Atheism

[Yusshin]

I didnt mean father as a literal term.
Its more as in a creator sense that its used.
And what you said about Lucifer is basically the same thing as what I said.
Im actually studying christian Theology, so there really is very little that can be argued against me with as far as that goes.

Im also of the belief that something cannot be created from nothing.
You cant build a house when no materials exist.
Same concept, but on a more universal level.
Science has claimed the moment of creation. Thats just the way it is Im afraid.

Also, religion has been the major source of all controversy and intolerance in the world.
Almost every major war has had something to do with religion in its back story.
Racial intolerance is, not to a large extent, preached by many religions.
Its also the major source of sexism and fascism.

Ah, okay. I thought you meant it literally lol xD

And you seem more like the alchemist-type. To create something, you need a basic material. If not, you can't make anything. I'm sure God being all-powerful and all could breach that theory of life, though. In my opinion, it is as the books say: if God wants something, He merely says "be" and it "is".

And it really is too bad that the intolerancy between religions caused such bad things to happen. I don't believe it was meant to be like that; interpretations and the backgrounds of individuals is what caused such issues. Power is also very enticing to most of the population. As for sexism, that's also how you interpret it. At a first-glance, the Qu'ran may seem to preach that women are lesser beings, but disregarding the many, many translation errors on the issue, the prophet actually preaches acceptance of all. He ended slavery within Muslim societies, and he stated quite clearly that the best Muslim is the Muslim who treats their wife with upmost respect. The translations aren't very kind towards the women aspect, especially since some Muslims reportedly owned "harems." Modern-day Muslims don't actually approve of that at all. 99.99% of us are monogamous, but even for that .01% who aren't, it is no worse than the Christian who has an affair with a woman or two behind his wife or girlfriend's back (which, not targetting Christians exactly, can happen with any religious follower).

It's just too bad that the books are written like riddles a bit. Some things are straight-forward, but other things aren't as clear, and it causes these differences to sprout up and cause intolerance, wars, etc.

Makes me sad ):

 

[FaithInMe]

I noticed a few people have noted they are catholics and then used the word christian.
Completely different, guys.
Catholics and Christians have entirely different views and interpretations of the bible, and thus form different sects from the same original concept.

Which one do you wanna be? It makes no difference to me, it just is silly to call your self both, when it just isnt possible.

Edit:

I should have cleared up the sexism comment as well.
All I meant is that women, in general, arent considered nor mentioned in almost all religious scripture.
They are background characters and thus seem to have little to no input into how things came to be as they are.
With the obvious exception of the Adam and Eve story.

But yes, I believe personally that all scripture was written in a way that there is no black and white. Its been written as open to interpretation for a reason, whatever that reason is.
I cant help but think it wasnt for a good purpose though, considering our current world history.
I am, however, an anarchist at heart.

 

[Timbjerr]

The one thing I find frustrating about both religion and science (they aren't mutually exclusive by the way, as so many believe) is their great need to explain everything, and provide a rational reasoning. Those who are religious have an answer to everything (God), and scientists have a need to understand absolutely everything and and not content with the fact that some things just absolutely cannot be explained.

Anyways, as to my beliefs, I'm happy to say that I legitimately don't have a firm stance on religion. I think that I believe in a higher power, or God, but I have no idea what God did or did not do. I have no problem accepting some sort of theory that God created the Big Bang, or evolution. That's where I think people get caught up. I believe that vocal minorities on every side muddy the water for everyone else, and create an unreasonable view that you have to be on side or the other. If God does in fact exist, it doesn't mean that all the theories that scientists have come up with are false. Many who are blinded by their theism or anti-theism do not like that, but I believe that that could possibly be the best explanation. Anyways, this whole thing may not make sense, but just ask if you want me to elaborate or something.

This post pretty much sums up my entire point of view better than I could. XD

Religion as I see it is more about spiritual guidance than giving us all of the answers. I believe in evolution and the big bang. Does that mean I'm betraying my identity as a Catholic? Not at all, because I also believe that there was a higher power (God) to create the initial ball of energy that exploded into the current universe and gave it the potential for life.

I've come to find that the majority of atheists on the Internet have a huge misconception of God as this stubborn old guy in the sky that will condemn you if you don't fall into His perfect little specifications and/or some will be more than willing to protect you if you give Him a prayer every day. From my understanding (which is admittedly more of Deist point of view than a true Catholic one), He's a loving father figure who wants to watch us try to figure out our lives on our own without necessitating His interference. He's not as omnipotent as people think either. He's just kind of a distant observer judging us from afar so He can determine whether or not we're worthy to join Him in Heaven after we die.

I noticed a few people have noted they are catholics and then used the word christian.
Completely different, guys.
Catholics and Christians have entirely different views and interpretations of the bible, and thus form different sects from the same original concept.

Which one do you wanna be? It makes no difference to me, it just is silly to call your self both, when it just isnt possible.

Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. The branch of Christianity that you're thinking of is Protestantism. Two different approaches, but they both fall under the Christian umbrella as they both teach the teaching of Jesus Christ.

I hate when people fallaciously make that mistake.

 

[Yusshin]

Catholicism is a part of Christianity. You can be a Christian and a Catholic. You can be a Protestant, a Baptist, a Free Methodist, a Catholic, a Roman Catholic, etc. and it's all part of Christianity. They are but different "branches" who believe in different things a bit. For example, some believe in masturbation, and others don't. Their book is the same, though, and their main idea is the same.

That's what I've come to understand in my Christian experience, in any case. Christianity is the mere following of Jesus Christ and the Bible. All the branches fall under that.

[Edit]

Protestants aren't Christians? o0

[Edit]

Ah, yeah. Protestants = Christians.

 

[Zet]

Wooo Atheism threads, such great fun for people who have no belief and make fun of religion.

I'm a Catholic, while I am a believer I do have some doubts about things mentioned in the bible and how they contradict other things said in the bible. But when I look at Atheist side and how some think the big bang happened, I just don't quite understand the logic behind it "nothing existed before the big bang" then how did the gasses exist to cause the big bang?

But yeah, if you can answer how the big bang really happened and how gasses appeared without disproving the law of conservation of mass then I won't make fun of atheists and the big bang ever again.

 

[FaithInMe]

Catholicism is a derivative of christianity, I know that.
I havent been explaining myself well so far today, its still only early here.

In its very essence a derivative is different from its original. Otherwise there would be no need for said derivative.
Its logic.

All Im saying is that you cant actually believe both what "catholics" AND "christians (as first hand christians)" believe. Since they do actually have their different views and interpretations.
And this goes to include the other derivatives as well.


The Big Bang wasnt created from nothing and has been recreated in Geneva in the last monthish by some of the best scientists in the world.

 

[icomeanon6]

I noticed a few people have noted they are catholics and then used the word christian.
Completely different, guys.
Catholics and Christians have entirely different views and interpretations of the bible, and thus form different sects from the same original concept.

Which one do you wanna be? It makes no difference to me, it just is silly to call your self both, when it just isnt possible.

Catholics are in fact Christians, just ask any Catholic or other kind of Christian. Catholicism was actually the first form of Christianity, and everything else split off from there. You're most likely referring to Protestants when you say Christians. And even then you're making a huge generalization when you say that their views differ from Catholics', because you imply that all non-Catholic Christians agree with each other. Contemporary Christianity is far away from being a homogeneous organization. It's a large number of independent organizations, each with different beliefs, interpretations, practices, and structures. There are Roman Catholics, Baptists, Anglicans, Unitarians, Presbyterians, Mormons, Orthodox Catholics, Lutherans, Adventists, the list goes on and on.

Do some research before you start talking like an expert. Just because you've read the Bible doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about Christianity.

 

[Yusshin]

I think it's just commonly accepted to say you're "Christian" because that's the main branch. If you want to go into detail, you would say "I'm a Christian Catholic".

If you're Catholic, it's accepted usually to say you're Christian, because it's not necessarily wrong. It's just broad.

 

[Stairmaster]

I'm not Atheist. I would explain why but I think that would border on a religious debate which, as well all know, is almost as bad as a political debate.

I will say though that I don't discriminate against atheists or people of any religion for that matter.

 

[Timbjerr]

[Edit]

Protestants aren't Christians? o0

[Edit]

Ah, yeah. Protestants = Christians.

yeah, my post was admittedly a little vague...I wanted to type that statement as quick as possible so my double posts would merge. XD

Here's a quick question I'll pose to the atheists in here. What's your opinion on spirituality in general? As anyone can tell you, there is a significant difference between spirituality and religion. Is spirituality a necessary part of human life or not?

 

[Zet]

I'd feel weird to say "I'm a Christian" since it would feel like I worship Jesus more than God

 

[Yusshin]

I'd feel weird to say "I'm a Christian" since it would feel like I worship Jesus more than God

That's one of the things that made me go:

:\

at Christianity in general. Jesus was a prophet, but for some reason, they either a) interpreted him as God, or b ) just worship him more than God.


and Mormons are Christians? Really? I didn't know that o-o

 

[FaithInMe]

Do some research before you start talking like an expert. Just because you've read the Bible doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about Christianity.

I can say the same for the people who are religious talking down science like they know.
Not necessarily anyone particular, but it happens.
There is wrong and intolerance on both sides.
Ive never once stated I know everything, and Im completely respectful of religion. Im an atheist studying theology, I think thats tolerance enough on my part.

 

[Erin]

That's one of the things that made me go:

:\

at Christianity in general. Jesus was a prophet, but for some reason, they either a) interpreted him as God, or b ) just worship him more than God.

Speaking as someone who grew up in a Christian household, the reason they do that is because they identify God, Jesus of Nazareth, && the "Holy Spirit" as a Holy Trinity of sorts.

My major assertion is that this essentially makes Christianity polythesim, but the response I get is that they are "three equal parts that made creation".

So God is a part of God? =\\

Point is, though, that even if the Holy Trinty concept made sense, a ridiculous amount of focus is directed toward Jesus himself. God is mentioned to an extent, but I never hear anyone sing gospel songs about "the Holy Spirit".

The churches I've attended have prayers directed toward Jesus, songs dedicated to Jesus, && refer to Jesus as "the Lord". Even if Jesus is the "son" of God, even if he is the messiah, the messiah is still a human being, no matter how holy, blessed, or smiled upon by God. In that respect, you are worshipping not God, but a physical manifestation. What was that first commandment again you guys?

But I didn't come here to Christian-bash. I'm still a theist, && I still have a lot of respect for many aspects of Christian teachings && lifestyle. It's just that I question some of the subtilties, as I do with every other religion.

 

[Yusshin]

That's why I disagreed with Christianity overall. Jesus was but a man who did great things. He was not a "son" of God (in literal sense). He was a prophet sent by God with a miracle birth - God didn't impregnant Mary, though.

I never understood the Trinity idea either. God is God. God doesn't have three parts. Jesus is not God in human form. God is God, and He's in the universe somewhere, but I don't believe He ever became human.

But I respect Christianity over all. Nothing against'em. I have lots of Christian friends...

... like ZETTTTUUUU :D

 

[Zet]

the first commandment is not to worship any other Gods

 

[Yusshin]

the first commandment is not to worship any other Gods

I think Erin's assuming Christians worship a false God - Jesus - since Christians give Jesus more attention than God, and split God into "three parts" (Jesus, God, and the Holy Ghost).

I never understood why Christians call Jesus "lord". I called Jesus "lord" when I was a practising Christian, and I never understood that. It's as if Jesus is all-mighty, but he was only a man :<

Maybe Zettu can enlighten us!

 

[Zet]

Well the ten commandments came out before the birth of Jesus, so I guess in a way Christians are screwing themselves over by worshiping a false idol

 

[Yusshin]

Well the ten commandments came out before the birth of Jesus, so I guess in a way Christians are screwing themselves over by worshiping a false idol

Kinda...

But the Romans are to blame for that. They cherrypicked stuff. Apparently it was deliberate to make Jesus more worshipped than God Himself. I'm not sure, though. I wasn't there when they edited the Bible :s

 

[Erin]

I think Erin's assuming Christians worship a false God - Jesus - since Christians give Jesus more attention than God, and split God into "three parts" (Jesus, God, and the Holy Ghost).

That's basically what I'm going for.
I don't accuse them of anything--- who && how they choose to worship is their business, && as I've stated before, I feel that living a virtuous lifestyle && adhering to the consistent themes of religions in general is more crucial than identifying with any one religious group.

But as Zet stated, it's kind of self-contradicting. Regardless of whether or not worshipping Jesus is worshipping God "by proxy", it's still worshipping a physical manifestation of spiritualism, which is, by definition, an idol.