New Type: Light

[Anti]

Your reasoning is fair, but it is also just speculation. You could very well be right that it doesn't help their profits. It could just as well be that they don't lose any profits. Reason being, they lose consumers every single time they make a new generation, just to people who lose interest. But at the same time they bring in plenty of new people who are old enough for their parents to buy them a DS and Pokemon and for them to even understand it.

Yes, but Light type also won't bring in new consumers, therefore having no real benefit.

I think losing the few people who care that much about their precious metagame (I have serious issues with that) would be fairly negligible.

Now wait a minute. Competitive battling is a way to enjoy pokemon just like the anime or buying the games just to beat the Elite Four. It would be very unwise for Nintendo to practically cut out the people who play pokemon for competitive purposes, and I honestly don't see why you have serious issues with competitive play.

Our metagame was screwed around with enough in DP, and the result was chaos. Uber/OU discussions raged on and continue to rage on and everything is a total mess. I don't necessarily expect you to understand this though. (That isn't a shot at your intelligence, you just don't seem interested in that aspect of things.

However, like I said, it's only speculation both ways. What I want to know is why are you so opposed to change? How hard do you think it would be to adapt to a bit of change in the metagame? I don't think it would take that long.

Yeah, but the adaptations aren't always the best for the metagame. For example, Stealth Rock made use adapt by always carrying a spinner with Moltres or just not using Moltres at all. Moltres would otherwise be very useful. You're right that it's speculation, but if a light type does anything close to what DP's new additions did, there will be no metagame.

And honestly, I think change would be a good thing. I played NetBattle and honestly, it's boring. Everything is the same thing. Substitutes and Focus Punches and Hidden Powers and all that, it's so boring. It all just comes down to anticipation and tweaked EV distribution. I think change would be great, make it fresh and give people something new to figure out how to incorporate.

That's very much an opinion and I couldn't disagree more. I understand why you might not like Advance battling, as the generation is fairly balanced and can get very stallish (something most people don't find fun). Everything might seem calculated and precise, but a lot of people like that. Those who like these aspects of the game don't want them to be changed a whole lot. People like you who don't necessarily like Netbattle and competitive battling in general (which is perfectly okay) can just enjoy a different aspect of pokemon, and that's what is so great about the franchise.

Plus, like I said before about that, how much more would adding a new type change the metagame than adding new pokemon/moves/items/abilities? I don't think you're opposed to that are you?

It might sound crazy, but I am. I'll just give you some examples of changes in DP:

- Physical/Special attack split gives a lot more power to sweepers

- Stealth Rock enhances both offensive and defensive strategies, while at the same time practically making some pokemon obsolete (like Moltres and Articuno, as well as non-leading Yanmega).

- More powerful attacks in Stone Edge, Close Combat, and a beefed up Outraged (resisted only by steels might I add), which granted sweepers even MORE power over their defense-oriented counterparts.

DP took a lot of prediction and to a lesser extent skill out of the game (though you have to be good to win still).

Adding these new "improvements" has only worsened the metagame. It's fast-paced, something that Little Cup and ubers are for. Some of these changes have erupted in chaos and has made competitive battling a real mess, something that will only magnify if changes like those in DP keep coming. (In case you haven't noticed, I'm no fan of DP.)

But anyway your point about money is taken, but like I said it's speculation. I think Nintendo has a track record of placing innovation and change as a top priority.

I really disagree with the innovation part of that. They change a few things each generation, but keep most things the same (with the possible exception of DP, and the results for that weren't exactly fantastic for competitive battling). Nintendo (smartly) sticks to the same formula that has worked for years. Most of the small gameplay mechanics changes affect competitive battling the most, which is probably why most competitive players such as myself are opposed to the idea of a light type. Adding a few new types worked in GSC when the game was simple, lacking EVs, natures, physical/special splits, and all that jazz. Things are too complicated and a light type would really mess things up.

Before I post my response I must say I appreciate that this has more thought than the "Light is teh opp0site of teh dark type we need it in teh pogeymanz world nao!!!!" "argument" I see a lot. That one just really bugs me >_<

Anyways...

You're right, this is all speculation, and it would largely be speculation on Nintendo's part, so why take the risk of throwing things off for a fairly large portion of the RPG games' audience? Nintendo might not care about competitive battling, but they must surely recognize that it does exist.

From what I've read the people at Nintendo don't like competitive stuff at all with pokemon, so maybe they want to destroy the metagame lol. If that's the case Light type will exist.

Regardless of if the Light Type is ever implemented into the games, I am against it. It would further complicate things that are already a mess (especially in competitive battling) and the idea of a light type itself is uninspiring and generally dull to a very large portion of pokemon's general audience (not just the competitive battlers).

 

[Azonic]

I read your post, and then I looked at your age, and now it all makes sense. I'll leave it at that. Everyone else can come to their own conclusion.

But if you honestly think the concept of Light is beyond the comprehension of little kids, you seriously don't give much credit to people.

Judging one's knowledge and and theories upon one's age can be called a desperate call for help. Honestly, age has nothing to do with this matter, especially when it's Pokemon. And Caerus here is a former Moderator. I wouldn't mess with him and call him inexperienced. ;< -shot'd-

The Light type won't exactly attract more Pokemon fans. So many of the Pokemon fans are on the border of love and hate towards Pokemon, and Nintendo wouldn't exactly risk this just to install an unneeded type in the game.

The problem with change is that they've gone through so much with the exact same types and still have a balanced and stable metagame with trainers experiencing the thrill of having and battling one. Installing such a big change in the game will alter many things, and it will be hard to figure out if it truly would work or if it will mess up. The other two types were added for a reason, the addition of a Light type was just brought up randomly because of the Dark type. With that said, the Light type will not attract any new fans, but just to please a portion of them. With a large portion of fans opposing the creation of a Light type, the Pokemon fandom population will shrink in its size. So many Pokemon have to change, so many movepools will be altered, so many type matchups will be changed just to cause confusion with type matchups and all for one unneeded type.

:x

 

[BeachBoy]

Whoa now, let's not get hasty here people, respect someone's opinion no matter what. Respectfully disagree comes to mind here. ;D

I agree with the others on this one. Countless reasons already provided. And for those people that claim Light should be added to become the opposite to Dark, Fighting type says hi. o/ I just find it unnecessary, we're "stable" with the types we already have. "If it aint broke, don't fix it" in other words. Also, one of the reasons you found it to improve the game was Grass gets a much needed strength, (or something like that) Grass has a super effective on the most abundant type in the game. And if that weren't enough, in competitive play, they are just up there like everyone else. Grass has great strengths, against water, which is a huge plus. Unless you can tell me how Light is needed or really necessary, I oppose such an addition. I was going to post like... a five page reply to this thread the other night, but my computer was taken away. :/ Oh well. I'm pretty much in complete agreement with Anti. (I swear he can read my mind)

Have a nice day. :D

 

[Walrein]

Good to see you adopted my idea of lights beeing fire-immune.
Electric and light resisting themslefs? WHat's the problem with that? Fighting and bug already resist one another.

 

[Aquilae]

Being a competitive player by nature, I could not disagree more with a Light Type. My sentiments are the same as Anti, minus the hate on DP.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. This has come up in this debate umpteen times, and I too agree that making a Light type would not increase Nintendo's pool of consumers and might actually detract them from buying and playing the game, and buying the related merchandise. It would be a waste of time and effort on Nintendo's part to consider making a Light type further stirring up the game and also making it more confusing. I just noticed that Bug resisted Bug, something I had neglected to check in my whole experiences in Pokemon. This adds another point to my statement, the Light type would needlessly complicate things.

You have had bad experiences from netbattle but I doubt you can make statements about the competitive metagame being unimportant. As much as Nintendo neglects the whole metagame it has made a conscious effort not to neglect those playing there, as evidenced by WiFi, the Stadium games (and PBR), and also the battle towers and frontier. I reiterate, Nintendo would not create a new type to detract consumers from pokemon, also considering the majority of older fans are attracted because of the competitive metagame. Seeing as Nintendo does not wish to neglect this portion of its fanbase as evidenced by Pokemon 151, it would not consider making a Light type.

 

[YOOM-TAH]

This argument seems to have reached less of a "fact against fact" thing and is more just opinions on either side, so there's not much to say.

I just happen to think that no matter what is added, the metagame can adapt. Pokemon isn't the only game that has competitive styles, and every franchise that is similar has always introduced change that has been molded and made to fit people's competitive style. And the more balanced things are in terms of more pokemon being useful in competitive battles, the better IMO.

I am related in this discussion of SSB. I take you all are the type who would play Melee over Brawl.

 

[.]

Psychic, to me, seems like a 'Light' type. It shares a lot of characteristics with the concept of light.

Anyway, that "resistence/strength" chart makes no sense. Why would Ice and Grass be effective against it? I also feel if light were to have any strengths, it would be effective against: Dark and Ghost. And it would be ineffective against: Electric/Ground/Steel/Rock.

Still, the concept of Light this far into Pokemon would complicate things for sure.

 

[Anti]

This argument seems to have reached less of a "fact against fact" thing and is more just opinions on either side, so there's not much to say.

I just happen to think that no matter what is added, the metagame can adapt. Pokemon isn't the only game that has competitive styles, and every franchise that is similar has always introduced change that has been molded and made to fit people's competitive style. And the more balanced things are in terms of more pokemon being useful in competitive battles, the better IMO.

I am related in this discussion of SSB. I take you all are the type who would play Melee over Brawl.

Now I disagree a lot with that second paragraph. This isn't meant in an insulting way, but I don't think you'd really know what it would do to the metagame seeing as you don't play competitively and aren't really too familiar with just how things operate now. (They're a lot different than Netbattle, which was RSE's metagame, as DP really threw things off.)

You know how we adapted to Stealth Rock? We stopped using Moltres, Articuno, and friends and really hurt other otherwise-insane pokemon like Yanmega, Gyarados, and Salamence. You know how we adapted to Outrage? We carry a steel on every team, which really threw things off.

Here's the one I want to stress - You know how we adapted to Sand Veil on the most frightening sweeper in OUs? We didn't, because would couldn't. You just have to hope your Ice Beams don't miss or you're toast, so the only "adaptation" some feel we can make is to ban it to Ubers. That's what one ability on the right pokemon can do to the metagame - essentially throw it into chaos (with the help of Wobbuffet and to a lesser extent Deoxys-S of course).

Now imagine that on a larger scale. When Dark and Steel types were added in GSC, they didn't have a groundbreaking effect. they did bring down the overpowered Psychics from RBY, and steels just gave us some more walls and threw the game into heavy stall (which is why many liked that metagame). Now we have about twice as many pokemon, a lot more moves and a more complicated game with the physical/special split, natures, EVs, IVs, and about all the other game mechanics we care about.

A Light type would SEVERELY alter the metagame. Think about what GSC did, and multiply its effect. It could throw the game into heavy stall again, or make offense so powerful it would be like little cup, or make a lot of pokemon unusable while making others more powerful than perhaps the ubers of this generation. That last one is what I fear the most, since it would make the metagame unplayable. You said it yourself - Nintendo doesn't care about the metagame, so if Light type were to be added, I doubt they'd really try to nerf it much (just look at the still-powerful dragons who rule).

As for the Melee/Brawl analogy, that isn't really a good analogy. Melee was more of a DP style game while Brawl is more of an Advance style game (judging on speed of the game alone). ADV transitioning to DP didn't destroy the metagame (and the other way around wouldn't either). Light type could. That's why most people don't want it and that's why it wouldn't be wise for Nintendo to make one.

And as I've mentioned several times before, most people oppose it just because the idea is uninspiring to many people and what would come out of light type would be less than stellar to those people (not in the context of competitive battling either).

That, and...

I don't see any good reason for Nintendo to make a light type. To them, I doubt they saw adding steels and darks as a way to make money. Light type is unnecessary and I just don't see why Nintendo would add it.

And Aquilae, I am very proud of my DP hate :P

 

[.]

Well, Anti, I do know one thing: Blissey will not be affected much by the addition of Light :D

 

[YOOM-TAH]

We just think differently. All that stuff about what you said to DP's changes and how you adapted...you know why mental response was as I was reading it? It was "Good." Because honestly I think it's way more fun now. I don't expect you to agree with that in any way whatsoever, and if you completely disagree which I know you do, I'm fine with that.

I wish I could get more suggestions from people who would like the game to actually not remain the same thing over and over and over, but it seems not many people like that exist here. Oh well. I guess this topic is done.