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[Challenge] Same Types Are Bad (STAB) Challenge

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    Are you tired of throwing Surf on that Water type Pokemon of yours? Want to try and escape having a Grass type slap your opponents silly with Vine Whip?

    Welcome to the silliest Challenge for a game built around STAB: The "Same Types Are Bad" Challenge, or, "STAB-less"!

    The Rules

    0. You may use any Pokemon you wish.

    1. You may not use a STAB-move on your Pokemon when in battle.

    2. For runs where you intend to catch dual-types, you must either choice "Semi-STAB", for where only the primary type is not-usable, or "Pure-STAB", which moves of either type are not usable. This will hold true across all Pokemon you catch (that is, you can't say you exclude both from a Spearow but not from a Pidgey).

    3. Status moves may be of any type, but must not deal damage. The status affliction must be the primary action. In short, if it has a Base Power, it's not a status move.

    4. If you have a Pokemon that starts with a move that would grant STAB in battle (say, a Krabby with only Bubble), you may use that move until you learn one that isn't STAB. At that point, you must no longer use the STAB move.

    5. Because of the restrictions for some HMs (Fly or Surf, for example), you may teach them to Pokemon that have that type. They cannot use the move in battle, though. A good example: A Lapras can learn Surf, but because it is a STAB move, it can have it on the moveset for surfing around, but cannot use it during a battle.

    6. If a Pokemon can only learn moves that are STAB, such as a Normal type that can only learn Normal type moves, they are allowed to use those moves. However, only one such Pokemon like this can be on your team at a time.

    7. Pokemon that gain new types after evolving but learn moves of that type prior to evolution can use the move until evolving. Then you have a choice: keep the move or evolve and no longer use it. Or, perhaps, you think strategically about when to evolve...

    Exemptions:

    A. Since Smeargle learns Sketch, if a Normal-type move is sketched as the first move Smeargle learns, it can be used. That is, if a L1 Smeargle used Sketch and it learned Quick Attack, it could use that until Level 11, when it learns Sketch again.

    B. Because Metronome is so random, and STAB is uncontrollable, any Pokemon that can learn it is eligible to do so. However, you may have only two Metronome users on your team at any one point (in the hopes of avoiding a Metronome run).

    Your Choices
    As with many of the other challenges, you can do a Single Challenge of a specific game...or the Ultimate Challenge. Ultimate Challenges must have at least one game completed from each region: Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, Kalos, and Alola. Ultimate Runs may be done in any order and in any main series game.

    Note regarding Galar and Paldea (or, in the future, any additional regions):
    Spoiler:


    If you choose to use Rom Hacks such as difficulty or all Pokemon available, those are eligible, but the rules above apply given what was changed. For example, if Charmander was now Fire/Dragon instead of Fire/Flying, Dragon moves are no longer usable but Flying moves are.

    If you end up completing a set of Singles in each region using either Semi-STAB or Pure-STAB, you'll qualify for the Ultimate and will be moved there (so no need to claim initially if you aren't sure you'll get around to an Ultimate).

    Endpoints
    A game is considered beat when the credits start rolling for the first time.

    Sign-Up
    Please read the above carefully, asking any questions you find necessary for clarification or your own curiosity, and if you choose to attempt the challenge, include the following form in a post:

    Code:
    User:
    STAB Style (Pure or Semi):
    Game(s):
    Single / Ultimate:

    Challengers

    Semi-STAB Single:
    Spoiler:


    Pure-STAB Single:
    Spoiler:


    Semi-STAB Ultimate:
    Spoiler:


    Pure-STAB Ultimate:
    Spoiler:


    Hall of Fame

    Semi-STAB Single:
    Spoiler:


    Pure-STAB Single:
    Spoiler:


    Semi-STAB Ultimate:
    Spoiler:


    Pure-STAB Ultimate:
    Spoiler:
     
    Last edited:
    164
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    To start us off, I'm going to do a run of Red. Got a few other challenges going, so this will just be a single to start with.

    As always, let me know if you run into anything not clear in the rules, and we'll work together to clear it up!

    User: StenirRPG
    STAB Style (Pure or Semi): Pure
    Game(s): Red
    Single / Ultimate: Single

    Decided to do some preplanning, and this is what I found going through Brock:
    - Bulbsaur's evolution line sort of sucks at the beginning for going STAB-less, unless it is the freebie.
    - Squirtle's evolution line feels better to me than Charizard's. You get Ice moves in addition to the stuff Charizard gets. So, Squirtle it is. Having some resistance to Misty will be nice, also.
    - Rattata is nice due to the TM selection.
    - Pidgey and Spearow appear to be only usable as freebies. Both only really learn Normal and Flying moves.
    - Weedle is kind of stuck until it evolves all the way to Beedrill, but then I get Fury Attack and a number of decent Normal moves from TMs.
    - Caterpie wouldn't be bad when it gets Confusion as Butterfree. The benefit of a Psychic move on a Bug/Flying.
    - Pikachu doesn't feel worth it.
    - Nidorans are decent.

    Sounds like my team heading into Pewter will be Squirtle, Rattata, Beedrill, Butterfree, Nidoran M and Nidoran F. Looking forward to working through it!
     

    Duck

    🦆 quack quack
    5,750
    Posts
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    • he, they
    • Seen Feb 23, 2023
    Sure, why not

    User: Stardrop
    STAB Style (Pure or Semi): Pure
    Game(s): Let's Go Pikachu, Heart Gold, Omega Ruby, Diamond, Black 2, X and Sun
    Single / Ultimate: Ultimate

    I think I can do those games. In case of technical difficulties I'll change that, I suppose. Maybe I'll even add some Gen 8 or 9 even.
     
    164
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    "Sure, why not"

    Basically what I said coming up with the idea. Can't wait to see what comes of your attempt!
     
    164
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    Ultimates generally don't include Galar, because while it's relatively easy enough to play the first seven gens, not everyone has a Switch. The challenge in playing one of these shouldn't ever come down to "do I not complete the Ultimate or do I spend over 400 USD to buy a Switch and a Gen 8 game".

    Anyone can certain do Galar as optional (which I will adjust the post to outright state Galar is an optional region), but those seven are accessible to everyone with just a 3DS: Kanto and Johto from 3DS VC, Hoenn from ORAS, Sinnoh and Unova are DS games that can be played on the 3DS, and Kalos and Alola are 3DS games.

    For someone who plays from Kanto to Alola, I think they've proven they mastered the challenge. If you would like to take on an Ultimate and set yourself the task of seven required regions plus one optional, I would be more than happy to let you make the decision on whether Galar is required for your Ultimate to be complete.

    That's what it comes down to: If a user does the first seven and chooses not to do Galar, then that's an Ultimate for them. If you want to do the first seven, but then say it won't count in your mind without Galar, then I will leave you as a Challenger until you've completed all eight.

    I mean, if we really wanted to define "Ultimate", one could put forth the suggestion that you must complete "all currently available games in every generation", such that one would have to complete Red, Blue, Yellow, Gold, Silver, Crystal, <insert a bunch more games here>, Scarlet, and Violet. But, at the end of the day, we're looking to make a challenge accessible, and following the lead of others on defining an Ultimate, I believe only requiring (but not limiting solely to) the first seven regions counts.
     
    164
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    Update made to the OP regarding Ultimates. Basically, you must complete at least the first seven regions. If you choose to require any other regions of yourself, I will only mark you complete once those are done. If you back out of them, that's fine as long as you've completed the first seven regions.
     
    164
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    First attempt against Brock went...both better and worse than expected. On one hand, I got past Geodude. On the other hand, I learned I had to lean on Growl and Leer to even get that far.

    After the first attempt, I sit like this:
    Squ the L8 Squirtle - Tackle / Tail Whip / {Bubble} /
    Rat the L7 Rattata - Tackle / Tail Whip / {Quick Attack} /
    Ino the L9 Nidoran M - Tackle / Leer / Horn Attack /
    Wee the L8 Kakuna - Poison Sting / String Shot / /
    Cat the L7 Metapod - Tackle / String Shot / /
    Ina the L9 Nidoran F - Tackle / Growl / Scratch /

    { } denotes a move that cannot be used.

    I got past Geodude the first time by using Growl from Ina until I couldn't, but I could never seem to get the defense low enough to really do much to Onix, even with three mons that have Defense lowering moves. However, I recently read up about some level rounding to those that have 0, 3, 5, and 8 as their ones digit, so while I'm thinking having a L8 Rattata and Metapod would be okay, getting them all to L10 would be better. So, that's my focus this evening...and then another attempt.
     
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    • they / them
    • Seen Apr 29, 2024
    I really like this idea, I might try this in the future. Probably one of the more clever ones I've seen in a while, despite its simplicity.
     
    164
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    Finally beat Brock. Squirtle and both Nidoran are level 10 going into the battle, while the others are level 8. Nidoran F was up first, spamming Growl to lower Geodude's damage output. This paves the way for me to bring Squirtle in to spam Tail Whip. Geodude having Defense Curl sort of is a pain, but I do eventually get Geodude to -6 Defense. Then, I don't bother anymore with Tail Whip, even if Geodude uses Defense Curl, and focus solely on Tackle. I only do more damage with -5 and -6 Defense, so no point fighting to keep it that high. Squirtle gets a Potion, but then manages to take Geodude down.

    Onix gets slammed with enough Tail Whip to reach -6 Defense, but it's not really doing much. Certainly nothing notable. At this point, I let Squirtle take the knockdown to put Nidoran F back out to continue the Growl onslaught. Then, a switch to Scratch, and one Potion later, and a bunch of Scratch...and Onix goes down. Sweet.

    Looking forward to the trainers in Route 3 to get some levels up. I can pick up a Jigglypuff, not really for it's level learnset, but rather for it's TM set. However, this might be an interesting idea: Take Jigglypuff and have it learn Sing, Disable, Defense Curl, and Rest. Then maybe give it Toxic...see where this is going? Turn Jigglypuff into a status powerhouse, since status moves are allowed regardless of type. Something to look into, at least!
     
    164
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    Quite a bit to catch up on. Current spot: Making my way down the road to Fuschia right now, but here's a quick summation. The short version? Leveling is key here. I watch a lot of JRose, Mah-Dry Bread, and Scott's Thoughts, and recently there's been more commenting about the level rounding. 0, 3, 5, and 8 are key levels in Gen 1 (maybe Gen 2 also). So, my new tactic is "Didn't work at level 10? Level to 13 and try again. Didn't work there? Try level 15." And so on. Been quite helpful, actually.

    The key points between Brock and arriving in Fuschia:

    - Mt. Moon was fairly dull. I did pick up a Jigglypuff, and I started my collection of Moon Stones. Gonna need three. I did need to take two attempts at that one trainer with a Raticate.

    - I taught Mega Punch to Squirtle, and decided to go up to Bill first before Misty. That allowed me to get Dig, which I also taught to Squirtle. I decided to get everyone to 20 for the battle with Misty, since I was basically already there with most of them. Then I had the bright idea of just doing the S.S. Anne and getting some more TMs from there first - especially Body Slam. I give that to Nidorina. Complete that whole thing and get Cut (which goes on Beedrill).

    - By this point, Misty is easy to get through. You've got Mega Punch, Dig, Cut, and Body Slam. Very easy to take her out. Bubblebeam goes on Jigglypuff.

    - Back to Surge, who is very easy with Dig. Guess where Thunderbolt goes? Jigglypuff.

    - Rock Tunnel, and everyone's level 25. I give Jigglypuff a Moon Stone since, with Bubblebeam, it'll be the move that gets me through Rock Tunnel...as well as Thunderbolt. Between those two moves, I easily make it up to the Self-Destructing Hiker. There, I save, since I'm so near the end, and carefully try to Sing/Bubblebeam my way through it. Sing has such a horrible hit rate, though. I end up spamming Bubblebeam and making it through.

    - Lavender...nothing big. Just heading over to Celadon. I do a bunch of TM stuff. First, Moon Stones on Nidos. TM48 Rock Slide on Nidoqueen. TM17 Submission on Nidoking. TM13 Ice Beam on Wartortle. TM02 Razor Wind on Butterfree. Then I grab something to drink and head into Saffron, picking up TM29 Psychic for Wigglytuff.

    At that point, right before Erika, here's what my team looked like:
    L26 Beedrill (73/54/35/39/53) - Fury Attack / Cut / Rage / Focus Energy
    L25 Butterfree (73/36/38/49/44) - Confusion / Tackle / Stun Spore / Razor Wind
    L26 Wartortle (71/47/56/45/45) - Mega Punch / Ice Beam / Bite / Dig
    L30 Wigglytuff (129/59/45/43/38) - Sing / Bubblebeam / Psychic / Thunderbolt
    L28 Nidoqueen (94/57/64/53/60) - Body Slam / Scratch / Rock Slide / Tail Whip
    L27 Nidoking (87/61/58//52/60) - Horn Attack / Tackle / Leer / Submission

    - Erika turns out to be relatively easy with Butterfree's Confusion. I don't fully make it through just on Butterfree, so I end up having to use Beedrill a bit to finish. Mega Drain goes on Butterfree.

    - I go ahead and level everyone up to 30 for the Rocket Game Corner. I'm really stuck on the whole 0/3/5/8 level thing, it seems. Turns out, a full team of level 30 is almost overkill there. Giovanni is like "rawr, I'm a big baddie" and I take him down fairly quickly.

    - From there, it's on to the fourth Rival fight, and turns out he's the real wimp here. Mr. "I can't kill your Pokemon but I can at least knock them out" is sent packing after dealing with Wartortle and the rest of my team. On my way up the Tower, I use Butterfree a lot because Confusion is nice against all the ghosts. Gotta love Gen 1 like "Ghost > Psychic, but Psychic > Poison. This works!" I end up learning Psybeam and replacing Confusion with it for some extra power. A couple of floors later, I have a nice new Flute that I use to get rid of the Snorlax south of Lavender, and off I head towards Fuschia. I decide to go this way since there are more trainers and I didn't have to go back over to Celadon.

    - While writing this, I've been making my way down towards Fuschia. I'm just now about to turn west on Route 15, the final segment to Fuschia. My team, right now, consists of the following, but I assume I'll be up to level 35 before facing Koga:

    Current Team:
    - L34 Wartortle (91/62/74/60/59) - Mega Punch / Ice Beam / Bite / Dig
    - L34 Wigglytuff (146/67/51/44/48) - Sing / Bubblebeam / Psychic / Thunderbolt
    - L33 Nidoking (106/76/71/74/64) - Horn Attack / Tackle / Leer / Submission
    - L33 Beedrill (95/69/46/68/49) - Cut / Fury Attack / Rage / Focus Energy
    - L33 Nidoqueen (109/68/76/71/63) - Body Slam / Scratch / Rock Slide / Tail Whip
    - L33 Butterfree (94/48/50/59/65) - Psybeam / Mega Drain / Stun Spore / Razor Wind
     
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    Fuschia wasn't too bad - Psychic from Wigglytuff and Psybeam from Butterfree were enough to power through. But before I fought the Gym, I went in to the Safari Zone and got the HMs for Surf and Strength, which I taught to Nidoqueen (replacing Scratch and Tail Whip).

    Fighting my way through Silph Co isn't that bad. Since Gen 1 is rather strapped for cash, I fight every trainer but also head back to the Pokemon Center every time more than half my team faints. The Rival was a relative pushover, as was Giovanni.

    The fight with Sabrina was a little painful, but half my team is Poison, so I did my best to avoid using them. Took me the first attempt to remember that about my team, and the second attempt to win. But I remembered this for later, because it became the final stall point of the run. Still fought all the trainers.

    Blaine...pfft. Surf from Nidoqueen and Dig from Blastoise takes his team out. Still fought all the trainers.

    Final Giovanni. Surf, Dig, and Psychic and Psybeam. Between all of that, easy victory.

    Now comes the fun part: Final Pre-Elite Four Rival. Urgh. I lost a couple of times to some untimely strings of Crits. Gen 1 and it's Crit mechanics, I tell ya. Took me three attempts before I broke through. It probably didn't help that I was an average level of 43. The Elite Four are going to be just as much of a pain...or so I thought.

    Victory Road to me is just a quick blast through to the Elite Four, and if I need to train, I'll come back. So, here's how the last five battles of the game went:

    Lorelei: I started with Wigglytuff and just was spamming Thunderbolt. It wasn't doing a lot, but it was decent damage. And yes, my team is still around Level 43 when I tried this (if only to see how far I'd get). Eventually, Wigglytuff goes down at Jynx and I decide to switch to Nidoking, since it has Fire Blast. The high roll on that is low enough that it will be a 3HKO, but then I remember Jynx has crap defense, so I switch to Horn Attack after the first Fire Blast, and that takes it out. Lapras just wanted to keep confusing me, but I eventually took it down with a couple Rock Slides.

    Bruno: Butterfree reigns supreme here. Mega Drain for the non-fighting types, and Psybeam for those that are. We don't talk about Bruno, etc and all that.

    Agatha: I started with Butterfree, planning on using Psybeam to cut through her team. No luck, I got put to sleep. And then it fainted. Blastoise ended up being the MVP here, due to Dig. And more Dig. And more Dig. I tried to do other things first to avoid using Blastoise, but with half my team down, I bit the bullet and went ahead with the ground assault.

    Lance: Wigglytuff spammed Thunderbolt to take out Gyarados, then I swapped to Nidoking, as it now has Blizzard. I also vaguely remembered something about Poison types and Lance, and how "good AI" helps it. Pretty straightforward.

    Champion Rival: Okay, Alakazam sucks. I tried to set up Beedrill with Swords Dance both on Pidgeot and on Alakazam. If I set up on Alakazam, it's too late, cause Barrier goes up. Even if I try to get lucky with Stun Spore causing Paralyze, it's still likely half my team goes down. I lost twice, both to Alakazam and Barrier/Recover/Psychic getting through Paralysis. The final time, I started with Blastoise, using Ice Beam to take out Pidgeot, and then just spammed Mega Punch. Interestingly, Alakazam didn't ever use Barrier this time, though it did Recover once. I got a very lucky crit on Mega Punch to knock out Alakazam. That was the worst Pokemon to get through. A few minutes later, I'm on the final Pokemon, Venusaur, and it's just a couple of Blizzard and Ice Beam to a win...or so I think - but although all my Nidos and Blastoise go down to some crit Grass moves, Beedrill comes out and sets up Swords Dance...and then just has fun using Cut until Venusaur faints. Yay. Run over.

    Gen 1 wasn't too much of a pain to do this in, but it did require a lot of research before about whether a certain Pokemon was usable, especially in a Generation where a vast majority of the TMs are only available to the player once. I can see that this is going to open up quite a bit as people progress into later generations, where the gameplay is a little less restrictive and learnsets are better thought out...mostly.

    Final Team:
    - L46 Blastoise (141/103/119/100/100) - Mega Punch / Ice Beam / Skull Bash / Dig
    - L46 Wigglytuff (196/92/71/59/66) - Solarbeam / Bubblebeam / Psychic / Thunderbolt
    - L43 Nidoking (137/100/94/97/84) - Horn Attack / Fire Blast / Blizzard / Submission
    - L42 Beedrill (121/89/60/89/63) - Cut / Swords Dance / Rage / Skull Bash
    - L45 Nidoqueen (148/95/105/97/87) - Body Slam / Strength / Rock Slide / Surf
    - L48 Butterfree (136/71/74/86/98) - Psybeam / Mega Drain / Stun Spore / Razor Wind

    I look forward to more runs of this in the future!
     

    Panda280

    Panda280
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  • Hi, I'd like to start this challenge on Pokemon R.O.W.E (Open World Emerald). But, can my electric type pokemon use status move like thunder wave or poison type pokemon use status moves like posion gas?
     
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    Yes - status moves of any type are allowed, since they don't involve calculations that include STAB. As long as the move is non-damaging, the move can be used. I tried to shorthand it in the rules, but basically, a move that causes a status is okay to use even if it's the same type as your 'mon using it...unless it deals damage directly. Toxic or Poison Gas on a Poison 'mon? Good to go since they aren't any stronger than a Normal type using them. Sludge Bomb deals damage, so a Poison-type couldn't use it, even though it has the chance to deal Poison.

    For your examples, those are fine. Feel free to ask any other questions you might have - I'm familiar with ROWE so I don't know what's changed.
     

    Panda280

    Panda280
    165
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  • User: Panda280
    STAB Style (Pure or Semi): Pure
    Game(s): R.O.W.E (Open World Emerald)
    Single / Ultimate: Single

    Start Stab moves are bad challenge
    Verdanturf and Wattson
    Spoiler:


    Flannery
    Spoiler:



    Tate and Liza, Jaun, Wionna, Brawly
    Spoiler:

    Roxanne, Norman
    Spoiler:


    Wally
    Spoiler:


    Elite 4
    Spoiler:


    Final Team
    Special - Exploud (Normal) Lv 77
    Overheat
    Shock Wave
    Shadow Ball
    Synchronoise

    Inert - Eelectross (Electric) Lv 79
    Ice Fang
    Crunch
    Headbutt
    Thunder Wave

    Wholesome - Muk (Posion) Lv 77
    Sucker Punch
    Rock Tomb
    Mud-Slap
    Toxic (Status)

    Rusty - Perserker (Steel) Lv 80
    Fake Out
    Hone Claws
    Slash
    Play Rough

    Slime - Goodra (Dragon) Lv 78
    Thunder
    Acid Spray
    Aqua Tails
    Power Whips

    Coolswan - Drampa (Normal/Dragon)
    Shadow Ball
    Extrasensory
    Calm Mind
    Fly
     
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