Need Help With Team

Aduitt · May 9, 2018

Making a team, need some help refining the sets.
Choice explanations below.

Fever (Ninetales-Alola) @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Encore
- Blizzard
- Dazzling Gleam

Alola Ninetales is really just to get over pokemon with a x4 weakness to ice which are all too common. Normally it is sent out 2nd or 3rd. It is really just here for a nice special attacker and a great way to defend my team (Aurora veil)
I run encore so I can force them to swap out and occasionally give myself an opening to replace Ninetales.

Ordinary (Aerodactyl) @ Life Orb
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

I was previously running a choice band set for Aerodactyle but found it to clog far too often as I would get locked into moves like Ice Fang whilst attacking a Toxapex or something.
The set I am running is alright. I would however prefer to swap this pokemon out for a different sweeper. Possibly a sheer force Feraligator?

Gameshow (Manectric) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Lightning Rod
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Switcheroo
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]

This set is used to deal with electric type Pokémon. When possible I can swap Manectric in taking the electric type move, buffing my special attack with 'Lightning Rod'
If needed, I can use switcheroo to give a physical attacker or stall Pokémon my choice Specs, forcing a swap out (most of the time).
I do like this build but I know that I could easily just replace it with a somewhat better option, a Motor Drive Pokémon. Thoughts?

Surgery (Sharpedo) @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Psychic Fangs

What can I say.
Mega Sharpedo is just a solid Pokémon, not much I can say that's negative about it.

Lavender (Sableye) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Recover
- Protect
- Shadow Ball

Not should run this toxic stall set or a Willow O' Wisp, Calm Mind, Shadow Ball set. Thoughts?

Invincible (Infernape) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Blaze Kick
- Thunder Punch
- Close Combat

Despite the name, this Pokémon is designed to die early. First use Stealth Rock, hopefully you out speed them. With the 1 HP you have left you can take advantage of his ability 'Blaze' and Blaze Kick them to the Next Millennia.
Normally I would swap this guy out for Alola-Ninetales after this guy dies so I am able to finish my setup.

PlatinumDude · May 10, 2018

Aurora Veil teams are generally hyper-offensive; it helps the frailty of some setup attackers by giving them buffed defenses to help set up. Defensive Pokemon like Sableye suck away momentum.

Alolan Ninetales learns Moonblast, which outclasses Dazzling Gleam in singles because of its greater power. It isn't particularly strong either; it mainly focuses on setting up Aurora Veil, then switching to a teammate:
-Aurora Veil
-Freeze-Dry
-Hypnosis
-Hail
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248 HP/8 SpA/252 Spe
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning

Mega Tyranitar is generally a better option on Aurora Veil teams than Aerodactyl as a Rock attacker because of its immense bulk, with or without Aurora Veil up. It or Mega Mawile should also be the Mega of choice over Sharpedo in this team, as Sharpedo is a late-game Pokemon and you only have one shot of sweeping with it, given that it loses Speed Boost when it Mega Evolves and that Mawile or Tyranitar function well at any point during the game:

Tyranitar:
-Dragon Dance
-Stone Edge
-Ice Punch
-Earthquake/Fire Punch
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream

Mawile:
-Swords Dance
-Play Rough
-Sucker Punch
-Knock Off/Thunder Punch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spe
Item: Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate/Hyper Cutter

Tapu Koko outclasses Manectric as a Choiced Electric attacker because the Electric Terrain it summons compensates for its not very impressive Special Attack. Koko is also faster than Manectric is:
-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-Dazzling Gleam
-Hidden Power (Ice/Fire)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs

Hawlucha pairs well with Tapu Koko as an alternative late-game attacker because of the Unburden + Electric Seed combo:
-Swords Dance
-High Jump Kick
-Acrobatics
-Roost/Stone Edge
Nature: Adamant
Eva: 96 HP/252 Atk/36 SpD/124 Spe
Item: Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden

If you went for Tyranitar as the Mega, Magearna is also worth a spot on the team because of its good bulk in and out of Aurora Veil and shares the same typing as Mawile does without taking up a Mega slot:
-Shift Gear
-Fleur Cannon/Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Focus Blast/Hidden Power (Fire)/Calm Mind
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
Item: Fairium Z/Electrium Z/Leftovers

Focus Sash on anything in an Aurora Veil team is bad because if you're brought down to your Sash, the hail will KO the holder; likewise, if the Pokemon survives, the hail damage will render Focus Sash useless. I'd rather not use Infernape in here because while it has a good move pool, it's stopped cold by Toxapex (while EQ and Thunder Punch are options for dealing with it, they're not the most optimal coverage attacks). Instead, use Volcarona, which has more raw power off the bat:
-Quiver Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Fire Blast
-Psychic/Hidden Power (Ground)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
Item: Buginium Z/Psychium Z/Charti Berry
Ability: Flame Body

Bisharp is worth considering over Sableye because it has Defiant to discourage Defog from removing Aurora Veil:
-Knock Off
-Iron Head
-Sucker Punch
-Swords Dance/Pursuit
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Darkinium Z/Dread Plate/Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant

Aduitt · May 10, 2018

PlatinumDude said:
Aurora Veil teams are generally hyper-offensive; it helps the frailty of some setup attackers by giving them buffed defenses to help set up. Defensive Pokemon like Sableye suck away momentum.

Alolan Ninetales learns Moonblast, which outclasses Dazzling Gleam in singles because of its greater power. It isn't particularly strong either; it mainly focuses on setting up Aurora Veil, then switching to a teammate:
-Aurora Veil
-Freeze-Dry
-Hypnosis
-Hail
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248 HP/8 SpA/252 Spe
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning

Mega Tyranitar is generally a better option on Aurora Veil teams than Aerodactyl as a Rock attacker because of its immense bulk, with or without Aurora Veil up. It or Mega Mawile should also be the Mega of choice over Sharpedo in this team, as Sharpedo is a late-game Pokemon and you only have one shot of sweeping with it, given that it loses Speed Boost when it Mega Evolves and that Mawile or Tyranitar function well at any point during the game:

Tyranitar:
-Dragon Dance
-Stone Edge
-Ice Punch
-Earthquake/Fire Punch
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream

Mawile:
-Swords Dance
-Play Rough
-Sucker Punch
-Knock Off/Thunder Punch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spe
Item: Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate/Hyper Cutter

Tapu Koko outclasses Manectric as a Choiced Electric attacker because the Electric Terrain it summons compensates for its not very impressive Special Attack. Koko is also faster than Manectric is:
-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-Dazzling Gleam
-Hidden Power (Ice/Fire)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs

Hawlucha pairs well with Tapu Koko as an alternative late-game attacker because of the Unburden + Electric Seed combo:
-Swords Dance
-High Jump Kick
-Acrobatics
-Roost/Stone Edge
Nature: Adamant
Eva: 96 HP/252 Atk/36 SpD/124 Spe
Item: Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden

If you went for Tyranitar as the Mega, Magearna is also worth a spot on the team because of its good bulk in and out of Aurora Veil and shares the same typing as Mawile does without taking up a Mega slot:
-Shift Gear
-Fleur Cannon/Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Focus Blast/Hidden Power (Fire)/Calm Mind
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
Item: Fairium Z/Electrium Z/Leftovers

Focus Sash on anything in an Aurora Veil team is bad because if you're brought down to your Sash, the hail will KO the holder; likewise, if the Pokemon survives, the hail damage will render Focus Sash useless. I'd rather not use Infernape in here because while it has a good move pool, it's stopped cold by Toxapex (while EQ and Thunder Punch are options for dealing with it, they're not the most optimal coverage attacks). Instead, use Volcarona, which has more raw power off the bat:
-Quiver Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Fire Blast
-Psychic/Hidden Power (Ground)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
Item: Buginium Z/Psychium Z/Charti Berry
Ability: Flame Body

Bisharp is worth considering over Sableye because it has Defiant to discourage Defog from removing Aurora Veil:
-Knock Off
-Iron Head
-Sucker Punch
-Swords Dance/Pursuit
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Darkinium Z/Dread Plate/Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant

Good tips.
However I would like to avoid using OU if possible. One or two isn't an issue, but when I get too many the team becomes too predictable.

PlatinumDude · May 10, 2018

Aduitt said:
Good tips.
However I would like to avoid using OU if possible. One or two isn't an issue, but when I get too many the team becomes too predictable.

The reason why I suggested OU Pokemon is because they've been tried and true tested. That doesn't make them predictable by any means; some Pokemon like Tapu Koko and Magearna have multiple sets that they can use, adding a degree of unpredictability (Shuca Berry Koko is starting to make the rounds as an example). That, and some of your choices tend to be outdone by the Pokemon I mentioned.

For instance, regular Aerodactyl is outclassed by its Mega counterpart because of its better power (thanks to Tough Claws) and Speed. Sharpedo only functions in the late-game, since it's a "go big or go home" kind of Pokemon in that it must hold off of Mega Evolving to stall for a Speed boost before Mega Evolving; the Speed boost will be removed if Sharpedo switches out, leaving Sharpedo with no chance of increasing its Speed for the rest of the battle (Adamant 105 Speed isn't that great for the record). The reason why I suggested Tyranitar or Mawile as the Mega instead is because they can function well at any point during the game; Mega Tyranitar is even one of the lesser-used Megas for the record.

IMO, you shouldn't make suboptimal choices for a team just for the sake of avoiding predictability. You have to consider what the Pokemon offers over more viable alternatives as well.

Let me ask you something: what does Manectric offer over Koko, or even Choiced attackers that have Trick/Switcheroo like Blacephalon, Hoopa Unbound, Jirachi, Victini, and Latios?

Aduitt · May 10, 2018

PlatinumDude said:
The reason why I suggested OU Pokemon is because they've been tried and true tested. That doesn't make them predictable by any means; some Pokemon like Tapu Koko and Magearna have multiple sets that they can use, adding a degree of unpredictability (Shuca Berry Koko is starting to make the rounds as an example). That, and some of your choices tend to be outdone by the Pokemon I mentioned.

For instance, regular Aerodactyl is outclassed by its Mega counterpart because of its better power (thanks to Tough Claws) and Speed. Sharpedo only functions in the late-game, since it's a "go big or go home" kind of Pokemon in that it must hold off of Mega Evolving to stall for a Speed boost before Mega Evolving; the Speed boost will be removed if Sharpedo switches out, leaving Sharpedo with no chance of increasing its Speed for the rest of the battle (Adamant 105 Speed isn't that great for the record). The reason why I suggested Tyranitar or Mawile as the Mega instead is because they can function well at any point during the game; Mega Tyranitar is even one of the lesser-used Megas for the record.

IMO, you shouldn't make suboptimal choices for a team just for the sake of avoiding predictability. You have to consider what the Pokemon offers over more viable alternatives as well.

Let me ask you something: what does Manectric offer over Koko, or even Choiced attackers that have Trick/Switcheroo like Blacephalon, Hoopa Unbound, Jirachi, Victini, and Latios?

I agree that OU Pokémon are good, that's why they are Over Used.
However I will repeat myself, the sets become predictable. I know there are different variations to the sets but even they lose their surprise after playing against them two or three times.
You may not agree in the slightest but hey, we all play differently.
I play by avoiding OU when I can and make a team to counter the modern meta, you play with that meta to refine and produce a fierce team.

Note: Manetric has Lightning Rod and if it becomes a problem that it can't out speed, I can swap it out for a Motor Drive Pokémon.
Also, I mentioned that I would prefer to replace Aerodactyle as I know the set is bad. Would you recommend any heavy hitters that aren't in OU?

Nah · May 10, 2018

Could always like, idk, use Choice Scarf or Dragon Dance Tyrantrum if you want to have a non-OU Rock type cleaner in place of Aerodactyl. You lose your ground immunity though.

Knock Off is something to consider over Shadow Ball on Sableye. Item removal is probably more useful than whatever small amounts of damage it'll do with Shadow Ball.

PlatinumDude · May 10, 2018

Aduitt said:
I agree that OU Pokémon are good, that's why they are Over Used.
However I will repeat myself, the sets become predictable. I know there are different variations to the sets but even they lose their surprise after playing against them two or three times.
You may not agree in the slightest but hey, we all play differently.
I play by avoiding OU when I can and make a team to counter the modern meta, you play with that meta to refine and produce a fierce team.

Note: Manetric has Lightning Rod and if it becomes a problem that it can't out speed, I can swap it out for a Motor Drive Pokémon.
Also, I mentioned that I would prefer to replace Aerodactyle as I know the set is bad. Would you recommend any heavy hitters that aren't in OU?

The problem is, none of the Motor Drive Pokemon are viable in OU. Electivire may have good coverage, but it lacks power at times. Zebstrika and Emolga have pathetic offensive movepools and underwhelming offensive stats. All three are PU for these reasons. Also, Manectric is outclassed by its Mega form, as it has Intimidate for extra utility, but then again, it's still outclassed by Tapu Koko since it provides similar power with Electric Terrain-boosted Thunderbolts without taking up a Mega slot.

Nihilego may be a niche choice in OU, but it does well as a solid special Rock attacker:
-Power Gem
-Sludge Wave
-Hidden Power (Ice)
-Grass Knot/Thunderbolt
Nature: Timid
EVs: 180 SpA/80 SpD/248 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

Just because OU Pokemon are "predictable" doesn't mean that they should be disregarded entirely. Some OU Pokemon run lure sets to deal with their own checks/counters. For example, Kartana sometimes runs Darkinium Z with Night Slash or Normalium Z with Giga Impact to lure in and KO/weaken Zapdos, one of its biggest counters, as it resists its dual STABs and Sacred Sword. Tapu Lele and Latios sometimes use Electrium Z with Thunderbolt or Thunder to lure in and KO Celesteela. Heatran uses Groundium Z and Earth Power to lure in and KO Toxapex after trapping it with Magma Storm. (Mega) Latios sometimes uses Earthquake or Surf (and occasionally with their respective Z crystals) to lure in Heatran and Tyranitar, both of which wall its STABs handily. Tyranitar sometimes uses Fire Blast or Ice Beam to lure in Scizor/Ferrothorn and Landorus/Zygarde respectively. Tapu Koko occasionally uses physical sets (Electrium Z with Wild Charge is an example) to lure in special walls like Chansey. The point I'm trying to make here is that even if OU is too "predictable" for you, other players can adapt with the tried and true Pokemon. If you want to use a Pokemon that's not OU by usage, you have to have really good justification on why you're using it over the other viable options. While you did that with Manectric, it's not good enough because Mega Manectric does everything its regular form does better.

Aduitt · May 10, 2018

PlatinumDude said:
The problem is, none of the Motor Drive Pokemon are viable in OU. Electivire may have good coverage, but it lacks power at times. Zebstrika and Emolga have pathetic offensive movepools and underwhelming offensive stats. All three are PU for these reasons. Also, Manectric is outclassed by its Mega form, as it has Intimidate for extra utility, but then again, it's still outclassed by Tapu Koko since it provides similar power with Electric Terrain-boosted Thunderbolts without taking up a Mega slot.

Nihilego may be a niche choice in OU, but it does well as a solid special Rock attacker:
-Power Gem
-Sludge Wave
-Hidden Power (Ice)
-Grass Knot/Thunderbolt
Nature: Timid
EVs: 180 SpA/80 SpD/248 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

Just because OU Pokemon are "predictable" doesn't mean that they should be disregarded entirely. Some OU Pokemon run lure sets to deal with their own checks/counters. For example, Kartana sometimes runs Darkinium Z with Night Slash or Normalium Z with Giga Impact to lure in and KO/weaken Zapdos, one of its biggest counters, as it resists its dual STABs and Sacred Sword. Tapu Lele and Latios sometimes use Electrium Z with Thunderbolt or Thunder to lure in and KO Celesteela. Heatran uses Groundium Z and Earth Power to lure in and KO Toxapex after trapping it with Magma Storm. (Mega) Latios sometimes uses Earthquake or Surf (and occasionally with their respective Z crystals) to lure in Heatran and Tyranitar, both of which wall its STABs handily. Tyranitar sometimes uses Fire Blast or Ice Beam to lure in Scizor/Ferrothorn and Landorus/Zygarde respectively. Tapu Koko occasionally uses physical sets (Electrium Z with Wild Charge is an example) to lure in special walls like Chansey. The point I'm trying to make here is that even if OU is too "predictable" for you, other players can adapt with the tried and true Pokemon. If you want to use a Pokemon that's not OU by usage, you have to have really good justification on why you're using it over the other viable options. While you did that with Manectric, it's not good enough because Mega Manectric does everything its regular form does better.

How about this then?

Ordinary (Feraligatr) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Ice Fang
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance

Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower
- Volt Switch

Surgery (Zoroark) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Trick

Invincible (Infernape) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Blaze Kick
- Thunder Punch
- Close Combat

Gameshow (Roserade) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder

Lavender (Vaporeon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Protect
- Wish
- Toxic

Vaoprion could be swapped out for Clefable However (I know its OU but I admit it is a great stall Pokémon)

PlatinumDude · May 11, 2018

Aduitt said:
How about this then?

Ordinary (Feraligatr) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Ice Fang
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance

Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower
- Volt Switch

Surgery (Zoroark) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Trick

Invincible (Infernape) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Blaze Kick
- Thunder Punch
- Close Combat

Gameshow (Roserade) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder

Lavender (Vaporeon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Protect
- Wish
- Toxic

Vaoprion could be swapped out for Clefable However (I know its OU but I admit it is a great stall Pokémon)

You're still missing my point. What's your justification of using these Pokemon over more viable alternatives besides using them to avoid predictability? If you want to include Pokemon that's not OU by usage, it's better that you build around them rather than randomly throwing them in.

I hope you realize that OU isn't the only Smogon tier. If you want to play in an environment where the Pokemon you picked don't feel overshadowed by things like the Tapus, Heatran, and Therian Landorus, play in the lower tiers, like UU, RU, NU, or even PU.

Noctis · May 11, 2018

Is Glalie any good in pokemon ultra moon?I wanted to use it on a competitive team with alolan Ninetales,Tapu Fini,Sableye,Metagross,and Garchomp.

Need Help With Team

More options

Aduitt

Confused

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Aduitt

Confused

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Aduitt

Confused

Nah

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Aduitt

Confused

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Noctis

Finally back after some family problems