Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall election as voters reject unions

[FreakyLocz14]

Gov. Scott Walker (R-WI) has survived an effort to remove him from office.

Governor Walker will continue to stand-up for Wisconsin by getting the state's fiscal house in order.

In other news, voters in San Jose, California have overwhelmingly passed Measure B, dealing the politically powerful South Bay AFL-CIO Labor Council a devastating blow.

Cities around the nation are viewing the vote in San Jose as a pension reform model for cities nationwide.


https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/us/politics/walker-survives-wisconsin-recall-effort.html?_r=1
https://www.mercurynews.com/pension...sion-fight-could-have-nationwide-implications

 

[Dakotah]

Wow, Freaky, could you get any more partisan? I don't care if a person is "left-wing" or right-wing" with an attitude like that I wouldn't want to associate with any of them. You must take great joy in calling people who disagree with a particular point of view "thugs."

I think what we're beginning to see here is the start of a one party system in that state. The effort to cripple the Democratic party's main means of financial support is an effort to significantly reduce their chances in future elections. And unless the GOP makes a serious blunder (which all parties are known to do at some point) we could see the Democrats reduced to single digit numbers in both houses for a long time to come. Money buys power, and there is no higher power in society than government. If you control all the money, you control all the power. Kill the unions, and you kill the Democrats. It's that simple.

 

[Esper]

Kill the unions, and you kill the Democrats. It's that simple.

True. While the basic idea behind reducing the influence of outside groups in politics is good, when you only focus on one political group's money you're creating some big imbalance.

But yeah. Anyone who says that all this union busting stuff isn't to weaken the Democratic party is lying or stupid.

 

[Illuminaughty]

Apparently unions are absolutely horrible. Not to say in some cases they have gone overboard, but remember the early 20th century and back, in a time when you cut you hand in a paper mill, and you were out of a job with no compensation? My grandfather had three of his fingers chopped off due to a malfunction in a machine and did not receive a dime since there was very little union power. Unions are not "thugs". The power of the unions should be equal to that of the employer, who, like a landlord, must meet the needs of it's employees or tenants respectively.

 

[Dakotah]

Apparently unions are absolutely horrible. Not to say in some cases they have gone overboard, but remember the early 20th century and back, in a time when you cut you hand in a paper mill, and you were out of a job with no compensation? My grandfather had three of his fingers chopped off due to a malfunction in a machine and did not receive a dime since there was very little union power. Unions are not "thugs". The power of the unions should be equal to that of the employer, who, like a landlord, must meet the needs of it's employees or tenants respectively.

Unions are why we have many of the workplace protections today. By attempting to eliminate unions, governments are attempting to role back workplace protections. Already there is talk of making those under 18 work longer hours, and getting rid of the minimum wage. This will set a very dangerous precedent if these legislators get their way.

 

[Illuminaughty]

Unions are why we have many of the workplace protections today. By attempting to eliminate unions, governments are attempting to role back workplace protections. Already there is talk of making those under 18 work longer hours, and getting rid of the minimum wage. This will set a very dangerous precedent if these legislators get their way.

I think you misread my post.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

I'm really surprised he survived. I thought they were going to kick him out. I hoped they were going to vote him out. I hope this isn't a trend. The dems need to clean up this fall. I also find it odd that they didn't kick him out given that the outrage must have been huge to have called this vote in the first place.

(Personally, I think private unions are fine. Not as relevant as they once were, but I don't have a problem with their continued existence. Public unions I'm not fond of, but a lot of the problems with them could be easily addressed by political negotiators who actually negotiate instead of just agreeing to what a union proposes early on - a give and take from both sides, not just one.)[/FONT]

 

[Guest123_x1]

I was expecting Walker to be recalled in a landslide. Apparently unions aren't as powerful in Wisconsin as they are in some other states, such as Michigan-where the Michigan Education Association got State Representative Paul Scott recalled last November, with accusations of him "demonizing teachers", and his other actions as chair of the state House Education Committee, and have worked hard to try and recall Governor Rick Snyder, as well as my state Senator, Phil Pavlov.

 

[Dakotah]

I think you misread my post.

In what way? You mentioned the example of what your grandfather had to go through, and I illustrated how much unions have helped to shape our labour laws. I have no doubt that because of the efforts of unions, had your grandfather lost his fingers today, the union representing him would have had enough clout to force his employer to compensate him fairly for his injuries.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that there needs to be a balance between the employer and the union, but what we're seeing lately is an imbalance of power, where the government is undermining the very support system workers have relied upon for decades. By eliminating collective bargaining rights, workers no longer have a voice at the table. Their wages can be rolled back, their retirement benefits cut back and even eliminated, and the tools they need to adequately do the job could become more scarce.

There needs to be a balance of power, but when the power is tilted more in favour of the employer, as it is now, that's when we start seeing everything workers have fought for begin to disappear. And when that happens, you'll see people who hated unions so much wishing for their return.

 

[Esper]

I was expecting Walker to be recalled in a landslide. Apparently unions aren't as powerful in Wisconsin as they are in some other states, such as Michigan-where the Michigan Education Association got State Representative Paul Scott recalled last November, with accusations of him "demonizing teachers", and his other actions as chair of the state House Education Committee, and have worked hard to try and recall Governor Rick Snyder, as well as my state Senator, Phil Pavlov.

I think the fact that he outspent his opponent by 8 to 1 might have something to do with his survival. Now that we have unlimited spending rules and no disclosure whoever has the most money is going to win every election every time, save for a few outliers. Corporate money and union money are generally the biggest contributors and since unions are being broken everywhere and they tend to favor Democrats and corporations favoring Republicans you can be sure that this is a trend which will repeat itself.

It's like what happened in California with our proposed cigarette tax. People were 2 to 1 for the tax, but then big tobacco spent millions on ads misleading people into thinking the tax money would be spent badly and now the tax seems to have lost by a slim margin. You throw enough money at one side of an election and they can't loose.

 

[Guest123_x1]

Corporate money and union money are generally the biggest contributors and since unions are being broken everywhere and they tend to favor Democrats and corporations favoring Republicans you can be sure that this is a trend which will repeat itself.

It's like what happened in California with our proposed cigarette tax. People were 2 to 1 for the tax, but then big tobacco spent millions on ads misleading people into thinking the tax money would be spent badly and now the tax seems to have lost by a slim margin. You throw enough money at one side of an election and they can't loose.

Although I'm going to sound like a progressive (which I clearly am not) by saying this, I think it's about time we get corporate and union money out of politics altogether. With these two major forces contributing to elections, the people that are put in office are going to favor those two interests over ordinary folks every time. Both parties are guilty of selling out and putting the interests of mega-corporations and Big Labor above those of voters that put them in office. Even those candidates that claim they're going to limit or ban altogether corporate contributions that get elected sell out and do the exact opposite, especially in today's world, where globalist/one-world-government forces like the Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergs effectively determining who gets top political offices, even going to the point of fixing/rigging elections in some places like Russia and Iran.

 

[Illuminaughty]

In what way? You mentioned the example of what your grandfather had to go through, and I illustrated how much unions have helped to shape our labour laws. I have no doubt that because of the efforts of unions, had your grandfather lost his fingers today, the union representing him would have had enough clout to force his employer to compensate him fairly for his injuries.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that there needs to be a balance between the employer and the union, but what we're seeing lately is an imbalance of power, where the government is undermining the very support system workers have relied upon for decades. By eliminating collective bargaining rights, workers no longer have a voice at the table. Their wages can be rolled back, their retirement benefits cut back and even eliminated, and the tools they need to adequately do the job could become more scarce.

There needs to be a balance of power, but when the power is tilted more in favour of the employer, as it is now, that's when we start seeing everything workers have fought for begin to disappear. And when that happens, you'll see people who hated unions so much wishing for their return.

Umm, no, I really don't think you interpreted it correctly.

I said there was little to no union power when he was not compensated. The employer did not work in his best interest, only in their selfish monetary interest.

I think the fact that he outspent his opponent by 8 to 1 might have something to do with his survival. Now that we have unlimited spending rules and no disclosure whoever has the most money is going to win every election every time, save for a few outliers. Corporate money and union money are generally the biggest contributors and since unions are being broken everywhere and they tend to favor Democrats and corporations favoring Republicans you can be sure that this is a trend which will repeat itself.

It's like what happened in California with our proposed cigarette tax. People were 2 to 1 for the tax, but then big tobacco spent millions on ads misleading people into thinking the tax money would be spent badly and now the tax seems to have lost by a slim margin. You throw enough money at one side of an election and they can't loose.

I know! It's ridiculous, right? Apparently he spent 23 bucks per vote, his opponent spent 3.50 per vote.

The total amount of money wasted on the campaign was 35 million which was all spent in vain.

 

[Livewire]

If the vote was really "Anti union" as suggested the recall would never have happened. Tell that to the million or so signatures that were collected. Leave it to the OP to warp things out of proportion entirely.

 

[twocows]

Unions are an advocacy group. I hardly think it's a bad thing that groups exist to push for workers' rights, especially given that the flip side of the coin is corporations, who (as of now) have a majority stake in the federal and most state governments.

 

[.:CoralSoda:.]

Remind me not to work in Wisconsin.

I do believe unions are a good thing and they certainly protect the workers. But they are not perfect by any means. For example, the place I work for has a union and my job is secure from pretty much anything as long as I don't steal. But the bad part of that is a union protects everyone, even the crappiest workers, which is really annoying.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Unions are the main reason why crappy teachers can't be replaced. They also cause job loss and outsourcing by making it too expensive for employers to hire workers.

 

[Illuminaughty]

Unions are the main reason why crappy teachers can't be replaced. They also cause job loss and outsourcing by making it too expensive for employers to hire workers.

Look at the amount of hours US teachers teach on average, and then compare it to the amount of money they make each year. Korean teachers half the hours and get paid more.

We make teachers work too many hours for how much they get paid. Less money per hour. Also, countries like South Korea and Findland have teachers work 550-600 hours per year, which is half of what the average US teacher work which is around 1,100 hours per year.

Findland and South Korea hold the top two spots for education as determined by scores and data collected by several institutions including the U.N.

Spoiler:

The unions protect teachers from being under worked and paid, but as you can see from the data they continue to be both of those.

If you are worried about "crappy teachers" we must first deal with the working conditions before you can determine whether a person is a bad teacher or just overworked. If we are to be like South Korea or Finland, we must lower hours, and reinstate fair wages to teachers, in order to do this we need unions to advocate for this.

Also, outsourcing is cause by lax restrictions on corporations like Walmart. We allow them to pay workers at low wages and poor working conditions in China so they can yield higher profits. There needs to be regulation in order to prevent this, rather than lowering wages, and protections of workers in our country which would emulate the conditions of workers in China. Why do you think the Chinese do not have unions or minimum wage? They have tons of wealth, but at whose expense? If we force them, and other countries to protect workers with embargoes and trade limitations, then the competition for outsourcing is eliminated since the cost to protect workers by instating higher wages and working conditions would be more consistent world-round. We are the number one importer of Chinese products, and outsourcer of jobs, we have the power to set the regulations, and create a positive global impact.

It makes more sense than trying to lower our standards to the best competitions like China and India.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Look at the amount of hours US teachers teach on average, and then compare it to the amount of money they make each year. Korean teachers half the hours and get paid more.

We make teachers work too many hours for how much they get paid. Less money per hour. Also, countries like South Korea and Findland have teachers work 550-600 hours per year, which is half of what the average US teacher work which is around 1,100 hours per year.

Yes indeedy. I think the US average is like $65,000. Many probably a quite number make lower than that too.

Where I live, they start around $85,000 and by the time they retire they're around $95,000.

The pay doesn't bother me. I wouldn't mind if it goes higher either really. It's more the benefits that go with that that bug me. Here, the teachers can take up to 20 sick days a year. Many don't. Because they're allowed to bank them, save them up and retire early and get paid for that off time as if they were still working. Or, if they don't retire early they can convert the unused days to cash and take up to another $50,000 on top of their pension and other leaving benefits.

Once you do retire, you can also stay on as a permanent substitute teacher - denying a position to young, new teacher who needs the work and income. Jobs for life doesn't help people in need of a job.

There are some truly great, terrific, hard-working teachers out there. And many more who work do the minimum of work, because there is no incentive to do better. Lots of teachers who want to go that extra mile, putting in longer hours to give their student extra help or throw special events (like reading parties for the younger kids). But they don't get paid more for being better teachers and enjoying their job. That is the problem with unions.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Yes indeedy. I think the US average is like $65,000. Many probably a quite number make lower than that too.

Where I live, they start around $85,000 and by the time they retire they're around $95,000.

The pay doesn't bother me. I wouldn't mind if it goes higher either really. It's more the benefits that go with that that bug me. Here, the teachers can take up to 20 sick days a year. Many don't. Because they're allowed to bank them, save them up and retire early and get paid for that off time as if they were still working. Or, if they don't retire early they can convert the unused days to cash and take up to another $50,000 on top of their pension and other leaving benefits.

Once you do retire, you can also stay on as a permanent substitute teacher - denying a position to young, new teacher who needs the work and income. Jobs for life doesn't help people in need of a job.

There are some truly great, terrific, hard-working teachers out there. And many more who work do the minimum of work, because there is no incentive to do better. Lots of teachers who want to go that extra mile, putting in longer hours to give their student extra help or throw special events (like reading parties for the younger kids). But they don't get paid more for being better teachers and enjoying their job. That is the problem with unions.

$65,000 a year for 9 months worth of work is bad pay? Teachers don't work all 12 months out of the year, you know. That doesn't even include the generous medical, dental, and pensions that teachers get.

 

[Livewire]

$65,000 a year for 9 months worth of work is bad pay? Teachers don't work all 12 months out of the year, you know. That doesn't even include the generous medical, dental, and pensions that teachers get.

Considering the GOP nominee makes tens of millions annually for not working at all and for strapping dogs to the roof of his car, yeah.