US Elections 2008: Debate the Issues

[Red1530]

September 11 Cease-Fire

On September 11 Senators John McCain and Barack Obama are going to have a joint appearance at Ground Zero to mark the seventh anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attacks. Both campaigns are not going to air negative ads on that day as well.

Source: https://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/06/mccain-obama-to-appear-together-at-ground-zero-site/

 

[Netto Azure]

Ok...

On September 11 Senators John McCain and Barack Obama are going to have a joint appearance at Ground Zero to mark the seventh anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attacks. Both campaigns are not going to air negative ads on that day as well.

Source: https://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/06/mccain-obama-to-appear-together-at-ground-zero-site/

I accept the So-called cease-fire JUST on September.11 but for now has anybody heard about this story yet about Sarah Palin? It's gonna be popular...One of the famous e-mails on the net VOTE 08: An actual dissenter from Wasilla, Alaska

https://news.spreadit.org/ann-kilkennykilkenny-palin-email/
NPR article: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94332543

Also sorry about this but I don't trust Rupert Murdoch's FOXNews (or Noose) too conservatively biased...

 

[Stalin Malone]

Barack Obama will expand Welfare to those who just don't want to work with the creation of new social programs and tax anyone who makes more than 100,000 dollars a year with a 100% income tax.

 

[Netto Azure]

Dissecting his essay...

I'm not trying to "kill' you Aurasphere just showing my opinions since that is how a democracy works.

Also has anybody heard about how Police AND Federal Agents "roughed up" the press and did a "pre-emptive" strike against protesters and passer-by's during the Republican National Convention:

https://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=6789
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYjyvkR0bGQ

Not very experienced when you take into account that he voted "present" over 100 times instead of simply saying yes or no....not getting you much experience if you don't actually participate. Though it's not surprising he's voted "present" that many times, since our useless congress doesn't do a thing anyway.

Useless Congress...hmm just about every legislative branch in the world always have political deadlock. That is why it's good to have a majority (as my W.History Teacher said about the two party system) SEE how much the Republicans were able to do when they had BOTH the Capitol AND the White House for 5 Years (the Patriot act...wars in the Middle East...Tax cuts for the Wealthy....to name a few)
The Republican's say they don't want to expand government...see what the PATRIOT Act and subsequent "Anti-Terror" Acts/laws did MASSIVE RIGHTS INFRINGEMENT and curbing of civil-liberties. Also the No Child Left Behind Act...another expansion of government.

Look, he has some political experience. Compared to McCain though, it's laughable. For those of you that actually took the time to watch McCain's speech last night (not many I'm assuming), you would have seen his determination, resolve, and love for America. You would have seen a man ready to lead.

I tried too...but BOTH conventions seemed like an infomercial to me...and the RNC was too much to handle...And yeah now I accept McCain as being in the Progressive Side of the Right (Not enough to be Center-Right)

Let me tell you all a little something about Barack Obama: he's absolutely the most liberal politician ever to be elected. You may ask "So what?" Well I'll tell you what.

No...Obama is not "the most liberal," does anybody even remember Bill Clinton and Hillary's drive for Universal Healthcare? (Too bad it didn't entirely abolish the Insurance companies) No...probably because the average American only remembers the stupid SCANDALS!

You think his massive tax increase is going to be good for America? False. The large corporations and wealthy entrepreneurs that drive this country's economy will be handcuffed with taxes. What does that mean? You're job is gone, and that company will move overseas. The people with the highest income will stop investing. Small business owners will be smothered with no room for growth. Essentially, the economy gets worse than it already is.

With a massive budget deficit you cannot finance this country without raising taxes no matter how many times the republicans spin it...(unless we cut off military spending or at least reform healthcare/social security which I doubt will happen in a McCain Presidency) Also realistically we can only BARELY battle Pork-Barrel spending (Has anybody even watched the ABC "money-trail" where LOBBYISTS and Special-interests were "courting" BOTH Republicans And Democrats during their respective conventions?

What about healthcare? Universal looks good on paper, but get ready for some crappy coverage. Without competition, quality of care goes down the toilet. You can't "socialize" medicine. Why do you think people become doctors? Competitive salaries. If healthcare is socialized, they have no more incentive. Why should one doctor work harder than another doctor if they're getting paid exactly the same salary? Sure, doctors are very caring and they want to help, but that six figure check in their wallet doesn't look too bad either. Now, I'm not stupid, I know our system needs reforming to help everyone out. People genuinely cannot afford health care, but socialization is NOT the way to do it.

Oh PLEASE don't get me started on Universal Health Care I can go on and on about that (I'm going to be for it or PRO in my Grade 10 Persuasive essay. My favorite debate topic.) I could even talk about my grandparents and my experience with it in Canada (maybe next time)...
Don't believe everything FoxNOOSE tells you...Just think maybe the reason why things are relatively slower in UHC countries is bacause MORE PEOPLE are able to use their services...Just think of how clogged up our emergency rooms are here in the US! PEOPLE ARE DYING!!! In there because of the lack of access to Preventive care...Also doctors won't HAVE the same salaries in UHC...There are actual incentives (aka raises) for actually doing GOOD things for their patients (such as getting them to quit smoking) (ex. England) unlike here in the US where insurance companies actually give doctors "incentives" for not giving necessary care. GO WATCH "SICKO" DARN IT!!!!

Even on the War in Iraq, Obama has no "real" stance. He's been an anti-war democrat for his entire career in the Senate, voted against the surge, and now, since most of the country believes that the surge is working, he says "Well...Iraq was still a mistake, the real fight is in Afganistan." Anyone with half a brain could tell you that there are terrorists both in Afghanistan AND Iraq. Iraq may have been mismanaged, but don't tell me that there was no threat there. Iraq was a haven for terrorism, and you really are flat out blind if you can't see it. John McCain knows that, Obama doesn't. He's using the public's discontent with the war to get him votes. It's pandering at it's absolute worst. He goes to wherever the votes go...which is why he has practically no personal stance on any issue.

Yeah...NEWS-FLASH: Obama's acting like a Polititian...FLIP-FLOPPING ON THE ISSUES
Like John McCain didn't flip-flop on issues either...It's all for Political Advantage (You guys are making me want to vote third party if I could...But I try to be realistic)

His strategy is so simple, but people are too dumb to see it (not anyone here, just people in general). Every one of his policies looks great on paper, and he's great at delivering his message. "Vote for me, and I will heal America". I ask everyone to look just a bit closer at what he really wants, because if you're young and blindly follow whatever you hear, you're playing right into his strategy. He's relying on you to not inform yourself about what he really wants. He hides behind his uplifting message and his "too good to be true" plan to heal America, and the everyday American, frustrated with the way our country is going, becomes infatuated with him. What he really wants is to move our country towards socialism, make it so that everyone can win and no one loses. Well people, life has winners and losers, and no amount of political skill can change that.

Yeah so now that John McCain is saying he's THE CHANGE WE NEED your stance backfires...Seriously he should have just stayed with Experience...I mean what party controlled the Executive and Legislative branch of government for 5 Years (Surprise: The Republicans) and now he's saying CHANGE?

You might call me stubborn, stupid, ignorant, cruel, uncaring, crazy or anything else you might feel about me. All I can tell you is that I care about America, and so does John McCain. Under all the flowery and dressed up nonsense that Obama calls "policies" , what he really cares about is himself and getting elected. Again, use any of those words above to describe me, but don't you dare fault me for caring about my country. I don't pretend to be "enlightened" or "above" anyone else, and apologize if I come off that way. But I do call myself informed, and truth be told, most Americans are not.

Seriously what is up with you and "flowery" speeches or rhetoric. Since the beginings of government that has been used by many polititians to garner votes...I mean McCain's so called "Straight-Talk" is just another variation of that and his title Maverick...what's up with that? (I checked it's dictionary meaning and it says "Unconformist" so is he going for the change mantra again) see another political gimmick such as Obama being a celebrity.

I don't mind if you support Obama. I do mind if you blindly support him and don't know what he stands for. And you may not agree with me, but based on what he says and what he believes in, you'd be doing yourself a great dishonor if you didn't take a closer look. I'm not jumping down anyone's throats or anything.

And I'm not saying "If you vote for Obama, you're stupid." I just want people to be informed. Don't believe everything you hear, because if Obama does get elected, there's no way he can live up to all the hype he's created.

I know me too...I'll repeat what I said above no offense since this is how a democracy works...People must show opinions or dissent the Government because if not might as well go Fascist or Communist (Ideologically different, Realistically the same aka Tolitarian. Both rule through fear)

 

[Aurafire]

I'm not trying to "kill' you Aurasphere just showing my opinions since that is how a democracy works.

Also has anybody heard about how Police AND Federal Agents "roughed up" the press and did a "pre-emptive" strike against protesters and passer-by's during the Republican National Convention:

https://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=6789
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYjyvkR0bGQ



Useless Congress...hmm just about every legislative branch in the world always have political deadlock. That is why it's good to have a majority (as my W.History Teacher said about the two party system) SEE how much the Republicans were able to do when they had BOTH the Capitol AND the White House for 5 Years (the Patriot act...wars in the Middle East...Tax cuts for the Wealthy....to name a few)
The Republican's say they don't want to expand government...see what the PATRIOT Act and subsequent "Anti-Terror" Acts/laws did MASSIVE RIGHTS INFRINGEMENT and curbing of civil-liberties. Also the No Child Left Behind Act...another expansion of government.



I tried too...but BOTH conventions seemed like an infomercial to me...and the RNC was too much to handle...And yeah now I accept McCain as being in the Progressive Side of the Right (Not enough to be Center-Right)



No...Obama is not "the most liberal," does anybody even remember Bill Clinton and Hillary's drive for Universal Healthcare? (Too bad it didn't entirely abolish the Insurance companies) No...probably because the average American only remembers the stupid SCANDALS!



With a massive budget deficit you cannot finance this country without raising taxes no matter how many times the republicans spin it...(unless we cut off military spending or at least reform healthcare/social security which I doubt will happen in a McCain Presidency) Also realistically we can only BARELY battle Pork-Barrel spending (Has anybody even watched the ABC "money-trail" where LOBBYISTS and Special-interests were "courting" BOTH Republicans And Democrats during their respective conventions?



Oh PLEASE don't get me started on Universal Health Care I can go on and on about that (I'm going to be for it or PRO in my Grade 10 Persuasive essay. My favorite debate topic.) I could even talk about my grandparents and my experience with it in Canada (maybe next time)...
Don't believe everything FoxNOOSE tells you...Just think maybe the reason why things are relatively slower in UHC countries is bacause MORE PEOPLE are able to use their services...Just think of how clogged up our emergency rooms are here in the US! PEOPLE ARE DYING!!! In there because of the lack of access to Preventive care...Also doctors won't HAVE the same salaries in UHC...There are actual incentives (aka raises) for actually doing GOOD things for their patients (such as getting them to quit smoking) (ex. England) unlike here in the US where insurance companies actually give doctors "incentives" for not giving necessary care. GO WATCH "SICKO" DARN IT!!!!



Yeah...NEWS-FLASH: Obama's acting like a Polititian...FLIP-FLOPPING ON THE ISSUES
Like John McCain didn't flip-flop on issues either...It's all for Political Advantage (You guys are making me want to vote third party if I could...But I try to be realistic)



Yeah so now that John McCain is saying he's THE CHANGE WE NEED your stance backfires...Seriously he should have just stayed with Experience...I mean what party controlled the Executive and Legislative branch of government for 5 Years (Surprise: The Republicans) and now he's saying CHANGE?



Seriously what is up with you and "flowery" speeches or rhetoric. Since the beginings of government that has been used by many polititians to garner votes...I mean McCain's so called "Straight-Talk" is just another variation of that and his title Maverick...what's up with that? (I checked it's dictionary meaning and it says "Unconformist" so is he going for the change mantra again) see another political gimmick such as Obama being a celebrity.



I know me too...I'll repeat what I said above no offense since this is how a democracy works...People must show opinions or dissent the Government because if not might as well go Fascist or Communist (Ideologically different, Realistically the same aka Tolitarian. Both rule through fear)

Ouch, my republican pride...

Now it's my turn.

I'm not the only one who thinks Congress is useless. In fact, I'm in the majority. 9% approval rating? Yeah...

And yes, Obama is the most liberal senator:
https://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/

Don't believe me? Type in "most liberal senator" into any search engine and see what comes up.

And don't get ME started on Sicko. You really are pathetic if you're using POLITICAL PROPOGANDA to support your views. I might have respected your opinion on healthcare if you didn't site that fat idiot Michael Moore and his pathetic movies. He' a PROPAGANDIST. Do you know what that means? It means he RADICALLY slants the truth. Sicko was a dramatic over-statement about healthcare in our country and insulting to the U.S....Anyone who actually takes that movie seriously has major problems. I watched and almost threw up because I was so disgusted. Not with what I was seeing, but with how many people Michael Moore is brain washing (I can see he's already claimed you)

You act like I want nothing to change. I'm not an idiot. Of course we need change. Just not radical liberal change that will do this country no good. The news media is blowing the problems we have way out of proportion, further boosting Obama's message. Take a look around, really look, and ask yourself, are things really as bad as the news makes it out to be?

And for my last thought, what is it with liberals and Fox News? (Oh sorry, Fox Noose....i forgot how funny that is). Oh my god, they give the CONSERVATIVE view point? Those monsters! Seriously dude, wake up. ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC....and ANY other news network is DOMINATED by liberals. Someone as smart as you really shouldn't be stooping that low. You know very well that every other network EXCEPT fox news is horrible slanted towards the liberal cause, and you get mad when people get fair and balanced news? I don't get mad when people watch those other news network, and I could easily turn around and say "Turn off the ABC/NBC/CBS!!!" But how ridiculous would I sound. Because conservatives don't COMPLAIN about that kind of stuff. You and your liberal friends are the ones who are whining because people don't want to be brainwashed by "Fox Noose" See...that never gets old.

And ditto...no offense.

 

[Megera]

Well, as long as no one's getting their news from The View... Stupid *****es.

 

[SpartanPatriot]

McCain is way too self-centered. All he does is talk about himself and his life stories constantly; Making himself sound superior to the world. It's sickening. I can't stand it!

I agree with you here. I was watching the Republican convention the other night and every word out of his mouth truly bothered me. He was talking about how he wants to lower taxes and Obama does not. He was a veteran in the army and Obama was not. He loves America and Obama does not (last one exaggerating but you get the drift.

McCain likes to flame his opponent. He twists things around that Obama says and then he mud-flings in commercials and everything like that.

I personally do not give a damn that he was in the army and a POW. Good for him. He made a sacrifice in the country and that is fine but he does not need to bring it up every ten minuites. Experience does not always mean you are better, wiser and more intelligent. Look at Drew Bledsoe...was a good qb when he was young when he got old he stuck. Look at people in general, they get Alzheimer when they are older. It is a fact of life that experience does not always make a better person. Also, what does being a veteran have to do with becoming the president of the untied states? He uses it to get people to feel bad for him or to sway voters to thinking since he served his counry 40 years ago then he can do it now. No.

Seriously, his speech gave ke shivers and really, really, annoyed me because of his tactics. Another thing that annoyed me was him choosing the conservative Biden as his second in command. She is conservative (not that it is bad) but that can lead to different decisions that may not lead to the betterment of the country.Also, he chose Biden because he wanted Clinton voters. That annoyed me as well.

Obama has not flamed McCain (to my knowledge) and yet McCain flames him. McCain is not a good president in my opinion. He is to caught up in the past and he is an "old man" which means he has "old ideals"...

I will stop here...I could contnue for days :P

 

[Aurafire]

I agree with you here. I was watching the Republican convention the other night and every word out of his mouth truly bothered me. He was talking about how he wants to lower taxes and Obama does not. He was a veteran in the army and Obama was not. He loves America and Obama does not (last one exaggerating but you get the drift.

McCain likes to flame his opponent. He twists things around that Obama says and then he mud-flings in commercials and everything like that.

I personally do not give a damn that he was in the army and a POW. Good for him. He made a sacrifice in the country and that is fine but he does not need to bring it up every ten minuites. Experience does not always mean you are better, wiser and more intelligent. Look at Drew Bledsoe...was a good qb when he was young when he got old he stuck. Look at people in general, they get Alzheimer when they are older. It is a fact of life that experience does not always make a better person. Also, what does being a veteran have to do with becoming the president of the untied states? He uses it to get people to feel bad for him or to sway voters to thinking since he served his counry 40 years ago then he can do it now. No.

Seriously, his speech gave ke shivers and really, really, annoyed me because of his tactics. Another thing that annoyed me was him choosing the conservative Biden as his second in command. She is conservative (not that it is bad) but that can lead to different decisions that may not lead to the betterment of the country.Also, he chose Biden because he wanted Clinton voters. That annoyed me as well.

Obama has not flamed McCain (to my knowledge) and yet McCain flames him. McCain is not a good president in my opinion. He is to caught up in the past and he is an "old man" which means he has "old ideals"...

I will stop here...I could contnue for days :P

Wow...I'll take your opinion with a grain of salt since you don't even know who's VP is who. I won't even bother to refute all of your arguments...

 

[SpartanPatriot]

Are you an McCain supprter? :P jk

I meant Palin lol. I feel stupid now :P I was just playing Madden and won the game by tossing a pass to Joe Biden so I had my mind on him.

 

[Aurafire]

Are you an McCain supprter? :P jk

I meant Palin lol. I feel stupid now :P I was just playing Madden and won the game by tossing a pass to Joe Biden so I had my mind on him.

Joe Biden is your wide reciever? How's that working out? =P

 

[SpartanPatriot]

Damn...I must looking f-ing crazy. Joe Biden is an undrafted rookie from this years draft...not the one you are thinking of lol :)

 

[Allstories]

Well hey if the whole country has been invaded and poor, at least you can get married, right? It's that type of selfish thinking that I abhor. How do you feel like a second class citizen? Are you being lynched daily?

So it's okay to treat a group of people like dirt as long as you aren't lynching them? You grotesque monster.

Don't believe me? Type in "most liberal senator" into any search engine and see what comes up.

Haha this is the worst argument ever.

You act like I want nothing to change. I'm not an idiot. Of course we need change. Just not radical liberal change that will do this country no good. The news media is blowing the problems we have way out of proportion, further boosting Obama's message. Take a look around, really look, and ask yourself, are things really as bad as the news makes it out to be?

The Iraq war is pretty horrible. Not having universal health care is pretty horrible. It might not look so bad in your white-ass suburb, but these are still real problems.

 

[Megera]

So it's okay to treat a group of people like dirt as long as you aren't lynching them? You grotesque monster.

No, it's not. That's why I didn't say that. You deformed beast.

 

[Aurafire]

So it's okay to treat a group of people like dirt as long as you aren't lynching them? You grotesque monster.



Haha this is the worst argument ever.



The Iraq war is pretty horrible. Not having universal health care is pretty horrible. It might not look so bad in your white-ass suburb, but these are still real problems.

Way to judge without knowing absolutely nothing about me. How the hell do you know where I live and what my life is like? You must have some balls to come out and say that to me, either that or you're just incredibly stupid.

The Iraq war? Last time I checked, we were winning, and planning troop withdrawals in the near future...So no, doesn't look too bad to me. And maybe the healthcare issue is debatable...but you won't even admit that things aren't as bad as they seem? I'm not against reforming our system dude, there are pros and cons to each system. I just happen to support one, while you support the other. You're for total reform while I only want some tweaks here and there, because everyone blows the issue way out of proportion.

EDIT: I'm for this thread being closed. It's gotten to the point where people can't even debate the issues without calling people names or being uncivilized. I know I've been contributing to it quite a bit, and have gotten a bit angry myself, but it's just not worth it anymore. Most of the people here can't even vote or make educated comments, which isn't really debating....Now it has sunk to name-calling and ill-informed judging.

Sorry for anyone I've offended. I don't think any less of anyone because of their views, and hope no one thinks any worse of me.

 

[Allstories]

The Iraq war? Last time I checked, we were winning, and planning troop withdrawals in the near future...So no, doesn't look too bad to me. And maybe the healthcare issue is debatable...but you won't even admit that things aren't as bad as they seem?.

I guess if you consider what little we've accomplished at the costs of thousands of lives as winning. Either way, millions of people simply aren't allowed to get sick, our economy is going down the tube, our education is some of the worst in the world, people's rights are being trounced by the religious fundamentalists and/or the people who for some reason believe the constitution is some infallible decree handed down by god, minorities everywhere are getting the short end of the stick, and the list goes on. Everything is not fine, dude.

 

[Netto Azure]

YOU HAD TO MAKE ME DRAG IT IN DIDN"T YOU!!!! D:

Ouch, my republican pride...

I'm sorry for hurting your pride, mine was hurt too when I read your reply...Please don't resort to using such words as "pathetic" because you can start making enemies with that. (To be frank I want to be your friend because you help me see the other side of the argument and balance my views.) Also now I'm sad because you believe that I am a crazy Socialist. I'm not...I just have a different point of view on getting from point A to point B, kinda like the Canadians (look at the BBC: Canada primed for snap elections) thread.

And don't get ME started on Sicko. You really are pathetic if you're using POLITICAL PROPAGANDA to support your views. I might have respected your opinion on healthcare if you didn't site that fat idiot Michael Moore and his pathetic movies. He' a PROPAGANDIST. Do you know what that means? It means he RADICALLY slants the truth. Sicko was a dramatic over-statement about healthcare in our country and insulting to the U.S....Anyone who actually takes that movie seriously has major problems. I watched and almost threw up because I was so disgusted. Not with what I was seeing, but with how many people Michael Moore is brain washing (I can see he's already claimed you)

No I only quoted "Sicko" because it is one of the relatively well known documentaries on UHC...Seriously "Sicko" is just like an introduction to me, other studies extensively done support my argument for Universal Health-Care. Also I saw Universal Healthcare IN ACTION back in Canada...First my grandfather was hospitalized for 7 Months and we only had to pay for the ambulance. I lived with my grandparents for a couple of months in an apartment IN DOWNTOWN Winippeg that they only had to pay $300 (back in '04) a month since it was subsidized by the government. My grandmother had home-aid workers come into the apartment to help take care of my grandfather 3 times a day all for free! We all had free (paid by taxes) stuff such as adult diapers, gloves,masks and other medical supplies DELIVERED TO THE APARTMENT to help the Home-aid workers from the government (Pilipino's work for this because it pays higher than their former jobs in the Philippines...AND MORE JOBS CREATED FOR CITIZENS) My grandparents can buy their medicine cheaply because the government has massive leverage against the Pharmaceutical Industry.
ALSO HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY I WAS PART OF THE GRASSROOTS HARBOR-UCLA SUMMER YOUTH HEALTH SUMMIT! I SAW ALONGSIDE COLLEGE AND MEDICAL STUDENTS THE SUFFERING AND PLIGHT OF THE POOR! THE HEATLTH-CARE THEY NEED! REMEMBER IMMIGRANTS ARE HUMANS OKAY? DON'T TREAT THEM LIKE TRASH!!!!!

SO PLEASE DON"T TELL ME THAT I HAVE "BOUGHT" MICHEL MOORES "BS" OKAY I SAW IT PERSONALLY AND IS VERY EMOTIONAL AND PASSIONATE ON THIS TOPIC OK?!!! IT WORKS!
The right is only against it because the Pharmaceutical and Insurance INDUSTRY are TOO ENTRENCHED IN WASHINGTON...
Also there is too much money involved (If we just move that 14% GDP around a bit we CAN provide everyone with quality health-care...

You act like I want nothing to change. I'm not an idiot. Of course we need change. Just not radical liberal change that will do this country no good. The news media is blowing the problems we have way out of proportion, further boosting Obama's message. Take a look around, really look, and ask yourself, are things really as bad as the news makes it out to be?

And for my last thought, what is it with liberals and Fox News? (Oh sorry, Fox Noose....i forgot how funny that is). Oh my god, they give the CONSERVATIVE view point? Those monsters! Seriously dude, wake up. ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC....and ANY other news network is DOMINATED by liberals. Someone as smart as you really shouldn't be stooping that low. You know very well that every other network EXCEPT fox news is horrible slanted towards the liberal cause, and you get mad when people get fair and balanced news? I don't get mad when people watch those other news network, and I could easily turn around and say "Turn off the ABC/NBC/CBS!!!" But how ridiculous would I sound. Because conservatives don't COMPLAIN about that kind of stuff. You and your liberal friends are the ones who are whining because people don't want to be brainwashed by "Fox Noose" See...that never gets old.

And ditto...no offense.

Yes...Massive liberal change is not what we need. I keep on saying Obama is CENTRIST (HE VOTED FOR THE FISA-EXTENTION DARN IT!)

I AM NOT "BRAIN WASHED" okay? JUST DISILUSSIONED TO THE PLIGHT OF OTHER PEOPLE!!!!

I'm so sorry...I just had to reply...this is a BIG issue for me...

Let's put Healthcare in the Back-burner for now....We can talk about this later...

 

[Aurafire]

I guess if you consider what little we've accomplished at the costs of thousands of lives as winning. Either way, millions of people simply aren't allowed to get sick, our economy is going down the tube, our education is some of the worst in the world, people's rights are being trounced by the religious fundamentalists and/or the people who for some reason believe the constitution is some infallible decree handed down by god, minorities everywhere are getting the short end of the stick, and the list goes on. Everything is not fine, dude.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said everything was just peachy.

In any case, you make America sound like a third world country, barely able to survive. You make it sound like America is going implode on itself. See, unlike you, I'm not a pessimistic liberal who takes everything we have here for granted. Unlike you, I know how great America is. Unlike you, I know we enjoy so many rights that millions of people can never hope to enjoy. And unlike you, I don't jump to ridiculous conclusions when a few things go wrong. The Democratic party is running on that very same principle of pessimism, and that America is somehow the enemy, and that we need to apologize to the world for our mistakes. At least Republicans actually like their country, if only a little bit. At least I don't think everything we do is morally wrong. At least I realize that America is a great place to live, which you and your liberal friends don't seem to understand.

You want a Utopia, where everyone wins and no one loses. Tough. People lose, it's life. Is it fair to give people who don't want to work taxpayer money just on the basis of fairness? Not to me...

Once again....this thread should be closed. People are getting hostile, including me, and it's not an enjoyable thread. All it's causing and frustration and dislike.

 

[Netto Azure]

Sorry I just want peace and the betterment of my fellow citizens.

EDIT: I'm for this thread being closed. It's gotten to the point where people can't even debate the issues without calling people names or being uncivilized. I know I've been contributing to it quite a bit, and have gotten a bit angry myself, but it's just not worth it anymore. Most of the people here can't even vote or make educated comments, which isn't really debating....Now it has sunk to name-calling and ill-informed judging.

Sorry for anyone I've offended. I don't think any less of anyone because of their views, and hope no one thinks any worse of me.

Ok this thread SHOULDN'T be closed...The name calling can be addressed people just need to be more mature in discussions. This recent exchange is just us being fiery about politics. I don't think any worse of you...just don't call me misinformed or accepting propaganda...I know what propaganda is...I totally agree with you that this is a breach of etiquette and I hope to continue this thread to help others show their positions (This has helped me be more open about my ideals at school so I appreciate this thread)

 

[Aurafire]

I'm sorry for hurting your pride, mine was hurt too when I read your reply...Please don't resort to using such words as "pathetic" because you can start making enemies with that. (To be frank I want to be your friend because you help me see the other side of the argument and balance my views.) Also now I'm sad because you believe that I am a crazy Socialist. I'm not...I just have a different point of view on getting from point A to point B, kinda like the Canadians (look at the BBC: Canada primed for snap elections) thread.



No I only quoted "Sicko" because it is one of the relatively well known documentaries on UHC...Seriously "Sicko" is just like an introduction to me, other studies extensively done support my argument for Universal Health-Care. Also I saw Universal Healthcare IN ACTION back in Canada...First my grandfather was hospitalized for 7 Months and we only had to pay for the ambulance. I lived with my grandparents for a couple of months in an apartment IN DOWNTOWN Winippeg that they only had to pay $300 (back in '04) a month since it was subsidized by the government. My grandmother had home-aid workers come into the apartment to help take care of my grandfather 3 times a day all for free! We all had free (paid by taxes) stuff such as adult diapers, gloves,masks and other medical supplies DELIVERED TO THE APARTMENT to help the Home-aid workers from the government (Pilipino's work for this because it pays higher than their former jobs in the Philippines...AND MORE JOBS CREATED FOR CITIZENS) My grandparents can buy their medicine cheaply because the government has massive leverage against the Pharmaceutical Industry.
ALSO HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY I WAS PART OF THE GRASSROOTS HARBOR-UCLA SUMMER YOUTH HEALTH SUMMIT! I SAW ALONGSIDE COLLEGE AND MEDICAL STUDENTS THE SUFFERING AND PLIGHT OF THE POOR! THE HEATLTHCARE THEY NEED! REMEMBER IMMIGRANTS ARE HUMANS OKAY? DON'T TREAT HEM LIKE TRASH!!!!!

SO PLEASE DON"T TELL ME THAT I HAVE "BOUGHT" MICHEL MOORS "BS" OKAY I SAW IT PERSONALLY AND IS VERY EMOTIONAL AND PASSIONATE ON THIS TOPIC OK?!!! IT WORKS!
The right is only against it because the Pharmaceutical and Insurance INDUSTRY are TOO ENTRENCHED IN WASHINGTON...



Yes...Massive liberal change is not what we need. I keep on saying Obama is CENTRIST (HE VOTED FOR THE FISA-EXTENTION DARN IT!)

I AM NOT "BRAIN WASHED" okay? JUST DISILUSSIONED TO THE PLIGHT OF OTHER PEOPLE!!!!

I'm so sorry...I just had to reply...this is a BIG issue for me...

SO PC WHAT DO YOU THINK OF UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE???!!!!!
I WAS TRYING TO SAVE THIS ISSUE FOR THE LAST DEBATE BUT I HAD TO DRAG IT IN...SO PLEASE LETS BRING SOME EVIDENCE ON OUR VIEWS (NOT REQUIRED BUT HELPS YOUR ARGUMENT)

Ok stop shouting. I'm not going to take you seriously if you can't argue calmly. I just don't like the idea of universal healthcare, for reasons already stated. If i touched a nerve I apologize, another GREAT reasons to close this thread. This isn't a debate, it's people getting angry at each other.

Also, the fact that you even mentioned that I should watch Sicko means that you think that there is a shred of truth in it. At least admit that it's propaganda and you shouldn't use it to argue any points.

I also don't believe you are "crazy". But you do support socialistic ideas, such as universal healthcare. You're idea of getting from point A to point B is an even distribution of wealth and using taxpayer money to grant everyone equality. Hence, Socialism.

Also, to edit for the fourth time, your idea that Obama is somehow centrist is ridiculous. Just look at his policies. Almost every one is a liberal ideal.
Pro-life, raise taxes, socialized medicine, taxpayer relief for the lower class, reduction in military spending.....just admit it....he's a liberal, no other way around it.

 

[Netto Azure]

Sorry...again

Also, the fact that you even mentioned that I should watch Sicko means that you think that there is a shred of truth in it. At least admit that it's propaganda and you shouldn't use it to argue any points.

Ok..I won't use 'Sicko" as reference again. (But the fact is other independent studies DO support some of the points he brings up...So there are truths in his documentary...which is even MORE sickening if you think about it...) I'll re-research the evidence for my view on Universal Health-Care...Summer has just made me rusty on this issue guess I'll just have to ask Dr. Granados for help...
And I'm not making any promises since school is my top priority...(as it should be...)

Oh and remember when I said that I support minimal socialism (UHC, Social Security...etc...) in the "Obama thread"

And yeah we should just stop talking about the candidates being Left, centrist, or right...Lets go back on topic and ACTUALLY debate the issues that the candidates discuss (or should care about). Again I apologize for the mud-slinging...just me being fiery...that always happens in un-moderated debates.