Pokemon XY's rating

[Famon]

Let's see

I'm talking in Japan and I'm talking aout an period of 15 years. Is clear than in 15 years Japan has increased the number of people contracting pay TV. And birthdates are really low in Japan, way more than in the US.
US: 13% of people with more than 65.
Japan: 24% people with more than 65.


Neither AG nor DP have actual big ratings!? With the exception of Battle Frontier (who is a filler saga, to begin) those are have high ratings.




Even though I know of animation based on Mario, there's so few animation regarding those series. And of course, neither of those series doesn't look to be successful.


By your theory, only Sazae-San would have great ratings. Shows like Doraemon and Shin Cham (whoboth are very popular in Japan (also they air together)) would only have average ratings...

Even Youkai Watch, one of the hot thing in Japan for the latest 10 years, would have below average ratings... Seriously!?




gible is the first stage of a pseudo-legendary line. Ash hasn't evolved his Gible into Gabite, let alone Garchomp.


The japanese episode didn't have the word "date" or similar words.
カスミ真剣勝負！命かけます！？ Kasumi's Earnest Struggle! She's Risking her Life!?
While the episode with the title "Date Expectations"
(Jap. title)ころがれ！恋するドンファン！ Rollout! Loving Donfan!
is about romance... between Donphan.


Serena wants to be with Ash.

Spoiler:

(Inlcudes content from XY53) It actually was the main reason to go on a journey (apart of evading Rhyhorn Racing).

Edit: A few more things:
1) Pokemon is a show
A) Whose main target is children, who they are actually less than 10% of the population on japan. Meaning that a 4,5% show would have more than 45% ratings on children (this isn't actually true, teens and some adults (mothers of children in particular) also watch the show.
B) Airs in a Tv Tokyo, channel with less general viewership.
C) Airs on a Thursday, which is a worse day than Friday Saturday or Sunday for children.
2) If the Pokemon anime needs a boost on TV ratings (which is likely that they would need) replacing cast members is more probable to re-introduce a former companion than replacing Ash Ketchum.
3) Replacing Ash and Pikachu is a very high risk move. There's a reason why even in BW, they didn't replace Ash and Pikachu.

A Small question--

Do You think Pokemon XY Series rating & Merchandise Sales might improve if this series become more like Pokemon Doujin : Festival of Champion ???

Here some pic--

Spoiler:

Some trivia--

--Red has the same personality as Original Ash But he's far more developed then Ash.

--Misty competing in the Pokemon League as a Gym-Leader ! It seem Gym-Leader can freely participate in Pokemon League .

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

A Small question--

Do You think Pokemon XY Series rating & Merchandise Sales might improve if this series become more like Pokemon Doujin : Festival of Champion ???

Here some pic--

Spoiler:

Some trivia--

--Red has the same personality as Original Ash But he's far more developed then Ash.

--Misty competing in the Pokemon League as a Gym-Leader ! It seem Gym-Leader can freely participate in Pokemon League .

I appreciate your trying to help, but I need to remind you that that's a Doushinji, which is basically Japanese fanfiction manga. The games and even the Anime made very clear that Gym Leaders cannot participate in the leagues (otherwise, there would have been no need for Koga to leave his daughter with the gym and become an Elite 4 member).

 

[IrregularMaverickZ]

Let's see

I'm talking in Japan and I'm talking aout an period of 15 years. Is clear than in 15 years Japan has increased the number of people contracting pay TV. And birthdates are really low in Japan, way more than in the US.
US: 13% of people with more than 65.
Japan: 24% people with more than 65.


Neither AG nor DP have actual big ratings!? With the exception of Battle Frontier (who is a filler saga, to begin) those are have high ratings.


Even though I know of animation based on Mario, there's so few animation regarding those series. And of course, neither of those series doesn't look to be successful.


By your theory, only Sazae-San would have great ratings. Shows like Doraemon and Shin Cham (whoboth are very popular in Japan (also they air together)) would only have average ratings...

Even Youkai Watch, one of the hot thing in Japan for the latest 10 years, would have below average ratings... Seriously!?

Yeah, @Eureka (or may i say, Eievui-Nymphia). The birthrate is another factor, but another one (and is one that may piss off every pokefan and make them hate YW franchise if that comes to USA) is that, according to japanese preschoolers and primary students, Pokemon is dying down because of its whiny, angry and complaining fanbase. So, bad opinions in Japan regarding fanbase and people who buy and paly the games hinders the future for the franchise.

As for YW Ratings, in dec. 15 - dec. 18 week it almost reached the 10% milestone.

And given Digimon Adventure Tri is gonna be broadcasted on Fuji TV as a replacement for Dragon Ball Kai, well, it's pretty much assumed it would have higher ratings than Pokemon and even backed up by One Piece suddenly spike (it's dangerously returning to have 10% ratings, and that pretty much backs up the preceeding show on the Strong 9 block).

Another thing that makes me think this would be the last Satoshi's adventure, its because XY is the 1st series to have none of the openings/endings sung by Rica Matsumoto, instead, they're sung by pop artists (Yuusuke Kamiji, Tomohisa Sako, J'Deez, Shokotan). Dragon Ball GT in its runtime prety much was like a doomed franchise since the start because, besides of the last minute plots it had that series, it hadn't their insignia singer Hironobu Kageyama singing the op/ed, but J-Rock artists instead. That pretty much made the audience to lose interest. And Japanese people tends to be more traditionalist regarding seiyuus and OP/ED too in famed animes.

But pretty much, Serena vs Saki episode, going out of top 10 and even with less than 3,9%, and EVEN it wasn't broadcasted on x-mas week (so, I think, Kojirou and Maaika vs Calamanero episode would have between 3,5 and 2,0% because of X-Mas) made things pretty grim for next year (and by saying grim, I mean ratings in the 2,8% - 1,5%).

Serena wants to be with Ash.

Spoiler:

(Inlcudes content from XY53) It actually was the main reason to go on a journey (apart of evading Rhyhorn Racing).

Is that true??(regarding PM Subs from ep 53)?? Because if it's the main reason to be with Satoshi, then production staff would better dig their graves because that would be a point of no return to the status quo for the shipping subplot.

 

[Eureka]

Unless it's firmly within two digits, it's not big ratings. NCIS managed to pull off an 18 by Nielsen ratings, for instance.

18% ratings is not big rating. They are spectacular rating in the US. And almost everywhere.
Note (for if you see a "rating" of 18%: In Many countries there aren't using ratings (% of people who is watching the program/% of people who usually watches TV) but the term "share" (% of people who is watching the program/% of people who is watching on TV at the same time).
Japan does the former. US does the former with a rather complex system. Europe usually does the latter.

My point is all those shows were made to market the games just like Pokémon's anime was to market the games, yet if those franchises could succeed despite the failure of those TV franchises, the Pokémon games most certainly can succeed as well.

With the exception that none of those animes ahave been never relevant to begin.

Look, the lowest rated AG episode, and at the time, the lowest rated episode ever, was the Pike Queen episode (which was about 7 at best, the estimate closer to being 6). The highest rated episode of not only the Original Series, but also for the overall Anime, The Flame Pokémon-athon, was a 17. The anime has to at least reach Johto's levels, if not Kanto's to actually have high ratings. And for the record, as Famon pointed out, those shows are doing more well than Pokémon.

The Lucy episode have a rating of 4,2% (which was the lowest at that time). Also, it airs on May 1st in Japan (Golden Week)

It's still a Pseudo-legendary, so it still counts.

Only the final pre-evolutions are actually pseudo-legendaries.

And of course, The first episode (the Hoso episode with Misty and Casey have undertone of MistyxTracey shipping, but nothing huge) and the AG episode with Donphan have an actual "date".

Pokemon hasn't had a date episode in all of his history.

Pokemon hasn't had a date episode in all of his history until at least Thursday 5th Febraury, 19:00 JST.

 

[Famon]

I appreciate your trying to help, but I need to remind you that that's a Doushinji, which is basically Japanese fanfiction manga. The games and even the Anime made very clear that Gym Leaders cannot participate in the leagues (otherwise, there would have been no need for Koga to leave his daughter with the gym and become an Elite 4 member).

When did I tried to help you ??? I don't even know what you guys are arguing about !
I just wanted to know if Pokemon XY rating will increase if they make the Anime more like that Doujin!!!
I won't mind a 25 episode long League conference ! Its better then 25 episode of Da Journey .
Plus , It actually impossible to create a Proper League in just 5 episode unless its rushed and Ash going to be Top 8 again.

 

[Poke425]

3) Replacing Ash and Pikachu is a very high risk move. There's a reason why even in BW, they didn't replace Ash and Pikachu.

Um, the argument that replacing ash and Pikachu is a high risk move is just an excuse made by the writers and producers. The current audience watching the anime are probably aren't even interested in Ash or his Pikachu since Ash (or the protagonist Ash is based on) isn't even in the current games.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

18% ratings is not big rating. They are spectacular rating in the US. And almost everywhere.
Note (for if you see a "rating" of 18%: In Many countries there aren't using ratings (% of people who is watching the program/% of people who usually watches TV) but the term "share" (% of people who is watching the program/% of people who is watching on TV at the same time).
Japan does the former. US does the former with a rather complex system. Europe usually does the latter.

Actually, that is fairly big. And that's not even the highest rated episode (I know it got a 20 once, maybe a 21).

With the exception that none of those animes ahave been never relevant to begin.

Actually, they're not "animes" as they are American-made. And those cartoons actually were relevant (heck, most people viewed Sonic as a childish narcissist thanks largely to the SATAM cartoons until Sonic Adventure set it straight, being the first video game to feature voice acting and also the first to actually demonstrate that what the SATAM cartoons claimed was in fact wrong, and those cartoons actually did get some things included in the mainstream games, like Sonic's love of Chili Dogs).

The Lucy episode have a rating of 4,2% (which was the lowest at that time). Also, it airs on May 1st in Japan (Golden Week)

And how exactly does that mean anything? NCIS aired its holiday episodes on the week of thanksgiving, yet that doesn't negatively impact its ratings at all.

Only the final pre-evolutions are actually pseudo-legendaries.

Okay, I just looked up Goodra, and actually, there's no indication that Ash is even going to catch it, or has.

And of course, The first episode (the Hoso episode with Misty and Casey have undertone of MistyxTracey shipping, but nothing huge) and the AG episode with Donphan have an actual "date".

Pokemon hasn't had a date episode in all of his history.

All I know is the Luvdisc Hoso definitely set Pokeshippers off crazy due to the implications of Orangeshipping being made canon, and Date with Delcatty's Japanese title did create some confusion, with one topic even being made on here asking whether Misty actually did risk her life in the episode. All I can tell you is, don't put much stock in the titles or previews, especially when Pokémon has given misleading titles and previews in the past (and just because they haven't done one in regards to love doesn't mean they won't.).

 

[Famon]

Have Anyone notice that the Series trying to hype Us about Ash's new Goomy ???
It was spoiled 3 or 4 month before the actual episode.
Plus , There is a whole page on Goomy ! Not Just in One Magazine But in Two Magazine .
Also , Making it debut in the 1st episode of 2015 ! With a brand new Opening.
It seem Goomy happen to be Writer/Director's trump card .
After all , Goomy is a very popular Pokemon ! And Its evolution Goodra look like another ''Barney The Dinosaur'' .
Plus , Goodra is nowhere near Psuedo-Legendary Pokemon like Dragonite , Metagross , Garchamp and Salamence.
Even Tyranitar seem stronger then Goodra.
That explain Why Ash is ''Allow'' to have it !
I guess , The Anime Stuff is putting their faith on Goomy & Goodra to increase the Merchandise sales .

Okay, I just looked up Goodra, and actually, there's no indication that Ash is even going to catch it, or has.

Its pretty much spoiled that Ash is going to catch Goomy at magazine scan ! And The lacked Script and Cake revealed Goomy to evolve into Goodra near future.

 

[IrregularMaverickZ]

Plus , Goodra is nowhere near Psuedo-Legendary Pokemon like Dragonite , Metagross , Garchamp and Salamence.
Even Tyranitar seem stronger then Goodra.
That explain Why Ash is ''Allow'' to have it !
I guess , The Anime Stuff is putting their faith on Goomy & Goodra to increase the Merchandise sales .



Its pretty much spoiled that Ash is going to catch Goomy at magazine scan ! And The lacked Script and Cake revealed Goomy to evolve into Goodra near future.

Actually, Numelgon is a pseudo legendary because it has base status of 600 (similar to Kairyuu, Bangiras, Bohmander, Metagros, Gaburias and Sazandra). But compared to others, it's advantages are in the high defense and sp. attack.

So, given that they are hyping things for the 1st pseudo legendary of Satoshi, then it would mean they're desperatedly for more marketing revenue. However I think, this movement would backfire, Satoshi needs sooner than later a Mega Shinka for promotion things.

 

[Famon]

Actually, Numelgon is a pseudo legendary because it has base status of 600 (similar to Kairyuu, Bangiras, Bohmander, Metagros, Gaburias and Sazandra). But compared to others, it's advantages are in the high defense and sp. attack.

So, given that they are hyping things for the 1st pseudo legendary of Satoshi, then it would mean they're desperatedly for more marketing revenue. However I think, this movement would backfire, Satoshi needs sooner than later a Mega Shinka for promotion things.

If only Writer/Director would allow it !
Because Now Writer/Director trying avoid Ash from Megevolution because it will make him too special & Powerful.
For some reason , Writer/Director are obsessed with making Ash an Everyman character ! They are hesitant to make Ash as strong as Paul or give him rare pokemon even if they would give free Dragonite & Tokekiss to Iris & Dawn .
So Tell me , Who won't the rating & Merchandise sales decrease ? Writer/Director doesn't seem to understand that their Ideal ''Everyman'' Character are mainly used in Visual Harem Anime.
You know , The So called Harem Anime with ''Not So Special Protagonist'' that score every single girl with his infinite Kindness.
Difference is , Ash score Pokemons in place of Girls .
Writer/Director need to understand that In Animes like Pokemon , The Protagonist has to be special even if he start as an Underdog like Naruto.

If only they notice that the Rating dropped even more after Shalure Gym battle because most Viewer lost hope in Ash processing Megevolution.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Yeah, @Eureka (or may i say, Eievui-Nymphia). The birthrate is another factor, but another one (and is one that may piss off every pokefan and make them hate YW franchise if that comes to USA) is that, according to japanese preschoolers and primary students, Pokemon is dying down because of its whiny, angry and complaining fanbase. So, bad opinions in Japan regarding fanbase and people who buy and paly the games hinders the future for the franchise.

I knew that Pokémon's broken fanbase would one day destroy the series they cherish, along with broken fanbases of any long-running franchises for that matter. Regardless, I've seen people claiming many times that this is Ash's last adventure since Gen IV, but that self-fulfilling prophecy never came to be, because the anime is still doing well despite not having ratings as high as they use to be.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

I knew that Pokémon's broken fanbase would one day destroy the series they cherish, along with broken fanbases of any long-running franchises for that matter. Regardless, I've seen people claiming many times that this is Ash's last adventure since Gen IV, but that self-fulfilling prophecy never came to be, because the anime is still doing well despite not having ratings as high as they use to be.

The writers brought it upon themselves the moment they not only removed Misty, but then treated their own audiences with cynicism by thinking that simply by making their girl character merely pretty faces and fanservice objects, the audiences can lap them up, eyecandy as Masamitsu Hidaka. This decline began with AG, and even Takeshi Shudo predicted this would be the end result, so no, don't blame the fanbase. We tried to warn them, but they didn't listen.

Is that true??(regarding PM Subs from ep 53)?? Because if it's the main reason to be with Satoshi, then production staff would better dig their graves because that would be a point of no return to the status quo for the shipping subplot.

Yeah, agreed. Besides, Amourshipping (AshxSerena) is actually pretty unpopular in Japan from what I heard, at least among Doushinji writers, or at least those at Comiket 87. Following AllThingsMisty/Hanada City on Tumblr, I learned from a Tumblr user named 0negirlarmy that, according to one Doushinji writer, named Teppo, Pokeshipping-related Doushinji are actually still very popular in Japan and selling like hotcakes (in fact, a PS-related doushinji she wanted to get had actually been sold out at Comiket 87 by the time she got there, which strongly supports this). Anyways, only two Amourshipping Doushinji artists were accounted for at that convention (and this is despite it being the current season), and apparently one of the PS Doushinji claimed that, at least from what she could tell, Amourshipping is not even that popular. You can read it up here: http://allthingsmisty.tumblr.com/post/106665584687/about-the-pokeshipping-contestshipping-doujin-was

Now, I'm no Pokeshipper myself (since Ash and Misty didn't fall for each other at first sight, which is kind of a requirement for me to get behind a ship since at least my time watching Disney films and also reading Romeo and Juliet), but it does seem to be one of the more popular ships even in Japan, and besides which, there were more hints at Ash and Misty being a couple than Serena and Ash (since at least there were behaviorisms from both Ash and Misty at times where they did seem to have some romantic feelings for each other, while Serena's views on Ash from what I gathered are one-sided at best.).

 

[Lizardo]

I knew that Pokémon's broken fanbase would one day destroy the series they cherish, along with broken fanbases of any long-running franchises for that matter. Regardless, I've seen people claiming many times that this is Ash's last adventure since Gen IV, but that self-fulfilling prophecy never came to be, because the anime is still doing well despite not having ratings as high as they use to be.

It's not something limited to this fandom. Any long-running franchise like this one always comes with people constantly predicting the end for whatever biased reason ("if the writers did the show the way I want it done, things would be better. Because my vision of the series is what's best for everyone," is what it'll all boil down to), and it's a huge reason as to why I find it hard to take most ratings discussion seriously. I've seen fans predicting the end of the anime - or, at least, Satoshi's place in it - for over a decade now, only for it to continue on anyway. But I guess that as long as you continue to claim that the anime is ending soon, you'll be right eventually.

But the idea that an anime franchise that's been running for 17 years and counting can be considered a failure because ratings haven't remained as high as they were back in the late '90s/early '00s, despite having been a consistent presence on the air regardless, doesn't make much sense to me. Pocket Monsters/Satoshi's story was always going to have to end sometime, simply because nothing stays around forever. And at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. If this anime is really in any kind of trouble, it's their problem to solve. There is nothing any of us here can do about it.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

It's not something limited to this fandom. Any long-running franchise like this one always comes with people constantly predicting the end for whatever biased reason ("if the writers did the show the way I want it done, things would be better. Because my vision of the series is what's best for everyone," is what it'll all boil down to), and it's a huge reason as to why I find it hard to take most ratings discussion seriously. I've seen fans predicting the end of the anime - or, at least, Satoshi's place in it - for over a decade now, only for it to continue on anyway. But I guess that as long as you continue to claim that the anime is ending soon, you'll be right eventually.

It's not just the fans who think this, though: Takeshi Shudo, Mayumi Iizuka, and even Meowth's VA voiced similar opinions, and they aren't simply fans, but also people actually involved with the show. And either way, 9% is NOT a good sense of ratings at all, let alone as good as the first seasons.

But the idea that an anime franchise that's been running for 17 years and counting can be considered a failure because ratings haven't remained as high as they were back in the late '90s/early '00s, despite having been a consistent presence on the air regardless, doesn't make much sense to me. Pocket Monsters/Satoshi's story was always going to have to end sometime, simply because nothing stays around forever. And at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. If this anime is really in any kind of trouble, it's their problem to solve. There is nothing any of us here can do about it.

Just because the Anime hasn't met its end yet doesn't change the really bad policies its made that's coming very close to destroying the Anime. Don't forget, Disney hasn't gone bankrupt or gotten shut down under Eisner, yet he came so close to doing so and doing a lot of unpopular decisions that the Disney Shareholders were eventually forced to fire him after he made one mistake too many, and there is similar problems being done under Iger's watch. DreamWorks hasn't even gotten many successful films yet, and while under your definition it's successful only because it hasn't been shut down yet, it's also pretty clear that a lot of Katzenberg's management and business-running is actually causing it to go under (the only film successes it has is Madagascar, Shrek, and How to Train Your Dragon 2. Even then, only Madagascar is closer to a guaranteed success, as Shrek burned out by the third film, and How to Train Your Dragon 2 effectively flopped.), not to mention any attempted business deals it makes ends up being ruined as a result. While a business being shut down or going bankrupt is definitely an obvious sign that it's a failure, it's far from the only sign.

 

[Lizardo]

It's not just the fans who think this, though: Takeshi Shudo, Mayumi Iizuka, and even Meowth's VA voiced similar opinions, and they aren't simply fans, but also people actually involved with the show.

And where have any of them said that the anime was in danger of being cancelled?

And either way, 9% is NOT a good sense of ratings at all, let alone as good as the first seasons.

You missed the point.

I'm not going to make a statement on the ratings because (and I've said this) it's not my concern nor is it my problem to solve. The issue I have is that ratings discussions are less motivated by any real concern for the series, and more motivated by people who see this as an opportunity to "prove" that the direction they want the series to go in is what's ultimately going to save things. It makes me skeptical of any statements made about the anime's future - especially the doomsayers claiming the series is going to end, who've been around since the OS days - because it's clear there's a huge bias behind it.

Ratings could be dropping for anything up to, and including, the fact that this is a long-running franchise and nothing is going to stay popular and profitable forever. Unless real research has been made, which would ultimately involve resources that I'm sure aren't available to anyone speaking in this thread, it can ultimately mean anything. And demanding the writers take a series in whatever direction doesn't really do anything to change that.

I've seen this discussion play out in other fandoms like this one, and it's always the same exact same thing every time.

Just because the Anime hasn't met its end yet doesn't change the really bad policies its made that's coming very close to destroying the Anime.

And here's what I'm talking about. Exactly what proof do you really have that the anime is being destroyed? Unless I missed something significant, no one currently working with the anime now has come out and said or even hinted that it's being cancelled. You mention ratings, fine, but XY is still continuing to air just the same. What signs are there that things are coming to a close?

 

[Famon]

I'm wondering if Pokemon XY rating will increase if this Anime became more like ''B2W2 Animated Promo'' Or ''Pokemon Doujin : Festival of Champion''.
I'm dying to scene like this between Ash and an Antagonist--

Spoiler:

 

[IrregularMaverickZ]

I knew that Pokémon's broken fanbase would one day destroy the series they cherish, along with broken fanbases of any long-running franchises for that matter. Regardless, I've seen people claiming many times that this is Ash's last adventure since Gen IV, but that self-fulfilling prophecy never came to be, because the anime is still doing well despite not having ratings as high as they use to be.

Ratings could be dropping for anything up to, and including, the fact that this is a long-running franchise and nothing is going to stay popular and profitable forever. Unless real research has been made, which would ultimately involve resources that I'm sure aren't available to anyone speaking in this thread, it can ultimately mean anything. And demanding the writers take a series in whatever direction doesn't really do anything to change that.

I've seen this discussion play out in other fandoms like this one, and it's always the same exact same thing every time.


And here's what I'm talking about. Exactly what proof do you really have that the anime is being destroyed? Unless I missed something significant, no one currently working with the anime now has come out and said or even hinted that it's being cancelled. You mention ratings, fine, but XY is still continuing to air just the same. What signs are there that things are coming to a close?

It's more about mkt revenues than ratings.

However since 2013's summer in Japan, there were signs that Pokemon was fading too strongly in Japan. According to 2 surveys:

Video Research (videor.co.jp) (yeah, the company that provides tv ratings in Japan)

Video Research's X-Mas 2012 favorite series/character for kids had Pokemon placed on 6th of 20th place (the highest the franchise had on that marketing survey, and until that survey, Pokemon was always inside the upper top 10 of a top 20 of franchises in Japan since that survey was started in 2009), but 2013's summer survey had pokemon placing 13th of 20th, that year there wasn't X-Mas survey because of Sochi olympics, but 2014's summer survey had Pokemon placing even downer than that survey, 14th of 20th.

and Bandai/Cross Marketing survey (the most classical one, made by the biggest toy maker in Japan)

since the survey was made on 1996 Pokemon was placing very high on Bandai's surveys. Even in Advance Generation, when ratings reached an all time low for that age (The tube queen Azami ep had 4,0%), marketing surveys still placed Pokemon very high (always inside top 5). Last time Pokemon had a pole position place was in 2013 when Episode N was being aired (3rd of 10), but past year Pokemon fell down too harshly on the 8th place according to that survey.

So, if you count the marketing survey for kids... Pokemon actually is doing very very badly. Very much like Dragon Ball GT post Giru in Machine Planet M2 chapters.

The writers brought it upon themselves the moment they not only removed Misty, but then treated their own audiences with cynicism by thinking that simply by making their girl character merely pretty faces and fanservice objects, the audiences can lap them up, eyecandy as Masamitsu Hidaka. This decline began with AG, and even Takeshi Shudo predicted this would be the end result, so no, don't blame the fanbase. We tried to warn them, but they didn't listen.



Yeah, agreed. Besides, Amourshipping (AshxSerena) is actually pretty unpopular in Japan from what I heard, at least among Doushinji writers, or at least those at Comiket 87. Following AllThingsMisty/Hanada City on Tumblr, I learned from a Tumblr user named 0negirlarmy that, according to one Doushinji writer, named Teppo, Pokeshipping-related Doushinji are actually still very popular in Japan and selling like hotcakes (in fact, a PS-related doushinji she wanted to get had actually been sold out at Comiket 87 by the time she got there, which strongly supports this). Anyways, only two Amourshipping Doushinji artists were accounted for at that convention (and this is despite it being the current season), and apparently one of the PS Doushinji claimed that, at least from what she could tell, Amourshipping is not even that popular. You can read it up here: http://allthingsmisty.tumblr.com/post/106665584687/about-the-pokeshipping-contestshipping-doujin-was

Now, I'm no Pokeshipper myself (since Ash and Misty didn't fall for each other at first sight, which is kind of a requirement for me to get behind a ship since at least my time watching Disney films and also reading Romeo and Juliet), but it does seem to be one of the more popular ships even in Japan, and besides which, there were more hints at Ash and Misty being a couple than Serena and Ash (since at least there were behaviorisms from both Ash and Misty at times where they did seem to have some romantic feelings for each other, while Serena's views on Ash from what I gathered are one-sided at best.).

The true reality is that... none of the Anime!XY shippings are really popular because of the lower popularity that series has in Japan (and even SatoSere and [Yaoi/Bromance] SatoShito being the ones who outstands of that series, given the fewer people who follows that series, that is pretty much an understatement). So, it's understandable why SatoKasu and ShuuHaru are still really popular in Japan. They're pretty much established when the tsundere romance was on its peak in late 90's - late 00's time range.

And japanese people has another vision of romance. For a series centered on gag, slapstick comedy and nekketsu cliches "they hate each other superficially, but deep down they want to f**k very hardly every night" pairing is the de facto one (that's the reason because Ranma x Akane, Satoshi x Kasumi, Kyousuke & Kirino, and even NaruSaku before the heavy promotion NaruHina had this year. Even yaoi ones like Taichi x Yamato, Goku x Vegeta, Naruto x Sasuke and Satoshi x Shigeru are insanely popular because of them having a tsundere and dynamic trait). So, unless a more "normal and harmonious pairing" (very much like SatoSere, NaruHina, Goku x ChiChi "pre-Saiyajin saga" and other ones that i can't remembah ryt now) gets a heavy and blatant promotion on anime and movies, the "dynamic and tsundere one" is the de facto one and the fan favorite. They don't believe in love at first sight surprisingly. Goddammit, even Goku x Bulma was absurdely popular in late 80's (even Shounen Jump's editor in that year, Kazuhiko Torishima, wanted Toriyama to put both of them to be together despite the 4-year age difference, but Toriyama said f*** *** to the fans and his editor and decided to put him with ChiChi because he admits he sucks at writing romance development and he believed ChiChi fit Goku better).

It's not something limited to this fandom. Any long-running franchise like this one always comes with people constantly predicting the end for whatever biased reason ("if the writers did the show the way I want it done, things would be better. Because my vision of the series is what's best for everyone," is what it'll all boil down to), and it's a huge reason as to why I find it hard to take most ratings discussion seriously. I've seen fans predicting the end of the anime - or, at least, Satoshi's place in it - for over a decade now, only for it to continue on anyway. But I guess that as long as you continue to claim that the anime is ending soon, you'll be right eventually.

But the idea that an anime franchise that's been running for 17 years and counting can be considered a failure because ratings haven't remained as high as they were back in the late '90s/early '00s, despite having been a consistent presence on the air regardless, doesn't make much sense to me. Pocket Monsters/Satoshi's story was always going to have to end sometime, simply because nothing stays around forever. And at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. If this anime is really in any kind of trouble, it's their problem to solve. There is nothing any of us here can do about it.

Again, go to my first reply in this post. It's more about merchandising. Pokemon anime doesn't promote the games directly really, only the toy and other merchandising they release.

And then how One Piece, Detective Conan, Sazae-San, Doraemon and Shin Chan are longrunners and they have a very harmonious and cohesive fanbase with lots of new people still entering?Well, that's because Because they weren't exchanging the core cast every saga or generation with only mantaining the main male lead and his villanous counterpart only.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

And where have any of them said that the anime was in danger of being cancelled?

With Mayumi Iizuka and Meowth's VA, on their twitter blogs, and in the case of Takeshi Shudo, in his personal blogs which can be read up on Bulbanews/Bulbapedia. DBZ Fan may have to get you the specific tweet for Iizuka, though. I know Shudo's commentary made clear that what they were doing since AG was a huge mistake. TVTropes even pointed this out under Animation Age Ghetto.

You missed the point.

I'm not going to make a statement on the ratings because (and I've said this) it's not my concern nor is it my problem to solve. The issue I have is that ratings discussions are less motivated by any real concern for the series, and more motivated by people who see this as an opportunity to "prove" that the direction they want the series to go in is what's ultimately going to save things. It makes me skeptical of any statements made about the anime's future - especially the doomsayers claiming the series is going to end, who've been around since the OS days - because it's clear there's a huge bias behind it.

Oh, I have a concern for the series, and for the record, the "direction I want" is indeed what people like Mayumi Iizuka, Meowth's Japanese VA, and even Takeshi Shudo basically stated. If you want to be a nihilist, fine, but bear in mind the facts pretty much make clear what's causing the problem. And it has nothing to do with bias on my part. Even if I hated the original series, I STILL would have said that they should have gone the route the original series went. Even IF I hated Misty with all my guts, I still would have said she should have been kept on the show.

Ratings could be dropping for anything up to, and including, the fact that this is a long-running franchise and nothing is going to stay popular and profitable forever. Unless real research has been made, which would ultimately involve resources that I'm sure aren't available to anyone speaking in this thread, it can ultimately mean anything. And demanding the writers take a series in whatever direction doesn't really do anything to change that.

NCIS barely even has any dropped ratings, certainly not to the level Pokémon has suffered from right now or even way back in AG, and right now it's on it's 12th season, so no, it definitely isn't an instance of longetivity. And considering the ratings actually spiked when Misty returned, it's pretty clear that the drop in ratings had something to do with Misty's removal. Same with the other girls being removed. Heck, even the Simpsons has far better ratings than Pokémon does right now or back in AG, and that's basically undergoing some bumps as well and not doing that well, and it's up to its 26th Season.

And here's what I'm talking about. Exactly what proof do you really have that the anime is being destroyed? Unless I missed something significant, no one currently working with the anime now has come out and said or even hinted that it's being cancelled. You mention ratings, fine, but XY is still continuing to air just the same. What signs are there that things are coming to a close?

Bad ratings, the fact that Meowth's VA basically made clear that how they handled Meowth was a bad decision, Takeshi Shudo's blogs making clear that the direction being taken by the writers since AG if not late Johto basically will result in the show being killed off, even if in the long term, and Mayumi Iizuka's tweet about how the writers are ignoring Misty is a huge mistake. And honestly, unless they were planning a series finale, do you really think they would go out and say it especially if they want to maintain an illusion that it's still going strong? Disney was also bragged by its top members to be at its prime during the 2000s and not in danger of being cancelled, yet it ended up doing a lot of bad things that at the very least soured its reputation, if not gave it great financial harm, enough for Michael Eisner to get fired as a result and replaced with Bob Iger who is similarly putting it through a slump. Disney's still in existence, heck, even DreamWorks is still in existence, and this is despite their films being mostly flops that don't even stand the test of time (Shrek for instance is now being viewed with some disgust).

 

[Famon]

The true reality is that... none of the Anime!XY shippings are really popular because of the lower popularity that series has in Japan (and even SatoSere and [Yaoi/Bromance] SatoShito being the ones who outstands of that series, given the fewer people who follows that series, that is pretty much an understatement). So, it's understandable why SatoKasu and ShuuHaru are still really popular in Japan. They're pretty much established when the tsundere romance was on its peak in late 90's - late 00's time range.

And japanese people has another vision of romance. For a series centered on gag, slapstick comedy and nekketsu cliches "they hate each other superficially, but deep down they want to f**k very hardly every night" pairing is the de facto one (that's the reason because Ranma x Akane, Satoshi x Kasumi, Kyousuke & Kirino, and even NaruSaku before the heavy promotion NaruHina had this year. Even yaoi ones like Taichi x Yamato, Goku x Vegeta, Naruto x Sasuke and Satoshi x Shigeru are insanely popular because of them having a tsundere and dynamic trait). So, unless a more "normal and harmonious pairing" (very much like SatoSere, NaruHina, Goku x ChiChi "pre-Saiyajin saga" and other ones that i can't remembah ryt now) gets a heavy and blatant promotion on anime and movies, the "dynamic and tsundere one" is the de facto one and the fan favorite. They don't believe in love at first sight surprisingly. Goddammit, even Goku x Bulma was absurdely popular in late 80's (even Shounen Jump's editor in that year, Kazuhiko Torishima, wanted Toriyama to put both of them to be together despite the 4-year age difference, but Toriyama said f*** *** to the fans and his editor and decided to put him with ChiChi because he admits he sucks at writing romance development and he believed ChiChi fit Goku better).




Again, go to my first reply in this post. It's more about merchandising. Pokemon anime doesn't promote the games directly really, only the toy and other merchandising they release.

Honestly , I also believe that The Anime killed Amourshipping When The Director let Some ''Shoujo-Freak'' handle it.
Worst part is , Those Shoujo-freak chose ''Notice Me Sanpai'' Root ! The most boring Shoujo idea .
Before that , I believed it would be like Ash X Misty Or Ranma X Akane Because Serena knew Ash from the beginning .
I don't think Amourshipping fit as a Sole Romance ! It fit much better as One-sided Romance . Honestly Misty , Dawn & Angie fit much better as Sole heroin then Serena because they had much deeper Friendship with Ash.
If Director want Romance as a Subplot then They has create a Female Rival Character similar to Rika (Digimon Tamer) Or A rival version of Misty .
And They should do it now !

As For Megevolution Merchandise!
I don't think Kids gives a dam care about Some Alan flan and his Mega Charizard X.
Their eye is mainly toward the Real hero , Ash.
So , Director/Writer should gave Ash a Megevolved Pokemon before its too late .

Bottom line is , Director need to pick Misty Or Dawn as the main Heroin due to their better chemistry with Ash if they want Romance as Subplot And Ash need to get more Mischievous.

 

[Lizardo]

IrregularMaverickZ: You make a different point about the merchandizing that otherwise wasn't considered in this discussion, so we'll just have to see about what happens with XY. I don't know enough about how the business side of this franchise works to really argue with what you're saying.

Oh, I have a concern for the series, and for the record, the "direction I want" is indeed what people like Mayumi Iizuka, Meowth's Japanese VA, and even Takeshi Shudo basically stated. If you want to be a nihilist, fine, but bear in mind the facts pretty much make clear what's causing the problem. And it has nothing to do with bias on my part. Even if I hated the original series, I STILL would have said that they should have gone the route the original series went. Even IF I hated Misty with all my guts, I still would have said she should have been kept on the show.

You've mentioned the opinions of people who didn't agree with the direction the franchise is headed in, not exactly what I'm asking for. I want to know what they've said about the anime ending (and Takeshi Shudo really wouldn't count here, considering that he's dead).

And I hope that you'll forgive me for being skeptical of how much genuine concern you have for a series you've claimed not to watch anymore.

Heck, even the Simpsons has far better ratings than Pokémon does right now or back in AG, and that's basically undergoing some bumps as well and not doing that well, and it's up to its 26th Season.

I'll ignore the fact that new episodes of The Simpsons are aired in a different country towards a different demographic during a different day at a different time of that day on different network, and ratings between the two shouldn't be compared.

Despite the fact that their ratings and viewership arguably have declined even more than Pocket Monsters (both in viewership and quality - Pocket Monsters was never anything more than a mediocre show with occasional moments of greatness; The Simpsons used to actually be brilliant), The Simpsons still remains one of the tentpole programs of FOX's Sunday Night lineup (the other being Family Guy). This is with a loss of roughly twenty-three million viewers between the first season, 1989-1990, and the twenty-fifth, 2013-2014. And FOX still refuses to cancel the program. In fact, The Simpsons have already been renewed for a twenty-seventh season! This is why looking at ratings and loudly announcing the end without considering context doesn't give you the whole story.

Fans of The Simpsons and even someone who worked on that show have all come out talking about its decline, and it still remains on the air for the foreseeable future. The Simpsons only helps prove the points that long-running franchises get less popular over time and that fans of these things always get ahead of themselves announcing their end.

And honestly, unless they were planning a series finale, do you really think they would go out and say it especially if they want to maintain an illusion that it's still going strong?

No, but until such time as the anime is actually cancelled or shows clear signs of being so then it should be kept in mind that this is speculation, not fact. I'm not saying the situation is good or bad, or that I know what the future for the series is. I don't know how to judge that, and I really don't care.

I am saying that you're getting ahead of yourself in predicting it's cancellation. Yes, the anime is going to end at some point. No television show will last forever (and this is why talking about how an eventual cancellation of the anime at some undefined point in the future - the vaguely-defined "long-term" that you mentioned - proves this is dumb). But there should really be some greater hint that it's happening right now.