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Garchomp is soon to be an... UBer? O_O;

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Ársa

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  • ^^ Well, you sorta got the message, I just don't think you conveyed it all that well. If you HAD read that link Peeblo, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, especially if all you're using is the above comments, which become null when backed by that.

    ~T_S
     

    Mystery2009

    The Legacy Begins Now
    84
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  • My opinon on this situation is to ban it. Garchomp has virtually no counter and just being around it makes blind kids cry. There is no true counter to this jerk and its ability just adds to its demise. (personally I dont care what happens to it but if I have one less "threat" to counter it cant be all bad) When the ban happended on this site nothing changed for me, i just found another pokemon to use. And although its not a threat to me its pathetic to see a whole team to be changed because of a single ou
     

    Aquilae

    =))))))))88888888OOOOOOOO<
    386
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  • I propose that this thread title be changed as it is misleading - yes, this new action taken by Smogon may provide evidence to ban Garchomp, no, it hasn't been banned yet.

    I've battled in the suspect test ladder, and the loss of Garchomp had impacted my teams both offensively and defensively, defensively as Garchomp is a reliable answer to Tyranitar, SDLucario, not being Sala / Nite setup fodder...

    I support this ban, as what makes Garchomp overpowered is the Yache Berry set forcing players to carry multiple revenge-killers and counters to it on their team. Choice Band Garchomp is also a serious threat, 2HKOing walls not resisting Outrage.

    I feel my points have been expounded clearly in the tier debate thread.
     

    ThePlaya

    I Am The Charizard Master
    510
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • My opinon on this situation is to ban it. Garchomp has virtually no counter and just being around it makes blind kids cry. There is no true counter to this jerk and its ability just adds to its demise. (personally I dont care what happens to it but if I have one less "threat" to counter it cant be all bad) When the ban happended on this site nothing changed for me, i just found another pokemon to use. And although its not a threat to me its pathetic to see a whole team to be changed because of a single ou
    I totally agree with this.
    It really sucks that almost every team has to be changed just to be able to counter that Garchomp.
    I agree that it should be moved to UBER. Though it won't do any good there, it's too powerful to be in OU but too weak to be UBER.
    But I'm fine with that, and so are many people.
     

    Banjora Marxvile

    hOI!!!!!! i'm tEMMIE!!
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    well, you only need a powerful Ice pokemon to defeat garchomp, don't you? As Garchomp is Dragon/Ground, Ice pokemon could defeat it, if the Ice pokemon isn't defeated first though.
     
    3,956
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  • well, you only need a powerful Ice pokemon to defeat garchomp, don't you? As Garchomp is Dragon/Ground, Ice pokemon could defeat it, if the Ice pokemon isn't defeated first though.

    LOL. Try battling competitively. Bit harder when it doesn't use Giga Impact and Crunch.
     

    Walrein

    Banned
    737
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  • In short, it's either Cloyster moving to OU to defeat Garchomp (180 Def+Icicle Spear+Skill Link) or Garchimp becoming an Uber. I'm happy in both cases :) .
     

    peeblo

    Lord of the Air
    35
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  • ^^ Well, you sorta got the message, I just don't think you conveyed it all that well. If you HAD read that link Peeblo, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, especially if all you're using is the above comments, which become null when backed by that.
    I did read it o-o; (Seriously.) xD lol, Eh like I said before... I'm defending Chompy because it's very messed up to put a normal Pokemon with a bunch of "monsters." (I don't use one.) I simply think that Smogon is going to far with it, if it does go through some of my friends' strategies will sorta have to change, not to mention the work some put into it since they bred for decent IVs o-o; I also think that sooner or later they will get to Pokes I use D:

    Also, Chomp carries Yache Berry around 80% of the time... if it doesn't a STABed Ice Shard has potential to kill it o-o; (I've seen quite a few Scarfed ones too, if it helps to say.)

    EDIT: Potential would pretty much just include something with 340+ Att o-o; (Meaning most likely Mamo or Vile.)
     

    Ársa

    k.
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  • The only reason Garchomp is being considered is because it is too hard to counter. Salamence, Metagross etc are easier to counter, and have 100% counters, unlike Garchomp.

    ~T_S
     

    peeblo

    Lord of the Air
    35
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    15
    Years
  • Technically Chomp would have the same top weakness to Mence, but that's not if you factor in things like Stealth Rock, and a SandStorm, and other types of damage/immunities. (Though I suppose Rock does bring down Mence too... I've just never had contact with my Mence from it seems. o-o) Either way, I've said what I could. Now to sleep =D

    Thank You all for taking interest, please continue. *flies away on hammer*
     

    Sora_8920

    3,370
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    • Seen May 10, 2024
    Technically Chomp would have the same top weakness to Mence, but that's not if you factor in things like Stealth Rock, and a SandStorm, and other types of damage/immunities. (Though I suppose Rock does bring down Mence too... I've just never had contact with my Mence from it seems. o-o) Either way, I've said what I could. Now to sleep =D

    Thank You all for taking interest, please continue. *flies away on hammer*

    Lol. Anyway, I agree with T_S; Garchomp is hard to counter, especially with Sand Veil.
     

    Smarties-chan

    Should've had that name change
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    How can you even begin to compare Garchomp to Milotic? What can Milotic do outside of supporting the team with Light Screen, inducing sleep and possibly scoring a surprise KO with Mirror Coat? Not much, really. However Garchomp is a whole different matter. Garchomp has an excellent combination of STAB moves along with defensive capabilities that rival Swampert's and a massive Attack stat combined with good Speed and Swords Dance and arguably one of the best traits in the game. Just pair it up with a Tyranitar or Hippowdon and your "counters" will suddenly only succeed at stopping Chomp 80% of the time. Throw in a Yache Berry and you'll need not one, but two fast Ice attackers to take it down, or would you perhaps prefer a Sand Veil + Brightpowder combo giving it a 28% evasion boost in the sand? After just one Swords Dance (which is extremely easy to set up with Garchomp's good defenses and excellent resistances) Garchomp can one-hit KO a large amount of OUs and the majority of those that aren't one-hit KO'd will die to the second hit and won't be able to OHKO it.

    I have first-hand experience of how devastating Garchomp can be. I used to run a rather bad offensive team in Shoddy once and Garchomp alone has won me many matches with it. In most battles, Garchomp took down at least two Pokémon before going down. I ran a Jolly Life Orb Garchomp with Swords Dance and it's just ridiculous how many things get OHKOd after a Swords Dance. Gliscor was often the initial switch-in on my Garchomp and it quickly died to a Swords Dance Outrage. Outrage after just one Swords Dance (provided that Garchomp has Life Orb) is nearly a guaranteed 2-hit KO (49.11% - 57.99% damage) on a +Def 252 / 252 HP/Defense Bronzong. Swampert and Cresselia with the same EV spread take 97.77% - 115.10% and 73.42% - 86.26%. Vaporeon doesn't even stand a chance to survive the move. We're talking about some serious power here.

    A well-played Garchomp will never go down without taking at least two other Pokémon with it. (or severely hurting them so that they are practically useless) There is no Pokémon that can switch in on Garchomp without risking to lose a huge chunk of its HP and Yache Berry and Sand Veil make any counters unreliable at best. I've rarely had trouble dealing with Garchomp, but that's only because most people don't know how to use it, and even in the hands of these clueless people, Chomp has usually taken at least one of my Pokémon down with it. However, after having used one myself, I became convinced that the thing belongs in Ubers. Even a complete moron can wreak havoc with Garchomp; now imagine that force in the hands of someone who can actually use it. Toxic Spikes is probably the best "counter" to Garchomp and that doesn't really say much considering Garchomp can come in and set up on any Toxic Spiker before they can get their Toxic Spikes on the field and even then, Spinners do exist. (which aren't nearly as common as they used to be, but then again, the use of Toxic Spikes has also been declining after the Tentacruel hype ended)

    Also, keep in mind that just because there's a Garchomp-less test ladder doesn't mean it'll necessarily be banned. The people who have played on it will vote on whether or not they prefer the metagame as it is now or a Garchomp-less one. The countless Garchomp debates have accomplished nothing so I don't see why it'd be a bad idea to actually try a Garchomp-free metagame. How could we possibly know whether or not a metagame without Garchomp is less centralized unless we actually try it out?
     

    Magmortified

    Wherever I fly
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    So now Tyranitar should become UU?

    Maybe it's because Cloyster really isn't that great when you factor in Stealth Rock, the lack of recovery, the prominence of Close Combat as a move when Cloyster's trying to be a Physical wall... you know. At least Tar's good enough to make up for the Fighting weakness.

    And why does Cloyster need to be OU to counter Garchomp (though I'm really not too sure on its ability to counter Chomp)? You can use UU things in OU, y'know. ._.
     

    Volkner's Apprentice

    PC Veteran Prize Fighter
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  • How can you even begin to compare Garchomp to Milotic? What can Milotic do outside of supporting the team with Light Screen, inducing sleep and possibly scoring a surprise KO with Mirror Coat? Not much, really. However Garchomp is a whole different matter. Garchomp has an excellent combination of STAB moves along with defensive capabilities that rival Swampert's and a massive Attack stat combined with good Speed and Swords Dance and arguably one of the best traits in the game. Just pair it up with a Tyranitar or Hippowdon and your "counters" will suddenly only succeed at stopping Chomp 80% of the time. Throw in a Yache Berry and you'll need not one, but two fast Ice attackers to take it down, or would you perhaps prefer a Sand Veil + Brightpowder combo giving it a 28% evasion boost in the sand? After just one Swords Dance (which is extremely easy to set up with Garchomp's good defenses and excellent resistances) Garchomp can one-hit KO a large amount of OUs and the majority of those that aren't one-hit KO'd will die to the second hit and won't be able to OHKO it.

    I have first-hand experience of how devastating Garchomp can be. I used to run a rather bad offensive team in Shoddy once and Garchomp alone has won me many matches with it. In most battles, Garchomp took down at least two Pokémon before going down. I ran a Jolly Life Orb Garchomp with Swords Dance and it's just ridiculous how many things get OHKOd after a Swords Dance. Gliscor was often the initial switch-in on my Garchomp and it quickly died to a Swords Dance Outrage. Outrage after just one Swords Dance (provided that Garchomp has Life Orb) is nearly a guaranteed 2-hit KO (49.11% - 57.99% damage) on a +Def 252 / 252 HP/Defense Bronzong. Swampert and Cresselia with the same EV spread take 97.77% - 115.10% and 73.42% - 86.26%. Vaporeon doesn't even stand a chance to survive the move. We're talking about some serious power here.

    A well-played Garchomp will never go down without taking at least two other Pokémon with it. (or severely hurting them so that they are practically useless) There is no Pokémon that can switch in on Garchomp without risking to lose a huge chunk of its HP and Yache Berry and Sand Veil make any counters unreliable at best. I've rarely had trouble dealing with Garchomp, but that's only because most people don't know how to use it, and even in the hands of these clueless people, Chomp has usually taken at least one of my Pokémon down with it. However, after having used one myself, I became convinced that the thing belongs in Ubers. Even a complete moron can wreak havoc with Garchomp; now imagine that force in the hands of someone who can actually use it. Toxic Spikes is probably the best "counter" to Garchomp and that doesn't really say much considering Garchomp can come in and set up on any Toxic Spiker before they can get their Toxic Spikes on the field and even then, Spinners do exist. (which aren't nearly as common as they used to be, but then again, the use of Toxic Spikes has also been declining after the Tentacruel hype ended)

    Also, keep in mind that just because there's a Garchomp-less test ladder doesn't mean it'll necessarily be banned. The people who have played on it will vote on whether or not they prefer the metagame as it is now or a Garchomp-less one. The countless Garchomp debates have accomplished nothing so I don't see why it'd be a bad idea to actually try a Garchomp-free metagame. How could we possibly know whether or not a metagame without Garchomp is less centralized unless we actually try it out?

    Um so, yeah, that's amazing. Excellent defense of a possible no-Chomp future! There's no reason we can't try it out. Though those rules have yet to set in here on PC, at least in the Battle Stadium anyway. So unfortunately we don't get Garchomp-less battles for awhile if you're looking for opponents here.
     

    _Prince_

    Pikachu?
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  • It's just a separate test ladder to test out the current meta-game without Garchomp around to see how it goes and at the end of that they will decide if the meta-game without garchomp is somewhat better. so nothing is offical yet. Anything could happen.

    I can't wait when they test out the Latios and other few ubers...
     

    Aurafire

    provider of cake
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  • Just looking at its base stats, you can see how Garchomp compares to some Ubers. That being said, I really would be ok with it being OU if not for the most annoying ability in the world: Sand Veil. Without it, Chomp is still an amazing physical sweeper who would still dominate OU play. But factor in all moves against him have only an 80% chance to hit, at best. A couple of misses and Garchomp will literally *chomp* you and your entire team. I personally think Garchomp is very over-powered and should be moved to Ubers.
     

    Matt-O

    The King's Shadow
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  • I agree simply because I'm tired of seeing him. But that can't be the only reason to kick him out, or Blissey would be gone too. Seriously, he does have the stats, ability, and movepool to be too large of a threat in the OU tier. People just abuse him nowadays.
     
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    I hate Garchomp in every possible way. it's so ugly, way to strong for the metagame, and is so annoying. I would looooooove to see at least 2 maches in a row without him.
     
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