[WWII Discussion] What would happen if Japan never bombed Pearl Harbor?

[Jack O'Neill]

If Pearl Habour didn't happen the nazis would have had the scientific minds who made the nuclear bombs and would have taken over the world.

As far as I know, Einstein and J. Robert Oppenheimer were in America long before Pearl Harbor. But America did actually recruit some Nazi Physicists and scientists after the war to help develop our nuclear and end eventually the space program further, such as Arthur Randolf and Wernher von Braun. Von Braun was even in the SS at one time.

Pearl Harbour is irrelevant when concerning the topic of persecution of scientists in Europe prior to World War II. Many of the major players of European origin in the Manhattan Project, such as Enrico Fermi, John von Neumann, Leó Szilárd, Edward Teller, Stanislaw Ulam, and Eugene Wigner, were already in the United States by 1938, a good three years before Pearl Harbour. Also, J. Robert Oppenheimer was a natural-born American.

The quality of what the Soviets output was also poor at best.

And really, for all we know, the two powers may have negotiated a cease fire at some point. This is all hypothetical, which isn't something anyone can predict with a great deal of certainty, and it's certainly not something worth arguing so vehemently about.

Poor at best? Russian tanks were among the best of World War II. Sure, later German tanks like the Panther and Tiger may have bigger guns and thicker armour on paper, but in practice, those bigger guns and thicker armour don't mean a thing if the tank itself is rendered immobile by an overly complicated transmission that breaks down easily. The T-34 had a gun big enough to tear through most opposition like a hot knife through butter, had armor that was proof against anything short of an 88, and was far easier to produce and maintain. Sure, it may have been a bit on the crude side, but such concerns are irrelevant when it comes to actual combat performance.

Russian aircraft certainly weren't anything to underestimate, either. The Ilyushin Il-2 was the bane of the Wehrmacht, while the Yakovlev Yak-9 and Lavochkin La-7 outperformed their Luftwaffe counterparts at the low altitudes where the majority of air combat on the Eastern Front took place.

Also, why would the Nazis, with all their rhetoric about lebensraum and the inferiority of the Slavic races, even deign to negotiate a cease-fire with the Soviets? There are things you can predict with a significant amount of certainty if you care to look at historical precedents.

 

[Anthraxinsoup]

If Japan hadn't attacked pearl harbour it wouldn't have given FDR a full force reason to enter the war with full support, he would have most likely failed his attempts like before and only could support the USSR and UK. Now if the troops from the USA didn't enter Germany would have been able to keep a much stronger hold, and probably last out, and by that time FDR would have been died most likely, and then a regime helpful to the National Socialist Germany might have been setup. If not they probably wouldn't have entered the war still. Germany at this point probably would have won. This would in effect change must of history, but one big point is no Israel and no Middle-eastern wars, least not these ones.

Also, why would the Nazis, with all their rhetoric about lebensraum and the inferiority of the Slavic races, even deign to negotiate a cease-fire with the Soviets? There are things you can predict with a significant amount of certainty if you care to look at historical precedents.

You sir might need to read up some more. Hitler never had anything against most Slavs, the Ukrainians had many members in the SS, same with many Slavs. He was only into killing the Tatars and mixed Slavs. The Polish highlanders were known to be liked by Hitler. Most of the "anti-Slav" and "anti-Catholicism" of Hitler was largely abridged in Hitler's Table Talks. It was largely all edited and abridged by Martin Bormann (renown anti-Christian and anti-Slav), then done so again in many of the translations, most notably by Francois Genoud who added in a volley of anti-christian rhetoric to it. This isn't to say that the whole of it is hogwash or anything, but you do really have to come at it with a skeptic mindset as it's certainly not the true words of Hitler by any means. If another book or statement conflicts with something in it, then I'd say go with whatever is in the other source. Hitler already had a treaty with the Soviets which the SOVIETS broke. Please read the second book by Hitler, It will give you a much deeper insight to his view on America, Slavs, and many other things.

 

[Jack O'Neill]

If Japan hadn't attacked pearl harbour it wouldn't have given FDR a full force reason to enter the war with full support, he would have most likely failed his attempts like before and only could support the USSR and UK. Now if the troops from the USA didn't enter Germany would have been able to keep a much stronger hold, and probably last out, and by that time FDR would have been died most likely, and then a regime helpful to the National Socialist Germany might have been setup. If not they probably wouldn't have entered the war still. Germany at this point probably would have won. This would in effect change must of history, but one big point is no Israel and no Middle-eastern wars, least not these ones.

The Japanese invasion of the Philippines (which was an American commonwealth back then) would have been just as valid a casus belli, as would repeated German attacks against American Lend-Lease convoys in the Atlantic. At worst, these would only delay the United States' entry into World War II by a few weeks.

Also, like many people in these parts, you severely underestimate the sheer might of the Soviet Union. Germany was screwed the moment it decided to invade the Soviet Union, as it simply lacked both the manpower and the industrial capacity needed to overcome its foe; its defeat was not a matter of if, but when. If the United States doesn't enter in the European theatre, history wouldn't really change that much. Harry Truman still succeeds FDR, Germany still loses, and Great Britain still grants independence to the Palestinian mandate.

 

[Livewire]

I really am trying to understand why my post was removed as "disgusting". All I did was insult Das Kapital, and it's lies. I don't want to get in trouble o_0

It's unnecessary and flamey, that's why. Not to mention the "Lies of the Zionist expansion" tidbit thrown in there is delving into a whole different issue that I don't want brought up by you or anyone else for that matter. This thread has nothing to do with your "notions" of Das Kapital or whatever, so leave it out of your posts here. Thanks.

 

[Anthraxinsoup]

It's unnecessary and flamey, that's why. Not to mention the "Lies of the Zionist expansion" tidbit thrown in there is delving into a whole different issue that I don't want brought up by you or anyone else for that matter. This thread has nothing to do with your "notions" of Das Kapital or whatever, so leave it out of your posts here. Thanks.

I don't see what how it is "flamey", but I'll try and stay on tack. I was just critiquing Das Kapital cause he seems to be in favour of the USSR, which horribly ravaged the land I was born(and raised in), Poland.

 

[aguinn99]

About Pearl Harbor, the USA would have not gotten into the war, and I'm not quite sure what that would do, Though, in theory, it would help the Germans And others) win the war, because the US helped Canada and all those other places.

I really dont know what would happen if Hiroshima and Nagasaki never got bombed......



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