what are the ebst team for 2vs2 battling?

[Composer of Requiems]

So what can you do against an opponent who will always hit you first, unless your name is electrode or ninjask (since Deoxys is banned). Sure you can always use quick attack, mach punch or extremespeed, but as if that can stop Aerodactyl.

There's always the 50/50% risk of Jolteon hitting Aerodactyl first... that's the best you can do already.

Hmm? You pile up your defences to take at least 2 hits, and status him. Or you counter/mirror coat. Or if you really want to go back to basics, take something faster. It's all about who's stratergy is more effective on the other guy.

 

[Frostweaver]

Hmm? You pile up your defences to take at least 2 hits, and status him. Or you counter/mirror coat. Or if you really want to go back to basics, take something faster. It's all about who's stratergy is more effective on the other guy.

Oh? Someone up to a debate I'm guessing?

"Pile up your defenses."

So have fun trying to save yourself from a 300+ attack power + STAB + Rock slide's base 75 power + 30% flinch + helping hand 1 level attack boost + choice band's 1 level attack boost... it's the equilvalent to 600+ attack power using a STAB Rock slide against both of your Pokemon at the same time. Seriously, have "fun" blocking that. So much for defenses... If rock slide doesn't work, go with earthquake. If Flygon is present, double edge it to get rid of Flygon at all cost (for Flygon is another "God" of 2vs2).

"Try counter/mirror coat."

Mirror coat doesn't even work against Aerodactyl, and counter certainly works! That is, if you can survive the hit for counter.

"Take something faster."

Check your speed list, and find Aerodactyl 3rd on the list (excluding Deoxys, who's an ubar anyway). Your only 2 alternatives to outspeed Aerodactyl is Ninjask (have fun using Ninjask in 2vs2... where the sub trick works no more, and Jumpluff can always have fun using encore/sleep powder to stop you from pulling off baton pass). The other choice is Electrode, which is the only valid counter to Aerodactyl, but you know that they're one Pokemon down as well from the start, seeing that Electrode can do nothing BUT taking down Crobat and Aerodactyl. Or, you can always take out Aerodactyl and send in something else to take in the easily expected thunderbolts if you see the opponent having an Electrode.

 

[BigBoss]

I like to use Skamory and Blissey. It seems to be a very good combo.

 

[kirby00]

wut is the combo w/ jumpluff and aero? why do blissey/skarmory work well together?

 

[Frostweaver]

Skarmbliss for 2vs2 is DA BOMB, but as in, it's crappy. They can only tank one thing really well, and stinks at the other, so what's the point? As long as one of your opponent's Pokemon can mix sweep, you're dead. Plus these 2 tankers cannot hold out that long under focus fire, and they even lack offensive power, so the opponent can actually use buff-ups in a 2vs2 game. It really won't work... all tankers, unless they can tank both types of attack, are immediately useless in a 2vs2 really...

The jumpluff/aerodactyl combo is really simple. It's just an Aerodactyl with choice band and the usual 1vs1 setup, together with a Jumpluff who has Helping Hand. That's all... the reason why this works well is because Jumpluff can boost aerodactyl's power, along with earthquake immunity + surf resistance. Jumpluff can also hurl out sleep powder and encore to help out as well.

It's not the easiest strategy to defeat considering that Aerodactyl almost always strike first, and helping hand will always strike first due to the nature of the attack. And the fact that most Pokemon got no defense in 2vs2 makes this strategy even stronger. The only few Pokemon that can survive this is Claydol, Milotic, Suicune, Flygon and Dusclops. Flygon dies to choice band + helping hand + double edge though, and all the others will be severely weakened after that first rock slide/earthquake... low enough for whatever to come out next to finish the job. The only true counter is Claydol, who will survive whatever hurled out against it with a very little hp left, and then setup reflect to pseudopass... currently, I can't think of anything else but Milotic/Flygon + Gengar to beat this strategy myself...

 

[kirby00]

i thinking groduon and charizard could beat this set... charizard could burn down jumpluff, while groudon uses brick break on aerodactyl... charziard my die easily but groudon is only weak to aerial ace from aerodactyl, and bulk-up will help let it last longer. dont say no to groudon b/c its uber b/c aerodactly is legendary to (or ancient) and it is ubar in its own way

 

[Frostweaver]

um... it's time to compare the stats difference, and how Groudon is approximately 300 points higher than Aerodactyl.

Defeating "ubar" + BL with the same setup:

-rock slide from aerodactyl, automatic death for Charizard. Sleep powder on Groudon from Jumpluff. Jumpluff goes first due to free sunny day, so Groudon will always be out like a light. Aerodacty strikes 2nd instead then. Groudon can also get possibly flinched by rock slide. If Groudon has a lum berry or chesto to heal off sleep, then that means it dies next turn to Jumpluff and 2nd barrage of sleep powder... unless hax is on your side.

And congratulation to be the first person in the universe to try to say that Groudon's no ubar while Aerodactyl is one.

 

[kirby00]

not if both r holding quickclaw

 

[Demonion]

yeah sure and what if quick claw doesnt work that turn?

 

[Composer of Requiems]

Oh? Someone up to a debate I'm guessing?

"Pile up your defenses."

So have fun trying to save yourself from a 300+ attack power + STAB + Rock slide's base 75 power + 30% flinch + helping hand 1 level attack boost + choice band's 1 level attack boost... it's the equilvalent to 600+ attack power using a STAB Rock slide against both of your Pokemon at the same time. Seriously, have "fun" blocking that. So much for defenses... If rock slide doesn't work, go with earthquake. If Flygon is present, double edge it to get rid of Flygon at all cost (for Flygon is another "God" of 2vs2).

"Try counter/mirror coat."

Mirror coat doesn't even work against Aerodactyl, and counter certainly works! That is, if you can survive the hit for counter.

"Take something faster."

Check your speed list, and find Aerodactyl 3rd on the list (excluding Deoxys, who's an ubar anyway). Your only 2 alternatives to outspeed Aerodactyl is Ninjask (have fun using Ninjask in 2vs2... where the sub trick works no more, and Jumpluff can always have fun using encore/sleep powder to stop you from pulling off baton pass). The other choice is Electrode, which is the only valid counter to Aerodactyl, but you know that they're one Pokemon down as well from the start, seeing that Electrode can do nothing BUT taking down Crobat and Aerodactyl. Or, you can always take out Aerodactyl and send in something else to take in the easily expected thunderbolts if you see the opponent having an Electrode.

Doesn't Choice Band *1.5?
I'm not trying to argue, but I just don't see why you hate 2v2 so much.
Rock Slide, sure, you can do a lot of damage with that. I tried that for fun before. But, admittedly, there's also accuracy; it's a low chance, but its still a chance. Plus, why doesn't every single player use that stratergy then? What about Pokemon with resistance to rock? I'm quite sure that there are Pokemon with high defence that are resistant to rock. Wouldn't these be able to withstand at least one hit and get a hit in?
You say, the sub trick doesn't with with Ninjask anyway in 2v2. But, how would you counter it? Using attacks that hit more than once, using both Pokemon to hit the Ninjask, using a Jumpluff to encore the ninjask? But if you do that, then Aerodactyl wouldn't have the helping hand boost. Earthquake, how about Rocks with leviatate?
Is the only reason why you don't like 2v2 because there are more powerful stratergies in 2v2 battling?

 

[Mana Lugia]

is it just me or did you guys forget RS is a hit both attack and thus weakens power on 2v2? Well, just a thought.

Why don't every trainer use that strat? Because there are a lot of trainers out there who
a) Haven't reached that level yet, as in ppl who argue that these things aren't hard to beat at all
b) prefer to not go standard, which is boring as hell

 

[Frostweaver]

Doesn't Choice Band *1.5?
I'm not trying to argue, but I just don't see why you hate 2v2 so much.
Rock Slide, sure, you can do a lot of damage with that. I tried that for fun before. But, admittedly, there's also accuracy; it's a low chance, but its still a chance. Plus, why doesn't every single player use that stratergy then? What about Pokemon with resistance to rock? I'm quite sure that there are Pokemon with high defence that are resistant to rock. Wouldn't these be able to withstand at least one hit and get a hit in?
You say, the sub trick doesn't with with Ninjask anyway in 2v2. But, how would you counter it? Using attacks that hit more than once, using both Pokemon to hit the Ninjask, using a Jumpluff to encore the ninjask? But if you do that, then Aerodactyl wouldn't have the helping hand boost. Earthquake, how about Rocks with leviatate?
Is the only reason why you don't like 2v2 because there are more powerful stratergies in 2v2 battling?

2vs2 is completely to be hated, because

a) usable ones becomes OU immediatley, and all BL+UU becomes NU immediately. There's probably just 20 usable 2vs2 Pokemon in total who can do stuff more than hit once than die next turn

b) no sense of defense, as that's impossible and cannot exist.

c) no buff ups, because if you spend the time to buff up, you die

d) more Groudon/Kyogre ownage crap, as if Ky00ber didn't own enough in 1vs1 world

e) severe lack of strategies, as there's only so much you can do. You really can't escape from using helping hand, tri-absorbion, hit-all attacks, skill swap, levitate and protect+earthquake/explosion. Nothing out of this box, while in 1vs1 you can go into a lot more original ideas.


Pokemon resistance to rock slide and earthquake: flygon and claydol, and they're addressed already. All the others will be weak/normal to either one. There are no others. You think that I haven't thought about all those who are resistant to rock slide/earthquake alrady?

Relying on hax misses without double team/minimize = not a valid argument... that's as bad as saying "I will own you with my sheer cold team!"

And no one ever dares to use Ninjask in 2vs2... it's suicidal. Ninjask dies in one hit, and can't even pull off the traditional baton pass if you're being hit so easily (the new pokemon receving the pass need to resist possibly 2 moves and survive, and Ninjask's survivability is a big problem already.) Surely, the scenario can be...

-Ninjask goes first, sets up sub
-Aerodactyl uses rock slide, and sub takes the hit but breaks

Now Jumpluff can do either...

a) encore so you keep subbing and never get to pass anything
b) sleep powder so you're just gone.

Now you can say that Aero won't get the helping hand boost anymore. That will depend on the opponent. If I see a Flygon+Ninjask combo, then darn right immediately pull out Vappy-Lapras dual-healing combo. Aero-pluff isn't played with a formula like how you'll play Butterfree in 1vs1... it can flex a lot itself.

And like what Mana said... using OU is just lame. I tried UU 2vs2 team, and it doesn't work... most UU lacks defense completely besides Tangela, Gligar and Kangaskan... it doesn't leave you with much that's desirable. And with all those mass Jolts/Aero/Scepty/Wobby+Gengar combo/other fast-OU-junk out there, UU team cannot possibly withstand 2 turns and live... it just can't.

 

[kirby00]

u 4got solrock, and lunatone for reistance to earthquake, and rockslide. also they made a good team with psychic, sunny day, solar beam, moonlight, and the other does the psyical sweep with rockslide, earthquake, toxic, cosmic power both w/ leftovers for both, or petalya berry for luna tone.

 

[Composer of Requiems]

2vs2 is completely to be hated, because

a) usable ones becomes OU immediatley, and all BL+UU becomes NU immediately. There's probably just 20 usable 2vs2 Pokemon in total who can do stuff more than hit once than die next turn

b) no sense of defense, as that's impossible and cannot exist.

c) no buff ups, because if you spend the time to buff up, you die

d) more Groudon/Kyogre ownage crap, as if Ky00ber didn't own enough in 1vs1 world

e) severe lack of strategies, as there's only so much you can do. You really can't escape from using helping hand, tri-absorbion, hit-all attacks, skill swap, levitate and protect+earthquake/explosion. Nothing out of this box, while in 1vs1 you can go into a lot more original ideas.


Pokemon resistance to rock slide and earthquake: flygon and claydol, and they're addressed already. All the others will be weak/normal to either one. There are no others. You think that I haven't thought about all those who are resistant to rock slide/earthquake alrady?

Relying on hax misses without double team/minimize = not a valid argument... that's as bad as saying "I will own you with my sheer cold team!"

And no one ever dares to use Ninjask in 2vs2... it's suicidal. Ninjask dies in one hit, and can't even pull off the traditional baton pass if you're being hit so easily (the new pokemon receving the pass need to resist possibly 2 moves and survive, and Ninjask's survivability is a big problem already.) Surely, the scenario can be...

-Ninjask goes first, sets up sub
-Aerodactyl uses rock slide, and sub takes the hit but breaks

Now Jumpluff can do either...

a) encore so you keep subbing and never get to pass anything
b) sleep powder so you're just gone.

Now you can say that Aero won't get the helping hand boost anymore. That will depend on the opponent. If I see a Flygon+Ninjask combo, then darn right immediately pull out Vappy-Lapras dual-healing combo. Aero-pluff isn't played with a formula like how you'll play Butterfree in 1vs1... it can flex a lot itself.

And like what Mana said... using OU is just lame. I tried UU 2vs2 team, and it doesn't work... most UU lacks defense completely besides Tangela, Gligar and Kangaskan... it doesn't leave you with much that's desirable. And with all those mass Jolts/Aero/Scepty/Wobby+Gengar combo/other fast-OU-junk out there, UU team cannot possibly withstand 2 turns and live... it just can't.

So you hate 2v2 because of the great amount of overused Pokemon? I accept that those stratergies are pretty much unbeatable... but I really don't understand why I don't see that many people using uverused teams that much. The whole point of Pokemon is to have fun coming up with more creative stratergies that doesn't always make use of overused Pokemon. At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Frostweaver]

u 4got solrock, and lunatone for reistance to earthquake, and rockslide. also they made a good team with psychic, sunny day, solar beam, moonlight, and the other does the psyical sweep with rockslide, earthquake, toxic, cosmic power both w/ leftovers for both, or petalya berry for luna tone.

Solrock and Lunatone = do not exist. Mega NU Pokemon that's pretty much never used unless it's a all rock theme team, all psychic team or alphabet teams. And sadly, even Lunatone using ice beam will take 2 turns to knock out Aerodactyl, which is seriously sad... it's as bad as Clefable, just without the superior special sponging power. Solrock is physical and can use rock slide too for neutral damage I suppose, but again, Solrock/Lunatone will lose either one because of Jumpluff, and one of them alone will not be enough to hunt down Aerodactyl. If S.Clause is off, then the strategy remains superior because Jumpluff can powder them both.

As for Composer of Requiems, it's the fact that non OU Pokemon got so high stats that the UUs cannot stand a chance even if you got a powerful strategy. The stats are just overwhelming, and usually they got a much more flexible moveset in comparison to the UUs. To most people, it's about winning and scoring those 98% win on the netbattle record card most of the time.

 

[kirby00]

k have arcanine, and jolteon. Jolteon will use t-wave/bolt on aerodactyl. arcanine can use extreme speed on jumpluff while holding choice band. and btw for the other 1 with the rockslide only doing nuetral damage... jumpluff will probabyl die from the rock slide due to 2x plus the stab from it being part rock...

 

[Frostweaver]

And... Solrock is suppose to be faster than Jumpluff to knock it out o.o;

As for your Arcanine/Jolteon statement, I've argued that long time ago... if you're using Jolteon, it's going to be a 50/50% hax rate for who kills who, because their speed is exactly identical so it'll be up to luck. Whoever goes first, wins the entire round. Earthquake OHKOs both arcanine and Jolteon, while Jolteon will knock out Aerodactyl, which means end of Jumpluff as well.

Of course, then we get to the switching part, where I start abusing Lapras/Vappy strat ^^ Thunderbolt all you want, when I can hydro myself to heal myself (with wish abuse as well), and Vappy/Lapras are both superior special tanks... depending on who's the 5th/6th member, sometimes it's Lanturn instead of Lapras though. So it all depends...

We're just theory crafting right now, but if you really want to try it, we can always netbattle it out 2vs2... eww I rusted on 2vs2 so badly though.

 

[kirby00]

i saw crobat as well. it can either 1hko with sludgebomb on jump or shadow ball w/ choice on aero. it may go second but wil a few evs or a fooling using speed nature, its bound to go faster. crobat has 1hko def but never count out speed/attack power. and w/o aero jump is history. i would def attach bright powder/chesto/lum berry to cro. that way w/ alrdy low accuracy attacks (sleep and rock) and immunity to toxic or ground types it will def stand a chance

 

[Mana Lugia]

Out of curiosity, why didn't anyone mention that Lunatone and Solrock DO NOT RESIST ROCK SLIDE?

Rock does not resist rock, seriously.

On another note: Crobat is a weaker Aerodactyl with a diff STAB move. WEaker as defined as less max attack.

Also, Composer, I believe Frosty is not a fan of 2v2 because the overused, already with their advantages over the UUs, gain an even bigger one because they can smackdown on the UU twice in 1 turn, making any sort of strat almost impossible to pull off. On the off chance you can pull off an UU strategy, what's it going to do since the other OUs are so much more powerful, both stat wise usually and offensive wise. And Frosty is an UU guy as he is even back in 1v1, so 2v2 is definately not his cup of tea.

 

[Frostweaver]

i saw crobat as well. it can either 1hko with sludgebomb on jump or shadow ball w/ choice on aero. it may go second but wil a few evs or a fooling using speed nature, its bound to go faster. crobat has 1hko def but never count out speed/attack power. and w/o aero jump is history. i would def attach bright powder/chesto/lum berry to cro. that way w/ alrdy low accuracy attacks (sleep and rock) and immunity to toxic or ground types it will def stand a chance

lol... don't worry. Already got a new strategy that replaces Jumpluff, all thanks to Emerald ^_^ Even more OU and harder to beat already...

*goes to start a 2vs2 RMT*