After reading through whole thread again taking in account every post and opinion expressed in here. Here is what i ultimately believe regarding whether ratings themselves in TV show are telling if show is good or not.
TV ratings dont reflect necessarily if movie, live show or in pokemon case anime has high quality and witty writing weived in to it or not. Because many cleverly written TV shows known for original, flexible and nuanced plot and character dynamic dont manage sometime to fight for their place in market ending run over by competition. To the point of becoming obscure or cancelled.
Ratings themselves may not directly tell what was cause behind their decrease or increase.
But based on how they fluctiate can serve as guidance in letting production team know if they are doing enough profficient job to keep people interested in show theyre making. If there needs to be introduced new angle in series and potentially take in account their cutomer needs, disappointments and approval giving writers rough idea of what would be worth keeping or reviving and what wouldnt.
Yeah, agreed. Don't forget that the Love Hina anime basically got killed off due to loss of money and possibly a loss of ratings as well. And Heroes basically got killed off due to both loss of ratings and at the very least the bad writing of the third season catching up with it, if not the bad writing of the fourth season. Even if ratings aren't the be-all-end-all answer to whether a show's popular, they certainly play a major role.
In essence each of us needs to ask himself this very simple, but basic question. What are ratings?
Standard answer would be: they are statistic through which its measured how much anime or show is watched on television. Ratings are reflection of viewers habits and if some product in TV industry appealed to them or not.
Which depends on how succesful company was in promoting their product advertizing anime to people out there. How dedicated and loyal viewers are and if show is welcomed with positive or negative reception, what kind of reactions certain moves made by writers invoke among their customers.
But if we look beyond that, ratings can also serve as indirect insight in general feeling and attachment people have for some anime or show. How much someone as viewers is dedicated toward anime company produtr and what kind of atmosphere prevails among fans.
Agreed with that. Heck, the ratings decreased during the time of AG (and considering ratings jumped up a bit when Misty reappeared, it's definitely due to Misty's removal, at least in part), and the Contests made it worse.
Sure we can say how drop in natality, appearance of internet and various illegal ways to watch pokemon episodes as well fad dying out contributed in pokemon anime losing its popularity over the years.
But all of this issues applies to other kids TV shows and anime like Curious George,Doraemon, Detective Conan, Fairy Tail etc as mentioned before yet they still maintain higher popularity showing how public opinion and people expectations from some anime have influence in how much your product will be popular or not.
Yeah, and besides, I'm not sure the fad's even dying out in Japan at least. After all, it's basically to Japan what Star Trek or Star Wars is here in the West. Yet if the ratings are that bad with Japan despite the fad being very strong there, it's clear something's wrong with the show itself. The only anime even lower than it in terms of ratings is Dragonball Z Kai, and even then, that's already out of the door anyways (as it's basically at the Majin Buu arc, near the end of the manga, in other words, and since it has significantly reduced filler compared to the original series, that basically means it's even closer to the end than usual).
Because we cannot deny how some of unpopular moves based on huge amount of complaining, questioning and disappointment among pokemon viewers (popular characters being replaced with unfinished story and unused potential like Misty, Ash regression in Unova series, repetition and predictable storyline) could had contributed in drop of pokemon remaining more popular and succesful than its case now keeping days of golden glory for longer time.
Thus having much higher ratings and position on list of top most liked anime in Japan and outside of it than its case now.
Since quality and people being satisafied or not have important say in how well some product in TV industry is gonna be received.
Yeah, agreed with that. I also should note that another unpopular thing the writers did was basically doing the girl swap for eyecandy purposes as Hidaka mentioned (I know when this was first made official in an interview with Pokebeach there was a huge uproar and a lot of angry comments on Bulbagarden, and there may have been fans who suspected that was the case as well long beforehand. I know I did). Basically, they actually should try to actually retain their fans instead of pandering to the lowest common denominator, as their current actions are basically driving people away from the show. They also shouldn't treat their audiences, long-time fans and casual viewers alike, with cynicism, since that's also driving people away from the show.
Crux of the matter is:
A): are writers doing enough to attract new generation of kids toward anime? Did those in charge took in account how much TV industry changed keeping up with modern times? Do producers take in account general feel of their viewers?
Based on the fact that Pokémon is, aside from outside streamings such as WatchCartoonsOnline.com, also being streamed from official channels such as Pokémon.com and Netflix, and it's STILL getting bad ratings (come on, most of the other shows, as you pointed out DBZ Fan, get much better ratings than Pokémon is getting DESPITE these things), yes, they did take into account how much TV industry has changed and kept up with modern times, and that STILL didn't work out well.
For instance in today day and age there exist plethora of anime out there with similar themes such as pokemon. Just take a look at Youkai Watch, Digimon, Bakugan, Beyblade etc.
So in order for pokemon to compete with new shows with similar themes adventure about magical creatures and kids exploring world wont be enough to garner attention from new kids toward it. Requiring to change its dynamic and direction in which story , plot and characters will flow to keep more people attracted toward it.
Yeah, agreed. Although we also need to be careful about that, because that may backfire and result in the show's cancellation. After all, Heroes tried to do that by making Claire Bennet into a Lesbian, an experimental one at least, and also revealed Noah Bennet as considering adultery, and that proved to be it's final season.
B): On other hand has pokemon company took in consideration possibility to compensate for loss of target audience by broadening pokemon series interest to wider group of people regaining thrust and respectr from older viewers?
Keeping fans loyal toward pokemon series or bringing back those whom stopped watching. As result of ending upset and disappointed with writers moves and lack of concrete storytelling through which Ash and his companions would have direction to thrive toward?
Yeah, agreed, that may be what needs to be done. Especially when the writers basically grew cynical about their audiences by the time of AG, certainly DP, especially regarding the female leads.
Because doing more concrete development with Ash character exploring on his story which many veterans yearned for years.
Bringing back popular older characters increasing continuity, strengthening pokemon storyline and Ash development by giving insight in events and factors which mold his personality and journey over the years.
Have people enjoy in past important characters they liked, their dynamic fluid personalities, new fun adventures through whic hthey would be updated and receive sequel to their pending dreams and storylines which are unfinished. Acknowledging their existence and strong friendship with Ash not remaining just faded memory.
Instead of leaving all that potential to make them grow forward through new ideas and plots introduced through games(like mega evolution , World tournament etc)go to waste focusing constantly on new, but forgetting started work made with past protagonists which have plenty of material left to work with and bring groundbreaking changes to main plot.
Shake up format and direction in which pokemon series are taken breaking patterns and introducing new challenges.
Would increase pokemon reputation and satisfaction among customers spreading positive review through word of mouth to other people. Serving as chain link in potentially expanding on number of people willing to go back to some show establishing loyal and respectful toward writers work fanbase.
Compensating for decreased number of new generations of kids getting into pokemon filling up empty places that way. Which doesnt sound like bad idea.
Yeah, agreed with all of that. Pokémon's not the Simpsons. The Simpsons has a floating timeline, where canon generally doesn't matter and there's little overarching goal in the show. Pokémon is about a person trying to compete in leagues, learn about Pokémon, and trying to become a Pokémon Master, as well as his friends trying to accomplish similar goals. That would strongly imply a show with a huge emphasis on continuity, and certainly a show with a cohesive timeline. Certainly, it would imply a show that actually does have their characters age (even Tecmo's Dead or Alive series has recently done an age-up of the characters as of Dead or Alive 5). So yes, having a show that has their characters develop (and more than simply getting better in a regional league or grand festival or whatever), has strong continuity, actually doing original plots while at the same time focusing on the games the show is promoting, and when characters leave, make sure they actually are going to fulfill their goals offscreen rather than leave their stories unfinished, and others would most certainly help the show. The writers may realize this as well since they are doing some references to the original series within the show.
