Would Generation II be considered the best if it didn't come with 2 regions?

[Bluerang1]

Sorry for long title but let's face fact here. If Hoenn came with Johto, would that be the best? If Sinnoh came with Hoenn, would that be considered best Generation?

The only reason Johto came with Kanto is because it was a to it, they didn't think they could make more (I think) and when they realise they could, they couldn't fit all those regions in one game card.

So if Johto was just Johto, would it still be considered the best Generation because I really don't think it is. It's just a copy of Kanto, eg. Same type starters at full evolution stage (Grass/Poison *bore*) First pet encounters are same types (like Normal -Ratata/Furret-) At least Hoenn gave us a Dark type.

I'm sorry I'm slamming it but I was just wondering if Johto would be considered the best if it didn't have to regions, coming to think of it, only Crystal had two regions. Anyway, thinking of the regions themselves, does Johto really surpass Kanto, Hoenn (which I know realise I love except for the water routes, Mossdeep city <3) and Sinnoh (my favourite a sit's the first Generation I "owned" not borrowed :D)

Thanks :)

 

[Gary the Magic Fairy]

Johto being connected to Kanto is what made it great. It's treated as a continuation, rather than a reboot, like Hoenn was.

GSC brought you to a new, yet familiar region, 3 years after the original games. You still saw some old pokemon, some old faces. It felt like a new game but it didn't alienate you from the old. Then, it doesn't even stop there. They let you go back and see how far Kanto has come in those three years you didn't see. Buildings were changed, a volcano erupted and destroyed a major city, and you even got to see what became of yourself, and got to battle yourself. It provided some closure to an otherwise open-ended game. You did become the champion, and then you did it again by defeating the strongest trainer in the game, which just happened to be yourself.

Then, Generation 3 rolls around, and they drop you in this strange world where everything is totally different but eerily similar. There's no famliar faces, no creatures you've ever seen before... it's like none of the prior games ever happened, and your hard work was all for nothing.

THAT is why Generation 2 was the best.

 

[.Gamer]

Johto being connected to Kanto is what made it great. It's treated as a continuation, rather than a reboot, like Hoenn was.

Basically, that. It wasn't a new generation area, it was part of an old one. Also, the pokemon we got there, were just so, whats the word, AWESOME. I mean, after that most of the pokemon started to be copies of pokemon we already have. Most of the newer pokemon made the ones we know and loved, outclassed or were just pathetically subpar that they are worthless. (See Feebas, being a carbon copy of Magikarp)

 

[Katie_Q]

I understand the above posters. But it sounds like if it wasn't connected to kanto, it probably wouldn't be as good.

you even got to see what became of yourself, and got to battle yourself. It provided some closure to an otherwise open-ended game. You did become the champion, and then you did it again by defeating the strongest trainer in the game, which just happened to be yourself.

....but it wasn't really you, and probably didn't have the same pokemon as you did.

But I don't really remember. Silver was my first game when I was like 8 and I sucked majorly at it hehe...

 

[Polizard]

No sorry i dont think it was it is not my favorite region and never will be not that hyped for the remakes either (they come out in like a week) i like 3rd and forth gen the most. Im really not that happy with two regions in the one game because it was horribly executed (in gold and silver and crystal) it was like they just threw Kanto in it with no thought so i really dont think its the best i think it is the worst

 

[coolcatkim22]

Johto isn't the best because it has two regions.
It's the best because it was well planned out and executed.

Hoenn and Sinnoh aren't as good (I won't say suck because in all honestly they aren't that bad) because they were forced and followed a pattern and didn't try to support any Pokemon other then the ledgies.

P.S. Chikorita and it's family isn't part poison, dark was a rare type at the time (also hoenn and sinnoh had a normal Pokemon at the begining too) and how did crystal only have two regions?

 

[TheRichar]

Jhoto is considered one of the best because many people already saw pokwmon in Kanto so a continuation in Jhoto was a big thing, besides the pokemon's desing got better and the story kept beeing good, not like Hoen, or Sinnoh

 

[Yusshin]

Why do I like Johto so much?

1) It introduced the most features, other than the original game (breeding, held items, shinies, female character, SP. DEF & DEF, trainer rebattles, apricorns (which gave way to the Berries idea), Dark & Steel types. night & day system, events on certain days... I actually made a list, and it outclassed every other region, especially Sinnoh)
2) It was a continuation of Kanto rather than a completely different region in some distant land
3) The Pokemon didn't suck; after Johto, Nintendo lost all their ideas and started producing garbage Pokemon.
4) The overworld sprites are great in comparison to those of Hoenn and Sinnoh; the Sinnoh male sprite is really unappealing. The female is all right; both overworlds in Hoenn sucked.
5) Hoenn & Sinnoh just seem to be there to make cash off the poor saps who buy them; they're the exact same thing as the original Kanto & Johto pair, and just seems like some copy with a new team name and crappy Pokemon added in to make it "new". Gold/Silver/Crystal was the last creative generation.
6) The legendaries sucked after Johto. Lugia, Ho-oh, Mew, Mewtwo, Moltres, Zapdos, Articuno, Suicune, Raikou, Entei, and Celebi had charm! Since Hoenn & Sinnoh, they've added almost 2.5 the amount of legendaries that Kanto & Johto combined offered. In Hoenn, there were ten legendaries - ten! - ranging from the Regi'brothers to Deoxys. In Sinnoh, there were a grand total of fifteen more "legendaries" introduced. That's 25 legendaries in two series, compared to eleven from Kanto and Johto combined. Legendaries are so common now, that they can't even be called "legendaries" anymore. They're just Uber Pokemon now.

There are other things, but I forgot. I'll get back to that later.

 

[Kotowari]

I don't think it's just the fact that Kanto and Johto are linked that makes GenII so great.
But it is one of the things that does.
Though the New Pokémon from Johto are less in amount than the next generations, there are some great new Pokémon in it. Even now the majority of my favourites originates from the Johto Region (e.g. Houndoom, Typhlosion, Tyrannitar, Suicune, Umbreon, Espeon,...)
Also, when I first played Silver, I had no idea that Kanto was included.
Jotho also introduced the first real legendary Pokémon. Mew was the origin of all, Mewtwo was it's clone, Zapdos, Moltres and Articuno were merely Mythical Pokémon. Johto's Lugia and Ho-Oh had stories behind them that elevated those Pokémon to the God-status legendary beings have. Suicune, Entei and Raikou though similar to the bird trio of GenI, still have more legendary status than the birds.
Crystal had the first choice of female trainer, SGC had the Day and Night system.
Two new types were introduced, Dark and Steel, though they were rare.
Time- and event-based evolution (Umbreon/Espeon, Crobat...), breeding, berries, apricorns...

Johto became the gateway to what the next games would have. GSC introduced so many new things that playing the Pokémon games was still as much fun as the previous 3, yet felt like a whole new world.

 

[Jolene]

No. Johto would not be considered the best if it was not featured alongside Kanto. Johto is a tiny, linear region with little diversity in terms of landcapes. It is by far the most boring region in the series, and needed to be bundled with Kanto so that people would overlook its shortcomings.

 

[Omn]

No it would still be called the best because it came out with a ton of new features while the third and fourth gen just follow that with like two new features its not the same. And have you ever played the game,I get why you are asking this and that you've heard alot of reasoning saying it was the best because of the fact it had two but kanto wasn't the only reason.

 

[GlitchCity]

No it would still be called the best because it came out with a ton of new features while the third and fourth gen just follow that with like two new features its not the same..

Really now? Each Generation was building ontop of the previous Generation. And Generation III and IV introduced a variety of new features to pokemon, and if it wasnt for gen III and IV, Heartgold and Soulsilver wouldnt exist.

Generation II was the best in its time due to technology. And seeing that Johto is the smallest region out of the 4 it felt like they had to add kanto. Thats why a lot of people were upset about Generation III and IV because it didnt include 2 regions like Generation II did.

 

[Yusshin]

I made a list before.... Hoenn added Natures, wireless trades and battles, and two-way battling. It also added a "Where caught and what level" tab. Some type match-ups were also altered by this time.

Sinnoh offered the Dusk & Dawn Stone, the Characteristics tab in the Pokemon menu, and WiFi battling, trading, discussions, and the WiFi plaze.

Everything else, like the Poketech, didn't carry on into HGSS or other games, so it's not really adding a feature. It's adding a temporary unique feature, but not a feature overall that changes how all Pokemon games are played.

Johto added so much to the game; the region may be small, but it added the most features, and dramatically changed Pokemon. Forever.

 

[Kilroywuzheere]

I'd like someone to explain more why they think Gen 3 and 4 are better than why Gen 2 was the best. Personally, GSC are my favorite, because or all it added, not because of Kanto being added in. Kanto was an extra gold star, but adding a gold star to a piece of trash doesn't make it awesome. But adding a gold star to something already great makes it better.

But let's look at why I don't think Gen III/IV are better.

Gen III: It added Natures, one of the most annoying things in raising Pokemon since there isn't any real way to control which one your Pokemon gets. If you get the right one, good for you, if it gets a bad one, have fun rebreeding. Most the time I settle for one that just doesn't effect the stats I need or decreases one I won't use and one I can use.

Double battles, they're fun, but it doesn't change too awfully much in combat. While building a good 2v2 team takes different move sets, you can usually use a good 1v1 team and still do fairly well.

Gen III also fleshed out the new types a bit better, most of them were mediocre, some were alright, few were great. Also half the world was water. It wasn't even fixed so you could train on it, and was way too open, so they lose points.

Gen IV: They changed physical/special to be attack based instead of type based. Making certain pokemon more deadly, like Gyrados, who can now use Water moves without hitting like a sissy. This was a great change, although some Pokemon suffer tremendously for it.

They also added Wi-Fi, which is nothing but the logical extension of the original's trade and battle system so they don't gain any points for it. They'd have added it sooner if they had the technical capacity.

The pokemon added... A few good ones, but mostly mediocre. New evolution methods, they get no points for new stones since that's been around since the beginning. Divergent evolution was also pretty cool, but GSC beat them to the punch on that one.

Diamond and Pearl suffered from a base Pokedex that was cut too far down. Only one fire type besides the starter, and new Pokemon that you can't even get til you finish off the Elite Four. Platinum thankfully fixed that but they lose points for having to fix things.

And ledgendaries. Dear god, I don't need you to hand me my uber pokemon, I will find them myself if I want them thank you very much. Admittedly, GSC started the trend I believe, handing you the name sake ledgendary. Although maybe it wasn't a forced story battle.

But what really causes me to take issue with the newer generations wasn't how much they put in or changed, but what they took out that was great about GSC. Events, the ability to actually CATCH every ledgendary regardless of which game you got, Ditto in the base Pokedex, and they didn't do much with the day/night mechanic.

Feel free to correct or try arguing with me. I'd still like someone to tell me why they thing Gen 3+4 are better, not why Gen 2 is better/worse.

 

[ChrisTom]

^Epic Win^


I disagree that Gen II was better merely for Kanto. You see, the thing about Gen II was what I call the "Nostalgia Factor" Every time I walk into Azalea Town and talk to the old man who says:
"Ah, the Slowpoke have returned. Knowing them, they were probably just goofing off somewhere!"
I almost cry from the pure awesomeness of that. But then we go into practical gameplay. Gen II was perfect. It had Pokemon the user could aim for that were incredibly difficult to find (Introduction of Shinies and Pokerus) and at the same time it had a beautiful and diverse selection of Pokemon to choose from. There was a perfect balance in my opinion. They were originally going to put Jirachi in the game as a Rock/Flying, and that would've been awesome too*. But they swapped it into the next Gen. The only Problem I had was that there weren't enough unique rock types, but it make up for it with Larvitar at the end of the game. Also the Night and Day implication were genius, and gave it a more personal feel. And where would breeding be without Genders also introduced. And the Pokemon Worlds largest city based on population resides here. Goldenrod. I think having this game with only 3 cities, the Elite 4 and one cave/forest would've still made it the most Awesome Pokemon game ever. The gameplay was incredible, the Pokemon types were balanced, and all in all it was a great nostalgic game. And you can get all pi##y because you think Gen IV is the best and that the only reason Gen II is alive still is because it had Kanto but listen here and listen good:

I remember when I was 6. I got my first Pokemon Game. It was Gold. I played that game everywhere. I had no friends at the time. That lvl 9 Cyndaquil was my only friend in the world. So if you want to think that because something is newer it's better than fine. But when I had not another friend in the world, I could pick up the Gameboy, and say hello to Cyndaquil, one of the best friends I ever had. So he's not real, but I loved him like he was real. And some of the most real things in the world, are the things we can't see.


Now, sorry for that large rant.
*Also Jirachi has been mildly proven to have been originally a Gen II Pokemon. It was going to be based off of a Meteor (hence the Rock/Flying) and can be obtained through odd cheats. There is a thread here that Mildly proves it, but I believe. Crazier things have happened in the Pokemon world mind you. Should I bring up Gastrodon in Gen III?

 

[Myles]

@Kilroyquzheere:

I think you might be suffering from some nostalgia specs. Not because you prefer Gen II, but because you won't even give Gen III and IV what they did right. You instead come up with contrived reasons to exclude them.

But this isn't a 'most new features added' contest. It's a 'best' contest. Otherwise Gen I would always win hands down for inventing the concept.

 

[Yusshin]

Kanto invented the concept; Johto added the most features. Features do take part in it, because if Johto hadn't invented genders, breeding, night and day, happiness factors, etc., it would have failed. Like, epicly failed. It'd be Red/Blue with no female character, a bit of colour, no moving sprites, and a tad different of a storyline.

Kanto being in G/S/C and HGSS is icing on the cake. Johto was already amazing. It built on many, many factors that Kanto left out (sort of like an expansion pack with a lot of good stuff in it). it's the best in the series because of how it burst new, unforgettable features into the game.

If there was no breeding, where would Pokemon be right now?

No breeding for IVs, no breeding for natures, no breeding for gender.

If there was no happiness value, where would we be?

Without Umbreon, that's for sure.

No moving sprites? Boring battles.

No night and day system? No HootHoot, Chingling, etc.

No apricorns? Then berries wouldn't have developed.

No held items? No left-overs, no Life Orb, etc.

Among many other things. Johto reigns supreme for having added the most ground-breaking features in the Pokemon series.

That's what makes it awesome. It was the first time we experienced these features, and it was explosive. It totally changed how Pokemon was played; Hoenn developed on that with Abilities and Natures. Sinnoh... didn't really do anything to develop on it.

 

[Pink Cashmere]

I'm going to have to agree with what Yusshin and ChrisTom are saying here. The reason that Johto was great was not because the flimsily done Kanto (in my opinion, anyway) was tacked on, but because of what it introduced to us. The second generation showed the creators' ambition to move forward, to allow the series to grow.

It was the first game to truly allow us to feel interactivity with the Pokemon. While in the first game, I'm one to believe that the Pokemon seemed more like tanks to risk our in the feild, they felt more personal in gen. II, in my opinion; with the ability to groom them and bond and whatnot. You have to understand that for those of us that transitioned from the first generation to this one, it was a mind shattering experience.

And because I know it's going to be mentioned, gen. III did a lot to Pokemon today, too. While it did, unfortunetley, take out a lot of the favorite features from its predecessors, it does earn recognition for what it did do right.

 

[Yusshin]

imo, the only thing Gen III added to Pokemon was Natures and Abilities - sure, they're key, but not as key as what Johto offered.

Gen IV added WiFi, but that was already integrated with the DS. Just had to script it into the game. I can't think of anything else Gen IV added that really stood out.

Gen II added Shinies, by the way - and we all know how important THOSE are!

 

[Pink Cashmere]

The main thing gen. III excelled itself in besides natures and abilities was its graphics, imo. Each Pokemon had their own sprite in the menu, the whole world of Pokemon itself became much more colorful, and I think the art took a different direction than it was originally going for (whether it's a new person that was hired to do the sprites or the style simply changed, I'm unaware of however.)

I'm sure someone can add more to this, but that's how I see gen. III's contribution to the series as a whole.