What are the odds?

[jstaylor62]

So I've been seriously harvesting a fairly high volume Machop nest recently. I already had one Machamp with Bullet Punch/Cross Cut and managed to evolve a second one. Now I have more than enough candies for a third Machamp, but don't want to be disappointed if I get something lame like Submission.

 

[VisualJae]

Luck of the draw. Movesets are determined upon evolution. Extensive studies have already been done on potential factors, but none have been found to date.

 

[jstaylor62]

Well, I was feeling lucky and decided to evolve ... Karate Chop/Cross Chop as the moveset! I need to go and buy some lottery tickets ;-)

 

[Neltharion83]

I play poker, odds can be cruel.

 

[tjumper78]

3 machamps here. 96, 98, 98%.
2 with submission, 1 with stone edge which is not too bad but still...

the same with alakazam. i evolved 3 including a 100% iv, and i got none with psycho cut and/or psychic.

 

[ichiDad]

Submission is the best move for a defender. The animation is confusing for submission, making it hard to dodge. Doesn't your pokemon disappear, as I recall?

 

[ichiDad]

I have a 98% Magikarp, what do you bet if I evolve it will get Twister. Twister is a lame move because it is poor for offense and defense. Plus 400 Magikarp candies are not easy to accumulate around here. Only a 1/3 chance, but it is sad when it happens to the best.

 

[VisualJae]

I have a 98% Magikarp, what do you bet if I evolve it will get Twister. Twister is a lame move because it is poor for offense and defense. Plus 400 Magikarp candies are not easy to accumulate around here. Only a 1/3 chance, but it is sad when it happens to the best.

Twister is actually not that bad.

More and more people are using Twister Gyarados in Gyms because it's annoying to deal with as an attacker. Twister damage adds up if you don't dodge and are used frequently enough by the AI due to its lower energy cost.

 

[ichiDad]

Twister is actually not that bad.

More and more people are using Twister Gyarados in Gyms because it's annoying to deal with as an attacker. Twister damage adds up if you don't dodge and are used frequently enough by the AI due to its lower energy cost.

That's good news! Only 43 more candies needed to evolve my 98% Magikarp!

 

[Shitik]

I got 1 and luckily I got it with Submission... It's all up to chance.

 

[Neltharion83]

Twister is actually not that bad.

More and more people are using Twister Gyarados in Gyms because it's annoying to deal with as an attacker. Twister damage adds up if you don't dodge and are used frequently enough by the AI due to its lower energy cost.

I disagree, i think people put them in gyms because they are worthless as attackers but have very high CP.

To defeat a twister gyarados, you do not need to dodge, you can ignore the damage. It feels like stepping on a bug.

If you are under the impression that its good because its difficult to dodge, you are deluding yourself because you forget that the damage is so low that dodging is not even required.

 

[VisualJae]

I disagree, i think people put them in gyms because they are worthless as attackers but have very high CP.

To defeat a twister gyarados, you do not need to dodge, you can ignore the damage. It feels like stepping on a bug.

If you are under the impression that its good because its difficult to dodge, you are deluding yourself because you forget that the damage is so low that dodging is not even required.

Uhhh, dodge damage is 25% of the base power of any individual attack, meaning taking on a full Twister (25 damage) is greater than dodge damage from Dragon Pulse (~16 damage) and a little less than dodge damage from Hydro Pump (also 25 damage + STAB).

...Unless you stand there taking full Hydro Pump and Dragon Pulse damage anyway, because then yes, Twister deals low damage.

EDIT: a tad more damage from Hydro Pump due to STAB, but a Gyarados under AI should not be able to push out more than one Hydro Pump per battle.

 

[Neltharion83]

Uhhh, dodge damage is 25% of the base power of any individual attack, meaning taking on a full Twister (25 damage) is greater than dodge damage from Dragon Pulse (~16 damage) and a little less than dodge damage from Hydro Pump (also 25 damage + STAB).

...Unless you stand there taking full Hydro Pump and Dragon Pulse damage anyway, because then yes, Twister deals low damage.

EDIT: a tad more damage from Hydro Pump due to STAB, but a Gyarados under AI should not be able to push out more than one Hydro Pump per battle.

I dodge attacks like hydro pump or dragon pulse, but with twister, that one comes so often that you would be dodging all the time, so i choose to ignore twister, get a much faster battle, and my pokemon survives for sure anyway.

So when i meet a twister gyarados, its an easy battle, no need to worry about anything. And that is the exact opposite of the definition of a good gym defender. That, in my mind, absolutely proves that a twister gyarados is a really really shitty gym defender.

For example, i have a jolteon that can kill any gyarados really quick, but jolteon is fragile, i have to dodoge the big charge moves or the jolteon is toast. With twister its smooth sailing, i see it has twister and victory is a certainty.

The tier lists are being too generous, rating twister gyarados as just a B defender. I would rate it D or lower, its trash.

 

[VisualJae]

That still doesn't change the fact that you're taking more damage by letting Twister hit you compared to dodging Dragon Pulse, even moreso considering a Gyarados cannot use Dragon Pulse more than 2-3 times per battle, but can use 4-5 Twisters.

Gyarados is a poor defender, there's no arguing that. That has nothing to do with the original point, where I'm simply saying getting Twister on a Gyarados still has its uses. You're straight up wrong when arguing that Twister has no merit on a defensive Gyarados. In a realistic setting, after considering how an experienced player will dodge attacks, ignoring Twister causes more problems for your attacking Pokémon than dodging the very few Dragon Pulse and Hydro Pump coming your way. It's basic damage calculations.

Same reason why many higher level Gyms are seeing more Seed Bomb Exeggutor over Solar Beam, and more Water Pulse Vaporeon over Hydro Pump, at least in the most contentious spots I see daily.