US Elections 2008: Debate the Issues

[Rudy23]

I know he suffered alot in that POW hell for 6 years, and never tlked but the mission in 'nam was anything but heroic (look up the massacres of innocent viatnemese by american troops). Atleast in WW2 we were fighting a REAL threat (Nazis, Japan, etc.), but in 'nam to many ppl lost their lives in a conflict that had no real positive outcome (much like our "war on terror")

 

[Red1530]

I know he suffered alot in that POW hell for 6 years, and never tlked but the mission in 'nam was anything but heroic (look up the massacres of innocent viatnemese by american troops). Atleast in WW2 we were fighting a REAL threat (Nazis, Japan, etc.), but in 'nam to many ppl lost their lives in a conflict that had no real positive outcome (much like our "war on terror")

So let me get this straight, you are saying that terrorists are not a threat like the Germans and Japanese were during World War II. Did you forget about the September 11 attacks, the worse attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor.

 

[supertails]

Theirs no just thing as a war hero. The first casualty of war is the truth. We don't go to war unless were tricked and you know what Nam wasn't met to be won it was met to go the distance. Wars are corporate lies and 911 was the biggest. No one benefited from it but the leaders in our country. It's ashame the Land of the Free became the Land of the Enslaved. I'd watch our flag burn for an hour before I saloot it again and guess what I was born and bread here. The American Dream is over, The American Nightmare as only just begun.

 

[Aurafire]

Theirs no just thing as a war hero. The first casualty of war is the truth. We don't go to war unless were tricked and you know what Nam wasn't met to be won it was met to go the distance. Wars are corporate lies and 911 was the biggest. No one benefited from it but the leaders in our country. It's ashame the Land of the Free became the Land of the Enslaved. I'd watch our flag burn for an hour before I saloot it again and guess what I was born and bread here. The American Dream is over, The American Nightmare as only just begun.

That is absolutely sickening. SICKENING! It's you kind of people that should be ashamed to call yourself an American.

No such thing as a war hero? Have you no respect for the brave men and women who fight for our safety EVERY SINGLE DAY? Every single one of our soldiers who is fighting or has fought in any war that the US has been involved in is a hero in my opinion. It takes a special kind of person to lay their life on the line, putting the greater good of their country above themselves. I can't even fathom the INCREDIBLE amount of ignorance that must be inside that mind of yours for you to disrespect millions and millions of veterans that have fought and died to protect the very freedoms that you enjoy EVERY SINGLE DAY? HAVE YOU NO RESPECT? HAVE YOU NO THANKFULNESS? Are you not aware that if not for the US military, we would not even be alive right now? You think that wars are waged for corporate and government gain? You are so wrong, I can't even believe that I am typing this right now. You think that 9/11 and the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention every other war in modern US history, are/were fought so that Bush and the "evil" big business corporations can benefit? You and your twisted mind think that America is broken and twisted and a former shadow of the greatness that it once was?

I have one message for you and people that share your views: Leave. Get out of here. I for one am ashamed that we live in a country where our very own citizens think that our own government and military are scum. Move to Canada. Move to Europe. Move to freakin Antarctica for all I care. If America has become "The land of the Enslaved" how can you bear to live, benefit, and enjoy the freedom that you and your kind take for granted? You make me sick.

And at least use proper grammar when sharing your disgusting and vile opinions. I'm fairly sure "saloot" isn't a word, and "born and bread" is also pretty confusing.

 

[supertails]

That is absolutely sickening. SICKENING! It's you kind of people that should be ashamed to call yourself an American.

No such thing as a war hero? Have you no respect for the brave men and women who fight for our safety EVERY SINGLE DAY? Every single one of our soldiers who is fighting or has fought in any war that the US has been involved in is a hero in my opinion. It takes a special kind of person to lay their life on the line, putting the greater good of their country above themselves. I can't even fathom the INCREDIBLE amount of ignorance that must be inside that mind of yours for you to disrespect millions and millions of veterans that have fought and died to protect the very freedoms that you enjoy EVERY SINGLE DAY? HAVE YOU NO RESPECT? HAVE YOU NO THANKFULNESS? Are you not aware that if not for the US military, we would not even be alive right now? You think that wars are waged for corporate and government gain? You are so wrong, I can't even believe that I am typing this right now. You think that 9/11 and the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention every other war in modern US history, are/were fought so that Bush and the "evil" big business corporations can benefit? You and your twisted mind think that America is broken and twisted and a former shadow of the greatness that it once was?

I have one message for you and people that share your views: Leave. Get out of here. I for one am ashamed that we live in a country where our very own citizens think that our own government and military are scum. Move to Canada. Move to Europe. Move to freakin Antarctica for all I care. If America has become "The land of the Enslaved" how can you bear to live, benefit, and enjoy the freedom that you and your kind take for granted? You make me sick.

And at least use proper grammar when sharing your disgusting and vile opinions. I'm fairly sure "saloot" isn't a word, and "born and bread" is also pretty confusing.

I'm a part of the Solution not the problem. It's people like me they fear. Bush and all of his little men are the only ones to benefit and I'll be moving to Canada but when everyone else sees what I see, I'll come down and fight with ya. I will love to instill a new government, free from the evil businesses. I'm guessing you never heard of War Corporatism. Let me tell you, 911 and all the wars we've been in has War Corporatism written all over them and I feel for those men too. They died to fight fictional enemies. 911 was a lie that killed over 3000 people, only leading to the deaths of millions of other people just because The Bush Family and all the other businesses didn't feel they had enough money. I hate this country and I'd love to see it as our forefathers made it but because of what happened in 1913 it'll never be the same. In 1913 was the year The USA became owned by the Banks and all the Wars since was to put millions of dollars into their wallets. We are no longer the country of free people but the country of the rich and the powerful. I am not proud to be an American because how can one be proud to kill for money. I know Bush and his men are. Bush is Hitler and his men and the businesses that caused this fake war are EVIL, EVIL men. Bush and his men are EVIL because they caused 911 and killed millions just for money. FDR was the same and all the other businesses kill every single day just to make money.

 

[Aurafire]

I'm a part of the Solution not the problem. It's people like me they fear. Bush and all of his little men are the only ones to benefit and I'll be moving to Canada but when everyone else sees what I see, I'll come down and fight with ya. I will love to instill a new government, free from the evil businesses. I'm guessing you never heard of War Corporatism. Let me tell you, 911 and all the wars we've been in has War Corporatism written all over them and I feel for those men too. They died to fight fictional enemies. 911 was a lie that killed over 3000 people, only leading to the deaths of millions of other people just because The Bush Family and all the other businesses didn't feel they had enough money. I hate this country and I'd love to see it as our forefathers made it but because of what happened in 1913 it'll never be the same. In 1913 was the year The USA became owned by the Banks and all the Wars since was to put millions of dollars into their wallets. We are no longer the country of free people but the country of the rich and the powerful. I am not proud to be an American because how can one be proud to kill for money. I know Bush and his men are. Bush is Hitler and his men and the businesses that caused this fake war are EVIL, EVIL men. Bush and his men are EVIL because they caused 911 and killed millions just for money. FDR was the same and all the other businesses kill every single day just to make money.

Yeah have fun with that buddy. I'll just be chilling with the other 99.9% of the entire US population who aren't complete lunatics.

 

[supertails]

Actually it's the other way away around.

 

[Aurafire]

Actually it's the other way away around.

Oh, I'm sorry. I almost forgot that the majority of the United States believes that 9/11 was an inside job. Of course, how could I be so silly! Conspiracy theorists obviously represent the overwhelming majority of the population.

If this is the case, if 99.9% of Americans believe that 9/11 was an inside job, I'd tend to think that we'd probably here more about how Bush and his evil henchmen killed 3,000 innocent people instead of islamic terrorists. But oh well, you're probably right. What was I thinking?

I'm not going to argue with you any more dude. There's is absolutely no point.

 

[supertails]

Actually I meant to say that 99.9% are lunatics and the other .1% like me are smart. I was meaning to reverse the insult from me to you. You called me a lunatic and I reserved it back to you.

 

[Cherrim]

Bush is Hitler and his men and the businesses that caused this fake war are EVIL, EVIL men. Bush and his men are EVIL because they caused 911 and killed millions just for money.

...you're comparing Bush to Hitler!? I can't be the only one who finds that horribly insulting. :| Listen, we don't CARE that you're a conspiracy theorist. Your reasoning is terrible and thoroughly unconvincing. You wanna bring that stuff up, do it in a separate thread so you can be argued with there or something (though you may have help considering some of the posts in the 9/11 thread this year <_<). Your spam is unneeded in this thread; it's both unneeded and irrelevant. And seriously--no comparing people to Hitler whether you know them or not. That's a very, very hefty accusation and I don't think you have enough of a claim to back that up anyway so watch what you say. (Strange, I have this odd feeling I've told you this before.)

Anyway, get on topic or get out of this thread. Go make a conspiracy thread in OC to keep yourself occupied if you have to. :|

 

[supertails]

I'll do that. Not only do I have enough of a claim, I have proof. We only punish the poor and weak now. Sure there were some celebes but the businesses and puallitions are above the law. I'm going to leave this alone now and going to the OC.

 

[Netto Azure]

Ok...I missed a lot during the night....

[SIZE=-1]The Federal Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](aka "The $700 Billion Golden Parachute for Wall.St)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]https://www.financialstandard.com.au/news/view/24130/[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Expected to pass today in Congress...the key points are:[/SIZE]

• Phased introduction of funding, with US$250 billion made available immediately to the US Treasury for purchase of problem assets. This amount could be increased to US$350 billion at the President's request.
• A limit of US$700 billion is set for all purchases and allows Congress to veto purchases above the limit.
• US taxpayers are given ownership interest in companies that take advantage of the bailout package.
• Profits from the sale of Government-owned assets, if any, will be used to retire the US federal debt and a portion set aside for a federal housing authority.
• The US Treasury secretary will coordinate with foreign financial authorities and central banks about establishing similar rescue programs.
• Limits excessive compensation and bonuses for executives at companies that sell mortgage assets to the Treasury. Companies that participate in the plan will be prohibited from offering 'golden parachutes' to their executives.
• A Board composed of the Federal Reserve Chairman, the Treasury Secretary and the Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Director of the Federal Home Finance Agency and the Housing and Urban Development Secretary, will oversee and monitor the implementation and progress of the bailout plan.

Thoughts???

Theirs no just thing as a war hero. The first casualty of war is the truth. We don't go to war unless were tricked and you know what Nam wasn't met to be won it was met to go the distance. Wars are corporate lies and 911 was the biggest. No one benefited from it but the leaders in our country. It's ashame the Land of the Free became the Land of the Enslaved. I'd watch our flag burn for an hour before I saloot it again and guess what I was born and bread here. The American Dream is over, The American Nightmare as only just begun.

I can see your pessimistic sentiments but that is why you try to improve it through reform NOT revolution...

I'm a part of the Solution not the problem. It's people like me they fear. Bush and all of his little men are the only ones to benefit and I'll be moving to Canada but when everyone else sees what I see, I'll come down and fight with ya. I will love to instill a new government, free from the evil businesses. I'm guessing you never heard of War Corporatism. Let me tell you, 911 and all the wars we've been in has War Corporatism written all over them and I feel for those men too. They died to fight fictional enemies. 911 was a lie that killed over 3000 people, only leading to the deaths of millions of other people just because The Bush Family and all the other businesses didn't feel they had enough money. I hate this country and I'd love to see it as our forefathers made it but because of what happened in 1913 it'll never be the same. In 1913 was the year The USA became owned by the Banks and all the Wars since was to put millions of dollars into their wallets. We are no longer the country of free people but the country of the rich and the powerful. I am not proud to be an American because how can one be proud to kill for money. I know Bush and his men are. Bush is Hitler and his men and the businesses that caused this fake war are EVIL, EVIL men. Bush and his men are EVIL because they caused 911 and killed millions just for money. FDR was the same and all the other businesses kill every single day just to make money.

Yes to some extent I agree to war as being a profiteering racket. But when FDR is dragged into this I'll have to disagree

That is absolutely sickening. SICKENING! It's you kind of people that should be ashamed to call yourself an American.

No such thing as a war hero? Have you no respect for the brave men and women who fight for our safety EVERY SINGLE DAY? Every single one of our soldiers who is fighting or has fought in any war that the US has been involved in is a hero in my opinion. It takes a special kind of person to lay their life on the line, putting the greater good of their country above themselves. I can't even fathom the INCREDIBLE amount of ignorance that must be inside that mind of yours for you to disrespect millions and millions of veterans that have fought and died to protect the very freedoms that you enjoy EVERY SINGLE DAY? HAVE YOU NO RESPECT? HAVE YOU NO THANKFULNESS? Are you not aware that if not for the US military, we would not even be alive right now? You think that wars are waged for corporate and government gain? You are so wrong, I can't even believe that I am typing this right now. You think that 9/11 and the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention every other war in modern US history, are/were fought so that Bush and the "evil" big business corporations can benefit? You and your twisted mind think that America is broken and twisted and a former shadow of the greatness that it once was?

I have one message for you and people that share your views: Leave. Get out of here. I for one am ashamed that we live in a country where our very own citizens think that our own government and military are scum. Move to Canada. Move to Europe. Move to freakin Antarctica for all I care. If America has become "The land of the Enslaved" how can you bear to live, benefit, and enjoy the freedom that you and your kind take for granted? You make me sick.

And at least use proper grammar when sharing your disgusting and vile opinions. I'm fairly sure "saloot" isn't a word, and "born and bread" is also pretty confusing.

I'll think about moving to Canada...;)

 

[Gunn]

Um, anyways, the bailout failed. Anyone else not surprised?

 

[Aurafire]

I'll think about moving to Canada...;)

But not because you hate America and think 9/11 was a hoax (I hope =P)

Um, anyways, the bailout failed. Anyone else not surprised?

Not really, the bill was rushed and had too many flaws. I'm no economist, so I really don't know what's the best way to deal with a problem like this.

 

[Gunn]

I'm no economist, so I really don't know what's the best way to deal with a problem like this.

One way to not handle it is by holding American tax payers liable for large corporation mistakes. What they should really do with that money is give it away in checks to people whose homes are heading towards foreclosure, those who really need the money, not to bail out those who are putting the economy down. I was against it the entire time. If it were done, I would have concluded the biggest robbery in history by the US government.

 

[Netto Azure]

Eh....

Um, anyways, the bailout failed. Anyone else not surprised?

https://online.wsj.com/article/SB122270285663785991.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_mostpop

I'm surprised...I totally expected the lobbyists to get this to pass...

Not really, the bill was rushed and had too many flaws. I'm no economist, so I really don't know what's the best way to deal with a problem like this.

I agree with you Aura..."Coincidentally" just like the 90+ Liberal Democrats and 100+ Conservative Republicans did this Morning...=P Rarely can you see such "Bi-Partisanship" in the opposite ends of the political spectrum in Congress...Hehhh =D

One way to not handle it is by holding American tax payers liable for large corporation mistakes. What they should really do with that money is give it away in checks to people whose homes are heading towards foreclosure, those who really need the money, not to bail out those who are putting the economy down. I was against it the entire time. If it were done, I would have concluded the biggest robbery in history by the US government.

You've seen what I've called it: "The $700 Billion Golden Parachute for Wall.St" and as I've said in the other thread Congress CAN create a much better Bill than this Corporate welfare/handout to Wall St. "Let the markets fix themselves" and "free-enterprise" and what-not...:P

 

[Melody]

It would seem that a fair number of people oppose the bill which has been proposed to save our economy. I've even heard people go as far as calling the bill "Unconstitutional and a step toward Socialism". It is not too drastic of a measure in my opinion, however I do wish that the government had given the bill more though than they have. I can only hope that if the bill does indeed pass that it does not put the nation in a bigger bind later...We do not want nor need another Great Depression.

 

[Gunn]

We do not want nor need another Great Depression.

That's only an exaggeration; the economy is more likely to go into a recession. I believe that Congress can formulate a better solution, but like Aurasphere mentioned, it was rushed, seeing that time is a factor here. I bet it would help Congress even more if politics weren't evolved.

 

[Red1530]

I came accross a YouTube video that explains how the Community Reinvestment Act help cause this mess. However it fails to mentions about the repeal of the Glass-Stegall Act which could of helped, in my opinion, prevent the current crises. This article, dated September 24, 2007, explans why we are in big trouble.

 

[Netto Azure]

Heh...

That's only an exaggeration; the economy is more likely to go into a recession. I believe that Congress can formulate a better solution, but like Aurasphere mentioned, it was rushed, seeing that time is a factor here. I bet it would help Congress even more if politics weren't evolved.

Hey its Gunn....Your username misled me. But yes Politics (Especially presidential) was certainly injected into this along with constituent discontent on the bill...The act was essentially Political suicide if voted for....So they'll try again...something will have to pass...yet it's going to be a severe recession but not a "Great Depression" (seriously I don't expect soup kitchens to pop up everywhere) since the Global Economy would never allow it....Many banks around the world were "Nationalized"...

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7643340.stm

Also a thought...Since mainstream media is shunned by conservatives by calling it "Liberal Media" and Progressives calling it "Corporate Media", does that mean that Mainstream media is Centrist? =P I'm not being serious, just a thought...