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YGO: Individual Card Discussion

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  • 4,227
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    Zeno_the_dark_one said:
    how do u guys stad on ancient gear golem, soldier, and beast?

    Stay on topic...

    Anyway, Frostweaver, do you mean like a reusable Exiled Force? I think we already have something like that, but better...oh yeah, KARMA CUT (my sugestion for next card)!!

    Seriously, though, how much weaker is it than TIV?
     

    MegaDitto

    Windsor ™
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    Ichapokemr said:
    Stay on topic...

    Anyway, Frostweaver, do you mean like a reusable Exiled Force? I think we already have something like that, but better...oh yeah, KARMA CUT (my sugestion for next card)!!

    Seriously, though, how much weaker is it than TIV?
    We had Dark Core before that.

    YGO: Individual Card Discussion


    This is what he is talking about. It's 1 new improvment for Rat Control to me.

    Cyber Gymnastics
    Stats: Warrior/Effect LV4 ATK/800 DEF/1800
    EOJ-JP006
    Translation: From your hand discard 1 card. Destroy one of your opponent`s faced-up attack position monster on the field. This effect can only be done once per turn.
     
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    Ah, I see...and I forgot about Dark Core (except Karma Cut has an extra Nobleman-like effect).

    ...It's relatively good in defense...but the effect should be more than once per turn.

    6/10
     

    Frostweaver

    Ancient + Prehistoric
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    If it can be used more than once per turn, then I'm sticking this right into chaos deck >_>;

    Once again, we must address these two cards against each other.

    Jinzo vs Mobius the Frost Monarch.

    What's the changes since last time?

    -Mirror Force is back, but it can't chain to Mobius anyway.
    -Vampire/Phoenix usage goes skyrocket, and therefore, *Bottomless* went up to dramatic account of 2 at the cost of even sakuretsu armor.

    People are whispering back and forth about using Jinzo to avoid Bottomless Traphole. Any comments?
     
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    I still vote Royal Decree to settle this argument...

    but I still consider Jinzo better than Mobius.
     

    Frostweaver

    Ancient + Prehistoric
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    I wonder why Jinzo is on the banlist, now that you've mentioned. Either Mobius also gets on the ban list for fairness, or Jinzo get off the banlist together with Mobius. This is so much like a Sangan vs. Witch fairness issue to me. Either both Sangan and Witch die, or both are banned...

    Consistancy is lacking?
     
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    As far as Jinzo vs. Mobius goes, it goes back to why Breaker isn't going to be banned: Mobius requires a normal summon (a tribute to boot). Jinzo does not. That's the main reason why.

    As far as Sangan vs. Witch, Witch can bring out most widely-used beatsticiks that Sangan can not (GAF, GEAF, Blade Knight, Reflect Bounder, etc).
     

    MegaDitto

    Windsor ™
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    Frostweaver said:
    If it can be used more than once per turn, then I'm sticking this right into chaos deck >_>;

    Once again, we must address these two cards against each other.

    Jinzo vs Mobius the Frost Monarch.

    What's the changes since last time?

    -Mirror Force is back, but it can't chain to Mobius anyway.
    -Vampire/Phoenix usage goes skyrocket, and therefore, *Bottomless* went up to dramatic account of 2 at the cost of even sakuretsu armor.

    People are whispering back and forth about using Jinzo to avoid Bottomless Traphole. Any comments?
    Zaikiro said:
    I seen enough of those on Pojo TCG Player, Yugiohetc ,etc >_>. It seems to them that desruction is stronger than negation in this format.(agian)
    .

    I agree.^

    Mobius in general but they can both work great in the side deck no matter what meta you have. It just depends.

    A card that is good in either format.

    YGO: Individual Card Discussion
     
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    ...I knew that this was coming sometime......

    This thing can work wonders (I've seen it save several people from Burners/Mills), or it can be a wasted card. It depends on the timing. I argue that this was one of the reasons why they banned Cyber Jar (fill the field with effect monsters, then use it).

    With Nobleman back to 2 per deck, though, there will be a decision to make--Nobleman or Ceasefire (or Mystics). Each one has perks and downs, so it'll depend on the meta.

    8/10
     

    Lunar6000

    Master Trainer
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    Im sorry but Jinzo is forever better than Mobius, though Mobius should be limited to one.. people are far underestimating Jinzo still. Ive always known two noblemans were good.
     

    MegaDitto

    Windsor ™
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    Lunar6000 said:
    Im sorry but Jinzo is forever better than Mobius, though Mobius should be limited to one.. people are far underestimating Jinzo still. Ive always known two noblemans were good.
    IMO, Please explain. Mobius does not does deserve a restriction, in any way, neither of the monarch does. Mobius being maindecked just seemed like a format fad. Like Lightning Vortex. Jinzo may be better but that is just though.

    2 Nobleman of Crossout will change the game in ways, though Flip-Flop-Control is still active. Most people nowdays have 1 Nobleman in the main deck and 1 in the side.
    Mystic Swordsman Lv2 has been started to be used more instead. Mabye due to the fact tthat Mystic Swordsman Lv2 can be searched by Renforicment of the Army, which is useable by 2 Magician of Faith.

    No matter what way they are compared through everything there will still be a debate.

    And welcome to PC.
     

    Lunar6000

    Master Trainer
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    Mobius is being overused and its effect is just like breakers only its a sacrifice, and it hits 2 and it gets priority... something breaker does not get with its counter.

    Mobius deserves to be dropped to 1... thats just my opinion, we will see what happens next list.
     

    MegaDitto

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    Then Mobius requires a tribute and since Breaker is a 4 star monster it has more speed. A resrtiction to 1 is not necessary . Aalso Breaker's option to use it's counter. Do you play?
     

    Frostweaver

    Ancient + Prehistoric
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    Mobius is fine. Maybe if you really want, it can be down to 2, but nobody uses more than 2 anyway even if we include the sidedeck. Jinzo is down to 1 because after it's summoned, it's relatively more difficult to take down than Mobius. Traps can't be used at all, so you're down to monster effects and spells to get it. On the other hand, though Mobius is destruction and not negation, and it can target spells on top of traps, it's easier to destroy. You can set a widespread or sakuretsu after Mobius is summoned already and destroy it that way. Also, like all the Monarchs, Tsukuyomi can destroy Mobius by herself, while Tsukuyomi will be needing a bit of help to get Jinzo. Jinzo's effect is reusable through recursion, but Mobius is only a beatstick if it gets revived, so that's also a plus for Jinzo.

    For all the reasons above, Jinzo is at 1 while Mobius isn't restricted.

    Plus, personally I think that we shouldn't talk of restricting monsters so lightly unless it has the power to turn the tide for the entire metagame, generates card/field advantages easily, or if that one monster can completely shutdown a decktype.

    Mobius can't do any of those. It's in many decks but it's not guarantee loss if you don't have it either, unlike BLS back then. It doesn't generate card/field advantage too easily, because it requires a tribute. Also it's only a 2 for 3 if both s/t can't be chained, and successfully destroys a monster on top of it (most of the time it's 2 for 2 as one of the s/t will chain to Mobius so it won't go wasted.) Mobius obviously doesn't shut down an entire decktype, seeing how last format a burn deck made it to Top 8 against all those Mobius out there.

    Multiple Jinzos on the other hand have the power to turn the entire metagame by changing a lot of decks to a "3 staple traps only" type of thing (or something to the line of extremely low trap count.) Multiple Jinzo spells CHAOS *pun.*
     

    Frostweaver

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    And the only reason why we won't have Torrential Tribute in a deck is because...

    a) we're poor and can't get our filthy hands on one
    b) some special decks don't require monster destruction, such as some, but not all, OTK/FTK.

    Royal Decree decks still use it along with the 3 copies of Royal Decree (3 Decree, MF, TT, and may include CotH as the 6th trap). Alternate win decks use it too, even exodia in order to secure field control...

    Nothing much to say. Better have a darn well reason for not using it except "it's too expensive."
     
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    Frostweaver said:
    Better have a darn well reason for not using it except "it's too expensive."

    How about "it requires a summon and wipes out your own monsters to boot, which requires either something along the lines of Scapegoat for protection from any follow-up Special Summons or a Sangan to search for a worthwhile monster, such as Don Zaloog"?

    That is why MF shall always beat out TT...as long as MF isn't banned.

    ...$10 for a Structure Deck is too much?
     

    Frostweaver

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    Ichapokemr said:
    How about "it requires a summon and wipes out your own monsters to boot, which requires either something along the lines of Scapegoat for protection from any follow-up Special Summons or a Sangan to search for a worthwhile monster, such as Don Zaloog"?

    How about flip your Dekoichi to draw a card, chain your TT to yourself like that, wipe their field, then summon your own Don Zaloog to go on the offensive?

    Now that maybe too ideal. How about a more realistic situation.

    The opponent's steath bird is pecking you off every turn together with a huge burning son of a rock on your side of the field. Surely Ichapokemr will gladly go for a lost in card advantage by throwing a Kycoo down to activate his own Torrential Tribute. Yes he lose a monster and leaves an open field in terms of monster, but it's a gain anyway.


    Mirror Force is strictly for defensive purposes. Torrential Tribute can be flexible on both offensive and defensive. Mirror Force can only work against an aggressor who attacks, while Torrential Tribute can be useful in many ways of its own, even against decks that do not attack at all (or, will only attack via Mobius and Jinzo... oh right Torrential can at least wipe out Mobius to take everything down with it instead of standing still to be destroyed too.)

    The two are equal in my book.
     

    MegaDitto

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    Dun-Dun-Dun

    Battle of the staple trap cards.

    Torrential has more combos than Mirror Force. But Mirror Force has more of the godly topdeck side when your opponent will attack for game. It depends for the deck but Mirror Force is used in general more.

    Also since when Torrential was released it did not revive a restriction like Mirror Force on it's releases. Mirror Force was releasesd as a staple at first. Torrenital as tech.

    Torrential has more chainability since it can be activated either turn.

    They are 2 different types of field control. Both godly in their own ways.

    New Card:

    YGO: Individual Card Discussion
     
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    Frostweaver said:
    The opponent's steath bird is pecking you off every turn together with a huge burning son of a rock on your side of the field. Surely Ichapokemr will gladly go for a lost in card advantage by throwing a Kycoo down to activate his own Torrential Tribute. Yes he lose a monster and leaves an open field in terms of monster, but it's a gain anyway.

    Actually, I'd just throw down Creature Swap or Enemy Controller. Neither one really loses me an advantage (if you go by that--I usually don't) and I get to start burning my opponent right back.

    ...OR use a Nightmare Wheel on that Stealth Bird...OR Tsuku the Lava Golem...OR tribute it for Jinzo/Blowback and start wiping cards out...there are a lot of better choices that Torrential...

    Actually, I could also use a card that I remembered about earlier: Needle Ceiling. No summon required and wipes out face-ups, which can leave you with at least SOME advantage, provided that all your opponent's monsters just went face-up (Swords, CEASEFIRE).

    But I digress.

    Ah, Exiled Force. Another card that had to show up sooner or later...except I thought that it already was done...meh, whatever. Anyway, works wonders in the right deck, in the right situation; for example, the situation that Frostweaver suggested above--summon Exiled Force, tribute to lose the Stealth Bird, then either special it back to lose the golem or attack with the golem for a large chunk out of your opponent's LP.

    There's a reason why I considered this the anti-BLS: cheap way to remove that opponent's wall protecting them, instant 1-1 non-loss (maybe even advantage based on what was equipped to that monster), but not always too good as a topdeck.
     
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