Issue: Cloned Pokémon Ban

Crwatkins50 · Oct 5, 2018

I feel like cloned Pokémon are considered hacked because the only means of getting them is having to go online and do it, you couldn't clone Pokémon in gen 1, so you shouldn't be able to now. It isn't included in the game so...

Janp · Oct 5, 2018

Ignoring everything except for the statement

you couldn't clone Pokémon in gen 1, so you shouldn't be able to now

I'll just leave this bit from Bulbapedia's Cloning Glitches page for education purposes only:

Spoiler:

There are two different methods for cloning Pokémon in the games from Generations I and II, one involving a Pokémon trade, and the other the use of the Storage System. Even though both are possible in all of the handheld games of these two generations, the trading method is mostly associated with Generation I, and the storage system method with Generation II.

Trading method
The cloning glitch most popular in Generation I involves the interruption of the trading process. As Game Link Cables for the Game Boy are unable to send and receive data simultaneously, one game cartridge first sends its traded Pokémon's data while the other receives it, and then vice versa for the second traded Pokémon. Interrupting the trade after one Pokémon was sent and the other wasn't causes the first Pokémon to be present on both games and the second one not present on either, essentially making two of the same Pokémon while making the other disappear. The interruption can be either accidental—because of dirty connectors or damaged Game Link Cables—or on purpose—by disconnecting the Game Link Cable or turning the Game Boy off.

In the Generation I games, this glitch is potentially very hazardous to the save file, because in the period of time between sending and receiving a Pokémon (or vice versa) the game saves the player's party. If the glitch is performed wrong and the game has not finished saving, the saved data will be corrupted. In Generation II this process was changed, and thus this method is not hazardous for the save file.

Box change method
Another cloning method present in the early Pokémon games involved the exploit of the Pokémon Storage System and the fact that the game needed to save every time a Box was changed. During the saving that takes place when switching the Box, first the Pokémon data on all the PC Boxes is saved, and then the Pokémon data on the player's party. If some Pokémon are deposited in the PC before switching the Box, interrupting the saving process (turning the power off) at the right moment (ideally, before the "S" in the dialog Box appears but after the Box has appeared) causes said Pokémon to be present both in the Box and the player's party. This method, unlike the trade method, allows the player to clone up to five Pokémon at the same time, as well as in Generation II, clone items by making the cloned Pokémon hold items before cloning it.

If the glitch is used with a game attached to Pokémon Stadium 2, there is a chance of getting strange glitch Pokémon. If the player withdraws a Pokémon and continues the cloning glitch, if the game is turned off at the right time, the cloned Pokémon will vanish and be replaced by a Pokémon with the same name, attack, and level as the Pokémon removed. Its sprite will be identical to the cloned Pokémon, but if sent into battle, it will appear as the withdrawn Pokémon. Its species name will be the same as the cloned Pokémon's and it will be able to learn all the TMs/HMs as the cloned Pokémon. However, it will evolve as the withdrawn Pokémon does.

This glitch may be used at the beginning of a game to obtain all three starter Pokémon.

If this glitch is done on the Virtual Console, and then the player uses Poké Transporter, the game will transfer Pokémon from the box the player swapped to, but the Pokémon will remain in the Virtual Console, essentially cloning them again. However, this will glitch Box 1 and make it unusable. Depositing Pokémon inside will disappear, and PokéTransporter will detect the box as empty. Moving a Pokémon into Box 1 will change its nickname to its OT (but without the first character), and delete the OT.

Amy May · Oct 5, 2018

I know I have no business posting here so please forgive me before doing any bashing!!!

I understand what you're saying... but in the case of a thread or shop, the person doing it would more than likely state flat out what is being offered is cloned, so the info is already out in the open... you want nothing to do with clones, so you simply go to a different thread.

Believe me, I understand what you're getting at, I feel cloning in general is becoming a bit out of hand too, to such a point now.. if you didn't obtain it yourself, you have no clue if it was actually cloned.

But in the case of R/S/E, you can legitally clone Pokemon in the game itself via battle resort glitch cloning... never touching a cheating device.

ddrox13 · Oct 5, 2018

Crwatkins50 said:
I feel like cloned Pokémon are considered hacked because the only means of getting them is having to go online and do it, you couldn't clone Pokémon in gen 1, so you shouldn't be able to now. It isn't included in the game so...

Welp, I was GOING to PM this to you, but I suppose this will suffice for now.

Cloned Pokemon are not considered hacked by the PokeCommunity. This is where the politically correct side of me would say we would review this rule in response to your request, but we actually just did that last week and decided to leave it unchanged. So instead, I'll try and explain it :).

When a legally obtained Pokemon is cloned, all data regarding said Pokemon remains in tact, from the name, to the OT, even the PID. Therefore, we figure, the clone is also legal, as it contains the exact same data.

As for why we allow trading them, there are a number of reasons. Chief among them, in my opinion, is diversifying what can be traded on our forums. When someone goes through the effort to obtain a rare Pokémon, they probably wouldn't want to trade it. If you had two of it, you may be more willing to do so. If two players each have a rare pokemon, each clones theirs, and trades the other person the copy, now both people have both rare Pokémon. In this way, they are both happy.

Additionally, cloning is a service every PokéCommunity user has equal access to. Or at least will when we actually get cloners, which to be fair we didn't have all summer. So it doesn't give anyone a specific advantage over anyone else.

In response to your points above:
First of all, "It didn't work in gen 1" is an unproductive reasoning for anything. If that logic were used by Game Freak we wouldn't have Abilities, held items, the Dark-type, Absol, etc. We wouldn't have Absol. :(
Additionally, there was actually a cloning glitch in gen 1 native to the game. You actually didn't even have to go online to clone then (partially because you couldn't, it was gen 1). In fact, there was a way to clone in-game at some point in every generation except 5 and 7. So to be true to the games history, we should allow cloning of everything but gen 7 Pokemon. However, that seems really dumb. Source

In your case, the Manaphy offered was both hacked AND cloned. We don't care about the clonededness (words are hard), but because of the OT of AusLove.TV, it is untradeable here, as it is a known hack. Because you had already been warned, you likely would have been infracted if not for some technical difficulties, me having class, and Firebolt needing to sleep. If this occurs again, you can expect a heavy infraction or ban of some sort.

Anyway, while I totally understand your viewpoint here, after discussion the moderators of the Trade Corner all have the viewpoints that suggest that clones are fine to trade, and thus they will continue to be allowed here. Thanks for your feedback though! If you have any further questions feel free to quote this message in a response here so that it notifies me or shoot a PM to either myself or one of the other Trade Corner mods.

~ Spirit Shackle

Issue: Cloned Pokémon Ban

More options

Crwatkins50

Janp

Amy May

Banned

ddrox13

Anti-Nonsense