Hassan_Abdillah

lol
Its the subject i dislike the most.

i'm browsing pc on my mobile atm and its really fun. 8D

My poor brain was tortured the entire day at the coaching centre. :< I hate physics. ;-;

what about you?

Yeah, it is. Go to Profile Privacy in the User CP and then set the albums to 'Your Friends'.

The Friend list is just... a list of your friends at PC. xD

We too had another week to go, but the vacations started early because it was too hot. xD

Thankies. ^.^

Even though there's no school for now, I've joined these coaching classes to get into IIT (Indian Institute of Technology). It's supposed to be the best engineering college over here. Ever heard of it? Probably not. :p

And why aren't you on my friend list yet? Let me sort this out now. xD

I was really busy all this while, and since today was my last day of school, time to enjoy vacations to the fullest. :D Haven't your summer vacations begun yet?

Other chat, ah. I don't go there often because I hate being involved in serious discussions. xD Other Voting Polls and the general Pokemon forums are the only ones I frequent.

So far so good. xD When school reopens I'll be really busy again. :<

What about you? I hadn't seen you around for quite a long while.

Hello :P

Oh hai! Things are pretty eased up on me. I have a long break till the 18th of April, so I've been chilling out the entire day. :p

Hiii~ I lingered over your post in "What's your religion?" thread and I find your opinions really thought provoking and intriguing regarding Islam. :) Do you study religion?

Why hello :3

And I'm not really sure why I find religion so interesting. I think it's because there are so many different variations and everyone has their own opinion of it. Everyone I talk to about comes up with something I never considered before.

I'd say that Deism is mostly an individualistic belief, but that the tenants remain for groundwork for those who want to believe in it. I'll put the questions individually to make it easier on myself and probably you too, haha.

where is your intellectual security coming from?
It comes from the fact I know there are things that can and cannot be answered. I know this seems paradoxical but I honestly don't mind that some things cannot be answered. And yet I do not fear death. One thing I did forget to mention in terms of Deism is that one of the main tenants dictates that humanity is generally moral. Aside from that, my security comes from the fact that I know I won't be judged, and am only one in many. Hummm a bit hard to explain I suppose, sorry about that.

explain to me why do you think your belief is the most consistent/logical/plausible

Occam's Razor to put it simply. As an example if a clueless man was presented with the Bible's two creation stories, as well as strong evidence towards evolution, the choice with the most evidence might be more likely chosen. As well, it was only mortal men (that I believe) who wrote the Bible. It might say that it has God's words in it and such, but I'd much rather have my own revelation of God to know the truth.

I think when I initially had these beliefs, I did not know that Deism existed, and now it sort of caters to it. It is quite subjective, but I don't feel any more wrong in believing it, seeing as there are quite a few religions about.

As for the difficult in offense comment, I think I did not clarify it well enough. It's not that I am not open to world views, but rather, that if someone were to offend me by any means, that I wouldn't be offended. And while my views may have started off as desirable, I'd say they have moved to most sensible. Thus independent of offense, as I cannot be easily suaded.

As for the rejecting of scriptures, I don't mean it in a rude or ignorant way. Instead I'd have more of the belief that people should write their own scripture (so to speak), just for themselves. I mean they physcially don't have to, but that to at least gain their findings on their own instead. Pretty much like a religious journey. THen with knowledge perhaps a scripture can be accepted, and so forth.

It's a bit of the reason why I don't like seeing children at a very young age being involved in religious activities. Now I can understand that their parent would want it to happen, but I like the idea of a parent who lets their child have free will and allows them to believe what they want to. Even if it comes into conflict. The whole love thing however, would remain the same.

And since we're more talking than debating, I think, I enjoy it much more as there is no insincerity to our intentions of merely coming to a pass, and understanding each other's beliefs.

Yep I understand that a philosophical discussion (even on religion) is still vastly interesting. I like to hear other people's believes, even if the reasoning isn't fully explained, as I endeavour to not be ignorant. XD Thus, I know you are not trying to convert, but rather explicate. Though my own beliefs have been fine-tuned so my beliefs are diamond solid (seeing as rock can be chipped XD). It's not to say I'm ignorant in and of itself, or stubborn, but rather I have just come to conclusions on religious matters that makes the most logical sense to me.

In terms of rejecting scriptures in a general sense (that you had mentioned), it's not done out of ignorance, I mean Deists can still appreciate portions of the bible or other relevant teachings in other scriptures, but rather it's done only by experience. Like I know that touching a rock means that it is hard, that sort of learning experience registers and stays with me. A 'learn as you go' so to speak. As though creating a new scripture for one's self (if that makes any sense). I believe this is what those who believe in Wicca do. Though they use an actual physical book, I was merely speaking empirically.

I suppose where our viewpoints converge most is that I do not believe in the "justice" portion of God. And with that premise, I do not see a purpose in hell, thus I don't believe it to be an emotional response (however I cannot necessarily delve into my subconscious, haha).

Of the issue about God and hell, I can't exactly remember what the Bible comments on that. Like if Satan created it or what have you. I'm sure there are plenty of debates over that too, such as how hell was created, who created it, why does god allow it, etc. Some of those questions can of course be more easily answered than others. It's not really important to me however.

Another idea I have encountered is when a person goes to the afterlife, I have the belief that a sort of revelation is made. That revelation in a sense answers all questions. Like if a murderer were to die and receive this sort of revelation, he might see what his murder has done. My thoughts this are more muddled mind you, but it is in absence of personality, and emotion that this is realised. Like the lack of an individual. That's why I mention the source. That it is like everything and nothing. I kind of picture it as a big ball of light (not the sun mind you) where everything (physical and non physical) comes and goes. That being said, the only thing I am really unsure of then is reincarnation (imagine that. XD). I realise the Abrahamic religions probably don't believe in that, but even myself, it's hard to understand individuality and what it exactly means. Of course I realise then that there are some things that is beyond human understanding (just trying understanding the theory of relativity or 4 dimensions, is crazy enough), but like I said before, I am not discomfitted by this fact, as per my belief that God is love, and we are mortal for the experience so to speak. (Sounds like I just came full circle, hopefully what I have said makes sense).

I hope I covered everything. I wish I could have more linear thoughts at times, but it is not always the case. And just to say, it is extremely difficult to offend me, so you don't have to be concerned if you're being confrontational or not. As sometimes a person might try to get a point across, only to have it misunderstood or something. I am maybe too open minded for my own good, haha.

You can make your response as long as possible. :P If you had questions about Deism that's fine too. :)

I think the thing I did forget to mention, which you briefly did, was that despite things being fated, and going to hell, humans don't know that their history was predetermined (per se), as you mention in you reverse history example. It might be foolish to say this, but I'd still think it unfair, even if I wasn't sure my life was fated. So a foolish flaw, I suppose. XD

I suppose my objection of hell was mostly from the other comment of mine anyway (that Satan turned from God etc). As even though I believe God to be more of a watcher, I too believe God is love incarnate. A person who commits murder would still find themselves in the same place where everyone else is (again not the Asphodal type example but the one about the "source" I mention), and receives the same sort of "revelation" of understanding.

I suppose, to put it simply, I don't believe life to be a test, but rather an experience. I do not fear death, I think it is silly to fear something that is inevitable. I would go as far to say that death is as beautiful as life, however perhaps some theists and atheists would disagree with me (albeit it is probably rare for a non-Theistic person to say that).

Also one of the main tenants of Deism is to refute any religious scripture, because it does not hold the truth per se in terms of a belief in a God. I suppose a lot of people had the Abrahamic religion as their own religion before changing over to Deism, so perhaps the monotheistic God they think of may be the same in both situations.

Apparently though, Thomas Paine is an excellent read for those who are interested in Deism, I haven't read his works yet though. Not that I really need to. XD

Yeah, I'd agree that it is both nature and nurture, as I make a simple comparison to heterosexualness too. It seems when people make the ideology of "being gay" they sometimes can forget the sameness of heterosexuality too. It's like putting a gay man in a world with only women or a straight man in a world of gay women sort of thing.

Hmmm I think those were the only points I wanted to bring up. XD

I'm off to work soon, so take your time. :P

On a side note, I very much like the idea of a non-revealed religion (which may seem odd), it's that sense of mystery that seemingly can only be discovered through science. While of course it might be impossible to find succinct evidence of God (aside from nature itself), it is still fascinating the discoveries that are made to this day. The only two non-revealed religions I can think of is Deism and Buddhism.

EDIT: One thing I do appreciate most about Islam though is that is hardly has gone through any translations. Compared to the Bible, I can appreciate that it may contain more "truth" (if I were so bold so say).

ESPN.. oh! Ever wonder I wasn't able to find it anywhere. XD

Opening ceremony!?!! Where? where? Where?
*turns on the TV*

Hmm seemingly like a proposition, interesting. XD

Well to begin, I wouldn't say that Deism was a faith or religion, or dogma, but rather a belief. I will explain why there is no real adherence too. (I'd also like to point out that it has been a while since I have read the Bible, so I hope I don't misconstrue anything).

I'd say it could have started at around the age of 16, I went to a catholic school, but my family and I were never practicing Christians. I had already read the bible (of my own accord). What really set off the questions though were the inconsistencies with various passages in the bible. Plus after reading various books in philosophy, I questioned fate and hell. That is to say, if fate existed, then hell would only serve as a tool for something God had purposely created, which would seem odd. Not only this but the fact that it says in the Bible that Satan turned his back from God (not literally of course but more figuratively). I think this is extremely impossible... No matter how evil a person is, I believe God will always be there. And if it was meant in the context that Satan disregarded God's teachings or what have you, then I'll explain that later with another subset of my beliefs. XD

Yeah, to put it bluntly, I enjoy the company of the same sex. The bible says this is bad (though to be fair this was not the reason why I no longer believed in Catholicism. Deism took hold of me a year earlier I believe). That being said there was that reason, but also the erroneous statements, as I believe I recall, within the same book, wherein it says that a man should not lay with a man, it also says that wear two kinds of fabric is also a sin. This picking and choosing of scriptures by people today seems to me to be out of convenience and personal vendettas. Again these two reasons was not my main reason to convert. It was more the paradox of the hell/fate thing mentioned earlier.

I realise it would be simple enough for someone to believe in on or the other, but then it got me thinking. I do sort of believe in a kind of Heaven, yet I would call it more like a "source". (I'd also like to mention that all Deists have differentiating beliefs, but they do have all of the same main tennants). I don't like thinking too much of it though, because I am unsure on exactly what happens, but it would perhaps be something similar to the phenomenon seen in the Golden Compass trilogy after the main characters freed the spirits from the Ashphodal-like fields. That is to say people returned to the Earth by way of a sort of energy.

Many people would think that Deists are insecure (because they don't really care about the need for salvation), but this is untrue. A Deist is comfitted by logic. It's almost similar to an Atheist actually. I know one day that I will die, and that some form of God or creator or something in that regard that I cannot explain now will take place. Because I believe everyone is energy (so to speak), it essentially implies that hell is truly unneeded.

That being said, the kind of God I see existing is one that sits back and watches his/her creations. This explains the scientific/logical aspect of a Deist's mind.

I don't believe someone can be born with a faith. Only a parent or other can teach the person, and while a child is not the best to teach a religion too (loss of interest perhaps, etc), it can at least open doors to openess of religions.

Anywho, I hope that all made sense. I tend to ramble on, but I won't really edit the above as it probably is all pertinent.

On a side note though, I remember having a sort of discussion with another member a while ago who I think was a Fundamentalist Christian who had gone to the Iraqi war. It wasn't argumentative, but I did ask a lot of questions, because I was more astounded by his beliefs. I realise it is 'to each their own', but he explained that his actions were justified because he (as a believer in Christ and God) was doing God's job of eradicating terrorists. Not only that but he had mentioned that those who did not believe in his religion would be going to hell. Then I brought up the innocent people, such as children not aware completely what his religion meant, and an isolated tribe who has not had contact with the world. He had said that they would all be going to hell. This was quite disconcerting.

Ramble complete. :3

Haha thanks. Yeah I saw your post in the religious thread. I know a bunch of Muslims from Indonesia and they all had various differences in their own devotion.

You could say I've also had my own religious journey. Starting out as a catholic and now I've migrated to something that suits my beliefs. It wasn't really that I had a negative experience but that it just sort of donned on me that my beliefs that I have now, would make a lot of sense, even if they weren't the prettiest, so to speak.

I agree. I can sense that our convo might become a battlefield instead!