Atheism

[Erin]

I believe when God stated He made us in "His image", that the text meant in the image of goodness. Humans were good before Eve consumed a portion of the apple that allowed her and Adam to think sinfully.

That's the original context I got out of it as well, but a linguist of mine (who reinforced it from a book he'd read by a religious philosopher) asserted that given the historical context, the phrase is literally meant to mean that God made man in his image, meaning both physically && mentally (this usage of the word "man" referring to the male sex).

From what I've seen, the use of the word "man" to refer to the human race is an anomoly which exists only in the English language. In my mother tongue of Afrikaans, the word that translates to the English word "humanity" is the same as the English word for "mankind". The reference to the male sex equating to all of the human race isn't even present. The same exists in isiXhosa && Zulu, two other languages spoken in my country. Having lernt German in school, I've found the same thing to exist in that language as well.

Another example of this is present in the United States Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal..." In historical context, this literally meant males only. White, Protestant, land-owning males, to be more specific.

It's only been recently that the word "man" in the English language has come to be similar to "humanity". That being said, if the linguists are to be believed, the original writers of Genesis literally meant that God made man (as in the male, Adam) in his image, in all respects.

(Women were just the upgraded version. =D)

 

[Izanagi]

For those who say religion makes no sense, how do you see it logical that an explosion came out of literally nowhere and started everything?

 

[Yusshin]

For those who say religion makes no sense, how do you see it logical that an explosion came out of literally nowhere and started everything?

There are other things that are odd like that, too. The following are things we learnt in the 1900s:

- How humans and animals reproduce (embryo, sperm, bones before tissue, etc.)
- How wind helps with the rain cycle
- How at the bottom of the sea, there are creatures who create their own light
- How the universe is always expanding

Yet, all of this was written 1,400 years ago in a book that is very, very detailed about it. A book spread by a man who memorized it without even knowing how to read or write.

That's the original context I got out of it as well, but a linguist of mine (who reinforced it from a book he'd read by a religious philosopher) asserted that given the historical context, the phrase is literally meant to mean that God made man in his image, meaning both physically && mentally (this usage of the word "man" referring to the male sex).

Although, that religious philospher is just stating what he believes. That man is but a man. I believe that he merely stated his own opinion about the text, and that it shouldn't be taken to heart really. Knowing the complexity of the Holy Books, it is quite possible that the use of "His image" in this section still referred to the goodness of God. After all, the most recent of Holy Books can't even be translated properly from its original version. There are a lot of translation errors because the text is just too profound, too amazing. The book can't even be editted because any modifications would be easily spotted. If most people of that language (Arabic) can't even reproduce their own language, how can someone be expected to translate it properly?

That's beside the point, though. The philosopher is allowed his opinion; the title of "philosopher" doesn't mean he's necessarily right, though. He's still a man who's speculating. I still remain with the belief that the text meant in "His image" meaning the goodness of God, and not that God was literally a man that we see before us.

 

[OMGitzzCourtney]

For those who say religion makes no sense, how do you see it logical that an explosion came out of literally nowhere and started everything?

Makes more sense to me than religion. :/
Stuff like that happens in the solar systems all the time.

OT:
Me, personally, am an on and off atheist...I can't seem to make up my mind as to whether I believe in a religion or not.

 

[Izanagi]

Derr hurr, makes more sense to me, durr herr.

Still doesn't explain how that makes sense. Plus, didn't the Big Bang create the solar systems? How does something that only happened once happen all the time?

 

[Tinhead Bruce]

For those who say religion makes no sense, how do you see it logical that an explosion came out of literally nowhere and started everything?

The Big Bang did not come from nowhere. It came from a piece of matter so infinitesimally small that one cannot even begin to imagine it. Just pointing out that there's a difference between 0.0000.... forever and 0.

The one thing I find frustrating about both religion and science (they aren't mutually exclusive by the way, as so many believe) is their great need to explain everything, and provide a rational reasoning. Those who are religious have an answer to everything (God), and scientists have a need to understand absolutely everything and and not content with the fact that some things just absolutely cannot be explained.

That didn't necessarily come out the way I wanted it to, but I'm sure that even if I edited it for a year I wouldn't be perfectly happy with it.

Anyways, as to my beliefs, I'm happy to say that I legitimately don't have a firm stance on religion. I think that I believe in a higher power, or God, but I have no idea what God did or did not do. I have no problem accepting some sort of theory that God created the Big Bang, or evolution. That's where I think people get caught up. I believe that vocal minorities on every side muddy the water for everyone else, and create an unreasonable view that you have to be on side or the other. If God does in fact exist, it doesn't mean that all the theories that scientists have come up with are false. Many who are blinded by their theism or anti-theism do not like that, but I believe that that could possibly be the best explanation. Anyways, this whole thing may not make sense, but just ask if you want me to elaborate or something.

 

[Erin]

Although, that religious philospher is just stating what he believes. That man is but a man. I believe that he merely stated his own opinion about the text, and that it shouldn't be taken to heart really. Knowing the complexity of the Holy Books, it is quite possible that the use of "His image" in this section still referred to the goodness of God. After all, the most recent of Holy Books can't even be translated properly from its original version. There are a lot of translation errors because the text is just too profound, too amazing. The book can't even be editted because any modifications would be easily spotted. If most people of that language (Arabic) can't even reproduce their own language, how can someone be expected to translate it properly?

This is basically the centrepiece of my argument. None of us have the ability to say we understand the true intention of any of those books, nor the intention of God.

I've seen truth in every religion I've ever encountered. I've also seen absolute bogus in every religion I've ever encountered.

Mistranslations are all too common, even moreso now, as the original Aramaic/Arabic texts are now gone. Even today, we have words that don't exist in other languages && literal translations make no sense unless the speaker is fully bilingual. As Arabic && Aramaic texts were translated to Greek, then to Latin, then to the languages of Europe && eventually Africa, there's so much room for error that entire passages could have lost their original intent.

If there's one thing that's common though, it's that the same, most basic concept of right && wrong exists in all religions. The most general sense of morality && living a virtuous life... that, I believe, is the God-inspired notion that found its way into the various world religions, with only stories && names changing to fit different cultures.

A devotion to those ideals, I feel, is more righteous than devotion to any one religious sect.

 

[Yusshin]

If there's one thing that's common though, it's that the same, most basic concept of right && wrong exists in all religions. The most general sense of morality && living a virtuous life... that, I believe, is the God-inspired notion that found its way into the various world religions, with only stories && names changing to fit different cultures.

That's the amazing thing. The biggest religions show what's right and what's wrong, and that's what formed our basic laws of today. There's really not much of a difference in their stories, either, or the morals and values they teach. We should take the similarities and the divine things from the books, rather than use the differences to hurt other people or differ ourselves from other human beings. No one is better than anyone; no religion is better than another. I firmly believe we all worship the same God (assuming you're religious), but we have different ways of worshipping Him - perhaps cultural differences came into effect, I'm not sure.

We should all just respect each other. I think that's what it comes down to, really. Respect everyone's opinions and ideals.

 

[Sneeze]

For those who say religion makes no sense, how do you see it logical that an explosion came out of literally nowhere and started everything?

Yet, you see it as perfectly possible that a god can come out of no-where and create something out of nothing?

And the thing is, not everything does make sense, there are some things in science we may never know, but the same can be said about religion. And to be perfectly honest, I like it that way, if we knew everything life would be boring.

 

[Izanagi]

Well I don't think he came out of nowhere. He's always been there.

 

[Eternal Nightmare]

Well I consider myself an atheist but there are time when I elaborate on things like how did life for everything on earth began ya know. I believe strongly in the theory that we, human beings, have evolved from simpler life forms but where did those lifeforms come from ehham no one will really know the answer to a question like that but I disagree with the saying some divine deity made life ya know. My mom told me to follow whatever I want to believe in life and to me everything must have proof. I also feel that's it unecessary to be bound by a certain code of conduct or rules in life, like, its your life make the most of it. Have fun, live, love, laugh will ya. Peoples children curse up storms in my school but the next second they call themselves quote unquote christians and gods children...to me it seems that are not restricting themselves to the rules that are set for them and that is what life really is...minus government laws lol

 

[Erin]

That's the amazing thing. The biggest religions show what's right and what's wrong, and that's what formed our basic laws of today. There's really not much of a difference in their stories, either, or the morals and values they teach.

Perhaps not in the 3 big monotheistic religions, the "brothers of the book". But what I find fascinating is how those three religions, when compared to the tribal traditions down here, have such starkly different stories, but an identical code of ethics... that's consistency in human conscious, which I see as God-inspired.

I firmly believe we all worship the same God (assuming you're religious), but we have different ways of worshipping Him

Now that you bring it up, I'm not entirely sure if I'm what people'd call religious. I've visited Churches, Mosques, Synagogues, && other houses of worship, but as more of an observer than an attendee. I like a lot of what the people have had to say, but my feelings on organized religion remain the same. I feel that the fact that I try to live my life virtuously is more "religious" than going to Church every day && singing Bible songs for an hour, then blantantly disregarding the teachings focused on for the rest of the week. But that's just me.

perhaps cultural differences came into effect, I'm not sure.

That's what I believe it to be. Chrisitians were culturally oppressed by Romans at the time of the New Testament, thus you have oppressors such as the "Anti-Christ" bearing resemblence to the Roman occupational governments && emperors. Muslims were physically oppressed by the powers-that-were in the Arab peninsula, thus such emphasis on defending one's right to worship is placed in Islam. Tribal traditions here were allowed to develop prior to the arrival of we the Europeans, thus emphasis on the human relationship with nature, rather than more secular outside forces, take priority. The Ba'hai faith is more modern && it developed across the globe rather than with one specific ethnic group, thus a global perspective on spirtuality is practiced rather than the readings && followings of a specific people.

But in the end, though, they all have the same core beliefs. That's what I follow.

 

[Sneeze]

Well I don't think he came out of nowhere. He's always been there.

Well you could argue that the particles that exploded have always been there, they just didn't meet the right conditions for a while until the big bang.

And if he has always been there, why did he wait until a certain point before creating the universe?

 

[Yusshin]

Now that you bring it up, I'm not entirely sure if I'm what people'd call religious. I've visited Churches, Mosques, Synagogues, && other houses of worship, but as more of an observer than an attendee. I like a lot of what the people have had to say, but my feelings on organized religion remain the same. I feel that the fact that I try to live my life virtuously is more "religious" than going to Church every day && singing Bible songs for an hour, then blantantly disregarding the teachings focused on for the rest of the week. But that's just me.

I went to church most of my life, actually, before I became a Muslim. I've never visited a mosque.

I, too, feel that by living your life the way doing charitable, kind things, and looking out for your fellow man while being loyal to what you believe in, is the way God intended for the books to be used. I don't think He minds if you don't go to church or a mosque on a specific day. I think He just wants you to recognize Him as being there, having always been there after all, and just to live in a fashion He might name divine.

As long as you don't fall prey to satanic references, I think God will be pleased with you :]

Also, when I say "you", it might be a bit confusing... "You" in this sense means the general human population. In French, we have "vous" to detail that, but we don't have that in English, so it's a bit confusing @-@ I mean mankind, though, and not YOU directly lol If that makes sense.

Sneeze:

That's a question you can ask Him when you pass on. No human knows the answer to that.

 

[FaithInMe]

Now, to get into why God "lets" bad things happens. When Adam and Eve disobeyed Him, He cursed the world so that they would have to work to farm their crops.

Not true, god (if one actually exists) is taught as being benevolent.
The very meaning of benevolence contradicts the idea of invoking a curse on humanity.

Also, Lucifer was mentioned earlier.
Lucifer literally translates as "light bringer", why oh why is the light bringer the bad guy in christian religion.
It is said that god created heaven and the angels before the earth and humanity, and that he asked the angels to love humanity more than him. Lucifer disagreed with this and refused to love an imperfect race more than his father. Thus being condemned to rule over hell for eternity for essentially being a rebellious child.

Another thing that makes no sense, the concept that eating an apple gave humanity the knowledge of good and evil.
Before that happened they believed there was only good.
Lets have a think, what is good? If thats all there is then it isnt anything at all.
You cant have good without evil. So as far as that goes, to begin with there was complete, childlike naivety.
Seriously, religion cant handle the big bang theory, which I believe recently has been completely proven and re-enacted in Geneva, but is completely fine with eating fruit gives you the knowledge of good and evil thus creating original sin?

As far as my own beliefs go, I dont believe in god. To me he's like an invisible friend for adults.
In saying that, I find the concept of religion intriguing.
Ive read the bible over and over.
Ive read the qur'an (a translated version obviously) a number of times.
Ive read buddhist scripture, although I disagree with buddhism being considered a religion. Its not. Not really. If anyone needs explanation Ill be happy to oblige.
As far as Im concerned, religion was originally created as the earliest form of governing a people. It offered rules to live by but it also gave people something to believe in.
It just got more and more warped by different races as time went on. New religions were created, old religions were lost. Whatever.

 

[Erin]

I went to church most of my life, actually, before I became a Muslim. I've never visited a mosque.

There's a mosque in my town... I've visited there once or twice. One thing I've noticed is that, contrary to how they're portrayed in the media as a result of radicalist sects, the Muslims I've encountered have been much more accepting, tolerant, and willing to consider && converse with those who have opposing views. I was accepted as a guest there && had a nearly hour long discussion with the Imam after services, whereas two of the three churches I attended && tried to ask questions at scorned me && gave me a "wth-are-you-even-doing-here" approach.

Also, when I say "you", it might be a bit confusing... "You" in this sense means the general human population. In French, we have "vous" to detail that, but we don't have that in English, so it's a bit confusing @-@ I mean mankind, though, and not YOU directly lol If that makes sense.

We have the same thing in Afrikaans. "Julle" is our equivalent to the French "Vous". English is one of the very few languages I've met where there isn't a word for plural "You", but I know a lot of people in the U.S. use "Y'all", or say "You guys" as if it was one word.

 

[Yusshin]

Also, Lucifer was mentioned earlier.
Lucifer literally translates as "light bringer", why oh why is the light bringer the bad guy in christian religion.
It is said that god created heaven and the angels before the earth and humanity, and that he asked the angels to love humanity more than him. Lucifer disagreed with this and refused to love an imperfect race more than his father. Thus being condemned to rule over hell for eternity for essentially being a rebellious child.

Actually, the Christian version is that Lucifer was an angel created by God who refused to kneel before humans. He was extremely vein and was banished by God to Hell, where Lucifer currently rules. God is not Lucifer's father. According to Christianity, the only "son" God has is Jesus (and if you want to broaden on some of the things taught, Christianity also teaches that every human is the daughter and son of God, but I don't believe that's to be taken literally).

In the Qu'ran, Lucifer is a Djinn who also refused to kneel before humans because he did not believe humans were better than Djinns. He told God that he was going to prove Him wrong - that humans were actually evil at heart, and not benevolent as God said. He was granted eternal life as to try and prove God wrong, while God looked down on the foolish Djinn. God rules over Hell, not Lucifer. Lucifer is merely a presence now who seeks to corrupt humanity with atheism and, I'm assuming, polytheism. He uses many resources to attempt to corrupt us as to prove the Almighty Creator incorrect (the media, being the biggest one).

Contrary to popular belief, Djinns are not "demons". There are good Djinns, and there are bad Djinns. Djinns generally even believe in God. It was a separate race which lacked intelligence, but acquired mystical capabilities instead. Humans were deemed the intelligent species, while angels are but mere slaves of God - slaves incapable of going against God's will and incapable of thinking for themselves.

Same basic story, but a bit different from each other at the same time. Lucifer is the "misleading light in the darkness", the bringer of false light. He is therefore the Anti-Christ of both the Bible and the Qu'ran.

I haven't read the Torah or heard anything about it, so I can't state anything about it.

So as far as that goes, to begin with there was complete, childlike naivety.

Indeed, and that is why Eve was so easily deceived by the satanic reptile. The naiveness of a child is the innocence before knowing what's bad. It is after she consumed the apple that her naivety was lost.

Seriously, religion cant handle the big bang theory

Although it was written 1,400 years ago that the Big Bang had happened, and that it was the "separating of the Heavens and the universe into two unique places". It is also stated that the universe is always growing ("expanding"), something discovered in the 1,900s.

All of that was explained specifically in the Qu'ran (I can't remember it being in the Bible, unfortunately). Maybe it seems farfetch'd, and perhaps you see us as gullible, but it makes sense to us. The fact it was stated as a reason in the 600s, way before speculation on the subject, just re-enforces that.

There's a mosque in my town... I've visited there once or twice. One thing I've noticed is that, contrary to how they're portrayed in the media as a result of radicalist sects, the Muslims I've encountered have been much more accepting, tolerant, and willing to consider && converse with those who have opposing views. I was accepted as a guest there && had a nearly hour long discussion with the Imam after services, whereas two of the three churches I attended && tried to ask questions at scorned me && gave me a "wth-are-you-even-doing-here" approach.

Indeed, from my experience with both religions, Christianity is a religion that followers believe they must force on others, and scorn those who disbelieve them. That's why in history, Christians are the worst for converting people and killing those who opposed (in Canada, Christian Europeans kidnapped aboriginals and turned them Christian; in America, there was a huge Indian manslaughter because of different beliefs). In Islam, we are opposed to that, and we are taught to accept everyone's views and to respect everyone. An example would be when Arabia took over Spain for 800 years. Are the Spanish Muslim today? They could have been, but no, the majority are still Catholic because the Muslims never forced it on them.

Of course, there are good people and bad people in every religion and country, as are there the rare extremists in every religion on Earth. I'm sure some Muslims forced their religion on others, and I'm sure some Christians refuse to force it and tolerate others' religious choices. The examples above are just some major, historical examples of tolerancy differences between Christianity and Islam.

 

[icomeanon6]

There is exactly as much proof that God exists as there is that anyone besides you (yes, you personally, whoever is reading this) is self-aware. You have no way of proving that anyone besides you is conscious. It is equally likely that they are all nothing but a mass of cells operating entirely by scientific laws and not by their own volition. The assumption that there is a creator is no more absurd than your assumption that everyone else is as conscious as you are.

That being said, I am a Catholic, and mostly for pragmatic reasons. I have thought too much and too hard about the logistics of a being like God to have any definite answer concerning his existence and true nature. Regardless, I still tend to believe in him because I consider the stability of my family to be more important than my juvenile questioning about the nature of the universe. My parents worked too hard providing a good upbringing for me and my brothers for me to be to go and break their hearts because I doubt aspects of our faith. I don't know how closely I'll follow the church once I'm an adult, but for now I think I owe my parents enough respect to believe what they say for now.

 

[FaithInMe]

Actually, the Christian version is that Lucifer was an angel created by God who refused to kneel before humans because he did not believe humans were better than Djinns. He was extremely vein and was banished by God to Hell, where Lucifer currently rules. God is not Lucifer's father. According to Christianity, the only "son" God has is Jesus (and if you want to broaden on some of the things taught, Christianity also teaches that every human is the daughter and son of God, but I don't believe that's to be taken literally).

In the Qu'ran, Lucifer is a Djinn who also refused to kneel before humans. He told God that he was going to prove Him wrong - that humans were actually evil at heart, and not benevolent as God said. He was granted eternal life as to try and prove God wrong, while God looked down on the foolish Djinn. God rules over Hell, not Lucifer. Lucifer is merely a presence now who seeks to corrupt humanity with atheism and, I'm assuming, polytheism. He uses many resources to attempt to corrupt us as to prove the Almighty Creator incorrect (the media, being the biggest one).

Same basic story, but a bit different from each other at the same time. Lucifer is the "misleading light in the darkness", the bringer of false light. He is therefore the Anti-Christ of both the Bible and the Qu'ran.

I haven't read the Torah or heard anything about it, so I can't state anything about it.



Indeed, and that is why Eve was so easily deceived by the satanic reptile. The naiveness of a child is the innocence before knowing what's bad. It is after she consumed the apple that her naivety was lost.



Although it was written 1,400 years ago that the Big Bang had happened, and that it was the "separating of the Heavens and the universe into two unique places". It is also stated that the universe is always growing ("expanding"), something discovered in the 1,900s.

All of that was explained specifically in the Qu'ran (I can't remember it being in the Bible, unfortunately). Maybe it seems farfetch'd, and perhaps you see us as gullible, but it makes sense to us. The fact it was stated as a reason in the 600s, way before speculation on the subject, just re-enforces that.



Indeed, from my experience with both religions, Christianity is a religion that followers believe they must force on others, and scorn those who disbelieve them. That's why in history, Christians are the worst for converting people and killing those who opposed (in Canada, Christian Europeans kidnapped aboriginals and turned them Christian; in America, there was a huge Indian manslaughter because of different beliefs). In Islam, we are opposed to that, and we are taught to accept everyone's views and to respect everyone. An example would be when Arabia took over Spain for 800 years. Are the Spanish Muslim today? They could have been, but no, the majority are still Catholic because the Muslims never forced it on them.

Of course, there are good people and bad people in every religion and country, as are there the rare extremists in every religion on Earth. I'm sure some Muslims forced their religion on others, and I'm sure some Christians refuse to force it and tolerate others' religious choices. The examples above are just some major, historical examples of tolerancy differences between Christianity and Islam.

I didnt mean father as a literal term.
Its more as in a creator sense that its used.
And what you said about Lucifer is basically the same thing as what I said.
Im actually studying christian Theology, so there really is very little that can be argued against me with as far as that goes.

Im also of the belief that something cannot be created from nothing.
You cant build a house when no materials exist.
Same concept, but on a more universal level.
Science has claimed the moment of creation. Thats just the way it is Im afraid.

Also, religion has been the major source of all controversy and intolerance in the world.
Almost every major war has had something to do with religion in its back story.
Racial intolerance is, not to a large extent, preached by many religions.
Its also the major source of sexism and fascism.

 

[Neo Pikachu]

I am a confirmed Roman Catholic, though I don't practice all of the things that religion expects, such was trying to convert non-believers. I believe that as human beings, we should each have the right to make our own choices with regards to faith, as long as the practices of that faith do not encourage harm to society. With that in mind, I am highly against religious fanatics that think killing "infidels" or anyone that doesn't follow their religion through destructive and deadly means is acceptable and even encouraged. Meanwhile, I don't believe applying force upon people that clearly don't want to practice the faith will ever work in a genuine, spiritual way.

As for why I'm Christian, I feel that deep within my heart and soul, following the word of God and Jesus Christ is the right thing to do, even if not everyone agrees with it. I don't pray often, mostly because I'm already grateful for all that God has already given me.

As for understanding science, I just feel that science is the collection of recognized characteristics and patterns of the elements of this world to be used as a tool for mankind's benefit and understanding. Very often, it just seems like to me, there are instances where science tries to go beyond its applicable bounds, make assumptions, and take itself out of context. I do believe there is a spiritual side to life, and I feel that because science can't tap into or understand this, it simply assumes it doesn't exist.