input everyone has on how to improve this. Thanks.

 

[ddrox13]

Ohhh, Wisconsin. More places that most of the country associates with "the middle of nowhere". I hear it's nice tho.

Dual Primals isn't always the best route from what I have seen. Their weathers have a tendency to counteract each other, negating one of the primary reasons to use them. You also don't have any other 'mons that can use either weather to their advantage.

In a similar Vein, you are also running Dual Megas. This often works out, as long as one of them is named Rayquaza. Neither Mawile nor Kanga are really any good without their mega stone, so showing either (i.e. leading with Mawile to intimidate) almost instantly means that you aren't using the other.

I can't speak to TR in Doubles as I don't use it, but in singles having only 1 TR setter makes you setup bait. Adding another might not be the worst idea.

Can't really give you any hard suggestions (I despise TR), but I hope you can come up with a good team with this food for thought.

 

[RawrMonkey]

So I would like a honest opinions on this team for this weekends tournament. I feel this is the best team I have ever come up with and hoping to do really well this weekend.


First thing if you take a quick glance at it is a mismatched Trick Room team. This is by design. Groudon the way its set up is suppose to out speed other Groudon. 70% of the time TR wont be in play while I have him on the team. He is commonly tagged with Mawile and Cress if Groudon leading. Max investments in speed and att allow fastest hardest hitting attack possible and does 70% damage on average without helping hand. Mawile just cuts attacks and runs on first turn.


Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch
- Precipice Blades
- Protect


Kang is almost a copy of Groudon except it is normal typing. I have it for extra muscle and the extra hit helps in a pinch. I keep scrappy just in case I run into ghosts such as Gengar. Its general rule is really clean up or disruption with Fake Out. Outta all of my uses it actually is low on the list of how many times I have used it on showdown but when I have it has been quite beneficial. I prefer Return over Double Edge because of recoil and breeding it all over again is just too much of a pain this close to the tournament.


Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Low Kick
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out


Cress is my superstar of the group. Also the one I could tweak with as well. I had previously had like a 50/40/30% in HP/Def/Sp.Def. Finding that there is more of a physical presence in the game I just invested in just defense and HP. This Cres is presently what I own. Now Ive been thinking about a possible Sassy ( I own one of these too) or Relaxed Cres. (I need this one yet). Anyway Cress I commonly have lead with Kyorge to set up Trick Room. A Kyorge Protect and TR and all she wrote on that one. I'll have Cress lead with Groudon as well for helping hand and also take away prankster effect on prankster players. It also does well as a counter TR itself.


Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap


If Kyorge leads its always with Cress. Otherwise its used as a TR clean up. One thing you are probably looking at is why is it level 49? This allows Kyorge to out speed other like lv 50 Kyorge under TR. Even though Water Spout might be the better option. OP has been fairly consistent for me despite not having a gravity boost. Thunder is there so it isn't water locked. Evs could use some tuning I had the 116 in Sp Def to handle other electric attacks but with the more physical metagame. I put that into Def. Should I keep it that way or should I just invest it all into Sp Atk?


Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 49
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect


Mawile is a wild card. Ill have it lead to cut attack and then run unless there is a good match up I think it can take. Its Iron Head hit really well even under -1 in its Mega form. Mawile is a smogon standard given its very frail. I could run it Brave with 0 ivs in spd but it seems comfortable the way it is now and I would like it to have the advantage in non TR over an Amoongus or a slow Porygon2. Its purpose is really coverage against Yvetle and Xerneas.


Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Protect


Thunderous is my lead prankster. It is kind of common for me to lead with it to counter Smeargle or just to make a hard impact on an opponent. Grass knot is great against Groudon usually taking almost 50% with Life Orb. I choose T-bolt over Thunder because Thundurus and Kyorge don't normally met in the same spot at the same time.




Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Taunt


THIS ISNT ON MY TEAM but I did switch out this one for Thundurus


At the time I needed a Prankster that can out speed Prank everyone. So I choose Cott. Taunting Smeargle. Giving a speed boost to Groudon and Moonblast so it wouldn't become taunt bait. a friend suggested running with Mawile with this team has worked well, but it runs into me having a fire problem. I do miss the speed boost from Tailwind but I feel like I am better with Thundurus.


I would like to know if anyone would agree or disagree with this. Also I could take Focus Sash and give it to Thundurus if its believed to be a good idea.


Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Moonblast
- Protect


Anyone who is reading this thank you for reading it and appreciate any input everyone has on how to improve this. Thanks.

Looks like a solid team from a glance, don't notice anything specifically wrong with it without testing it out myself first. I can still offer some suggestions though.

Have you considered running adamant natures on Groudon and Kang with some bulk? This gives you a little bit more room to work with as you're able to be in and out of trick room. I know some people who did this, they went with a more offensive-bulky approach while running a TR cress in the case they figured out their opponent was running max speed.

For Thundurus vs Whimsicott, imo I believe Thundurus is just more viable and consistent. You might want to try out a bulky Thundurus, but since you're already using sitrus berry an offensive one is fine as well.

You did lose part of your speed control when you switched out Whimsicott , but have you tried using thunder wave on Thundurus? You give good reason for your move set already so it would be hard to choose which move to replace but it would either be grass knot or hidden power if you choose to do so.

Ohhh, Wisconsin. More places that most of the country associates with "the middle of nowhere". I hear it's nice tho.

Dual Primals isn't always the best route from what I have seen. Their weathers have a tendency to counteract each other, negating one of the primary reasons to use them. You also don't have any other 'mons that can use either weather to their advantage.

In a similar Vein, you are also running Dual Megas. This often works out, as long as one of them is named Rayquaza. Neither Mawile nor Kanga are really any good without their mega stone, so showing either (i.e. leading with Mawile to intimidate) almost instantly means that you aren't using the other.

I can't speak to TR in Doubles as I don't use it, but in singles having only 1 TR setter makes you setup bait. Adding another might not be the worst idea.

Can't really give you any hard suggestions (I despise TR), but I hope you can come up with a good team with this food for thought.

I feel like what I'm about to say about this post could also help you out WingedDragon.

While at first dual primals doesn't seem very viable and counter-intuitive, it has seen much success in VGC16 winning Anaheim regionals (best example I can remember).

Your megas argument is half invalid since Mega Kang and Mega Salamence are extremely popular choices for dual megas, but yes it does instantly mean you didn't bring the other unless you're using dual megas with Rayquaza.

While I won't completely disagree with you on regarding Trick Room, VGC16 is fast paced and there is little room for team building. One trick room setter for this team is enough since it's not heavily reliant on it.

 

[WingedDragon]

Looks like a solid team from a glance, don't notice anything specifically wrong with it without testing it out myself first. I can still offer some suggestions though.

Have you considered running adamant natures on Groudon and Kang with some bulk? This gives you a little bit more room to work with as you're able to be in and out of trick room. I know some people who did this, they went with a more offensive-bulky approach while running a TR cress in the case they figured out their opponent was running max speed.

For Thundurus vs Whimsicott, imo I believe Thundurus is just more viable and consistent. You might want to try out a bulky Thundurus, but since you're already using sitrus berry an offensive one is fine as well.

You did lose part of your speed control when you switched out Whimsicott , but have you tried using thunder wave on Thundurus? You give good reason for your move set already so it would be hard to choose which move to replace but it would either be grass knot or hidden power if you choose to do so.

I feel like T-wave would be counter productive under this team. If I land T-wave while under TR. I have to bank on that 50% chance that the opponent will lose a turn. If I do change a move it would be HP Ice. With Kyorge and Cress having Ice Beam. Ice would be kind of silly to keep. Especially since Grass knot takes Groudon to around 50% in one hit.