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it should have been ended when SM started.. the horrors.
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When should the series have ended?
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You realize that Johto originally *was* supposed to be Ash's final region, right? The only reason he lost and continued on into later regions was because TPTB were unwilling to take a risk on a new protagonist and decided to keep Ash around forever. Otherwise, he would've likely won at the end of Johto and gotten closure on his storyline.
Unown Seer
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Johto with a proper rewriting of how the Pokemon were handled.
This is the first time in years in the Pokemon fandom that I've heard about it. I don't think you'd do such claim without having a source, right? may you link me to it? I don't think Ash's journey was meant to end in OS.
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Johto didn't need to be rewriting, and the GS ball plot shouldn't have been drop from the series other then that, the Johto Pokemon were handled really well.
Johto would have been much better for the show to finally come to an end, like they originally plan too.
AG and DP would have been god awful for the show come to an end. But the OS would have been a good way to end the show for good, it would have finally brought closure to Ash's character.
Johto would have been much better for the show to finally come to an end, like they originally plan too.
AG and DP would have been god awful for the show come to an end. But the OS would have been a good way to end the show for good, it would have finally brought closure to Ash's character.
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Go look it up yourself. GSC were originally intended to be the final games, and likewise, the anime (and Ash's story) was meant to end there, as well.
Remember that Ash was based on the protagonist of the original games, and Red doesn't have any relevance to regions beyond Kanto and Johto. RSE were the first games to not feature Red as either a player character or a NPC, as well as the first to feature a region completely disconnected from the Indigo League and Team Rocket story. There was no reason for any OS era characters to continue on into Hoenn and beyond, as those characters no longer had any relevance to the current games (which the show *is* meant to be advertising, let us not forget).
Why should Ash, Brock, and the TRio have been in Hoenn when their respective game counterparts were nowhere to be found in RSE? And, why did actual Hoenn characters like Brendan and Wally deserve to be cheated out from ever being in the show because these irrelevant Kanto characters were overstaying their welcome? Why did the region's actual evil teams (Magma/Aqua) deserve to be shafted in favor of tired TRio antics? These same issues (shafting of game characters, poor handling of evil teams) still continue in the show to this day, and it's all because of Ash and the TRio sticking around.
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No link= Didn't happen.
You're making the rest of that stuff which is not true and I didn't even bother to read. OS fans are salty forever cause you guys live of nostalgia.
''OS is the best season!''
''Misty is the best Pokegirl!''
''OS movies are the best''.
''Pokemon was planned to end in OS!''.
I'm sick of it. OS will never come back, deal with it.
I'm done with this thread.
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Well, at least you admitted that you didn't read a single thing I wrote. :rolleyes2:
This is not at all about "OS nostalgia." This is about the show doing what it's supposed to by advertising the games, and sending characters like Ash, Brock, and the TRio into regions their game counterparts have no relevance in doesn't advertise the games, especially when it always comes at the expense of characters who actually *are* in the current games. It'd also be really nice to have protagonists whose stories are always given closure and are never forced to lose and "reset" at the end of every region.
weedle_mchairybug
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Hey, Kuzehiko, her complaints have literally nothing to do with nostalgia for the OS, at least, I don't think they do. Quite the opposite, she's more irritated that they shafted a lot of characters and teams for various new series because of their decision to keep Ash, Brock, and Team Rocket around despite the fact that the latter three were completely irrelevant to those regions. You have a problem with OS fans or those who think they're better, fine, but don't denounce people who didn't even imply that OS was necessarily better.
weedle_mchairybug
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Yeah, by having Ash actually WIN the league. Heck, even DP or Johto would have qualified. Even BF would have qualified.
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Thank you, Weedle. {:3}
When you look at all of the game characters who got robbed of an anime appearance, it's almost always because of Ash and the TRio sticking around. They can't portray any male protagonists because Ash is filling their role, and the female protagonists who do appear will always be put in the same fanservice/coordinator/sidekick role because them actually fulfilling the role they play in the games would be considered redundant with Ash.
And, then you have the game rivals, who either never appear at all (Silver, Wally, Hugh, Hau) or get extremely downplayed and pushed to the background (Barry, Bianca, Cheren, the XY friends), and why? Because, again, Ash is the protagonist rather than the actual game protagonists, so it's far harder to have these characters appear in the same capacity as in the games (especially sequel-only rivals like Silver and Hugh). The only reason Gary got to appear more was because he's actually from the same generation as Ash, and even then, he was still pretty badly handled past Kanto.
This has likely also even affected E4 members. Since sticking around has forced Ash to lose every league, this has made E4 members far less relevant and useful to the show. After all, why waste time on them when Ash is always going to lose and never even come close to battling them? End result, only a handful of E4 members ever make it into the show, with only the Gen 1 and Sinnoh E4s actually appearing as a whole (and even the Gen 1 E4 members' appearances were still spread out over several seasons).
And, need I even mention the regional villains and how they're almost always pushed to the background and given botched, anti-climactic endings? Well, as long as the TRio are still in the show and stalking Ash, the regional villains will always play second-fiddle because screentime has to be allotted to the TRio and their antics.
None of this is about "OS nostalgia." This is about wanting the show to actually serve its purpose as an advertisement for the games.
Hey, I'm sorry for what I said.
I didnt have a good day yesterday and I wasn't in good mood. I received the link and it pretty much was about what you said. I am happy Pokemon didn't end back then though cause I love gen 3, 4, 5 and 6.
Yeah, it's about the games I know. Although I think the anime does avertise the games in certain way.
I already apologized to her.
Yes, I don't like certain OS fans' attitude
Their attitude is very arrogant and I certainly dislike it. However, this has nothing to do with OS fans and I was bad bringing it on so let's pass over it.
I agree Team Rocket has been irrelevent into the series since longer ago. I can understand why you also feel the same way about Ash and Brock. I may agree about Brock but not sure about Ash as he's the MC and it makes sense he's still in the show.
weedle_mchairybug
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Apology accepted.
Regarding Ash, he may be the MC, but then again, there have been plenty of shows and mediums that swapped out their MCs anyway, like Digimon, Pokémon Special, and the like. And quite frankly, I really would rather have him be replaced if it at least meant he actually succeeds in his goal (and quite frankly, the only times he came close by actually increasing in rank and skill is in Johto [and yes, that does count as improvement. In Kanto, he got Top 16, while in Johto, he got Top 8, that's improvement last I checked], DP, and XY. Even there, he got his thunder stolen from him both times via a cop out).
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It's okay, Kuzehiko. I have days like that, too.
Since you love Gens 3-6, consider all of the characters from those games who either didn't appear in the show at all or only got a minor, watered-down appearance because the show insisted on keeping Ash, Brock, and the TRio around.
Like, what about Brendan, the character in your avatar, for example? Because the show decided to keep Ash in Hoenn, the actual male protagonist from those games was literally robbed of an anime counterpart. How fair is that?
Or, how about all of the regional villains who got completely shafted in the show because of the need to continue focusing on the TRio and their antics? As a fan of Gens 3-6, wouldn't you have wanted to see these plots be adapted properly and not constantly be put on the backburner in favor of Team Rocket?
You say that Ash is the MC, but his game counterpart, Red, has not been the MC since RBY, nor has he had story relevance since GSC. If Red isn't getting shoehorned into the stories of Hoenn, Sinnoh, and so on, then why should Ash?
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I was just voicing my opinions; i wasn't trying to force them on anybody...
AG and DP did show that Ash did mature as a Pokemon trainer in the Hoenn and Sinnoh regions, but in the AG series Ash didn't increase in rank at the Hoenn League despite only using the Hoenn Pokemon that he caught in the Hoenn region, he stay in the same rank top 8 as he did in Johto. DP did show that Ash gotten a lot more mature as an Pokemon trainer, and he did increase in rank top 4 at the Sinnoh League and that's the only good thing DP did do right. Ash did improved an whole lot as a Pokemon trainer in the Sinnoh region but he only did it for one region without any recall to what he did in the last region, and let's not forget that the Battle Frontier treated his wins like an joke.
The OS show that Ash gotten much better as a Pokemon trainer in both the Kanto and Johto regions. However he improved a whole lot more better in Johto and even mature there as a Pokemon trainer , improving in both regions instead of just one.
I really do feel in my opinion. That the OS would have been perfect for Ash's character to retire and bring the show to an end.
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DarkPokeball1985
When The Moon Eclipse The Sun
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The only thing I don't like about Sun and Moon is what they did to James in terms of looks. He was very attractive from the beginning now he's just handsome. And yeah I don't agree with the new "Blast off" with Bewear either. I still prefer the classic blasting off in the sky! Too me that never gets old! What makes no sense is how does Bewear even know when Team Rocket are battling yet alone when to save them from losing the battle. But other then that Sun and Moon offers more vibrant colors and animation, Team Skull, a new region (Alola), the Spirit Guardian Pokemon, and a new way to battle instead of their dependence on gyms. It brings a new fresh take on how to battle.
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I can't help but feel the show should have come to a close years ago, or at least, Ash should have left thr show years ago. Heck, the games use different main characters, so if they didn't wanna reboot the anime side of things, they could have at least done what the games do, and made new main characters, which wouldn't even be hard to fit into continuity. Ash doesn't even need to stay for the series to continue, in my opinion.
That said, I also saw someone bring up the idea of retiring Ash for a while, and only bringing him back once there's been enough time for people to miss him.
But as far as actually ending goes, I do feel like the series should have ended a long time ago. Probably in the Orange Islands, maybe Hoenn if I'm feeling generous. I don't feel like the franchise needs this series to survive.
That said, I also saw someone bring up the idea of retiring Ash for a while, and only bringing him back once there's been enough time for people to miss him.
But as far as actually ending goes, I do feel like the series should have ended a long time ago. Probably in the Orange Islands, maybe Hoenn if I'm feeling generous. I don't feel like the franchise needs this series to survive.
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If they did slightly better in Johto, they could have used that to wrap up Ash's journey.