Barrels

The debate becomes less fun if you go and research everything :P. I am speaking only from anecdotal evidence. You won't find the true nature of any of this written anywhere on the internet, it has to be observed, which is what I've spent a great deal of time doing. I have anecdotal evidence up the wazoo (yes, the wazoo!)

In the end though, I think what a lot of this comes down to is perspective. A lot of the things I've said you've basically agreed with and then said "but this is a good thing" or "this is the way it should be" and I simply don't agree a lot of the time. It's OK though, I don't really expect you or anybody else to understand why I find this to be such a disturbing phenomenon, no matter how hard or how articulately I try to explain it. And the fact that most of your arguments make a lot of sense for some reason doesn't change the fact that every time I hear of someone being pregnant I still think "Damn, we've lost another one".

Anyway yes, we seem to be breaking a ton of records for the longest VM ever, to the point where it has become too indimidating even for me... so I'm going to stop for now :P. I want to keep going, but I'd prefer to do it next time you have the time to come on Skype so I can actually think on my feet and reply rather than having to sit here for more than an hour painstakingly coming up with a rebuttal for each argument you've made... because my **** there are a lot of them. Like, I was sitting there for half an hour reading over everything you said and trying to articulate the answers and it's just so overwhelming lmao. Also, I think if we're talking in person I might come off a whole lot less unlikeable than I feel like I do in these VMs XD

Haha, I'm not sure at what point this turned from me ranting about why I hate children into an actual full-fledged debate, but I'm not complaining xD

The thing is, everything you're saying makes sense on the face of it, and I hope to Jeebus that it is all true because if it were, it would make me at least 50% more comfortable with the idea of children (only 50% as even your version of the whole thing is still a little more perverse than I would like). But as much as I want to believe it, I've heard too many people - not just actresses, but other people closer to me and my life - humming the same old tune to have the picture in my head wavered by an argument even as logical and persuasive as yours.

To continue the computer metaphor; I honestly do think it is more than a patch. If not a whole new operating system then at least something between the two... perhaps a behavioural software patch, two new drivers and an improved battery life with a back-up generator powered by your newfound loooove. A simple patch could not possibly be enough to create this intense and instantaneous transformation that so many people - Brooker included - have described. Perhaps it is more akin to being possessed; who you were is not 'gone' per se, but remains deep inside you, fighting tooth and nail to claw its way back to the surface but ultimately being pushed down into complacent submission by the love-induced endorphins, progesterone and other override protocols set in motion by the transformative software.

Your characterisation of the bad parents out there actually makes me more uncomfortable rather than easing my concerns. That says to me that this transformation is not just something that happens whether we like it or not (yet post-transformation do like whether the person we were before would like it or not, as they get pushed head-first down into the depths of our memory), but something that must happen because if it doesn't then the person in question is destined to be... *dun dun DUNNN* ... a bad parent. So the two options that are open to you are to either succumb to the irreversible software update and change who you are as a person forever, or reach into your inner strength to fight it and keep yourself at the expense of a defenseless little creature who you are then destined to spend the next 18 years of your life crushing into a shell of what he or she could have been. This is not a comforting thought.

For some anecdotal evidence of what happens to a person when they become a parent (even if they never wanted a child), and how it changes them from an interesting person into an insufferable brain-washed drone, read this case study written by an incredibly wise man whose keen observational skills pick up things that most fail to see. For added effect, read it while listening to this song in the background.

In any event, my argument was never that a parent should neglect their child, but that society should stop placing them on a pedestal and making them into what should be the most important thing to everybody, whether you actually own one or not. I know far too many parents who think that everybody else should care about their child just as much as they do because of this, and that is not right. Children are not the most important thing in society. Not even close. One might argue that children are our future, but I must counter that if we spend all your time worrying about the future, when are we going to enjoy the present?

I notice that a lot of your arguments are coming from the perspective of the child and how it would affect the child... in other words, you're arguing as a parent xD. What I'm talking about is how the child affects you, not how you affect it. And this is the problem... nobody thinks of that. From the moment a child is born, everything is about the child. The world moves to accommodate it, and it's gotten to the point where we've seen protection of children come at the expense of the freedoms of adults. Some examples of this include the lack of an R18 video game rating in my state, authorities instead preferring to ban the games that would fit into that category; the proposed SOPA and PIPA acts (as well as the current CISPA), which are designed in part to protect children from online predators yet had the potential to filter out many legitimate sites, including porn; and the Parents Television Council, made up primarily of women who are so into their children that they aim to get any and every non-family friendly TV show cancelled just to accommodate their little cherubs.

And then finally, back on the subject of parents (I thought of something else haha), with the transformation comes a change of perspective. After the parenthood software is installed, many people who used to be pro-choice become pro-life, many who used to be pro-freedom instead begin to fight for the protection of the innocence of children above all else. We are losing soldiers in the fight for liberty. Every day we lose more. There is too much of people saying "I can't do that, I'm a parent now".

This is starting to feel oddly like a duel between Bellatrix and Molly Weasley, and the disturbing part is I'm Bellatrix XD

YOU COME ONLINE AND POST IN MY CLUB BUT DON'T EVEN TALK TO ME?!

I am suicidal now, I hope you know this :( feelings so hurt.

So it will mess kids up if they are not the centre of the universe? XD - I think if anything that would teach them more values and give them far more life-skills than the over-protection with which we shower them now :P. I'm not suggesting we sideline them, just re-adjust our priorities above the baser instinct and realise that there are other things in life which are equally if not more important. Also, please never refer to yourself as a 'bumpkin' :P

In any case, I'd love to get a screencap collage of this VM conversation and somehow send it to Brooker and get his thoughts on the matter. I'm sure he might be able to set a few things straight once and for all, being the only person who is really qualified to break the tie. Also I'd just love to get his thoughts on it in general; because honestly while I hope you're right, the way I see it right now is the second you clap eyes on your child, everything you once were is just drained out of your body and replaced with something else. You're no longer a person, who you were is gone. The light in your eyes just leaves and is left with this cold dead (yet happy!) robotic child-protection software.

That metaphor derailed somewhere along the line, but I think you get my point :P

Anyway, I hope you are right... though even then it doesn't necessarily make it OK. It still doesn't make you the same person you were pre-baby. The very thought is horrifying to me lol.

AND YAY THANK YOU FOR JOINING MY CLUB YOUR POST WAS AMAZING.

I read this VM this morning when I didn't have time to reply and now it's like 6pm so I hope I've replied to everything haha, I'm looking over it again and again trying to make sure I missed nothing XD. Also I do want to read this HP fan fic of yours. It can't be that terrible, if you wrote it. At the very least tell me what it was about :P

Well children are not the only targets of my rage XD - I do also hate society for putting them on a pedestal and saying "these are the most important things ever" and I hate the glandular parenting instincts that cause that immediate priority shift the moment one sees his or her newborn child. But it is far easier to hate the children themselves as this happens simply by virtue of their existence... not to mention the fact that they are loud, obnoxious, annoying, sticky carriers of germs who seem to strive intentionally to be altogether unworthy of the pedestal upon which they are so smugly placed.

And yes, that second article is the amazing latest one that I was talking about in my second VM - man that was fantastic beyond words XD. Though I must admit that after reading that chidren article it's hard to shake the feeling that no matter how amazing his writing still is, it is post-priority-shift and therefore he doesn't enjoy the work as much as he once did, instead preferring to spend time with his new baby because that is more important than any article he could ever write. It's the same way I feel about actresses who have children and then give interviews saying "acting used to be the most important thing to me in the world, but now I have a child and motherhood is so much more important, so I still like acting, but it's just a job - I'm far more interested in getting home to my little guy at the end of the day." While it doesn't seem to affect their performance in the film in the slightest, I can't help but wish they actually wanted to be there. I'd like the movie that is so important to me to be a little more important to the people who actually spend the time to make it.

Though one could argue that in the case of Brooker, as the article about his newborn was posted on April 1st it was all one huge prank and thus utterly ignorable :P

You could say that Brooker has been indirect inspiration to me as well in some of the things I've written, as I myself have tried to channel the spirit of Zero Punctuation and his lightning fast wit (to varying levels of success) without any knowledge of the fact that he was inspired by Brooker.

Though - YOU SIR. Paragraph two and three of your VM. Oh my God. Just oh my God. If you do not become a writer I will personally come and smash your knees with a baseball bat so that you are forever in a wheelchair and have no choice but to write :P. Just amazing I don't even.

LMAO at his next article though; his latest one. That one is pure gold.

I simultaneously love and hate that article. I love it because the guy does seem to have his head in place and seems to still get that people hate talking about babies; he seems like a really cool guy. I hate it for the same reason I hate kids. It's not because they're loud and obnoxious and sticky and gross; those are just added irritations. I hate them for what they do to people - for what they turn them into, and more specifically, I hate them for exactly what that guy described:

It's irreversible, and it's perverse to the extreme, and I don't understand how nobody else is as disturbed by it as I am. That guy is not a person anymore, and he'll never be a person again - because he had that change. Now he's a "father". He's a father first and a human being second and the mind-wiped way that he no longer minds - the fact that he was one of us, hating on parents beforehand, and now he's one of them and "gets it" as though through some form of soul-bending enlightenment - just makes me feel terrible for him. I would not wish that on my worst enemy.


................talking about this turns me oddly dark, doesn't it? XD. I'm not sure if I like the way this makes me sound, but I can't help how I feel haha.

I'm sorry, the hatred runs deeper than exfoliation can erase, but I do love that turn of phrase!

Oh. My. God. I read that poem just as I was falling asleep last night and I don't think I have laughed so much in a long time. Please tell me you're going to be a writer or something when you grow up because you sir, have a gift. You are more clever than I could ever hope to be :P Just... bahahahahahaha omg. Words cannot describe the majesty of that goddamn thing.

You're a BUFFY VIRGIN? DID I KNOW THIS? Then how did we bond over our love of Whedon! I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER THE EARLY DAYS OF OUR CONVERSING ANYMORE BUT I DON'T THINK I KNEW THIS!

But yeah, Felicia Day makes her premiere in the final season so you wouldn't have seen her :P. But yes, she is trapped in my avatar for now, but she doesn't mind. In fact, here she is to sing you a song about it!

I don't know how you imagine male-on-male affairs, but 'tender' is never a word that can be used in their description. You can be as poetic as you like, but poetry does not explain why you're walking funny :P

I guessed about the walrus light show because that's literally the only explanation! How did you ever come across such a job?!

You, sir, are a terrible Buffy fan if you do not know the name of the woman trapped in my avatar! TERRIBLE! You are an elder in the Church of Rowling, Whedon and Jolie!

and lmao about my Tumblr - I'm trying to update it more often but I'm not having as many interactions with children as I thought :P

You do realise the more you deny your relationship the more you hurt Bruce. He did nothing to deserve that (except for the few women he killed).

And you operate the laser light machines for the walrus show at the zoo?!

LOL I only just got this. I was here from when I said I would be; you were meant to look for me on Skype, not on PC! XD

Also I just realised after we talked, you spent so long giving me that whole big speech about your stint in prison being Big Bruce's wife that you never actually told me what your new job IS.

Well, I'll be the judge of whether your excuse is moderately good when I talk to you :P

and I agree Skype is more appropriate, but you must come on Skype for this to be plausible! Our countries are now 9 hours apart so it means it's midnight there when I get up at 9am. There is no excuse for a 17 year old in the PRIME OF HIS LIFE not to be able to stay up til a bit after midnight :P however IF YOU ARE THAT OCTAGENARIAN-LIKE, I get home from work tonight at a bit after 9pm and I go to bed at around 1:30-2. For you this is from midday to 4:30-5 :P

and oooo job! Do you get paid for this one? :P

DUDE. APRIL 9TH. APRIL 9TH WAS OUR LAST VM AND NOW IT IS APRIL 19TH. You better have a very good excuse, that's all I'm saying!!!

I remember you... but only just. I am awake now however :D

Tell me of this Harry Potter fight!

I replied to you within five minutes, how even?! D:

It was 3:54 AM when you sent that VM, there was not a chance of me waking up! :P BUT NOW I AM HERE SO SKYPE NAO!

And I actually don't know why we get presents for Easter haha - it's actually weird, it's sort of like it's become a mini-Christmas with chocolates lol.

YOU. YOU ARE HERE. YOU SKYPE NAO.

You sir, are beautiful. I want to pat your orange fur and give you a huge hug. But the hug thing is no different from normal :P I do still want to see an actual picture of you though, especially if you look like Darren Criss.

And yes every mod gets one if they want one XD - I thought McGonagall was appropriate considering my undying love for her haha (holy **** it's nearly been a year since the last film came out, that terrifies me beyond belief). AND TELL GINA TO STAY SO SHE CAN DESERVE SOME EMBLEMS. It's a chicken or egg situation there! Which is oddly appropriate because it's Easter today! :P

The... Joe... to your Darren? I don't understand that reference D: I feel like a bad Glee fan or something haha. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!

And bwahahahahaha... see, now you think about sex all the time too. It is life, after all!

Omg I got so many VMs last night for various reasons that I forgot to reply to my favourite one! D:

I'll buy my phone a new cover - the one it has is worn out and chipped and horrible so it deserves a treat XD

I'm glad you like your emblems!!!! The gem one is the one you get for being an awesome new member and I am probably long overdue in giving it to you and the other one is my own personal ego emblem that I can just give out to the people I like XD.

LMAO. I just looked up The Lorax and I'm trying to imagine Darren Criss with a dash of him thrown in. Though dude, if you look even a little bit like Darren Criss, I honestly don't understand how you could ever have thought your girlfriend was out of your league. You are the league.

And I feel like I missed something haha - why did that gif remind you of me? xD - not that I'm complaining, the guy is hot.

LMFAO. This is what happens when you send a VM from a phone with autocorrect at 2:40 AM when you're so sleepy you just want to die. I'm not even sure what I was trying to say lmao. That "their" was actually meant to be a "but" so I have no idea what the hell happened there haha

and d'awwwwwwww XD - you know, in my head I actually imagine you to look a little like Darren Criss. That's just the image my mind formed haha

That sent twice because of my phone. Think yourself lucky that you get two for the price of one! Three really if you include this!

You are cool and edgy naturally, you don't need to try!

My favorite is Darren Criss also haha... are you SURE you're straight? XD *gets hopes up*

No they haven't replied, their they always take forever so that's no indication! And I'll make that emblem especially for you. And no, no emblem gosh! Staff don't care about emblems, if you're going to be one you have to BE COOL.