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5th Gen Did Black and White deserve their perfect score?

droomph

weeb
4,285
Posts
12
Years
  • Eh...it's fine really. Its good points far outweigh the bad.

    ...there's really not much to say other than that - it's a whole new experience, and I liked it. Except the Pokémon, but I got used to that. :D
     

    Dalek_Kabu

    Resident Fossil
    102
    Posts
    11
    Years
  • only outstanding parts i liked was a more in-deptht story line new fossils and the new gtsn (global trade station negotiation) other than that could have been better (boats to kanto,hoenn,johto,and sinnoh any one?) or more fossils.us
     

    Cyclone

    Eye of the Storm
    3,331
    Posts
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    • Seen Oct 3, 2016
    only outstanding parts i liked was a more in-deptht story line new fossils and the new gtsn (global trade station negotiation) other than that could have been better (boats to kanto,hoenn,johto,and sinnoh any one?) or more fossils.us
    If there is ever a Grey edition, I wonder if a Kanto/Johto map will be added and Pokémon levels within Unova limited to allow you to seek out an extra eight Gyms again. I'd like that. Fly from Mistralton City, only available after beating the Elite 4.

    Even better, someday I'd like a Pokémon Ultimate comprising all five regions; start at Kanto and find three Gyms (obviously some Routes can be closed off due to "construction" or something), then go to Johto and find another three, off to Hoenn for two more, find Victory Road here, then off to a ninth Gym beyond that Victory Road, off to Sinnoh for another trio, then the final four in Unova in that circular loop (Nimbasa, Mistralton with the airport, Icirrus, and Opelucid all being candidates for inclusion) and off to that peninsula through the original Route 10 (reopened after the landslide mess was cleaned up, but VR perhaps simplified for caves being filled in) for its Elite 4, all comprised of Lv.90 Pokémon and a Champion at Lv.95 with a Lv.97 leader. Basically, comprise areas from all five generations into one 16-Gym mega-challenge and force the player to reach the highest levels of training to win. Sounds fun to me. Might need a console system for the data required.

    In other words, that will never happen.

    Cyclone


    Cyclone
     

    Ho-Oh

    used Sacred Fire!
    35,992
    Posts
    18
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    • Seen Jul 1, 2023
    If there is ever a Grey edition, I wonder if a Kanto/Johto map will be added and Pokémon levels within Unova limited to allow you to seek out an extra eight Gyms again. I'd like that. Fly from Mistralton City, only available after beating the Elite 4.

    Even better, someday I'd like a Pokémon Ultimate comprising all five regions; start at Kanto and find three Gyms (obviously some Routes can be closed off due to "construction" or something), then go to Johto and find another three, off to Hoenn for two more, find Victory Road here, then off to a ninth Gym beyond that Victory Road, off to Sinnoh for another trio, then the final four in Unova in that circular loop (Nimbasa, Mistralton with the airport, Icirrus, and Opelucid all being candidates for inclusion) and off to that peninsula through the original Route 10 (reopened after the landslide mess was cleaned up, but VR perhaps simplified for caves being filled in) for its Elite 4, all comprised of Lv.90 Pokémon and a Champion at Lv.95 with a Lv.97 leader. Basically, comprise areas from all five generations into one 16-Gym mega-challenge and force the player to reach the highest levels of training to win. Sounds fun to me. Might need a console system for the data required.

    In other words, that will never happen.

    Cyclone

    Interesting idea, but kind of off-topic from the discussion of whether B/W deserved 40/40. You could always bring that up in Pokemon Gaming Central though @ latter idea. n_n

    Now time to be controversial since most said no! Did they deserve 40/40? Yes. I really think they went all-out with the games. The storyline was amazing, the music was amazing, everything was basically amazing, and the small issues were sorta covered by all the good there actually was in the games. Also it should be noted that at that time there was no B2W2, however, in general it probably would've been assumed that there would be a sequel to fix some of the issues you guys are mentioning. Also if it was too full of stuff, like you guys would've preferred, then there would be no need for sequels, etc. So based on what we have I think they really did deserve 40/40 because they bypassed my expectations as well as others for what we'd see in Pokemon games, and are the start of many things that I'm sure future games will carry on.
     

    Elite Overlord LeSabre™

    On that 'Non stop road'
    9,895
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • No, they did not earn a 40 score. That was one of the deciding factors, one that convinced me to put other concerns aside regarding B/W and actually bite the bullet and buy a copy. And I wanted to kick myself for it. So much in these games either seems like a rushed effort, or a conscious decision to make things more frustrating and tedious. From the menu interface to the altered EXP system, from the massive level gap post-E4 to the lack of key features like the Vs. Seeker, the small things added up to make my experience less than enjoyable. A total score of 30 at absolute best.

    (Then again, I never saw why HG/SS are so highly regarded either. I might have rated them one or two points higher than B/W, at best)
     
    14
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    • Seen Feb 26, 2020
    Just don't listen to Famitsu, they have pretty much no standards. Funny how they give BW2 36/40 when, from an objective standpoint, it's pretty much a better game because it improves on things that were lacking in BW.
     

    Cyclone

    Eye of the Storm
    3,331
    Posts
    11
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    • Seen Oct 3, 2016
    Just don't listen to Famitsu, they have pretty much no standards. Funny how they give BW2 36/40 when, from an objective standpoint, it's pretty much a better game because it improves on things that were lacking in BW.
    See my post. It's more complex for them, thus deserving a lower score.

    Cyclone
     
    14
    Posts
    11
    Years
    • Seen Feb 26, 2020
    See my post. It's more complex for them, thus deserving a lower score.

    Cyclone

    I read your rather insightful post, but I fail to see how BW2 are more complex than their predecessors, as there aren't really any core game changes. You've got features like the PWT, the new move tutors and so forth - but these are quite simple gameplay additions that shouldn't confuse the average player. The region, while updated and a little less linear, isn't all that different.

    Back on topic - I think maybe Famitsu gave BW a 40/40 because they were impressed with the new region, the new Pokemon, et cetera. I don't think it deserves such a score, though, because it wasn't devoid of flaws (can't be bothered to nitpick now so I won't list them). They are definitely great games, though, but let's face it: how different are they from the other installments in the franchise? I feel like if BW deserved its perfect score, most if not all of the other games should have been ranked equally.
    Spoiler:
     

    Cyclone

    Eye of the Storm
    3,331
    Posts
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    • Seen Oct 3, 2016
    It's not my view that it's more complex. I think it's a great enhancement to the game and a nice way to add new areas to an existing map; the more interesting it is, the more chance I'll keep playing. The only things missing are Cold Storage, replaced by PWT with a different entrance to the south (someone tell me if you can access from Driftveil?) and Route 10, removed entirely due to a landslide on Victory Road, leading to the new route and Badge Check Gates near the ruins of N's Castle. (I believe Undella Bay is replaced by the Marine Tube, too, anyone care to confirm?) Meanwhile, there are a ton of new areas to explore, and the leveling system seems a lot better and more fair post-Elite 4 as I believe you're already fighting Wild Pokémon in the 50s by the time you get there (with the 60s leading to Numeva Town this time around; I know by Route 9 you're in the 40s, which B/W don't even have on Victory Road).

    My comment on simplicity, however, might be what Famitsu is referring to in their lower score. If B/W gets a 40, B2/W2 deserves a 45. However, having areas that branch off from the circular area of the prior game may be something they don't like. Maybe it's the PWT they don't like. Maybe they want Cold Storage back! (After all, Vanillite, the first ice-type, was there in the grass outside.) Maybe they want something more out of the Marine Tube, or they're nostalgic about Numeva Town and mad they can't start there again. Who knows? Something caused them to give the game a 36, as I expected they would (I expected a 35, but meh). It deserves a higher ranking than B/W as it seems a more put-together game with more storyline...but then, maybe there's too much storyline for Famitsu. Maybe it's all the stuff you have to do before Castelia City (the play thing being forced upon you, or whatever that is). Who knows?

    Cyclone
     

    Ho-Oh

    used Sacred Fire!
    35,992
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    • Seen Jul 1, 2023
    Hey guys, just a reminder that to discuss B2W2's score, that fits in B2W2, rather than here. I notice it's all relative, but I have a feeling you guys might veer off into discussing just B2W2's score and why (which is sorta what the last post kinda was) so just make sure it sticks to B/W, carry on! n_n
     
    4,569
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    • Seen May 28, 2019
    No it did not. Contrary to popular beliefs, I feel like this game was the least different from the last one, in such it did not introduce something new that is a major factor to how the game is played compared to the other gens. Gen 2 introduced new types and balanced the whole typing, it's very different from Gen 1. Gen 3 introduced EVs, IVs and natures, and thus the games are vastly different from the last. Gen IV introduced the physical/special split which is actually a very big change.

    But what has B/W introduced? Dream World and third abilities? That's not too big. Triple Battle and Rotation? ...nah. It's just gen IV on crack with weather.

    Of course the whole thing is arguably different to a (I hate this word) "casual"'s point of view. But to a lot, it narrows down to the game's design. I felt B/W, as a whole, had terrible decisions in its design. Unova is a boring region, that feels completely empty, dull and especially short. (There are exceptions of course but it doesn't change anything.) The region design just isn't as memorable and limited to explore. B/W are the only games in which I completely put down and haven't turned back on (sold it actually) because of the very lackluster post-game.
    I also don't see the praise in its story, this whole dark theme didn't do it justice, especially not in a main Pokemon theme that follows the past game's simplicity and audience. Pokemon Colosseum/XD did it right with shadow Pokemon, loveable characters and overall visuals. (However, it was targeted at an older audience. But B/W wasn't.)
    The characters are also boring and uninspired for the most part in terms of design and characteristics. It's not like the main games had a lot of interesting and lovable characters, but I feel B/W as a whole was a step down in that department, especially with the new evil team and ugh N. (Luckily B/W2 fixes that with the new gym leaders and especially Corless.)

    One thing it did right in the designs is the new Pokemon. I complained about the design of the game, but actually praised the Pokemon? Oh god!
    In all seriousness however, the new Pokemon was definitely a step up from gen 4, as the designs were superb and inspired, even if their overall abilities gameplay-wise is vey questionable. (The new Pokemon really ruined the metagame for a lot of people.) HOWEVER, there is a huge problem in those new Pokemon in that they're the only ones available throughout the whole main game. That is just a poor decision, as it loses the overall variety in making your teams and it just feels limited. A lot of people would love using the old Pokemon should they dislike the new ones. (I don't support nostalgia-glass and those people, but you have to give them a bone if you want them to bite.) If this is their idea of a reboot, then it's just a poor attempt.
    Fortunately, again, B/W2 fixes most of these. However, with the bad taste that B/W left to me, I'm not sure I am really interested in it.

    Another thing is that what makes it deserve the higher score from other, arguably better, Pokemon games? Simplicity is a HUGE factor, as mentioned here, because a huge amount of people just pick-up the game and beat it fast, without spending too much time with raising their Pokemon and doing the post-game aspects. This is also huge for kids because it's not too complex for them. (D/P/Pt...)

    Of course this is purely my opinion, and are not factual points whatsoever. I just feel B/W changed what shouldn't have been changed and kept what shouldn't have been kept from the main Pokemon games.
    Overall, I would say that BW really deserves the 40/40. It's graphics are definitely nothing if you compare them to RPG games on other consoles, like Final Fantasy on the PS3 or something like that. But for a DS game, it's hard to find anything better than BW.
    Graphically, it looks horrible. If you want a DS game with better art styles and visuals then Hotel Dusk, Warioware, Okamiden, Ghost Trick, Yoshi's Island DS, Rhythm Heaven and Metroid Prime: Hunters are just a few examples of better games visually and graphically (and generally...well, imo :P). If you want RPGs exclusively, Final Fantasy 4 DS and The World Ends With You are the first to come to mind.

    They should have kept with HG/SS's style, but maybe it'd make B/W look too similar.
     
    Last edited:
    7,741
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    • Seen Sep 18, 2020
    Just don't listen to Famitsu, they have pretty much no standards. Funny how they give BW2 36/40 when, from an objective standpoint, it's pretty much a better game because it improves on things that were lacking in BW.
    When one grades a video game along a linear scale, one can only do so in respect to the current standards of the time, because, it should be needless to say, the future of video games hasn't happened, and it will always continue to be the future, so we cannot know it. Pretty much any game produced now is far more expansive and 'better' than one made in, say, 1993. One could retroactively rescore games as the times progress; I've not seen anyone do that though. If review scores could be made to consider all games that will come to exist in the future, those scores would still be very low without much variation between diffrent games, and that, for present-day purposes, rather defeats that these scores are supposed to be relative.
     
    7
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    • Seen Aug 1, 2012
    Personally, I really disliked Pokemon Black. I missed all of the older pokemon that I loved so much, and I disliked Bianca. I didn't get too far into the story line, so I can't really give an opinion on that. I ended up quitting early because I got frustrated.
    I think dedicated fans would rate it higher, and fans who like the nostalgia of Pokemon would rate it lower. So, from the perspectives of the people who gave it such high ratings, it did deserve it. I think just the fact that it's a Pokemon game contributed to the score as well.
     

    Cyclone

    Eye of the Storm
    3,331
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    11
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    • Seen Oct 3, 2016
    Personally, I really disliked Pokemon Black. I missed all of the older pokemon that I loved so much, and I disliked Bianca. I didn't get too far into the story line, so I can't really give an opinion on that. I ended up quitting early because I got frustrated.
    I think dedicated fans would rate it higher, and fans who like the nostalgia of Pokemon would rate it lower. So, from the perspectives of the people who gave it such high ratings, it did deserve it. I think just the fact that it's a Pokemon game contributed to the score as well.
    The post-game, I agree, was poorly thought out (and I'm not even there yet). It seems all of the Gen. II Pokémon were thrown in as an afterthought; Ditto seems to be the only one worthwhile because it allows for breeding to become so much easier. It would have been better, I think, to have the extra part of the map only accessible from the PL area after beating the Elite Four, thus allowing for more storyline (and even skippable towns) in the surrounding areas. The game seems to have been rushed, however, and is way too linear compared to the average Pokémon game. I've already determined, once I catch some good Dittos, to start setting up a shop of Pokébabies to trade right from Level 1 for anyone wanting to raise them in their games. If you can indeed trade non-Gen. V Pokémon into the game before meeting the Elite Four for the first time, this could be a useful service and will serve as the reason I want to catch everything I can.

    Cyclone
     
    4,569
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    • Seen May 28, 2019
    The game seems to have been rushed, however, and is way too linear compared to the average Pokémon game.
    I knew I forgot something. This is definitely something that turned me off.

    Linearity in a Pokemon game is definitely a big negative. Be it someone who just wants to pick up and play, someone who likes the series, a big "casual" fan, or a very dedicated "hardcore" fan, the thing that makes the Pokemon game so memorable is the big sense of exploration, finding miss-able areas and discovering new Pokemon, and when that's lacking it could really give a bad impression on the player. I really miss some things like the Old Chateau and Safari Zones. B/W, as a Pokemon game, really suffers from this. It's really too straight-forward, and you can't really miss any Pokemon that are available in the main game.

    Though I wouldn't call the game rushed, more like poorly design. And the reason to the linearity is the badly thought region.
     

    Pokedra

    Retired
    1,661
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    • Seen Aug 21, 2016
    I always felt it was more linear due to the story, like it makes no sense for you to able to go anywhere when the story needs to progress. I didn't mind the linearity as much but I would've preferred more freedom towards the end. I feel they sacrificed freedom for story which makes the main story better but the exploration aspect suffers from this. New graphics were nice but the pixellated Pokemon in battle sprites were pretty ew. New Pokemon weren't to my taste, there were such pretty cool ones (Serperior, Kyurem and Hydregion) but generally this has been my least favourite generation of Pokemon.

    Pros
    - Better characters (N, Cheren)
    - Better story
    - New graphics / certain battle mechanics
    - Memorable tunes

    Cons
    - Post-game is inferior to previous games.
    - Less exploration
    - Only Unova Pokemon until post game.

    I feel 36/40 is a reasonable score for it, great not nowhere near a 40/40.
     
    184
    Posts
    18
    Years
  • No it did not. Contrary to popular beliefs, I feel like this game was the least different from the last one, in such it did not introduce something new that is a major factor to how the game is played compared to the other gens. Gen 2 introduced new types and balanced the whole typing, it's very different from Gen 1. Gen 3 introduced EVs, IVs and natures, and thus the games are vastly different from the last. Gen IV introduced the physical/special split which is actually a very big change.

    But what has B/W introduced? Dream World and third abilities? That's not too big. Triple Battle and Rotation? ...nah. It's just gen IV on crack with weather.

    Of course the whole thing is arguably different to a (I hate this word) "casual"'s point of view. But to a lot, it narrows down to the game's design. I felt B/W, as a whole, had terrible decisions in its design. Unova is a boring region, that feels completely empty, dull and especially short. (There are exceptions of course but it doesn't change anything.) The region design just isn't as memorable and limited to explore. B/W are the only games in which I completely put down and haven't turned back on (sold it actually) because of the very lackluster post-game.
    I also don't see the praise in its story, this whole dark theme didn't do it justice, especially not in a main Pokemon theme that follows the past game's simplicity and audience. Pokemon Colosseum/XD did it right with shadow Pokemon, loveable characters and overall visuals. (However, it was targeted at an older audience. But B/W wasn't.)
    The characters are also boring and uninspired for the most part in terms of design and characteristics. It's not like the main games had a lot of interesting and lovable characters, but I feel B/W as a whole was a step down in that department, especially with the new evil team and ugh N. (Luckily B/W2 fixes that with the new gym leaders and especially Corless.)

    One thing it did right in the designs is the new Pokemon. I complained about the design of the game, but actually praised the Pokemon? Oh god!
    In all seriousness however, the new Pokemon was definitely a step up from gen 4, as the designs were superb and inspired, even if their overall abilities gameplay-wise is vey questionable. (The new Pokemon really ruined the metagame for a lot of people.) HOWEVER, there is a huge problem in those new Pokemon in that they're the only ones available throughout the whole main game. That is just a poor decision, as it loses the overall variety in making your teams and it just feels limited. A lot of people would love using the old Pokemon should they dislike the new ones. (I don't support nostalgia-glass and those people, but you have to give them a bone if you want them to bite.) If this is their idea of a reboot, then it's just a poor attempt.
    Fortunately, again, B/W2 fixes most of these. However, with the bad taste that B/W left to me, I'm not sure I am really interested in it.

    Another thing is that what makes it deserve the higher score from other, arguably better, Pokemon games? Simplicity is a HUGE factor, as mentioned here, because a huge amount of people just pick-up the game and beat it fast, without spending too much time with raising their Pokemon and doing the post-game aspects. This is also huge for kids because it's not too complex for them. (D/P/Pt...)

    Of course this is purely my opinion, and are not factual points whatsoever. I just feel B/W changed what shouldn't have been changed and kept what shouldn't have been kept from the main Pokemon games.

    Graphically, it looks horrible. If you want a DS game with better art styles and visuals then Hotel Dusk, Warioware, Okamiden, Ghost Trick, Yoshi's Island DS, Rhythm Heaven and Metroid Prime: Hunters are just a few examples of better games visually and graphically (and generally...well, imo :P). If you want RPGs exclusively, Final Fantasy 4 DS and The World Ends With You are the first to come to mind.

    They should have kept with HG/SS's style, but maybe it'd make B/W look too similar.
    BW actually introduced the new exp system which supposedly makes it more challenging for players. I doubt many like it though.

    What you said about the game design is quite true though. There's not much to do in Unova. Well, yes, initially many new things will marvel you in your first visit, but after some time you wouldn't really bother noticing it anymore. But other than the Johto series (where you get to travel to Kanto) and FR/LG (Sevii Islands), there's really nothing much in the map of other games. You just visit the same place and battle the same people every day.

    Judging by the few games you stated up there, I understand why you complain about the graphics in BW. The following just an assumption, but it sounds like you're used to 2D and cute cartoon gaming with a one dimension camera angle that playing a game like BW which has different camera angles probably made your head spin. Talk about nostalgia glass people. It's laughable that you claim games like Warioware and Yoshi's Island DS is suppose to have better graphics than Pokemon. Of course, Yoshi's Island is less pixelated than pokemon (if I remember correctly), but it's graphics are no different from any other DS games.

    Basically I don't really see why everyone is complaining about the post game of BW. It's the only game which I have been able to pick up every day to play for a few hours, although what I play is very routined: Tuck in my pokemon, play in the dream world, wake up pokemon, fight in the stadiums and royal unova and game freak to train the new pokemon I got from the dream world, and if I still have time, trade in the GTS or play random matchup battles. This alone has kept my other DS games and my PSP at bay (don't really have any time to play them). But I guess if you don't play DW and don't have access to the GTS or already completed your pokedex, there's really nothing to do in the game. But still, we should remember, the only pokemon main series game that actually had a proper post game is the Johto series. R/B/G/Y practically ended after beating E4 and catching Mewtwo, R/S is not much better, and Sevii Islands wasn't something big. I don't know about D/P/Pt though, because I didn't complete it (found it hard to play D/P/Pt after playing HG/SS and BW). But comparing to other pokemon games (with the exception of the Johto games), BW has an okay post game, although it's all about filling your National Dex and searching for the sages (which seems like a lousy mini game anyway).
     

    curiousnathan

    Starry-eyed
    7,753
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  • I found the BW to be just touching good on their best. For me, I don't really like the Gen V pokemon much, and being picky, I really can only do 2 re-runs before all the pokes I do like run out and the game becomes boring. The extreme lack of post-game content compared to other games such as HGSS really lowered by experience as a whole, and the repetition of the Elite Four and Gym Leader types (Ice 7th gym, Dragon 8th Gym | Dark, Psychic, Fighting and Ghost) really made those 'dramatic, ultimate' battles really tedious and stale. Personally, it's perfect score is far from earnt. :<
     
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