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How to rate teams and specific team styles

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Dark Azelf

Dark Azelf

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How to Rate Teams and Specific Team Styles

It has come to my attention that some people are either rating a rate or just suggesting dumb stuff, this is a quick in-depth guide on how to rate teams and make your rate the most helpful it can be.


What is the Purpose of Doing a Rate?

The purpose of doing a rate is to actually help them get better results and improve on what they have. Finding threats and weaknesses, then fixing it by possibly replacing certain team members as well as out of place EVs and moves is what your aim is. If you state that you want to switch Pokémon/EV/Move "x" for Pokémon/EV/Move "y", then explain what the positive and negative aspects of that change will entail. Does putting in "x" instead of "y" open up any new holes that need to be covered? Sometimes it cannot be avoided, but you should avoid changing four and above Pokémon on the person's team as that is like building the team again which this board is not for. Likewise comments such as "Nice team dood 2/10" and "UR TEEM SUX MAN GTFO" will be swiftly purged and do not help in the slightest to anyone, especially the team builder. There are exceptions if the team is weak to everything and an utter mess, in which case you may tell the original poster in a nice manner with something along the lines of "This concept will not work, it has too many weaknesses and there is nowhere to really go from here. Honestly it would be better to scrap the team and start over". Though its very important to explain why it doesn't work so the OP doesn't make the same mistake again and point them in the right direction in regards to synergy etc. Something like this is a good way of going about things, as you can see he has helped the OP too aswell as showing him the downside as to why his team wont work.


Finding + Explaining Threats and Giving Solutions

The first thing you usually look for when rating teams is threats. It's good listing weaknesses, but if you don't elaborate on why and how the OP can solve this your post is next to useless. Finding threats is the key to helping the OP, so you shouldn't say just say things like "lol you lose to Tyranitar"; a better way to word this for example would be "If Tyranitar comes in and sets up a Dragon Dance you're 6-0'd since you have no check to it at all". Basically, why is <threat> a problem? What can <threat> do that the OP cannot handle? Explain yourself fully. Next, you should give solutions on how to deal with the aforementioned threat. A good way to handle this would be "I suggest 'x' to counter/check 'y' threat over <current Pokémon>". Then, explain how this will benefit their team more than their current set up. Reviewing your changes is also a great way to assess them. Does this open up new holes? How can you solve the new hole that has appeared? Lastly, think of synergy, does the team work together? Does it do what it's intended to do? Can it sweep or stall? Which Pokémon open up sweeps when used together? Does it have a solid core? Details like this are extremely important when making suggestions, so don't suggest something that breaks the current synergy! Finally, it's very helpful to list your changes in a shorter version at the end of your post so the OP doesn't have to sift through a huge post. Here is an example of what i mean.


Specific Playstyles

This is one of the more in-depth points about rating and it's really annoying as it's constantly done. Basically, things like if someone has an Heavy Offensive team, suggesting a Porygon2 or a wall will not help; please think of the strategy and what the OP's aim is with the team. Porygon2 will not help for obvious reasons on Heavy Offense, HO's aim is to keep momentum. A wall or Porygon2 are often offensively inept and can grant the foe free set up opportunities for stall and foe offense; often more than a frail offensive team can respond to and breaks the momentum. Simarily, suggesting an Infernape on a stall team would be just as useless since the team's aim is to stall, not sweep (obviously there are exceptions and this is subjective based on the team, especially more balanced playstyles, but keep what the team's goal is in mind before doing things like this. Basically, look at the team style before jumping to conclusions and making generalizations in your rate). Again, it's important to ask yourself questions like "does the team work together"? Does it do what it's intended to? Can it sweep or stall? Which Pokémon open up sweeps when used together? Does it have a solid core offensively and/or defensively"?


Resources to Help Rating

● Anti's threat list - Fantastic tool for helping spot specific weaknesses and counters
● Smogon - More in depth than Anti's guide and has other tier Pokémon
● Marrilands Team Builder - A cool tool to identify specific type weaknesses, and can sometimes help pinpoint threats
 
Last edited:
wolf

wolf

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Dark Azelf said:
It has come to my attention that some people are either rating a rate or just suggesting dumb stuff, this is a quick in-depth guide on how to rate teams and make your rate the most helpful it can be.

What is the purpose of doing a rate?
The purpose of doing a rate is to actually help them get better results and improve on what they have. Finding threats and weaknesses, then fixing it by possibly replacing certain team members as well as out of place EVs and moves is what your aim is. If you state that you want to switch Pokémon/EV/Move "x" for Pokémon/EV/Move "y", then explain what the positive and negative aspects of that change will entail. Does putting in "x" instead of "y" open up any new holes that need to be covered? Sometimes it cannot be avoided, but you should avoid changing four and above Pokémon on the person's team as that is like building the team again which this board is not for. Likewise comments such as "Nice team dood 2/10" and "UR TEEM SUX MAN GTFO" will be swiftly purged and do not help in the slightest to anyone, especially the team builder. There are exceptions if the team is weak to everything and an utter mess, in which case you may tell the original poster in a nice manner with something along the lines of "This concept will not work, it has too many weaknesses and there is nowhere to really go from here. Honestly it would be better to scrap the team and start over".

Finding + Explaining threats and giving solutions
The first thing you usually look for when rating teams is threats. It's [removed "all well," didn't fit imo] good listing weaknesses, but if you don't elaborate on why and how the OP can solve this your post is next to useless. Finding threats is the key to helping the OP, so you shouldn't say things like "lol you lose to Tyranitar"; a better way to word this for example would be "If Tyranitar comes in and sets up a Dragon Dance you're 6-0'd since you have no check to it at all". Basically, why is <threat> a problem? What can <threat> do that the OP cannot handle? Explain yourself fully. Next, you should give solutions on how to deal with the aforementioned threat. A good way to handle this would be "I suggest 'x' to counter/check 'y' threat over <current Pokémon>". Then, explain how this will benefit their team more than their current set up. Reviewing your changes is also a great way to assess them. Does this open up new holes? How can you solve the new hole that has appeared? Lastly, think of synergy, does the team work together? Does it do what it's intended to do? Can it sweep or stall? Which Pokémon open up holes when used together? Does it have a solid core? Details like this are extremely important when making suggestions, so don't suggest something that breaks the current synergy! Finally, it's very helpful to list your changes in a shorter version at the end of your post so the OP doesn't have to sift through a huge post.

Specific playstyles
This is one of the more in-depth points about rating and it's really annoying as it's constantly done. Basically, things like if someone has an Heavy Offensive team, suggesting a Porygon2 or a wall will not help; please think of the strategy and what the OP's aim is with the team. Porygon2 will not help for obvious reasons on Heavy Offense, HO's aim is to keep momentum. A wall or Porygon2 are often offensively inept and can grant the foe free set up opportunities for stall and foe offense; often more than a frail offensive team can respond to and breaks the momentum. Simarily, suggesting an Infernape on a stall team will not help in the slightest as the team's aim is to stall, not sweep (obviously there are exceptions and this is subjective based on the team, especially more balanced playstyles, but keep what the team's goal is in mind before doing things like this). Again, it's important to ask yourself questions like "does the team work together"? Does it do what it's intended to? Can it sweep or stall? Which Pokémon open up holes when used together? Does it have a solid core offensively and/or defensively?"

Resources to help rating

Anti's threat list - Fantastic tool for helping spot specific weaknesses and counters
Smogon - More in depth than Anti's guide and has other tier Pokémon
Marrilands Team Builder - A cool tool to identify specific type weaknesses, and can sometimes help pinpoint threats
Click to expand...
I'll post the "copyable" version later, gtg.

Edit:
Spoiler:


OR

Spoiler:



Also, a sample team and rate could be useful if you have time to do it.
 
Last edited:

Aurafire

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Instead of smushing the examples into the paragraphs, you could put them in quotes to make it more understandable and organized, like so:

bad user said:
lol you lose to Tyranitar
Click to expand...

good user said:
If Tyranitar comes in and sets up a Dragon Dance you're 6-0'd since you have no check to it at all
Click to expand...

Then you can elaborate a more on unhelpful tones/useless comments, ect. Just an idea, otherwise it's fine.
 

.Gamer

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It has come to my attention that some people are either rating a rate (???) or just suggesting dumb stuff, this is a quick in-depth guide on how to rate teams and make your rate the most helpful it can be.

What is the purpose of doing a rate?
The purpose of doing a rate is to actually help them get better results and improve on what they have. Finding threats and weaknesses and possibly replacing certain team members, out of place EVs and moves is what your aim is. If you state that you want to switch Pokemon/EV/Move "x" for Pokemon/EV/Move "y", then explain what the positive and negative aspects of that change will entail and does putting in "x" > "y" open up any new holes that need to be covered? Sometimes it cannot be avoided but if you can avoid changing 4 and above members on the persons team you should do so as that is borderline "build me a team" which is not this boards purpose. (akward wording) Likewise comments such as "Nice team dood 2/10" and "UR TEEM SUX MAN GTFO" will be swiftly purged and do not help in the slightest to anyone, especially the team builder. There are exceptions if the team is weak to everything and an utter mess, in which case you may tell the op in a nice manner something along the lines of "This concept will not work, it has way too many weaknesses and there is nowhere to really go from here. Honestly it would be better to scrap the team and start over".

Finding + Explaining threats and giving solutions.
The first thing you usually look for when rating teams is threats. Its all well and good listing weaknesses but if you don't elaborate on why and how the OP can solve this your post is next to useless. Finding threats is key to helping the OP so you shouldn't say things like "lol you lose to Tyranitar" a better way to word something like this for example would be "If Tyranitar comes in and gets a Dragon Dance you're 6-0'd as you have no check to it at all". Basically, why is <threat> a problem? What can <threat> do that the OP cannot handle? Explain yourself fully. Next, you should give solutions on how to deal with the aforementioned threat a good way to handle this would be for example "I suggest "x" to counter/check "y" threat over <current Pokemon>". Then explain how this will benefit their team more than their current set up. Reviewing your changes is also a great way to assess your changes, does this open up new holes? How can you solve the new hole that has appeared? Lastly also think of synergy, does the team work together? Does it do what its intended to do? Can it sweep or stall? Which Pokemon open up holes when used together? Does it have a solid core? Things like this are extremely important when making suggestions too, dont suggest something that breaks the current synergy! Lastly its very helpful to list your changes in a shorter version at the end of your post to help the OP not have to sift through a huge post, if you make one. (Also an alternate option to a tl;dr list is bolding important changes in the rate, although I think its ugly, its just as effective).

About specific playstyles.
This is one of the more in depth thing about rating and its really annoying as its constantly done. Basically things like if someone has a Heavy Offensive team, suggesting a Porygon2 or a wall will not help, please think of the strategy and what the OP's aim is with the team. Porygon2 will not help for obvious reasons on Heavy Offense, Heavy Offense aim is to keep momentum, a wall or Porygon2 are often offensively innept and grant the foe free set up opportunities for stall AND for offensive, often more than a frail offensive team can respond to and breaks momentum. Likewise suggesting an Infernape on a stall team would be just as useless since the teams aim is to stall, not sweep. (Obviously their are exceptions and this is subjective based on the team, especially more balanced playstyles, but keep what the teams goal is in mind before doing things like this). Again, because its important ask yourself questions like "does the team work together? Does it do what its intended to do? Can it sweep or stall? Which Pokemon open up holes when used together? Does it have a solid core offensively and/or defensively?"

---

a couple of things I think should be added in: It is always a good idea for the rater to clarify they understand the playstyle trying to be acheived by the OP. This can be done in a simple "It appears like this is a Spike Stacking Offense team" or "To me it appears you are trying to pull off a team using Heavy Offense" or anything along those lines. While it is always nice (hint hint) for the OP to clarify what type of team they are using, we know full well 99% of the RMTs on here are mostly 6 mons + 2 lines (if that) of explanation for each mon.

Don't don't don't don't DON'T say "your team needs more special sweepers, you have too many physical sweepers" or vice versa. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. Its a completely foolish thing to say. Having sweepers from one end of the sweeping spectrum is NOT always a bad thing or affect your team negatively.

When listing a pokemon for a suggestion, please use:

Pkmn @ Item
EVs
Nature
Ability (if needed)
-move1
-move2
-move3
-move4

or

Pokemon @ Item | EVs | Nature | Ability (if needed)
move1 | move2 | move3 | move 4

followed or preceeded by a short explanation of why it should be used and what it does.

Honestly the most annoying rates to look at are ones that have a pokemon listed like this:

heatran with shuca berry 4 hp 252 speed 252 special attack modest fire blast, earth power, hidden power grass, explosion

Its unorganized and ugly. Its a lot easier for the OP to pick up what you are saying when its organized.


ONE LAST AMAZING POINT:

D_A, you don't have to put a space before you put a question mark at the end of sentence.



edit: (so another amazing point)

This thread isn't meant to discourage you young raters who may have been told to work on your rating ability. All of us started out like that but we learned how to do it better, so don't get discouraged. With a little bit of practice and patience you can become a great rater. It was only in December of 2009 I suggested someone (D_A?) had a Kyogre weakness in his OU team. I had to be told more bluntly to stop rating. (there was a thread telling me to stop rating) I decided to spend some time taking note of how to rate and got better. [/modesty] So don't get discouraged. :)
 
Anti

Anti

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Aurafire said:
Instead of smushing the examples into the paragraphs, you could put them in quotes to make it more understandable and organized, like so:

[quotes]

Then you can elaborate a more on unhelpful tones/useless comments, ect. Just an idea, otherwise it's fine.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm missing the point of the quotes but neither of those seemed particularly helpful to me since neither suggestion a solution and the first implies that you don't have a counter or check anyway, though they might have just been thrown together to suggest the format (I couldn't really tell :(). Nevertheless, that's probably the better way to organize it.

.Gamer said:
Don't don't don't don't DON'T say "your team needs more special sweepers, you have too many physical sweepers" or vice versa. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. Its a completely foolish thing to say. Having sweepers from one end of the sweeping spectrum is NOT always a bad thing or affect your team negatively.

When listing a pokemon for a suggestion, please use:

Pkmn @ Item
EVs
Nature
Ability (if needed)
-move1
-move2
-move3
-move4

or

Pokemon @ Item | EVs | Nature | Ability (if needed)
move1 | move2 | move3 | move 4

followed or preceeded by a short explanation of why it should be used and what it does.
Click to expand...

About the format, the second one is honestly just as bad as the "this is the annoying version" that you posted. The moves in list form is just a million times easier to rate from. I don't think we should be encouraging the horizontal format at all, quite the oppotsite.

Also, outside of HO, having a poor balanced of physical and special sweepers is bad a lot of the time. You even said it yourself...it's not ALWAYS a bad thing...but more often than not it is lol. A less confusing message would be something like "look at the team style before jumping to conclusions and making generalizations in your rate," but isn't that basically what this whole thing says anyway? lol.

Also,

ginger man said:
"This concept will not work, it has too many weaknesses and there is nowhere to really go from here. Honestly it would be better to scrap the team and start over."
Click to expand...

I know the forum isn't "build me a team" but "rate my team," however I usually think it's better to at least get people off to a good start after saying something like that. If they make a terrible team with no synergy, what exactly should lead us to believe that they won't do it again? For a lot of people, explaining why the previous team didn't work is enough to go off of, but for newer users, it really isn't since they typically don't have a grasp of what makes a competitive team really work. "Synergy" is a foreign concept, so we have to do more than just say that synergy does not exist. We have to show them how to make it exist.

On that same note, I don't think it would hurt to put an example of changing a team with good synergy and ruining the synergy with a bad replacement (for example, replacing the heatran of a celetran/water combo with magmortar [4 improved attacking] or something to that effect).
 

Aurafire

provider of cake
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Anti said:
Maybe I'm missing the point of the quotes but neither of those seemed particularly helpful to me since neither suggestion a solution and the first implies that you don't have a counter or check anyway, though they might have just been thrown together to suggest the format (I couldn't really tell :(). Nevertheless, that's probably the better way to organize it.
Click to expand...

Those were the quotes that elf already had in his paragraphs, I was just using them as examples ;x

That said, I'd be happy to write up more lengthy examples of a good and bad rate.
 
Dark Azelf

Dark Azelf

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Ok adding this to guides, any critique please PM an s+m mod.
 
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