I ain't really interested in the new Pokemon shows :(

[randomspot555]

Do you think I'm idiot?

No, just horrible misinformed and blinded by nostaligia.

[quote[I know what does "filler" mean! You needn't to say what is this.[/quote]

No, you don't. You are defining filler as "anything I don't like/don't think is necessary." Filler is anything that doesn't move the plot forward. Johto and Kanto have much more filler than Sinnoh.

DP has more fillers,

Prove it.

that list in the link is not true and made by some user,

Who also went through episodes and defined why each is or isn't filler. You just said "psh, it's some user" and didn't actually tell why this guy was wrong, or why Johto has less filler.

because more episodes can be skipped.

Such as?

Contests are unnecessary because this anime is only about Ash, not about Dawn and her contests.

Contests are a major part of the games and of the franchise, which the anime serves to promote. By ignoring contests, the anime isn't doing it's job. Contests in Hoenn games and Sinnoh games are introduced during the main plot. They are not filler because they often contain plot advancement as well.

Just because you like DP. It doesn't mean that it's better. More people like older seasons, because they are better.

SPECIFICS. I have given you specifics and even went through 10 Johto episodes and almost half were filler. You just say "psh, D/P sucks" and whine and moan about it, but you can't say anything good about Johto. Why is that?

Point to specific episodes in Johto. Take the 10 that I talked about a few posts above, and tell me why those aren't filler.

 

[Taemin]

Yes, Orange Islands is cool filler season. Everything is better than DP saga. DP saga is such predictable.

In DP's defense.. a lot of the episodes from all of the seasons have been predictable at times. > >;

If you actually take the time to sit down and watch some DP episodes, a lot of them are cute, and unique. On the flip side, a lot of them are fairly dull.. but thats happened with every season so far. xD; Every series is going to have it's ups and downs, and DP is no different.

DP seems to have more 'downs' to me, because I'm just now watching them.. if I were 10, most of the episodes would probably be a lot more amusing to me.

As far as the whole 'filler' thing goes.. every series has had it's share of those as well. DP doesn't seem to have any more or any less than other seasons, though. At least not from what I've seen. Sometimes I'll think "Man.. DP is going slow." but then I think about it, and realize that Ash is almost to his final badge. The end is coming closer, so the fillers aren't too bad.


(I should really ignore this topic.. xD; ah well.)

 

[yoshi12370]

It depends which episode is filler for you. For me DP has more fillers than Johto. Besides Johto has better fillers than DP. DP fillers are too plastic.


Do you want reason? Ok. Better story. Better action. No plastic and super cute contests (bleee). No long and extensive story.


I already sad "bad reason". Didn't I?

1. Jotho has more fillers.

2. DP has better fillers(Evil Togepi screwing with the gang? Awesome)

3. DP actually has a better plot. The Team Galactic plot IMO is WAY better than most of the Pokemon movies.

4. Contests are interesting.

5. Long stories=/=Bad.

 

[PerlaNemesis]

DP has more interesting story. Team Galactic and Hunter J are really interesting. And there's more action. But I still miss old episodes. I liked Hoenn even without Misty. Contests were new things to me, but now I think they are boring and too girlish. As for Johto, to me it wasn't very memorable. DP is better because of action and new villains. But old characters are boring to me now. Especially Team Rocket.

 

[Katie_Q]

I agree with everyone else. I used to LOVE watching pokemon, but now I'm getting older. I'm 14 and I still sometimes watch it online and watch it when it's on tv, but I don't like it as much. And to me the original episodes are just a good memory, I don't really want to re-watch them again, because I now find ashes old voice to be annoying and weird. And I still get laughs from the newer episodes.

But we are all going to get over it eventually. I'll be watching pokemon for a few more years, and playing the games for even longer. I'll probably get my future kids dvds and games and see if they get into it. but most of us won't be fanatics forever.

And you might miss it because it's old and you have memories of loving that season. When the hoenn seasons came out I was missing watching Kanto and Jhoto seasons. And now I'm missing Hoenn as well, just because of all the great memories I have from the time pokemon was something I partially lived for. Not sure if I'll ever miss watching the sinnoh seasons, since I haven't even watched much of it yet. I will watch more of it though when I get bored, because it seems fine to me.

 

[*Charizard*]

I still watch the show even after all these years and even though sinnoh might not be the most interesting and does have the best rival...Paul

 

[Vernikova]

I guess it's as good a time as any to mention that Cartoon Network is streaming most of Kanto and the Orange Islands on their website. Though, it's stretched out like a *****.

https://www.cartoonnetwork.com/tv_shows/pokemon/index.html

 

[ashketchum23]

I wouldn't mind watching the new Pokemon if Ash was still a newbie because when he was, it was funny. Ash didn't know what he was doing and the funniest thing that I would always laugh at is when Brock always says something that is always obvious like, "There is something on the door." Ash is right near the door and he still says it. Anyways, that old series was much more funnier. Team Rocket did make it funny as well.

 

[frtakn5423]

i know wat u guys mean its like nothing can surprise me anymore kinda feel

 

[SBaby]

I'll be perfectly honest. I stopped caring about any of the characters after the Kanto Saga. I tried to like the later ones, and for a while, I liked Sinnoh (because of Paul, who is currently the coolest character in Pokemon). But I've gotta tell you. Overall, it really isn't all that impressive anymore. Most of the time, the characters go to some random dude's house, or meet a random Trainer, learn about a Pokemon you'll never see again, have a 30-second battle against JJM, and learn some supposedly life-altering lesson that they claim will apply to later adventures, but it never really does. That's the basic formula for the bulk of the episodes in the series.

Every once in awhile, they'll have a 2 or 3 episode mini-series with the evil organization of the Region and deal with a Legendary Pokemon. And much like Tales of the Black Freighter, it goes nowhere and is forgotten about immediately afterward! The only episodes that really mean anything in the grand scheme of things are ones where a character catches a Pokemon, Gym Battles, Contests or League Battles. And those are few and far between.

Why not have a plot centering around a real villain? And please don't insult my intelligence by saying they can't do that because it's a children's show. That's a really bad excuse, considering the fact that I know of at least 10 children's shows made in the US that had really menacing villains and plots that were involved and intriguing, and there's Animes like that too. If you want me to, I can list some and tell you why I picked them.

 

[Dashi_sato]

in every episode, all they ever do is meet some random dude who has some pokemon that is soooo amazing to them because they've never seen one, then rocket tries to steal it, and they beat em, and then they say theyll see eachother again(they never do) and claim to learn some lesson about pokemon. its sooo overdone, fillfer gets old.

 

[randomspot555]

Why not have a plot centering around a real villain? And please don't insult my intelligence by saying they can't do that because it's a children's show. That's a really bad excuse, considering the fact that I know of at least 10 children's shows made in the US that had really menacing villains and plots that were involved and intriguing, and there's Animes like that too. If you want me to, I can list some and tell you why I picked them.

How about because it's a children's show based on a children's (IE Family Friendly) series of video game? Satoshi Tajiri even specifically said he wanted Pokemon to "faint" and not "die" because he thought video games and the phrase "oh, I lost a life" was trivializing life.

I can almost guarantee you that none of the shows you name are from a series of child-marketed family friendly video games like Pokemon is.

 

[SBaby]

I can almost guarantee you that none of the shows you name are from a series of child-marketed family friendly video games like Pokemon is.

Did I mention that Sonic the Hedgehog (SatAM) is one of the shows I can use as an example? Doesn't get much more 'family-friendly games' than that.

There's also Bucky O'Hare, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (which had and still has an entire line of video games and toys), Spiral Zone, to name a few.

Then there's G.I. Joe, Transformers (though you could argue that it's geared toward pre-teens and not children), He-Man, Thundercats. I'll stop there, because you've got enough to look up with just those.


So yeah. They did it. Pokemon can. And by the way, other than Transformers, not a single character is killed and there isn't a single cuss word or drop of blood in any of the cartoons I just mentioned (except for one X-rated moment in a G.I. Joe PSA where a kid gets a nosebleed and learns what to do to stop it). But you know what? Despite that, they all had great villains and great plots (for their time, anyway).

 

[randomspot555]

Did I mention that Sonic the Hedgehog (SatAM) is one of the shows I can use as an example? Doesn't get much more 'family-friendly games' than that.

Lasted two seasons. Pokemon, however, has lasted for...12, 13 years? Also interesting to note that a show (SatAM) that departed from the franchise norm...well, failed. Admittedly, the show that aired alongside it, Adventures of Sonic and Tails, was canned as well.

There's also Bucky O'Hare,

There's not much family friendly about a cult-level comic character. But according to Wikipedia, this basically adapted the comic book. What this thread is talking about is a major departure for Pokemon.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (which had and still has an entire line of video games and toys),

That series from the 90s? I don't remember that as being dark, or having any more plot than the standard Saturday morning cartoon.

Wikipedia even says that the TMNT series from the 80s-early 90s was toned down from the comic book it's based on.

Bad example, isn't it? You're trying to find examples of children franchises that have mature shows.

I mean, besides Spiral Zone, which I've never heard of, and SatAM, I don't think any of these shows had particularly mature plots. They were fairly generic saturday morning cartoons whos purpose is to market a franchise. Pokemon does the same thing.

 

[SBaby]

Lasted two seasons. Also interesting to note that a show (SatAM) that departed from the franchise norm...well, failed.

Yet it's considered by fans of the franchise to be the best Sonic cartoon ever made, failing not because of ratings, but because of executives at ABC pulling the plug on it (using Power Rangers as an excuse, even though the two shows didn't even share the same time slot). Get in the game before making baseless claims about a show failing.

That series from the 90s? I don't remember that as being dark, or having any more plot than the standard Saturday morning cartoon.

Ever see the last two seasons? Go watch them.

Wikipedia

The lest credible source of information on the internet? Really? You're going to use that to rebut my examples? I'm sorry, but there are way better sites to look up information about the shows on than that.

I don't really need to go on with that. The point is, there are tons of cartoons out there that have taken a more serious route with their storylines. Why can't Pokemon? It's not that hard to do.


And just to be clear, I'm not talking about making Pokemon dark and gritty, because even Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors wasn't that hardcore. But they can at least come up with a more credible Skeletor-like villain that's actually a threat to the world and develop the characters more effectively. Really, it's not that hard to do.

 

[Mew~]

Well, i kinda like the new show... its not that bad... it doesnt seem very different from the old series... =P

 

[yossarian]

Yet it's considered by fans of the franchise to be the best Sonic cartoon ever made, failing not because of ratings, but because of executives at ABC pulling the plug on it (using Power Rangers as an excuse, even though the two shows didn't even share the same time slot). Get in the game before making baseless claims about a show failing.



Ever see the last two seasons? Go watch them.



The lest credible source of information on the internet? Really? You're going to use that to rebut my examples? I'm sorry, but there are way better sites to look up information about the shows on than that.

I don't really need to go on with that. The point is, there are tons of cartoons out there that have taken a more serious route with their storylines. Why can't Pokemon? It's not that hard to do.


And just to be clear, I'm not talking about making Pokemon dark and gritty, because even Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors wasn't that hardcore. But they can at least come up with a more credible Skeletor-like villain that's actually a threat to the world and develop the characters more effectively. Really, it's not that hard to do.

See what I don't understand is, if you want to watch something like Sonic and "Bucky O Haire", well how about ........ you watch Sonic and Bucky O Haire, instead of trying to change Pokemon to suit your own specific needs.

Pokemon will always be Pokemon, light-hearted, childish, a bit of fun not to be taken seriously. It's a formula that's worked for 12 years and is still working. There really is no need to change it just because some teenagers/young adults who used to watch it want something now that is more suitable for them, finally.

As for the Wikipedia point. You're right it's not a credible source of information. You couldn't list it as a reference for a serious Lab report, science article, news report (believe me I have seen idiots who have tried) because it's not guaranteed to be accurate. That said 99.9% of the stuff on there is correct, only a very little is crap and usually that gets spotted quickly and removed; you seem to be acting like the majority is false. For the purposes of an internet debate it's a valid source of information. Besides you've just dismissed the guys point just on the basis it's from Wikipedia, without actually denying the information he gained from it.

 

[randomspot555]

Yet it's considered by fans of the franchise to be the best Sonic cartoon ever made, failing not because of ratings, but because of executives at ABC pulling the plug on it (using Power Rangers as an excuse, even though the two shows didn't even share the same time slot). Get in the game before making baseless claims about a show failing.

Regardless of why it was canned, it was still canned. If it failed other than ratings speaks even more of how that shouldn't be followed if one wants to keep a show on the air.

Ever see the last two seasons? Go watch them.

It's not entirely unheard of for a show to get a lot darker when they know they're getting cancelled. See the Iron Man and Fantastic Four cartoons of the 1990s, or X-Men: Evolutions season 3-5 more recently.

The lest credible source of information on the internet? Really? You're going to use that to rebut my examples? I'm sorry, but there are way better sites to look up information about the shows on than that.

What was wrong about what's written there?

I don't really need to go on with that. The point is, there are tons of cartoons out there that have taken a more serious route with their storylines. Why can't Pokemon? It's not that hard to do.

Because Pokemon isn't those cartoons. It's doing it's own thing. And to think this is even in the realm of possibility in a franchise where VERY LITTLE ever changes is at best, a far out idea, if not completely beyond the realm of possibility.

And just to be clear, I'm not talking about making Pokemon dark and gritty, because even Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors wasn't that hardcore. But they can at least come up with a more credible Skeletor-like villain that's actually a threat to the world and develop the characters more effectively. Really, it's not that hard to do.

...Like Cyrus and Pokemon Hunter J?

 

[SBaby]

And to think this is even in the realm of possibility in a franchise where VERY LITTLE ever changes is at best, a far out idea, if not completely beyond the realm of possibility.

I never said it will happen. I just said it should happen. What can I say? The average episode of Pokemon is boring.

...Like Cyrus and Pokemon Hunter J?

And I'm sorry, but neither of them were anywhere near the caliber of Mumm-Ra, Skeletor or Megatron. J's motivation was usually money (selling Pokemon she stole to the highest bidder), so she was Mr. Big at best. Cyrus had one overall master plan that was foiled, maybe he'll have another, but knowing the writers, that's very doubtful. No, we've likely seen the last of them. But you are right, they were the most interesting antagonists in this saga.

Not to mention, that means they each lasted what? 5 episodes? 6 at most? That's a guest villain timeframe at best. I'm talking about a villain that is a legitimate threat to the world and takes an entire full story arc to beat, not just two episodes and the LPOTD (or M depending on if it's a movie or not). They won't do it. I know. Not even in a spinoff series. It's really a shame because I see it as a missed opportunity to expand the potential fanbase.

Regardless of why it was canned, it was still canned. If it failed other than ratings speaks even more of how that shouldn't be followed if one wants to keep a show on the air.

It didn't fail. It was cancelled by ONE GUY that didn't like the show, and he used a mediocre Americanized interpretation of a Japanese franchise as an excuse. There was no regard for the fanbase or the audience. And how would it be a bad idea when it still has the most dedicated and unified fanbase out of any Sonic cartoon in existence?

Again, get in the game and do a bit of research BEYOND WIKIPEDIA before posting again. Misinformation isn't exactly helpful. The things you read on Wikipedia can be changed by ANYONE, you know. To ANYTHING. As it stands, they're accurate about 45 percent of the time, if that.

Because Pokemon isn't those cartoons. It's doing it's own thing.

In reviews, comparisons to other franchises are inevitable.

 

[randomspot555]

I never said it will happen. I just said it should happen. What can I say? The average episode of Pokemon is boring.

When you base an anime on a game that you can pretty much predict the general plot of from before it's even released, what do you expect?

Not to mention, that means they each lasted what? 5 episodes? 6 at most? That's a guest villain timeframe at best. I'm talking about a villain that is a legitimate threat to the world and takes an entire full story arc to beat, not just two episodes and the LPOTD (or M depending on if it's a movie or not). They won't do it. I know. Not even in a spinoff series. It's really a shame because I see it as a missed opportunity to expand the potential fanbase.

For a show that started out as having no threats (TR the organization was rarely shown), to having minor threats in Aqua and Magam, I see Cyrus and J has huge improvements.

You see "expand the potential fanbase." I, and likely the people at TPCi and their affiliates, think why fix what isn't broken? After 12 years on the air, Pokemon is getting good ratings at Cartoon Network, the movies are box office hits in Japan, and it still regularly places in the top 20 (usually top 10) animes each week in Japan.

It didn't fail. It was cancelled by ONE GUY that didn't like the show, and he used a mediocre Americanized interpretation of a Japanese franchise as an excuse. There was no regard for the fanbase or the audience. And how would it be a bad idea when it still has the most dedicated and unified fanbase out of any Sonic cartoon in existence?

Nevertheless, it was canceled. You complain about me using Wikipedia for..looking up the titles and background of the show, but SatAM's article doesn't mention why it was canceled, just that it was. So you counter my saying it was canceled by...stating various facts without sourcing it.

Again, get in the game and do a bit of research BEYOND WIKIPEDIA before posting again. Misinformation isn't exactly helpful. The things you read on Wikipedia can be changed by ANYONE, you know. To ANYTHING. As it stands, they're accurate about 45 percent of the time, if that.

All I used Wikipedia for was the length run of the respected series you named. I'd be surprised if you can actually prove that the facts on there are wrong.

Regardless of your issues with Wikipedia, you named a bunch of shows that are either canceled, long gone, or have different aims than the Pokemon anime does.

As to you saying that a more mature anime could happen, you've obviously found that fix in many other shows. Why not recognize Pokemon for what it is instead of what you think it should be, and watch the other shows when you want a more mature cartoon?

Vote with your wallet. If one (not specifically you, but general you) keeps buying the repetitive games, and purchasing and consuming other media that promote the repetitive games, you are signaling that you approve of how the franchise is run. They've obviously found success in this. Go watch something else. I know that when I watch Pokemon, I'm watching a fairly simplistic kids show. I want plot, I'll watch something from the DC Universe.