New Type: Light

Since most people agree that Light makes perfect sense for a new pokemon/move type in upcoming pokemon games, I've decided to make a separate topic in which different ideas about it can be discussed.

First, here's some type mapping I've come up with from reading other suggestions and thinking about it myself.

Defensively strong against: Light, Dark, Ghost, Psychic, Electric*
Defensively immune to: Fire (can't be burned)
Defensively weak against: Grass, Ice, Dragon

Offensively strong against: Dark, Ghost, Fighting
Offensively weak against: Light, Dragon, Ice, Electric*
Offensively ineffective against: Grass

*It's hard to explain Electric. When I try to think about it logically, Electric shouldn't be good against Light, but at the same time light shouldn't be strong against Electric. It wouldn't be all that strange...they have weirder things already with type-mapping, such as Ghost and Dragon both being strong against themselves.

As for other things that might not make apparent sense, it would be strong against Fighting because Dark is weak to it, so since Light is the opposite of Dark, it should be strong against it. I'm not sure it's the best logic though, because I didn't use it for other types such as Steel. But that's why this topic is open for discussion!

Grass should be obvious. Light is the source of plants' food. Grass would do nothing but feed from Light. Then they could work with it where certain Grass pokemon could not only be immune to Light, but take advantage of it in ways. I'm not sure if it should just heal them, since other types don't do that unless they have an ability like Water Absorb or Voltage Absorb, or whatever.


Now, past type mappings, there's a few other things. First of all, the most obvious move already in Pokemon that would become a Light attack would be Flash. But what about other attacks? Solarbeam? Flash Cannon? They may even have to tweak Sunny Day. I look forward to seeing some opinions on this.

Lastly, there should be a new status that is in virtually every other game of this style, and that Pokemon has neglected for quite awhile, which would perfectly for Light-type attacks. That is "Blind". Blind status would lower Accuracy and I suppose one of either Attack or Special Attack. Likewise, certain attacks would not work while under the Blind status, such as Future Sight, Lock-On, Detect, etc. Furthermore, and I'm not sure about this one (give me opinions here) it may even go so far as to make never-miss moves such as Swift able to miss (though they'd still have a really high accuracy rate). As for curing it, there would of course be blind heals as well as some type of berry that can heal it. Also there would be some kind of glasses/goggles hold item that would prevent Blind from occuring on whichever pokemon is holding it. The status would only last from 3-7 turns or so, not for the whole battle, and would not carry over outside of a battle.



Anyway, that's all I've got so far, feel free to add suggestions/opinions!

Light type will never be made, nor will any new type. The metagame is extremely well balanced and does not need a new type complicating things. Dark and steel were only brought in to weaken psychic type, which dominated 1st generation.

It's not saying there will be, it's saying what if? Anyway I think they should make some new moves. Light sword (random move just made up) would be cool cause it could have high critical hit ratio and strike the foe three times as much damage with sunny day.
Solarbeam might be changed into light because it is light, Solarbeam.

Eh, as great as this thread is and all, there was really only one thread that was needed to explain the Light-Type, and that was made months ago. The type, Light, will never exist. Why? I know it seems like perfect sense because Dark-Type exists, but Dark-Type and Steel-Type were only made to weaken down the Psychic-Type in the second generation games as that was the type that absolutely dominated Red, Blue and Yellow.

About it never existing and the metagame and all that...

Wrong. You have to realize that the majority of pokemon players (meaning the majority of people giving Nintendo/GF money for their product) are people who don't even know what metagame means and couldn't care less about it. Nintendo and the like doesn't care about competitive battling, because that's all things that players have created. Adding light to change things is going to screw with the metagame, but only until players find a way to incorporate it and all of a sudden that's all a thing of the past.

The reasoning used against it being added is idiotic. Dark and Steel were added because they needed new content. Yes, they counteracted Psychic's dominance which probably was part of their reasoning, but look at when they added it. Competitive battling as it is today didn't exist. The only way of battling back then was with a friend and a link cable. So Nintendo didn't have "the metagame" in mind when they added the last two types, just like they NEVER have it in mind and will not refrain from adding new and exciting elements to their game just to protect its balance.

Though I'm usually on the opposition for the speculation towards a "Light-type," you've provided alot more ideas than most of the previous dreamers. Some of your ideas I like, some of them I don't.

How would Blind be incorporated into the game with moves like Sand-Attack or Flash, as those moves are completely based off of blinding the foe. They would probably have to change them to your proposed status effect. How would this function on foes that can't see anyways, like Zubat or Abra? How would this work against goes immune to Accuracy-lowering effects, like Wingull or Torkoal? Also about Blind: Detect and Future Sight use the power of the mind, rather than physical sight, so those attacks shouldn't be affected. How would Blind make the Pokemon react to incoming Light-type attacks?

Morningsun and Synthesis = Light type? You would need to change alot of moves to accomodate such a broad typing.

Your reasoning that Light should trump Fighting would also imply that it would be effective against Bugs - Um. I guess Bugs don't appear as often during the daytime. Maybe.

Why is Ice good against Light? It seems that Ice would make Light more powerful by refracting and magnifying it. How would Light-type react to Mirror-type moves? Would they be reflected or dampened, and how can you tell?

I would think Dark-type to be good against Light-type, but also be weak to it. After all, with more light, there's just more darkness. What do you think?

All in all, shining light on enemies doesn't seem to really harm them, unless in the eyes, or if the light is really, really hot. It seems that most of the moves would be Support or Healing moves anyways.

C'mon, people... as Oni and Gerri previously stated, there will never be a light type! Let's forget about metagame for a second, shall we? Nintendo still has to incorporate the Light type's moves, effects, etc into the game. Not to mention, they'd probably have to change a few Pokemon, too. Such as Solrock; would that mass of oddly shaped rock not categorize into the Light type?

You seem to think that because Nintendo might not care about the metagame, it means they should undoubtedly add the Light Type. Did you not take into consideration all the changes that would have to be made? More type match-up memorization for veteran players, more items, possibly even more gyms! I think 4 generations is too far in to change the rules, suddenly.

Gymnotide said:

Though I'm usually on the opposition for the speculation towards a "Light-type," you've provided alot more ideas than most of the previous dreamers. Some of your ideas I like, some of them I don't.

How would Blind be incorporated into the game with moves like Sand-Attack or Flash, as those moves are completely based off of blinding the foe. They would probably have to change them to your proposed status effect. How would this function on foes that can't see anyways, like Zubat or Abra? How would this work against goes immune to Accuracy-lowering effects, like Wingull or Torkoal? Also about Blind: Detect and Future Sight use the power of the mind, rather than physical sight, so those attacks shouldn't be affected. How would Blind make the Pokemon react to incoming Light-type attacks?

Morningsun and Synthesis = Light type? You would need to change alot of moves to accomodate such a broad typing.

Your reasoning that Light should trump Fighting would also imply that it would be effective against Bugs - Um. I guess Bugs don't appear as often during the daytime. Maybe.

Why is Ice good against Light? It seems that Ice would make Light more powerful by refracting and magnifying it. How would Light-type react to Mirror-type moves? Would they be reflected or dampened, and how can you tell?

I would think Dark-type to be good against Light-type, but also be weak to it. After all, with more light, there's just more darkness. What do you think?

All in all, shining light on enemies doesn't seem to really harm them, unless in the eyes, or if the light is really, really hot. It seems that most of the moves would be Support or Healing moves anyways.

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Some good points. I will respond to the ones I can.

As for your first main paragraph there regarding the Blind status, it would pretty much do what you would logically assume in all those situations. Moves like Sand Attack and Flash would be changed to add the Blind Status. Flash already has the effect of lowering Accuracy. Change it to "Induces Blind status", which would in turn lower Accuracy. As for Pokemon who can't see, they would be immune to the status, simple as that. Same with the others you mentioned. You're right about Detect and such, so I suppose that idea is out the window.

Changing moves' types is not a big deal. They did it with Bite, and it actually made things a little more illogical, because then Bite was no longer weak against Rock types, when logically it should be. I think change is a good thing, we shouldn't be opposed to it when IMO it will do nothing but improve the game by adding more possibilities for all kinds of added content.

Like I said, the reasoning for Fighting isn't the best. It's just a suggestion, nothing I believe is essential if Light were to be added.

As for Ice, I actually got that off another suggestion in the "One New Type" poll topic. I probably should have made it the other way since you're right, and Light would probably melt ice. And in regards to mirror-type moves, I think it would work the same as any other type. I think any differently might be looking into it TOO much. You can't always think of it in terms of literal mirror reflection, because what about Steel? What the heck could a mirror do to Steel?

About the Dark v. Light thing, I thought about that myself. It might makes sense that Dark could be strong against Light too, as if Dark is overtaking Light. But you have to remember, Dark is not a thing in and of itself. Darkness is simply the absence of Light. As long as the Light is there, Dark won't exist. What you said about more Light creating more Dark is only true if something stands in the way of the Light to create a shadow.

And finally, in response to your conclusion, it's not fair to think of things that way when it comes to Pokemon. If that type of reasoning were used for everything in Pokemon, just how effective would moves like Bubble/Bubblebeam, Razor Leaf, Water Gun, Lick, etc. be?

Motsuko Live said:

C'mon, people... as Oni and Gerri previously stated, there will never be a light type! Let's forget about metagame for a second, shall we? Nintendo still has to incorporate the Light type's moves, effects, etc into the game. Not to mention, they'd probably have to change a few Pokemon, too. Such as Solrock; would that mass of oddly shaped rock not categorize into the Light type?

You seem to think that because Nintendo might not care about the metagame, it means they should undoubtedly add the Light Type. Did you not take into consideration all the changes that would have to be made? More type match-up memorization for veteran players, more items, possibly even more gyms! I think 4 generations is too far in to change the rules, suddenly.

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So Nintendo just doesn't change? They never change? Change is a good thing. It's not hard to change a few moves/pokemon. They've done it before with Dark and Steel.

More memorization? That's a bad thing? You're using that to argue against adding content? Please, there are 493 pokemon in this game and 7-year olds can name them all in order.

More gyms?! THAT'S A GOOD THING!! That means they'll have way more stuff to add for a new game!

YOOM-TAH said:

Some good points. I will respond to the ones I can.

As for your first main paragraph there regarding the Blind status, it would pretty much do what you would logically assume in all those situations. Moves like Sand Attack and Flash would be changed to add the Blind Status. Flash already has the effect of lowering Accuracy. Change it to "Induces Blind status", which would in turn lower Accuracy. As for Pokemon who can't see, they would be immune to the status, simple as that. Same with the others you mentioned. You're right about Detect and such, so I suppose that idea is out the window.

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Your proposition would also make Accuracy-lowering moves have a completely different functionality - they would not be able to lower Accuracy more than once, and like your first post said, they would also lower a different stat. It would also mean that Blind would bestow immunity to Paralyze, Burn, Poison and Sleep. This could be a good and bad thing - good because it brings in a new modus operandi where a player could Blind their own Pokemon, then use attacks that never miss, I suppose.

How would certain Pokemon be immune to a status effect? The only way possible as of now would be to replace its ability with something like "Sightless: This Pokemon cannot be Blinded." I guess that would change the functionality of those few Pokemon. Any suggestions?

About Pokemon that cannot have Accuracy lowered: how would that work? Would they only be immune to the Accuracy-lowering part of the status, but still be subject to the ATK/Sp.ATK lowering part? Or would they be immune to the status completely?

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The forums wouldn't load so you didn't get to see my edit where I proposed that Light-type would be immune to Light-type. If you shine a flashlight in broad daylight, what's it gonna do?

YOOM-TAH said:

More memorization? That's a bad thing? You're using that to argue against adding content? Please, there are 493 pokemon in this game and 7-year olds can name them all in order.

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LULZ.

Gymnotide said:

Your proposition would also make Accuracy-lowering moves have a completely different functionality - they would not be able to lower Accuracy more than once, and like your first post said, they would also lower a different stat. It would also mean that Blind would bestow immunity to Paralyze, Burn, Poison and Sleep. This could be a good and bad thing - good because it brings in a new modus operandi where a player could Blind their own Pokemon, then use attacks that never miss, I suppose.

How would certain Pokemon be immune to a status effect? The only way possible as of now would be to replace its ability with something like "Sightless: This Pokemon cannot be Blinded." I guess that would change the functionality of those few Pokemon. Any suggestions?

About Pokemon that cannot have Accuracy lowered: how would that work? Would they only be immune to the Accuracy-lowering part of the status, but still be subject to the ATK/Sp.ATK lowering part? Or would they be immune to the status completely?

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The forums wouldn't load so you didn't get to see my edit where I proposed that Light-type would be immune to Light-type. If you shine a flashlight in broad daylight, what's it gonna do?

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No, it wouldn't change ALL Accuracy-lowering moves, just Flash, because Flash would change to Blind-inducing. I don't see the reasoning for Blind making other statuses not work. I never implied that. Are we on the same page here? O.o

As for pokemon being immune to it, it would be the same way someone like Cranidos is immune to Paralyze. Only thing is they do that by Ability, and Pokemon can only have one Ability. That's another thing that could possibly change...allow Pokemon to have more than one ability, so long as they make sense based on the physical nature of the Pokemon.

And lastly, the Sp. Attack/Attack lowering...that was just a random thought...I'll go ahead and scratch that idea.

And good point about the flashlight. In that case, yeah Light should be immune to Light. Now, anticipating your next response to that part, mirror moves WILL still work. Reason being, they don't reflect the attack, they reflect the damage...unless I'm quite mistaken. As far as I know, use some kind of reflecting move on Thunderbolt against a Jolteon, the Jolteon doesn't absorb that. Or does it? Correct me if I'm wrong here.

YOOM-TAH said:

No, it wouldn't change ALL Accuracy-lowering moves, just Flash, because Flash would change to Blind-inducing. I don't see the reasoning for Blind making other statuses not work. I never implied that. Are we on the same page here? O.o

As for pokemon being immune to it, it would be the same way someone like Cranidos is immune to Paralyze. Only thing is they do that by Ability, and Pokemon can only have one Ability. That's another thing that could possibly change...allow Pokemon to have more than one ability, so long as they make sense based on the physical nature of the Pokemon.

And lastly, the Sp. Attack/Attack lowering...that was just a random thought...I'll go ahead and scratch that idea.

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You can only be affected by one status condition at a time - that is, unless you intended it to be more like Confusion. In that case, then it makes sense.

Cranidos is not immune to Paralyze, heh.

Gymnotide said:

You can only be affected by one status condition at a time - that is, unless you intended it to be more like Confusion. In that case, then it makes sense.

Cranidos is not immune to Paralyze, heh.

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My bad, misread his ability. Either way, pokemon like Wingull who can't have Accuracy lowered would operate the same way. Wingull for example would be immune to Blind because of his Keen Eye ability.

And yeah, I suppose you can only be affected by one, but then why is that an argument against it if it's already an aspect of the game? We don't say Burn shouldn't be in the game because if a pokemon is Burned it can't be Poisoned.

YOOM-TAH said:

My bad, misread his ability. Either way, pokemon like Wingull who can't have Accuracy lowered would operate the same way. Wingull for example would be immune to Blind because of his Keen Eye ability.

And yeah, I suppose you can only be affected by one, but then why is that an argument against it if it's already an aspect of the game? We don't say Burn shouldn't be in the game because if a pokemon is Burned it can't be Poisoned.

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Having good eyes doesn't stop someone from shining a lazer beam into them and making you lose your vision. Lulz.

Actually, I forget. I completely lost my train of thought - and it's your idea anyways, so you can conduct the train any way you want :P

Gymnotide said:

Having good eyes doesn't stop someone from shining a lazer beam into them and making you lose your vision. Lulz.

Actually, I forget. I completely lost my train of thought - and it's your idea anyways, so you can conduct the train any way you want :P

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Lol. Well, blowing bubbles at someone doesn't hurt either, yet we have that. It doesn't always need to make sense. Keen Eye already stops Wingull from being affected by anything that lowers Accuract, so if Blind lowers Accuracy (which it logically would) then Keen Eye should prevent that. That's all I'm saying. If it doesn't, so be it. Change Wingull's ability.

I'm sure if the bubbles contained a massive amount of air on the inside, with enough pressure on the outside from keeping them from bursting, they would hurt a ton on impact. Like having a balloon popped in your face! Ouch.

Eheh.

Gymnotide said:

I'm sure if the bubbles contained a massive amount of air on the inside, with enough pressure on the outside from keeping them from bursting, they would hurt a ton on impact. Like having a balloon popped in your face! Ouch.

Eheh.

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Maybe so, but look at the animation for Bubble. Doesn't look like it. Looks more like those kinda bubbles you buy for 50 cents for a kid to blow while playing at a picnic or something.

Fact is, no matter how you get around it, certain things don't make sense when you think about them in terms of logic. You have to think about them completely differently for them to make sense. A good visualization would be the show. Look at Piplup use Bubblebeam. They explode with smoke and everything. That makes no sense, but it's Pokemon, so we don't care! :D

In answer to your earlier point, nintendo care very muh about a metagame and fairness. If rules were made unfair then competetive battles would have no appeal and would detrat from the numbers at tourneys and the like.

And S&D were introduced to weaken psychic type. Lets have a look at 1st gen:
Psychic Type:
*Weak Against Bug- Seems fair enough, but the only pokemon capable of using bug moves are bugs, since none were available in TMs. Now compare all 1st gen Bugs to the two most widely used psychics, if not most widely used pokesmon, in 1st gen: Mewtwo and Alakazam. Both of these pokes outsped all bugs in the game and hit them with STABed, super effective psychics with two of the highest stats in the game. Then consider it has nothing that resists it, and tell me it wasnt imbalanced.

Gofre said:

In answer to your earlier point, nintendo care very muh about a metagame and fairness. If rules were made unfair then competetive battles would have no appeal and would detrat from the numbers at tourneys and the like.

And S&D were introduced to weaken psychic type. Lets have a look at 1st gen:
Psychic Type:
*Weak Against Bug- Seems fair enough, but the only pokemon capable of using bug moves are bugs, since none were available in TMs. Now compare all 1st gen Bugs to the two most widely used psychics, if not most widely used pokesmon, in 1st gen: Mewtwo and Alakazam. Both of these pokes outsped all bugs in the game and hit them with STABed, super effective psychics with two of the highest stats in the game. Then consider it has nothing that resists it, and tell me it wasnt imbalanced.

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What is so unfair about Light? The fact that you all haven't given it any thought and therefore just think it will screw everything up does not constitute unfairness. It will still be a balanced game. It will just CHANGE the metagame. BIG DEAL. Stop being afraid of change.

And yes, they were introduced to weaken Psychic. I never said it wasn't imbalanced back then. But the fact is, if you honestly think that if Psychic was originally not as overpowered and imbalanced as it was, that they would not have EVER added ANY new types, you are absolutely out of your mind.

First off, I don't see a reason to create a new type. As of now, none of the types and Pokemon particularly have a huge advantage of being resistant to so many types nor does one type have an offense that is resisted by such few types. Light is simply another basic idea created by the simple mind of a fan. Now if you put your mind to it, Light does not have much relation to any other type except Dark. What is the point of the LIGHT type? The elements and typings in the metagame can be considered almost equal as of now. Now, look at the fact that the ONLY time that new types were ever created were when the metagame was called uneven because Psychic types dominated the generation. As of now, none of the types dominate the generation. A large amount of Pokemon fans are intrigued to battle and learn about the competitive battling world and still be fascinated and satisfied by it. Some Pokemon are far stronger than others, but that wasn't because of their typing. The metagame is even, the in-game play is also doable, what is the point for a new type at this time? Light is just another concept and thought just to oppose the Dark type. I see no other point in creating it other than this. If the Light type actually were created, a massive amount of the metagame would be changed, along with Pokemon typing alterations, new moves with a new concept, effects, and a whole lot of other stuff. I think Fire and Electric already portray Light pretty well. Really, what creates the light in our bonfire? What creates the light in our lamps? Fire and Electricity.

It's not unfair to make the new type at all, there's just no reason for this new type.

Yeah, I see you're point YOOM-TAH... maybe it wouldn't be so bad having a light type. It sounds pretty interesting the way you've put it.

But I just don't get why Nintendo would randomly add a light type into the Pokemon games. As everyone's said, they didn't just add Steel and Dark because they felt like it, or because they overly care how much gamers wanted more types (though I'm sure they did a little bit). They added them because they needed to get rid of the advantage Psychic Pokemon had. Seeing as all the types are pretty balanced at this point in time, there's really no need to add the light type.

Look at it this way; say I had 3 stacks of... "cheese". xDD;
The first two stacks had 10 pieces, while the last stack only had 9. My objective is to make all three stacks even. I can use as many pieces of cheese that I want, but I have to pay for the extra ones I take. Normally, you would just add one piece of cheese to the third pile, correct? Correct. Now each stack has 10 pieces of cheese. But say I decided to buy three more pieces of cheese to give each stack 11 pieces. The stacks are still even, but I've wasted the amount of money it took to buy 3 pieces of cheese. What's the point?

Adding Dark & Steel in the second generation was fixing a mistake. Adding light would be like improving something that was fine to begin with. There's no point in adding a light type, but at the same time, there's no point in not adding one, really. (besides the extra work which would need to be done, but as you said before, it's not that much).

Anyway, I guess ultimately it's up to Nintendo to decide whether they want to add a light type or not.