US Elections 2008: Debate the Issues

[Gunn]

Hey its Gunn....Your username misled me.

Mmmm, yes. Name change, ftw.

But yes Politics (Especially presidential) was certainly injected into this along with constituent discontent on the bill...The act was essentially Political suicide if voted for....So they'll try again...something will have to pass...yet it's going to be a severe recession but not a "Great Depression" (seriously I don't expect soup kitchens to pop up everywhere) since the Global Economy would never allow it....Many banks around the world were "Nationalized"...

Exactly, but it's really not going to help if everyone keeps pointing fingers at each other (or continue to blame Rep. Nancy Pelosi for bailout failure).

 

[Mooshykris]

*sigh* Can't we all just stop bashing eachother on everything?

I a quite offended on the way both candidates are being treated here.

I am a supporter of McCain, but I'm not disrespecting Obama either, and finding every thing I can to insult him.


Now, I would like to ask for a GOOD description on what you feel on some of their policies and beliefs, not just a biased flamewar.

My first issue I'd like to give my opinion on in depth:

Healthcare:

Alright, I'm mentioning this because after catching up on 5-6 more pages, this issue is bothering me now.

Many people are saying that it will be good, some say it will be bad. Well, why is it one of those two?


My opinion is that it is not a good thing. Overall, the taxing is the worst part. Alright, some people say higher taxes are the cost of this system. Okay, but one thing few answer,is what about the Middle Class like us?

My family only makes $50,000 a year, we have enough trouble holding together already. Higher taxes could make things even worse for us!

Also, the only question I have on this is: What about the people who are sitting on welfare, or such? Will we be taxing them too? Or is my family and the rest of the country stuck paying for them?


Mooshykris

 

[Netto Azure]

Economy....

Is it just me or does anybody else feel their just dreaming this historic event and election cycle...

Just as the economy took over the US Presidential/Congressional campaigns, it has taken over this thread...

I was thinking that since most average Americans have been comparing the past month to the Great Depression, does that mean that the Democrats will be swept into power again?

A timeline on what the heck happened according to BBC:
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7521250.stm

Why did the Bail-out fail (BBC):
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7643199.stm

-Simple answer: The American People thought it was A Wall.St giveaway (Both the Left and the Right hated it...rare...)

BBC's Answer:
They (Wall.St) are perceived as greedy, incompetent fat cats who have created this crisis themselves and who are now being allowed to pick the pockets of American voters to fix it.
My AP Biology teacher actually used that word "fat cats" to describe why we got into this mess...


American voters simply have not seen this as a crisis that affects their real lives on Main Street - it is seen as a welfare scheme for the humbled plutocrats of Wall Street.
If the problems deepen and people suddenly see unemployment rising because businesses cannot get money from the banks to pay their bills and honour their payrolls, then that sentiment might change.
Maybe so if things go worse, people might accept anything just like how we accepted the "Alphabet Soup" of Government agencies during the Great Depression (SS FTW!)

How would financial "Armageddon" look like?:
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7631281.stm

Not exactly the "Great Depression" everyone is saying...

OH Healthcare...eh touchy subject for me so I'll answer that when I get around to it...sorry....

 

[Lusankya]

Call me ignorant, maybe, but I don't see why people don't support the bail-out. If the financial "crisis", as it's being called, continues to advance, then it is very much going to affect the middle-class.

 

[Netto Azure]

Also...

Also Health-care: During the debate McCain mentioned something about a bout a $5000 tax-credit...Wonder how that would work since it's still the taxpayer and employers who will burden the cost....




Bill Clinton: Economic Crisis Means Veep Choice Is More Important

By Greg Sargent - October 1, 2008, 2:08PM
Bill Clinton -- doing some powerful campaigning in Florida for the first time on Obama's behalf today -- laid out an interesting argument against McCain-Palin, claiming that the economy will consume so much of the new president's attention that the Veep will be forced to play a bigger role on the world stage...

From Bill's comments...

"Senator Obama has spoken a lot about how we oughta relate to the world, and yes, he'll get out and travel some in the first year, we should want him to do it. But he is going to have to be really focused on fixing this economy. That means that role of the Vice President in repairing quickly our relations with the rest of the world will be relatively more important in the first two years of the next presidency. "And I am just telling you, you can talk to me or anybody else at any time in Washington, and they will tell you there is nobody, nobody in the entire United States senate that understands the political, the economic, and the security challenges and opportunities of the world better than Joe Biden does. He is a superb choice."
​

Impeccably timed by the Master, raising the stakes for the Veep choice right on the eve of the Veep debate.

Wow...way to go Bill...(By posting this I'm incurring the Republican's wrath =P)

 

[Aurafire]

Also Health-care: During the debate McCain mentioned something about a bout a $5000 tax-credit...Wonder how that would work since it's still the taxpayer and employers who will burden the cost....




Bill Clinton: Economic Crisis Means Veep Choice Is More Important

By Greg Sargent - October 1, 2008, 2:08PM
Bill Clinton -- doing some powerful campaigning in Florida for the first time on Obama's behalf today -- laid out an interesting argument against McCain-Palin, claiming that the economy will consume so much of the new president's attention that the Veep will be forced to play a bigger role on the world stage...

From Bill's comments...

"Senator Obama has spoken a lot about how we oughta relate to the world, and yes, he'll get out and travel some in the first year, we should want him to do it. But he is going to have to be really focused on fixing this economy. That means that role of the Vice President in repairing quickly our relations with the rest of the world will be relatively more important in the first two years of the next presidency. "And I am just telling you, you can talk to me or anybody else at any time in Washington, and they will tell you there is nobody, nobody in the entire United States senate that understands the political, the economic, and the security challenges and opportunities of the world better than Joe Biden does. He is a superb choice."
​

Impeccably timed by the Master, raising the stakes for the Veep choice right on the eve of the Veep debate.

Wow...way to go Bill...(By posting this I'm incurring the Republican's wrath =P)

How very clever, Bill. What a perfect thing to say right before the VP debate tomorrow! =P

He's a sneaky one....

 

[Red1530]

Today the Senate is going to take up the bailout proposal. They ticked it to include raising FDIC coverage to $250,000 and passing a temporary fix for the AMT.

 

[suicidesal]

I'm in Canada so I cannot vote in the US election but I would totally vote Obama.
As for the upcoming Canadian election, I am voting NDP all the way.

 

[Red1530]

The Senate in a 74-25 vote, passes the bailout bill. The Senate hopes with their changes that the House will pass their version on Friday.

 

[wolf]

McCain all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Macabre]

Something about the bailout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMFt7tRq-Ps

... and there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntEE9Zy-qQQ

I wouldn't be surprised if America voted a republican to lead the country again. They did the same when they voted Bush twice for presidency. History repeats itself as always; people just don't learn.

I'm not American but I would definetly vote for Obama.

 

[Mooshykris]

I wouldn't be surprised if America voted a republican to lead the country again. They did the same when they voted Bush twice for presidency. History repeats itself as always; people just don't learn.

I'm not American but I would definetly vote for Obama.

Actually, I have to say one thing, it was 2 terms for a Republican, after 2 terms for a Democrat.

There's not anything about "people not learning" here, it's just how the cycle goes. We're always bound to get one or the other eventually.


One major cycle point: At some point people will get tired of Republicans, and vote Democrat. Then, after enough time, they will be sick of Democrats, and vote Republican. That's what keeps a balance in the system :P


Mooshykris

 

[Lusankya]

Actually, in the past 50 years, there have only been 2 Democrat presidents.

Although, chances are Obama's going to win this time, bringing that number up to 3. Because basically, whenever there's an economic crisis, people turn to the Democrats. Free markets is one the foundation of Republicans, meaning that they don't want to take steps to do anything about a sinking economy.

 

[Allstories]

Many people are saying that it will be good, some say it will be bad. Well, why is it one of those two?

You're referring to Universal Health Care, right? Basically, in the US, we pay for a health care system that:

• Costs way, way more than health care in any other country, even considering taxes,
• Is practically the same in terms of service as any other developed country,
• A staggering percentage of people can't even afford,
• Still leaves us with an average life expectancy lower than that of many third-world countries,
• People could still pay for if they wanted to even if a universal alternative were implemented.

 

[Mooshykris]

Actually, in the past 50 years, there have only been 2 Democrat presidents.

In the past 50 years, we've had 4 Democrats, and 5 Republicans.

Kennedy - Democrat
Johnson - Democrat
Nixon - Republican
Ford - Republican
Carter - Democrat
Regan - Republican
Bush - Republican
Clinton - Democrat
Bush - Republican


Mooshykris

 

[Netto Azure]

Yup...

Actually, I have to say one thing, it was 2 terms for a Republican, after 2 terms for a Democrat.

There's not anything about "people not learning" here, it's just how the cycle goes. We're always bound to get one or the other eventually.


One major cycle point: At some point people will get tired of Republicans, and vote Democrat. Then, after enough time, they will be sick of Democrats, and vote Republican. That's what keeps a balance in the system :P


Mooshykris

Your totally correct...That's what my Algebra 2 teacher said...Americans don't want the government to "intrude" their private lives (But eh...with the PATRIOT Act that pretty much assured...) So Americans Vote for opposite parties in Congress and the White House (Usually) (White House: Republican - Congress: Democrat)...

So I'll go watch the VP debates and comment tomorrow...Thanks!

-Netto

 

[Red1530]

I watched the Vice-Presidential debate last night and was glad the Gov. Palin was able to hold her own against Sen. Biden.

 

[Netto Azure]

Yes...

I watched the Vice-Presidential debate last night and was glad the Gov. Palin was able to hold her own against Sen. Biden.

It went great...NOBODY made gaffs. Both stucked to their campaign points and Palin held her own...As I said to Aurasphere: (Yes a Progressive and Conservative talking. Weird eh?) I have to admit, I'm impressed. Both really appealed to me...But Palin's too conservative in her position for my tastes.

I'll comment more later...School's about to start... =D

 

[Aurafire]

It went great...NOBODY made gaffs. Both stucked to their campaign points and Palin held her own...As I said to Aurasphere: (Yes a Progressive and Conservative talking. Weird eh?) I have to admit, I'm impressed. Both really appealed to me...But Palin's too conservative in her position for my tastes.

I'll comment more later...School's about to start... =D

I thought Sarah Palin was very well spoken and knowledgeable on the issues. She definitely held her own. Hopefully this will make the conservative base more confident in their choice.

I still need to watch the whole thing...I missed the first half >.<

 

[Volkner's Apprentice]

The only things in particular I can pick out is that Biden referenced a lot of mainstream politicians that the good majority of Americans aren't going to know, really (I'll find some examples later) and that Sarah was perhaps a little soft in her representation. She did, however, pick up the pace a bit and brought the swing back on Biden by telling the audience how he was referencing himself as opposed to Obama's viewpoints, just as the commentator said afterward "as if he was the one running for office." I actually have more respect for Biden based on what he answered to when asked "If this was you running for office, how do you differ from Obama". He seemed kind of over the edge when he was nominated and he frightened me a little bit (and I suppose he is normally colorful and loud when it comes to his views, and that's definitely a good thing, seems like that small room setting with just him, Sarah and the camera kind of quelled him.) I hope that made sense XD.

Anyway, Sarah definitely held her own there without prodding Joe too much, only giving back what he gave her and yeah, it definitely proved she can debate with the rest of them. She could probably lay off the "dog-gone-it, Joe"'s and other Alaskaness (I did just make that word up :P) but that's just how she is and I think it's funny.