Garchomp is soon to be an... UBer? O_O;

[sims796]

LURK MOAR

Anywho, Magmortified reminds me, Chomp actually fares pretty well in ubers, nullifying that argument evem more.

 

[Matt-O]

I haven't been more insulted to read the American language in quite some time. The biggest problem is that people are LITERALLY IGNORING ALL POST that counters them. They say, "I read that Garchomp's counters can't stop him, but he has counters!", or "I know Garchomp's Ice weakness doesn't stop him AT ALL, but Garchomp has an Ice weakness"! Seriously, are you guys just plain idiots, or are you just illiterate?

Those people are right and wrong at the same time. Garchomp has things that CAN counter him, but his ability leaves it up to luck whether or not the DO. The prominence of Hippowdon and Tyranitar in the metagame means that there is often a Sandstorm in effect, thus Sand Veil often kicks in. Without that ability, Weavile, Cressy, Swampy, Hippowdon and probably even Bulky Dos (packing Ice Fang) would be able to stop him on a regular basis. Even with the Yache Berry Ice moves from them and others would bring him way down on health and allow for an easy revenge kill if they themselves didn't get the job done. But with Sand Veil there is always a decent chance of missing, so things that can potentially counter him often miss their chance. This is why he has a weakness, but it doesn't usually stop him. Part of the reason he is devastating is Hippowdon and T-Tar.

If you are sayin at this moment,"OMG! He wants to ban them too," Shut up. You're an idiot. I don't think they should go too, I love my Hippowdon. It's just that they contribute to Garchomp being a major threat.

 

[.]

I personally think Chomp should be in ubers. It's performence in Ubers doesn't change the fact that it practically breaks the entire OU Metagame. Nearly every team has something to deal with Chomp, whether it be a revenge killer, or even a wall that can take it's hits. Even still, unless they pack Reflect, they will more than likely be 2HKO'd.

Let's look at Garchomp's typing. Ground/Dragon leaves it with only 2 weaknesses. A 4x. and a 2x. Almost no one attacks Chomp for it's Dragon weakness, preferably going for the Ice weakness. Still, Chomp's bulky enough to make use of Yache Berry, which can give it a free turn to do whatever the hell it wants. Even still, don't think a single Ice attack will down Chomp, most need at least 269 SpA EV's to OHKO min HP/min SpD Chomp, nevermind Yache Berry. That means to be an effective Chomp counter, you'll need to heavily invest in SpA.

Now, let's look at Chomp's STABs. It has te 3rd most powerful Earthquake in the entire game. The 3rd most powerful Outrage in the entire game. The only things that have a stronger Earthquake are Rhyperior (which sucks anyway) and Groudon (which is a high-tier Uber) The only things with a stronger Outrage are Dragonite (which, in my opinion, has little that it can offer over Chomp except for DD + Outrage) And Rayquaza (which is a high-tier uber)

Let's also look at Garchomp's ability; Sand Veil. Sand Veil means that even you're counter for Chomp can miss and either be OHKO'd or put into the range where they won't be useful for anything else (in that event, Garchomp can switch out)

This whole debate between Chomp being outclassed by Rayquaza is true, however, Garchomp will almost always beat Rayquaza one on one because it has a higher base speed. In fact, Garchomp is in it's own speed tier. Base 102 allows it to outrun ALL base 100's. That means Salamence cannot outspeed and OHKO it without a DD. Chomp is also bulkier than Salamence, and Swampert.

After I look at it, Chomp has too much going for it to stay in OU. It has an incredible typing, incredible movepool, a unique speed tier, and one hell of an effect on the metagame. I say goodbye Chomp, glad to see you gone.

 

[sims796]

Not entirely. It's dangerous without Sandstorm. Very little can switch in to counter it. Almost all counters are 2hko'ed, and there goes his counters. You MUST revenge kill it, as almost nothing can really switch in. Not that it's unbeatable, but it is very overcenralizing.

EDIT; AHA,VANCE BEAT MEH

 

[SmashBrony]

I belive they had this arguement bout tyranitar...
if garchomp goes bye-bye, then so will tyranitar.

 

[airconditioning]

Why would Tyranitar leave? Garchomp's departure from OU wouldn't make Tyranitar overpowered, meaning he would have no reason to be banned.

 

[The Hero Without a Name]

Why would Tyranitar leave? Garchomp's departure from OU wouldn't make Tyranitar overpowered, meaning he would have no reason to be banned.

He's probably referring to this guy who posted in Smogon's forums arguing for the ban of Tyranitar, Garchomp, and Salamence from OU...

Wouldn't removing Garchomp from OU kinda mess up the metagame (like all the new whacked additions to UU from Smogon)? Then again, some people say that Garchomp messes up the metagame just by being there...

 

[sims796]

Didn't I just say that people who uses that argument above ac's are childish moooorons?

Personally, I won't fret much if he stays, but I will be glad if he's gone. I can't even use my Raichu because of a frackin BASE 10****2 SPEED! What the hell!

 

[ABYAY]

lol Sims, you are awesome...They're moving it to Ubers so your Vileplume can't make it look ashamed, so they gotta get it away from the commonplace of Vileplume...then again, Plume will just follow it to Ubers and terrorize it there.

Chomp has no inspiration on ANY Pokemon in OU, and it's not going to "drag" anything with it to another tier.

 

[Anti]

Chomp has no inspiration on ANY Pokemon in OU

I'd have to disagree with that slightly. Tyranitar and Garchomp actually are related to each other a little since Sand Stream is often used to set up Garchomp's Sand Veil. Does it have any effecton their tier status? No, but other pokemon affect others a lot. I agree with the rest of what you said but just think that should be mentioned at least.

By the way it seems like Garchomp is going to be banned anyways. Most influential Smogoners seem to support its ban (from what I've read, anyways) and there is little support to keep it in OUs, as this thread as well as many others have shown. People fear it so much these days that they overprepare, so this metagame lacking Garchomp will change things around somewhat. I really can't bear the idea of Gengar being the most used pokemon in the game. It's a good pokemon but #1...*shudders*

But yeah, what I'm saying is that this month probably won't be doing any favors for my stance on this and it will probably be banned. I mean, it just seems like everything is poitning to "Garchomp is going to be banned." We can debate it but it seems like this will happen anyways. I'm not trying to discourage a little debate here but I do think it's pretty obvious that it's going to be banned.

Even if this new ladder has no evidence against Garchomp, there was "no evidence" against Wobbuffet either and it's uber right now. So yeah lol

Despite its immense power (the most powerful beats in OUs), I've always kind of seen SD Garchomp as overrated. It takes out pokemon but Garchomp will rarely totally sweep a team (mostly due to how fast and powerful the current metagame is, revenge killing Chomp before it can sweep, and that 50% chance of not being able to switch does him no favors). That might have something to do with my stance on the matter but eh, it's out of my hands so I don't really worry about it ;p Just wanted to say that lol

btw I would not be sad to see Garchomp go. Its increase in usage only seems to make OUs more monotonous. As "noobish" as that stance might sound, seeing garchomp literally every other battle kind of saps the originality out of the game. It's like every other time you run into a restaurant, it's a pizza place. You get tired of seeing pizza all the time.

Even though it's totally irrelevant, I find it funny that Garchomp can't safely switch in on focus sash luvdisc lol.

 

[ABYAY]

You won't see Chomp being used against you if you battle someone named ABYAY ^^

And I saw your point about the inspiration thing, but I worded that wrong. It was supposed to say "Garchomp has no inspiration on banning any other Pokemon in OU"...At least that's what I mean to say now. Probably not earlier, but ah well, you win this around.

 

[Walrein]

I didn't really see this thye of Garchomp that is so strong in shoddy, I never had such great problems against it. Cloyster can use it's 180 base defense to block it and use Icicle Spear from a decent base 95 attack, as Yache will only weaken the first of five hits thanks to Skill Link. Scarfing Abomasnow can enter in an EQ, remove the Sandstorm and OHKO with Blizzard. Articuno can enter into an EQ as well and use Ice Beam/Blizzard, or, if needed, Ice Shard. Dewgong can mess it with Ice Shard, Icicle Spear and Icy Wind as well. What makes it so powerful? Yache Berry? Just use Occa Berry on Foretress and move it to Ubers as well.

 

[Ársa]

I didn't really see this thye of Garchomp that is so strong in shoddy, I never had such great problems against it. Cloyster can use it's 180 base defense to block it and use Icicle Spear from a decent base 95 attack, as Yache will only weaken the first of five hits thanks to Skill Link. Scarfing Abomasnow can enter in an EQ, remove the Sandstorm and OHKO with Blizzard. Articuno can enter into an EQ as well and use Ice Beam/Blizzard, or, if needed, Ice Shard. Dewgong can mess it with Ice Shard, Icicle Spear and Icy Wind as well. What makes it so powerful? Yache Berry? Just use Occa Berry on Foretress and move it to Ubers as well.

Cloyster shouldn't be used as an example, it's got a very good base defence, but due to it's weakness to very common attacking types, and it's lack of a reliable recovery move etc, it is outclassed by many other physical walls. Abomasnow cannot take a hit for crap, especially not an SD Earthquake, and is slower than Garchomp anyway. Scarfed Abomasnow is an abomination, you're pulling at straws, no-one in their right mind would use it. The only decent thing Abomasnow has going for it is the sub punching/seeding sets, which would no longer be viable with Choice Scarf.

Articuno is OHKO'd by SD Outrage, and cannot OHKO with Ice Beam due to Yache Berry, same goes for Dewgong, and is also never seen in competitive OU play. We've heard all this before from other people, but seriously, it isn't well thought out. That's like saying 'Oh, Wobbuffet is easy to beat if you run a Garchomp with Toxic! Seriously, creating a moveset to counter 1 pokemon isn't all that smart, and usually backfires far more often than not.

~T_S

 

[Walrein]

Cloyster shouldn't be used as an example, it's got a very good base defence, but due to it's weakness to very common attacking types, and it's lack of a reliable recovery move etc, it is outclassed by many other physical walls. Abomasnow cannot take a hit for crap, especially not an SD Earthquake, and is slower than Garchomp anyway. Scarfed Abomasnow is an abomination, you're pulling at straws, no-one in their right mind would use it. The only decent thing Abomasnow has going for it is the sub punching/seeding sets, which would no longer be viable with Choice Scarf.

Articuno is OHKO'd by SD Outrage, and cannot OHKO with Ice Beam due to Yache Berry, same goes for Dewgong, and is also never seen in competitive OU play. We've heard all this before from other people, but seriously, it isn't well thought out. That's like saying 'Oh, Wobbuffet is easy to beat if you run a Garchomp with Toxic! Seriously, creating a moveset to counter 1 pokemon isn't all that smart, and usually backfires far more often than not.

~T_S

Abomasnow can't take a hit it resists? Articuno and Dewgong OHKOed so easily? Iv'e never seen that on shoddy.
And yes, I agree that Garchomp is ugly, but so is Tyranitar and it's still a pest.

 

[Ársa]

It is Ice/Grass. It doesn't resist Earthquake.

Standard Abomasnow is 2HKO'd by SD Earthquake, but a SD Dragon Claw OHKO's, and as I said, Scarf Abomasnow is retarded. Besides, many Garchomp run Fire Fang/Blast for Bronzong. Articuno is a special tank, taking a +2 120 power STAB attack from a Base 135 attack stat is nothing to sneeze at, and Yache Berry stops Articuno from KO'ing. Dewgong is rarely seen in UU, and there are so many better pokemon in OU that do the job far better, and is also KO'd by Garchomp before it can KO, thanks to Yache.

Tyranitar has 100% counters. Agreed it has a wide variety of sets, but once that set is found out, it's easier than Garchomp to kill. For starters, most common sets don't run Chople Berry (the Tyranitar equivalent of Yache), and Tyranitar doesn't have Sand Veil. It's also weak to a more common attack type in fighting, and is hit from it's weaker physical side. Garchomp is more bulky than Swampert, so it isn't exactly easy to take down. (Swampert also has a 4x weakness, but people aren't as worried about that are they?)

~T_S

Spoiler:

I WISH PEOPLE WOULD STOP COMPARING GARCHOMP TO TYRANITAR/SALAMENCE!

 

[Walrein]

It does resist Ground, it's a Grass-type. Ice-types aren't weak to Ground, the opposite is true.
This whole issue is really reminding me Dugtrio in Advance. I just kept killing them one by one even thought most agreed of it to be so powerful. That's maybe because Ice and Water are two of my favorite types, or because most of my teams don't even carry a Ground weakness.

 

[sims796]

Or you were fighting retards.

Coming up with half assed solutions won't make Chomp seem any weaker. As we said, it's bulky enough that Ice moves won't OHKO, and that's without a Yache Berry. We even did damage calcs. Seriously, yu said Cloyster & Dewgong? Just because their ice types does mean crap. They cannot survive a damn thing. Dewgong is slow & fragile. Cloyster is just too weak. Both will fall from an unboosted attack. Unless your opponent is dumb enough to switch Chomp into an Ice Beam, don't bring up weak UUs as a solution. Especially my favorites.
EDIT: Second, everything phears Plume. NO EXCEPTIONS.

 

[Ársa]

Vileplume doesn't fear Vileplume...it fears LUVDISC!

But finally, someone else has said what I've been trying to. Creating sets to counter a single pokemon is overcentralization, which we are trying to avoid...

~T_S

 

[Walrein]

Well then, either a UBL rating will be made or Garchomp is joining Mewtwo...

 

[sims796]

Of course, Plume is allergic to Heart Scale.

But lets pretend Cloyster beats Chomp *giggle*. Well, how does it (& FRACKIN DEWGONG) stack up in the rest of the OU metagame? Should every team use those two just to beat Chomp? As TS said, overwhatchamacallit.