Trump Declares National Emergency

[EnglishALT]

I'm going to lay this out one point at a time:


1. The Cost: Trump first estimated it would cost anywhere between $4 and $12 billion, and the numbers keep changing. His idea was to build a 2,000-mile wall that's 35 feet high. Engineers are estimating, however, that it would cost $10 billion for the concrete panels, $5 billion for steel columns to hold the panels (labor included), and $1 billion for the foundation. Then we have to take transportation into account. We'd have to build roads to accommodate trucks hauling concrete and steel to remote locations in the middle of the desert. Let's be generous and say that costs another $2 billion. Now add 30 percent for management costs, engineering, and design. That makes $23.4 billion dollars if everything goes according to budget. Which it won't. When was the last time any major government project stayed within its budget? And that's just building it. The wall also has to be maintained. The Congressional budget office says the cost for that would exceed the building cost in only seven years. AND you have to staff it. Even if you only assigned one person per mile, that's 2,000 federal workers per shift, and they all need salaries, pensions, insurance, all that stuff.

That is of course with the original plan for concrete barriers instead of steel slats, not taking into account the wall around built in 2006, and the lack of a wall when natural barriers are already in place.

2. It would only stop half of illegal entries. The idea that all illegals are the result of people sneaking or being smuggled across the border is a myth. Half of them enter through airports, trains, and other legitimate ways, and then overstay their visas. The wall won't stop that. And those who do sneak in come with legit trade cargo and other means. Trump hasn't said anything about more inspections of goods crossing the border.

And? If it stops even half of the illegals crossing, that is still a massive amount.

Furthermore, the Wall would likely be worthless as a barrier. Proponents point to the one in Israel, even though tunnels have been found under that one frequently, some of them miles long and wide enough to drive a car through! The Berlin Wall was breached so often - despite armed guards with shoot-to-kill orders - that Berlin now has a museum at Checkpoint Charlie dedicated to such escapes.

It is also worth noting that since the wall was constructed in Israel, suicide bombings dropped dramatically and continue to drop.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/background-and-overview-of-israel-s-security-fence

Also as discussed previously, areas in which the walls have gone up in America have seen a drastic decrease in illegal immigration.

Far from being a worthless barrier.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ector-proves-it-elaine-duke-column/586853001/

4. Mexico will never pay for it. Here's a brief lesson in Mexican politics. They have elected officials just like we do. They have political parties, just like we do, they're divided on the issues, just like we are, and they hate each other as much as American politicians do.
But they all agree that siding with Trump on this issue is political suicide. Their current President won by a landslide by making "refusal to cave to Trump" part of his platform.

I doubt any Trump supporters really care, however there are ways to make "Mexico" pay for the wall from using seized drug money as Senator Cruz has suggested, to putting a tax on remittance to countries with high illegal immigration.

5. Much of the proposed wall is on private property. In Texas, no less, a state Republicans simply cannot afford to lose. You can argue Eminent Domain all you like. Courts are already backlogged decades with similar cases..

Eminent Domain would be used properly here, unlike for say a new shopping mall as it has been used for in the past, and most likely will be the use here.

6. You think this will stop smugglers? It's already making them rich! Mexican cartels who smuggle drugs and smuggle people across the border are already charging more for their services by using the threat of the wall as an excuse for hazard pay. And again, this is no barrier

High costs however far less product getting through, that is not helpful to smugglers.

7. It will never be finished. To give a comparison, the I-80 highway took 30 years to build, and that didn't have any of the above problems. Even if Trump wins a second term, his successor will likely cancel the project. Some idealists think Pence is next in line, but even if, by some miracle he is, Pence ain't stupid. He quickly cancelled his Religious Freedoms Act when he realized the economic disaster it was about to cause Indianapolis, and it's doubtful he wants this even worse disaster on his shoulders.

600 miles of fencing was built between 2007 and 2009, more than likely a similar amount if not more could be built now as well.

Edit: This just in: Trump's own lawyers now say his national emergency is unconstitutional and impeachable:

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/tr...al-impeachable/?utm_source=push_notifications

I doubt you will find any lawyer that says that Trump cannot use an emergency action, or that it is unconstitutional, he in reality it seems is on far more solid ground than Obama with DACA because Congress has authorized the President to engage in declarations of national emergencies.

 

[Maedar]

And? If it stops even half of the illegals crossing, that is still a massive amount.



It is also worth noting that since the wall was constructed in Israel, suicide bombings dropped dramatically and continue to drop.

As we have said, repeatedly, illegal entry is already on a decline, but Trump calls such reports "Fake News":

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/31/5308...ngs-are-down-and-so-is-business-for-smugglers

I doubt any Trump supporters really care, however there are ways to make "Mexico" pay for the wall from using seized drug money as Senator Cruz has suggested, to putting a tax on remittance to countries with high illegal immigration.

Trump has no authority to tax other nations.

Eminent Domain would be used properly here, unlike for say a new shopping mall as it has been used for in the past, and most likely will be the use here.

Here's an article on how the government already misused it:

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/go...er-fence-texas/?utm_source=push_notifications

They'd just add more cases to the backlog, and I'd argue Trump does not know how to do any legal matter "properly".

Again, losing votes in the biggest Red State will not make his reelection chances better.

I doubt you will find any lawyer that says that Trump cannot use an emergency action, or that it is unconstitutional, he in reality it seems is on far more solid ground than Obama with DACA because Congress has authorized the President to engage in declarations of national emergencies.

More Whataboutism? I will say that claiming Obama was a dictator for imposing DACA but saying it's okay when Trump does the same is blatant hypocrisy. Also, the Supreme Court has already refused to hear Trump on DACA when he tried to use that as a "bargaining chip".

 

[EnglishALT]

As we have said, repeatedly, illegal entry is already on a decline, but Trump calls such reports "Fake News":

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/31/5308...ngs-are-down-and-so-is-business-for-smugglers

Note the year, 2017, as oppose to 2018...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/illegal-northern-border-crossings-on-the-rise/

Trump has no authority to tax other nations.

It would not be a tax on another nation, it would be a tax paid by the person when they send money to another nation.

Here's an article on how the government already misused it:

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/go...er-fence-texas/?utm_source=push_notifications

They'd just add more cases to the backlog, and I'd argue Trump does not know how to do any legal matter "properly".

Again, losing votes in the biggest Red State will not make his reelection chances better.

It is doubtful he would lose any votes through the use of Eminent Domain in Texas, especially since the border counties are heavily blue.

More Whataboutism? The Supreme Court has already refused to hear Trump on DACA when he tried to use that as a "bargaining chip".

You... posted an article specifically mentioning DACA, there is no Whataboutism when I was explaining the very article you used.

 

[Maedar]

ALT, it's obvious you will never disagree with Trump no matter how much evidence I present, so I will just leave off here:

Trump said himself that he is using a National Emergency for something that is not an emergency.

And that WILL be used against him in court.

 

[Maedar]

Oh, it certainly WAS an "idiotic slip", a slip revealing his true intentions. Not his first, not his last.

EDIT: This just in. Seems Trump isn't too concerned with his "emergency" as he claims:

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/ke...-bar-country-state-emergency/?comments=disqus

An omelet bar. Honestly.

 

[Nah]

I'm late but:

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/26/6983...o-block-trumps-national-emergency-declaration

The Democratic-led House approved by a 245-182 vote a resolution on Tuesday that would terminate President Trump's declaration of a national emergency at the U.S.-Mexico border — a declaration he made to allow him to access funds to build a wall without congressional consent.

Only 13 Republicans joined Democrats to oppose the president, signaling that Congress will not ultimately have the veto-proof margin required to override Trump.

The resolution now heads to the Senate.

 

[EnglishALT]

I'm late but:

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/26/6983...o-block-trumps-national-emergency-declaration

That seems kind of useless, like the Republican Congress passing numerous Obamacare repeals while obama was in office. The Senate does not have the votes to overturn a veto, so it really doesn't matter if it is passed or not.

 

[Maedar]

Here, try thinking like a lawyer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnDVl793v8k

 

[EnglishALT]

Here, try thinking like a lawyer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnDVl793v8k

Quite telling that Legal Eagle, who leans left somewhat in his more political videos ( His Kavanaugh hearing video solely focusing on Justice Kavanaugh and not also looking at the testimony of Dr Ford for example ) even admits that both sides have points that can be made and it's a toss up. Alot of this can probably be considered a "political question" by the courts, in that if Congress thinks the funding should be pulled they should pass a bill doing so. As for the question regarding the need of a wall to deter illegal immigration, and making it an emergency issue....

"It's the second time in as many weeks that such a group has been encountered at Sunland Park. In mid-February, 311 people made their way around a pedestrian fence under the cover of darkness before being taking into custody. That was less than 24 hours after another group of 330 people were apprehended more than 150 miles (240 kilometers) to the west near the Antelope Wells port of entry.

More than two dozen large groups of 100 migrants or more have been apprehended in the region since Oct. 1, according to border officials."

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...of-180-migrants-arrested-at-new-mexico-border

 

[Maedar]

Still, illegal crossings remain at an all-time low, something you keep trying to deny while screaming about nonexistent "caravans" and "invasion armies" coming to invade homes and kidnap women. It's starting to get tedious to the point of ridiculous. Your own article proves that this large group was apprehended without the need of any such wall.

The fact remains, ALT, Trump has declared a National Emergency for something that he has admitted is NOT an emergency, and that is, for him and the Republican Party as a whole, a Morton's Fork.

He loses in court, and his flagship campaign promise will be gone.

He wins in court and the next President - and let's be honest given Trump's abysmal record and approval ratings will likely be a Democrat after he loses reelection - will be able to declare a National Emergency for anything. Outlaw and confiscate assault rifles, make DACA applicants full citizens, abolish Citizens United, every single thing the Republican Party opposes, and will do so without opposition from Congress.

Not to mention tearing down whatever part of the wall Trump manages to build.

Trump has, in effect, made a terrible mistake. And he refuses to learn.

 

[EnglishALT]

Still, illegal crossings remain at an all-time low, something you keep trying to deny while screaming about nonexistent "caravans" and "invasion armies" coming to invade homes and kidnap women. It's starting to get tedious to the point of ridiculous.

"There were nearly 467,000 apprehensions at the U.S.-Mexico border in 2018, the most for any calendar year since at least 2012, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of the most recent available data from U.S. Customs and Border Protection. The increase was driven in part by a dramatic spike in border apprehensions of family members at the end of last year."

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...lies-have-risen-substantially-so-far-in-2018/

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/15/illegal-immigration-border-back-obama-levels/

The fact remains, ALT, Trump has declared a National Emergency for something that he has admitted is NOT an emergency, and that is, for him and the Republican Party as a whole, a Morton's Fork.

Did he say it wasn't a national emergency, or did he say "I could do the wall over a longer period of time, I do not need to do this, but I would rather do it much faster."?

He loses in court, and his flagship campaign promise will be gone.

How so?

He wins in court and the next President - and let's be honest given Trump's abysmal record and approval ratings will likely be a Democrat after he loses reelection - will be able to declare a National Emergency for anything. Outlaw and confiscate assault rifles, make DACA applicants full citizens, abolish Citizens United, every single thing the Republican Party opposes, and will do so without opposition from Congress.

No, not really, especially confiscate assault rifles as those at the moment would be covered by the Second Amendment. All Trump is doing is moving unspent money from one thing to another, the powers are broad but not unlimited.

Not to mention tearing down whatever part of the wall Trump manages to build.

For a party that already is desperately trying not to look weak on border security, THAT would make them look really weak.

 

[Maedar]

ALT, just how do you define "emergency"?

Did you even view the video I posted?

Trump admits "I do not need to do this", and IMOHO, that is an admission that it is not an emergency.

 

[EnglishALT]

ALT, just how do you define "emergency"?

Did you even read the video I posted?

I didn't "read" it, I watched it, I am a subscriber to Legal Eagle's channel, as for the definition of National Emergency, that by law pretty much goes with what ever the President decides, however the power is not unlimited and allows him to become a dictator, there are limits.

Trump admits "I do not need to do this", and IMOHO, that is an admission that it is not an emergency.

Well see that is going to be up to interpretation by the court, as the argument can clearly also go with him saying "I do not need to do this" in that he can go through Congress to get the funds, however because he views it as an emergency, he does not want to go through the long process to get the funds, as the emergency is currently harming the country.

 

[LDSman]

I would point out that just because illegal crossings may be lower now, that doesn't mean they won't climb back up later.

Edit: and low is an opinion anyway. Is hundreds of thousands low?

 

[Maedar]

...as the emergency is currently harming the country.

How so?

I certainly don't see the gangs of MS-13 thugs kidnapping and invading homes that he insists is there

 

[EnglishALT]

How so?

I certainly don't see the gangs of MS-13 thugs kidnapping and invading homes that he insists is there

Might not want to tell that to New York cops

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...planning-to-target-long-island-cops-nypd/amp/

That being said he can and probably will make the case that between the drug epidemic, and atleast 500,000 illegally crossing the border in 2018, that there is an emergency need for a wall.

 

[Nah]

He loses in court, and his flagship campaign promise will be gone.

How so?

If the federal courts strike down his declaration of a national emergency, then there is no longer a declared national emergency (or at least this particular one anyway), yes? If there isn't, then he can't make use of the emergency powers act to acquire funds for the wall via means other than Congress. And as the past few months have shown, Congress (or a large enough part of it at least) is not willing to give him the funding for his wall and that obviously hasn't changed. And then in that scenario, he has no means to get the money for his wall, and so it won't be built.

Unless there is some other way for him to get funding for the wall that doesn't involve either Congress or a national emergency.

 

[Maedar]

I should also point out, ALT, that as their Wikipedia page clearly shows, MS-13 was founded in Los Angeles.

Much like the Bloods and the Crips, but strangely, Trump doesn't seem to care about other gangs known for violence. He just singles out the ones that Hispanics join.

God forbid he'd show such animosity to the Klan. Who have been around far longer and committed far more murders. But he claims those are "fine people".

 

[EnglishALT]

If the federal courts strike down his declaration of a national emergency, then there is no longer a declared national emergency (or at least this particular one anyway), yes? If there isn't, then he can't make use of the emergency powers act to acquire funds for the wall via means other than Congress. And as the past few months have shown, Congress (or a large enough part of it at least) is not willing to give him the funding for his wall and that obviously hasn't changed. And then in that scenario, he has no means to get the money for his wall, and so it won't be built.

Unless there is some other way for him to get funding for the wall that doesn't involve either Congress or a national emergency.

He has received a billion dollars for the wall with the latest budget which I believe adds 50 miles to it, as such he could claim victory and say he built a wall on the Mexico border. However I have a feeling one campaign slogan for 2020 will be "Finish the wall"

I should also point out, ALT, that as their Wikipedia page clearly shows, MS-13 was founded in Los Angeles.

Much like the Bloods and the Crips, but strangely, Trump doesn't seem to care about other gangs known for violence. He just singles out the ones that Hispanics join.

God forbid he'd show such animosity to the Klan. Who have been around far longer and committed far more murders. But he claims those are "fine people".

Okay... what does that have to do with the border, or Trump's emergency declaration. You know the topic of this discussion?

 

[Maedar]

He has received a billion dollars for the wall with the latest budget which I believe adds 50 miles to it, as such he could claim victory and say he built a wall on the Mexico border. However I have a feeling one campaign slogan for 2020 will be "Finish the wall"

Assuming he even runs.

Most pundits have now declared the Republican Party deceased.

Okay... what does that have to do with the border, or Trump's emergency declaration. You know the topic of this discussion?

Because I am trying to explain to you that Trump's need for a wall is an obsession born out of his bigotry and egotism. He hates Hispanics, and wants to wall off Mexico. THAT is why I honestly believe he wants the wall. The "invasion" only exists in his sick mind.

Trump claims there's some invasion army of MS-13 punks, which is completely fabricated. Much like everything he says. There is, again, NO emergency.