What were the low points in the Pokémon anime?

[GymLeaderMisty]

I think after Johto started, the show enter a funk with lots of filler episodes. (I do not think they are worth keeping on my hard drive), but when Ash entered Ecruteak City to face Morty, the show started getting better, and the most of the episodes between 250-280 were very good.

I just gave up on the series a few episodes after Team Rocket released their Pokémon. I suppose some people rolled their eyes at May and Max and the Pokémon contests. Thus, I think people will idenity Hoenn as a low point. I didn't see the Evergrande Tournament arc, but I read about it on Bulbapedia. Was it good though.

I do concede with posters from other threads that the show has experienced a rebound in generation four. By then, I didn't keep up with the anime, and I could name on the starter Pokémon in the Sinnoh region (I can name all of them now.) I contribute this Paul's character. He is reviled, but you are supposed to revile him. I am missing a lot from that generation, and I should try to catch up.

 

[DonRoyale]

In addition to Johto just sucking horribly (in my opinion, the only episodes that really didn't fail were the Whirl Islands arc, the battles against Morty and Clair, and the Silver Conference. Larvitar would count if Ash had actually obtained it.), and Hoenn not resonating well with fans (Misty leaving, the introduction of Contests, May and Max, Team Rocket releasing Weezing and Arbok, etc.), there's all the releases that just don't make sense.

Let's name them off, shall we?:

-Butterfree. We all loved it to death, and all of a sudden a random episode comes by where it suddenly wants to fornicate with this pink Butterfree and then it's released.
-Vulpix. Most people regard it as Brock's best Pokemon, simply because at the time, it was the only Pokemon we saw of his on a regular basis. (Zubat and Onix were virtually nonexistant, and Geodude was hardly used, either) It wasn't his, yeah, but still, it would've been really cool if he were allowed to keep it. :|
-To a lesser extent, Primeape. I really liked the idea of him having one, seeing as it gave his team some new personality to play with. But just two (if I remember correctly) episodes later, it was given to some guy for training.
-Pidgeot. It takes the damn bird over 100 episodes to evolve, and when it does, you leave it? You said you were gonna come back for it, and you still haven't (yet you remember making the promise in the goddamn first place >_>)
-Lapras. One of Ash's absolute best, but justified in that it got lost from its family and was a necessary release. Still...
-Charizard. One the fanboys still cry about to this day, it's a release that kinda made the most sense, to me, at least. They couldn't have amped the Gym Leaders' Pokemon to match Charizard; they tried with Falkner and the results were...less than stellar. (He's probably more powerful than most of the other Gym Leaders in Johto, lol >_>)
-Squirtle and Bulbasaur. Less necessary releases, I guess these were just to make room for new Pokemon. Besides, in important battles, at minimum, Bulbasaur always manages to show up. :|
-Togetic. That one was a tear-jerker for sure, but again, it was along the lines of Pidgeot's release; a true WTF moment. Togetic now evolves; the writers are probably pissed right off about that one. :|
-Ambipom. Probably the most pointless release in the entire series. I mean seriously, PING-PONG?!

Spoiler:

-And as of today, we have the release of Gliscor in DP154...The release much follows the style of Ash's original three starters, but it makes the least sense in terms of the fact that Gliscor has been in Ash's party for the least amount of time. I'll explain more when I actually get to watch DP154.

Misty leaving is a great example as well, since May and Dawn have no chance in hell of coming anywhere close to resonating as well with fans as Misty did. :|

 

[Vernikova]

How the hell does anyone count Hoenn as a low point? If anything, it's a high point because the writers expirimented with different ideas that impact the series today.

Misty leaving is a great example as well, since May and Dawn have no chance in hell of coming anywhere close to resonating as well with fans as Misty did. :|

Oh right, those out of demographic fans that the writers don't care for. **** yeah, these new kids love Misty so much more than May or Dawn.

 

[GymLeaderMisty]

It takes the damn bird over 100 episodes to evolve, and when it does, you leave it? You said you were gonna come back for it, and you still haven't (yet you remember making the promise in the goddamn first place >_>)

No it didn't... Ash caught it in the third episode, and he released in episode 81.

How come Pidgeot cannot just go back to Professor Oak's lab and just wait for Ash. Pidgeot has good eyes so he could just fly high to see the view and stop at his lab. However, I do know where Ash released him. If it is within a few miles or if Pidgeot has a basic knowledge of the region's geographic, Pidgeot could probably find Oak's lab.

 

[DonRoyale]

I made a shot in the dark with that number; so inevitably, I was going to end up being wrong. But it was a part of his team for the entire of Kanto...

 

[GlitchCity]

for one when they changed the voice actors, number 2 i did miss misty but may was alright. Oh when pikachu lost to garys eevee. Somebody got a little too cocky and guess what happens, he loses!

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

How the hell does anyone count Hoenn as a low point? If anything, it's a high point because the writers expirimented with different ideas that impact the series today.

How should you know? I thought you didn't even watch much of AG (since whenever I mentioned the Gym battles in that series, you say that you haven't watched much of AG).

Oh right, those out of demographic fans that the writers don't care for. **** yeah, these new kids love Misty so much more than May or Dawn.

Umm... actually, she would be loved by the new kids so much more than May and Dawn, going by what several college-level researchers discovered.

I mean, with Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokemon, she was identified as being a distinctly significant character, especially to young female consumers who was neither butch nor dizzily feminine. In other words, she was carefully tailored to appeal for a preadolescent [female] audience. Also, Misty was also unique to other aggressive female characters in that she never sacrificed her femininity to succeed, thus making her even more popular to American Women. Heck, girls even accepted her and went as far as to associate with her character, at least according to statistics (Something that the study "They Don't Like Me: Lessons of Bullying and Teasing from a Preschool Classroom" also noted). While many boys did, the majority were girls. She was also a non-threatening source of sexuality for both older and younger viewers. Likewise, the same book never even mentioned May once, despite the fact that by the time the book was published, May had already grounded herself into the Pokemon Anime for three "seasons", for lack of a better term in Japan, and was already receiving prominence in the American version. The author also implied that he also did statistics of the Japanese version as well as the american version for the book.

Pikachu's Global Adventure isn't the only source that I know of that talks about Misty in a very positive light, BTW. The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture also mentioned that Misty was a mother figure, in other words, a nurturing component for Ash and Brock, and it even went as far as to state that she was "an unusually 'complete' character in the Pokemon World" noting both her feminine sentimentality and her explosive rage.

Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces was probably the most praiseworthy of her character, as it not only praised her for being particularly nuanced, but they even went as far as to say that she contributed heavily towards the series appeal.

Springer Netherlands study of Sex Roles also noted that Misty's traits were expressed to be Assertive/Aggressive and Romantic by children and college fans of pokemon, respectively.

Basically, if you can find anything that could even top the above or be on par with college-level studies and animation commentary that relates to any positive impacts on May or Dawn, be my guest.

On topic: I felt the Show was collapsing ever since Misty left. However, the way the Hoenn Gym Leaders were handled (or at least from what I've read about the battles) were just terrible. It almost felt like Ash was just fighting JJM instead of Pokemon Experts (this also led further to my hate of how they removed Misty.). I honestly didn't think Johto was as bad as everyone claims.

 

[Vernikova]

How should you know? I thought you didn't even watch much of AG (since whenever I mentioned the Gym battles in that series, you say that you haven't watched much of AG).

I'm not Jorah. Whenever you mention battles in Hoenn, I usually ridicule you.

Umm... actually, she would be loved by the new kids so much more than May and Dawn, going by what several college-level researchers discovered.

Oh, the college research is your new crutch now? How fun.

Anyway Weedle, everything you just said basically was "Misty is a great role model, yup". That's great. Wonderful. Couldn't be happier. How does that prove she would more popular than May and Dawn? Oh right it doesn't.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

I'm not Jorah. Whenever you mention battles in Hoenn, I usually ridicule you.

All right, my mistake, although the name was similar enough. And BTW, ridicule is something I neither condone, nor tolerate.

Oh, the college research is your new crutch now? How fun.

Anyway Weedle, everything you just said basically was "Misty is a great role model, yup". That's great. Wonderful. Couldn't be happier. How does that prove she would more popular than May and Dawn? Oh right it doesn't.

It proves that she would be more popular than May or Dawn because those things were actually cited. Heck, as I stated earlier, Pikachu's Global Adventure neglected to even mention May, and considering the date it was published (2004), Japan would have already have known her for quite a while, and America would most certainly have heard of her. It was already implied in the same source that the author also does studies in Japan to come up with his research.

 

[Vernikova]

All right, my mistake, although the name was similar enough. And BTW, ridicule is something I neither condone, nor tolerate.

Ridicule too strong of a word?

It proves that she would be more popular than May or Dawn because those things were actually cited. Heck, as I stated earlier, Pikachu's Global Adventure neglected to even mention May, and considering the date it was published (2004), Japan would have already have known her for quite a while, and America would most certainly have heard of her. It was already implied in the same source that the author also does studies in Japan to come up with his research.

May obviously wasn't included because she was still on the show at the time in Japan. It would be silly to include her.

Now, let's briefly discuss your other point. Well, what you seem to believe is your point. As I said, that research didn't say anything but 1) She was a good role model and 2) that she was great with the girls at the time. Until you give some kind of evidence that says that Misty would do better on the show than May or Dawn ever did or does, I'll only see option Uno as valid. You'll probably say that she was in Johto and that did better than Hoenn and Sinnoh but I'll just reply that 2/3 of that cast are still on the show.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Ridicule too strong of a word?

Yes, especially considering the hell I went through on BMGf (believe me, if you had to go through what I had to go through on there with the Hall of Shame, you'd get nightmares)

May obviously wasn't included because she was still on the show at the time in Japan. It would be silly to include her.

The day the book was published was in 2004, and the author had already implied a few times that he had done research on how the Japanese kids felt about Pokemon in order to try and do his book. Besides, he already mentioned Ash and Brock in that same book, and they were still on the show at that point so her still being on the show is not a valid arguement. Besides which, during the time that the book was published, we were up to about 7 episodes of AG, so there wouldn't have been any reason NOT to mention it.

Now, let's briefly discuss your other point. Well, what you seem to believe is your point. As I said, that research didn't say anything but 1) She was a good role model and 2) that she was great with the girls at the time. Until you give some kind of evidence that says that Misty would do better on the show than May or Dawn ever did or does, I'll only see option Uno as valid. You'll probably say that she was in Johto and that did better than Hoenn and Sinnoh but I'll just reply that 2/3 of that cast are still on the show.

Again, I did give you evidence (Pikachu's Global Adventure, Japanification in Children's Popular Culture, Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces, the study "They Don't Like Me: Lessons of Bullying and Teasing from a Preschool Classroom", and a study of Sex Roles from Springer Netherlands are the pieces of evidence. Heck, I also read Pikachu's Global Adventure.).

 

[Vernikova]

The day the book was published was in 2004, and the author had already implied a few times that he had done research on how the Japanese kids felt about Pokemon in order to try and do his book. Besides, he already mentioned Ash and Brock in that same book, and they were still on the show at that point so her still being on the show is not a valid arguement. Besides which, during the time that the book was published, we were up to about 7 episodes of AG, so there wouldn't have been any reason NOT to mention it.

Ash and Brock had been on the show for about 8 years at that time, right? It would be easier to include them than include a May who only appeared in 7 episodes as you claim.

Again, I did give you evidence (Pikachu's Global Adventure, Japanification in Children's Popular Culture, Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces, the study "They Don't Like Me: Lessons of Bullying and Teasing from a Preschool Classroom", and a study of Sex Roles from Springer Netherlands are the pieces of evidence. Heck, I also read Pikachu's Global Adventure.).

Again, none of them claim that she was better than May or Dawn nor that she would do better than them nor that she could appeal better than them to girls. Right? Right. None indicate that she would be successful right now, 2 years ago or anything but that she was successful during her time. Right? 'Kay.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Ash and Brock had been on the show for about 8 years at that time, right? It would be easier to include them than include a May who only appeared in 7 episodes as you claim.

Correction on my part, it would be 14 AG episodes at the earliest, and 64 episodes at the latest that have aired in America by the time it was published. Either way, that's still more than enough episodes to have May appear and be known to the audience by the time the book was published, so there is no reason to have May not receive a mention.

Again, none of them claim that she was better than May or Dawn nor that she would do better than them nor that she could appeal better than them to girls. Right? Right. None indicate that she would be successful right now, 2 years ago or anything but that she was successful during her time. Right? 'Kay.

Not mentioning May, despite knowing of her existance, both in Japan and in the US, and despite mentioning some things about Japan that were cut from the US (like the whole issue of Misty slapping Ash in Episode 1, something that the population at large would not even know before they picked up the book unless they had something like the web) would be a pretty big implication that Misty would be better, and that May is trash, even if it's not verbally stated.

 

[Vernikova]

Correction on my part, it would be 14 AG episodes at the earliest, and 64 episodes at the latest that have aired in America by the time it was published. Either way, that's still more than enough episodes to have May appear and be known to the audience by the time the book was published, so there is no reason to have May not receive a mention.

I guess the writer just didn't have enough information to include her. There could be numeral reasons why she wasn't included but that doesn't matter. Right?

Not mentioning May, despite knowing of her existance, both in Japan and in the US, and despite mentioning some things about Japan that were cut from the US (like the whole issue of Misty slapping Ash in Episode 1, something that the population at large would not even know before they picked up the book unless they had something like the web) would be a pretty big implication that Misty would be better, and that May is trash, even if it's not verbally stated.

If you interpret it that way. If imply and interpret are your biggest allies in this argument then get the **** out of my face until you get something that can sway my opinion or that is at least stated.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

I guess the writer just didn't have enough information to include her. There could be numeral reasons why she wasn't included but that doesn't matter. Right?

He had also gotten more than enough information about Misty, so he could have easily gotten just as much information about May.

If you interpret it that way. If imply and interpret are your biggest allies in this argument then get the **** out of my face until you get something that can sway my opinion or that is at least stated.

Ok, If you want something that's more than just that. Here's something that not even you can argue.

With the first two airings in AG to have Misty in them, they ranked the highest in America, at the very least (I cannot exactly say Japan, not because I know for certain it wasn't high, but because the only legitimate sources for ratings, Pokeani just listed the ratings for the general saga rather than the actual ratings for the episodes themselves). However, with the first five episodes to have May reappear in DP that aired, they didn't even come close to match the aforementioned AG episodes, never mind surpass them. Schoolwork? homework? jobs? trips? power outages? I doubt those impacted the ratings of those episodes any more than it would the AG episodes, so those definitely wouldn't work.

And again, you supply information that could top my evidence, and I may heed to your opinion. I mean, besides fan opinion (such as her actually ranking higher than May and Dawn on some forums, and the demand for Misty to return ranking high on Pokecommunity and Serebiiforums, at least, I actually have college-level sources and even animation sources on my side. You'd need to find something of that level if you want to prove that May and/or Dawn are even considered equal to Misty, especially in terms of impact.

 

[GymLeaderMisty]

May and Dawn are not synonymous with Pokémon, but Misty was.

Weedle, do you have that data for the episode ratings?

 

[Oblivion Reaper 2.0]

The show went to hell after Misty left the show...May wuz ok but Dawn?
horrible...wait I am talking about the show? It just sucks period.

 

[Vernikova]

He had also gotten more than enough information about Misty, so he could have easily gotten just as much information about May.

As I said, Misty was on longer so more iformation about her was available .

With the first two airings in AG to have Misty in them, they ranked the highest in America, at the very least (I cannot exactly say Japan, not because I know for certain it wasn't high, but because the only legitimate sources for ratings, Pokeani just listed the ratings for the general saga rather than the actual ratings for the episodes themselves). However, with the first five episodes to have May reappear in DP that aired, they didn't even come close to match the aforementioned AG episodes, never mind surpass them. Schoolwork? homework? jobs? trips? power outages? I doubt those impacted the ratings of those episodes any more than it would the AG episodes, so those definitely wouldn't work.

Cable can easily be a reason.

And again, you supply information that could top my evidence, and I may heed to your opinion. I mean, besides fan opinion (such as her actually ranking higher than May and Dawn on some forums, and the demand for Misty to return ranking high on Pokecommunity and Serebiiforums, at least, I actually have college-level sources and even animation sources on my side. You'd need to find something of that level if you want to prove that May and/or Dawn are even considered equal to Misty, especially in terms of impact.

I can't top information about Misty being more of a role model. Sadly for you, you claimed that she would be more popular so the burden of proof is on you and as I said your college research showed nothing to support you in your attempt of proving your point.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

May and Dawn are not synonymous with Pokémon, but Misty was.

Weedle, do you have that data for the episode ratings?

Well, I don't. But I know someone who knows where to find it. Ask Nickstr.

As I said, Misty was on longer so more iformation about her was available .

America as a whole had no information of the fact that Misty slapped Ash in Episodes 1 and 3, yet he still mentioned it anyways.

Cable can easily be a reason.

Cable was also around when AG was around, and she still had higher ratings than May's return episodes.

I can't top information about Misty being more of a role model. Sadly for you, you claimed that she would be more popular so the burden of proof is on you and as I said your college research showed nothing to support you in your attempt of proving your point.

Misty being more of a role-model=popularity. Heck, Ariel was basically one of the more popular Disney Princesses, she was even made a mascot (or ambassador) of several groups, most notably the "Keep our oceans clean" campaign by Environmental Defense, the National Maritime Society, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. You can't say she is more of a role model if she isn't popular, and most people look up to those who are role models. In fact, role-model and popularity are almost synonymous with each other.

Besides, with Mario, he was not only considered popular, you simply could not even think of a person who hasn't even heard of Mario, which implies that popularity=iconic.

 

[Vernikova]

Cable was also around when AG was around, and she still had higher ratings than May's return episodes.

You do understand what I mean when I say cable could be a factor, no?

Misty being more of a role-model=popularity. Heck, Ariel was basically one of the more popular Disney Princesses, she was even made a mascot (or ambassador) of several groups, most notably the "Keep our oceans clean" campaign by Environmental Defense, the National Maritime Society, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. You can't say she is more of a role model if she isn't popular, and most people look up to those who are role models. In fact, role-model and popularity are almost synonymous with each other.

Besides, with Mario, he was not only considered popular, you simply could not even think of a person who hasn't even heard of Mario, which implies that popularity=iconic.

A good role model isn't the same as being popular. Why would you even think that? You could be a great role model but not be popular with anyone while you can be popular and be a bad influence. Also, though it's unrlated, popularity doesn't mean iconic either and iconic doesn't mean you have to be popular. Ariel was obviously used as a mascot because she was a popular Disney character and she fit the bill, not beause she was a good role model.