Debate: US Health Care Reform

[Bianca Paragon]

It's mainly due to lack of education and brainwashing by the media :\ All we can do is hope that our American cousins see reason and decide to finally join the rest of the first world nations :)

 

[Red1530]

It's mainly due to lack of education and brainwashing by the media :\ All we can do is hope that our American cousins see reason and decide to finally join the rest of the first world nations :)

While it is true that the United States lags in overall length of life compared to other first world countries, the United States has the best survival rate when it come to cancer. In a recent op-ed in The Wall Street Journal the founder of Whole Foods, John Mackey, on how to improve the current system without increasing the national deficit. The highlights of his proposal are:

• Remove the legal obstacles that slow the creation of high-deductible health insurance plans and health savings accounts (HSAs).
• Equalize the tax laws so that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have the same tax benefits.
• Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines.
• Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover.

 

[Ineffable~]

It's mainly due to lack of education and brainwashing by the media :\ All we can do is hope that our American cousins see reason and decide to finally join the rest of the first world nations :)

Okay, I'm fine when people support a universal health care system, but seriously, do you need to dis another country just to support that idea? Completely not cool.

Anyway, I for one support keeping health care the way it is. This country is built on capitalism, which I definitely think has worked so far.

Trust me, I hate poverty as much as the next guy; I do my part to help starving kids get fed and all that good stuff. I like helping people. :)

But still, we needn't force other people to pay for other's problems. I know it sounds cruel, but don't think that middle-class and up don't need their money too. >:(
I thought it was all people created equal? So why are we trying to tax rich people to death? It just doesn't seem fair to hate people just for being successful. :/

 

[Bianca Paragon]

Okay, I'm fine when people support a universal health care system, but seriously, do you need to dis another country just to support that idea? Completely not cool.

Anyway, I for one support keeping health care the way it is. This country is built on capitalism, which I definitely think has worked so far.

Trust me, I hate poverty as much as the next guy; I do my part to help starving kids get fed and all that good stuff. I like helping people. :)

But still, we needn't force other people to pay for other's problems. I know it sounds cruel, but don't think that middle-class and up don't need their money too. >:(
I thought it was all people created equal? So why are we trying to tax rich people to death? It just doesn't seem fair to hate people just for being successful. :/

So you've got a single mother; that has two kids and doesn't have the *time* to fit a full time job in with raising them. But she works hard. She can't afford insurance; even making ends meet is a challenge. One day one of her children breaks an arm; or gets sick; or runs a fever in the middle of the night. They need medical care; but she has no insurance. A first world nation treats the children for free. Because health ought to be free. What kind of civilized nation turns her away or insists on thousands and thousands of dollars that will be the straw that breaks her back, financially? What kind of sick society would see someone DIE because they can't AFFORD treatment? What kind of health-care system makes a person have to CHOOSE to have surgery to re-attach a finger, or to mend a broken arm properly; because they have to weigh MONEY against their own HEALTH? Health is life. What kind of nation values the dollar over the life of it's people?

America does.

I don't think I'm dissing the US. And I love my American friends <3
But you can't deny that you've got a LOT of catching up to do.

 

[Starom]

I just can't believe it's taken such a huge country this long to figure it out :| How can it be right to charge people for keeping themselves healthy?? Hopefully (eventually) the world will realise that areas such as healthcare cannot be costly to the sick person - it's just plain wrong...

 

[Ivysaur]

Trust me, I hate poverty as much as the next guy; I do my part to help starving kids get fed and all that good stuff. I like helping people. :)

But still, we needn't force other people to pay for other's problems. I know it sounds cruel, but don't think that middle-class and up don't need their money too. >:(
I thought it was all people created equal? So why are we trying to tax rich people to death? It just doesn't seem fair to hate people just for being successful. :/

It's fun to see how the US (and most of the first world countries anyway) used billions of dollars to save big companies, aka people's money to help the rich, and some people get so angry to see their money is used to help the people who have no money to afford going to the doctor's :(

If you like helping the poor, save the money you use to feed starving kids and use it to pay taxes to give them... and yourself if you ever need it, free medical treatment. Look at it that way.

 

[Ineffable~]

Okay, seriously, people. Just because someone's opinions differ doesn't mean you need to be a jerk. ¬.¬

So you've got a single mother; that has two kids and doesn't have the *time* to fit a full time job in with raising them. But she works hard. She can't afford insurance; even making ends meet is a challenge. One day one of her children breaks an arm; or gets sick; or runs a fever in the middle of the night. They need medical care; but she has no insurance. A first world nation treats the children for free. Because health ought to be free. What kind of civilized nation turns her away or insists on thousands and thousands of dollars that will be the straw that breaks her back, financially? What kind of sick society would see someone DIE because they can't AFFORD treatment? What kind of health-care system makes a person have to CHOOSE to have surgery to re-attach a finger, or to mend a broken arm properly; because they have to weigh MONEY against their own HEALTH? Health is life. What kind of nation values the dollar over the life of it's people?

America does.

I don't think I'm dissing the US. And I love my American friends <3
But you can't deny that you've got a LOT of catching up to do.

Everything you've said so far about America as a country has been negative. I consider that dissing.

Anyway, I know my facts and my opinion. Just because I see things differently doesn't mean you need to attack my intelligence. That's where the line is. You're just lucky I'm not good at debating and public speaking. So I ask you to leave me alone. I stated my ideas, let's leave it at that.

 

[Bianca Paragon]

Okay, seriously, people. Just because someone's opinions differ doesn't mean you need to be a jerk. I'm especially disappointed to see that from a moderator. ¬.¬
Everything you've said so far about America as a country has been negative. I consider that dissing.

Anyway, I know my facts and my opinion. Just because I see things differently doesn't mean you need to attack my intelligence. That's where the line is. You're just lucky I'm not good at debating and public speaking. So I ask you to leave me alone. I stated my ideas, let's leave it at that.

For those who aren't able to translate; I'll do my best. Ahem:

"I'm actually brainwashed by the media to fear anything slightly socialist in nature (despite the fact I would never refuse to utilize roads, the Fire Brigade or the Police Department); and while what you've said makes perfect sense I just can't accept that there might be something wrong with America. America is perfect, because we say it is."

Look; I love America. I've been there a number of times and I think it's a beautiful country and it has some wonderful people. I have so many unbelievable American friends and I'll be traveling there again next year to meet quite a few of them. But your country isn't perfect. And upon all the blemishes you have; the biggest, nastiest zit on the face of America? Health. For. Profit.

 

[Ineffable~]

For those who aren't able to translate; I'll do my best. Ahem:

"I'm actually brainwashed by the media to fear anything slightly socialist in nature (despite the fact I would never refuse to utilize roads, the Fire Brigade or the Police Department); and while what you've said makes perfect sense I just can't accept that there might be something wrong with America. America is perfect, because we say it is."

Seriously, what the hell's your problem?! I have not taken a single shot at you, not sad a single bad word to you. Why don't you just leave me alone? You're not cool.

 

[Bianca Paragon]

By defending a system that would see someone die for the sake of a dollar, you *have* taken a shot at me. Your health-care system; in which you believe and defend? It's an affront to anybody from a civilized and modern nation :( It means you value wealth over health; and *I* find that personally offensive.

 

[Ineffable~]

Valuing wealth over health is not the same thing as believing people should just keep the money that belongs to them. I'm glad if people want to help others but they should not be forced to, that is not the government's job.

As a clumsy and borderline-overweight middle-class minor with a college-going sister, I am one of the people that may benefit from this universal health care. But I don't want the government to control other people's money so much.

Gerald Ford said "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases".

Oh wait, he's a Republican, so you hate him. Sorry about that.

Let's just say that quote is often misattributed to Thomas Jefferson because he was against big government. So there's your other source. Big government is not good.

 

[Bianca Paragon]

So what you're saying is that you would rather pay for the police on a case by case basis; when you need them? And for fire-fighters? And that you think ALL roads and streets should be tolled at a nominal rate so that only the people who use them should pay for them? And of course, you want to pay for public education; too. Because ALL these things are socialist. WHY should health be ANY different?

 

[Ineffable~]

I like how you totally dodged my statement on big government...

 

[.little monster]

I like how you totally dodged my statement on big government...

She really didn't when you think about it. She was stating things that people used to say was a bad idea because it would create a bigger government, while now we see that it is better to have it than what we had before.

I like how you totally dodged her statement on how health care is really no more 'socialist' (Which I don't think it should be called so in any way) than what we already do.

 

[Ineffable~]

Actually I was planning on replying to that once she replied to the thing I said. But really, I think you are a prime example for Apple on how to debate without trolling. :D

 

[.little monster]

Actually I was planning on replying to that once she replied to the thing I said. But really, I think you are a prime example for Apple on how to debate without trolling. :D

I don't see how in any way she is trolling. Actually, you're being more of one yourself by calling her one and screaming "What the hell is your problem?" Just because someone disagrees with you and actually debates instead of calling you a troll, that doesn't make them one. Anyway, I will stop posting because I don't want to get more offtopic.

 

[Ineffable~]

I don't see how in any way she is trolling. Actually, you're being more of one yourself by calling her one and screaming "What the hell is your problem?" Just because someone disagrees with you and actually debates instead of calling you a troll, that doesn't make them one. Anyway, I will stop posting because I don't want to get more offtopic.

Well, I was saying that only because she started arguing with me even after I told her to stop, and she clearly insulted my intelligence... I didn't ask for a debate, I just posted my opinion.

 

[Bianca Paragon]

This thread IS a debate. Can you not read the title? I'll reiterate:
Debate: US Health Care Reform.
Bigger font? Centered?

Debate: US Health Care Reform.

Obviously if a thread title says debate; don't post here if you don't want your opinion to be torn to shreds.
​

 

[Ineffable~]

But seriously, if you're going to be mean about it, can't you just debate without trying to insult me? You obviously aren't responsible or mature enough. >.>

 

[Bianca Paragon]

I don't think I'm "being mean" about it at all. When people defend a system that supports the violation and annulment of basic human rights (like say..the German Nazi Party or the current US Health Care System) it basically says that the person in question shares those views. It's not my fault if you think that an attack on the system is an attack on you; but I'll always look down upon supporters of a flawed system because they obviously share the same flaw that got the system into action in the first place anyway.

You keep trying to provoke some kind of reaction from me with comments implying that obviously because I don't share *your* viewpoint that I *must* be trolling; and that I'm "obviously not responsible of mature enough". Well; honeybunch? I don't even need to bite to your silly attempts to bait and troll; because common sense and the right for all citizens of a first world country to have an equal chance at good health? That's all on my side. What's on your side? Fear of the government? Nice try.