Seen November 22nd, 2009
Posted May 31st, 2009
169 posts
15.6 Years
Who here plays LC? For the unfamiliar, this means Little Cup, and if you've been reading my sig, I retired from serious laddering to play it (though I did it for entirely different reasons and just picked up LC later on).

Some people may remember the Level Five thing Pokemon Stadium had going. Little Cup is basically that, and it's gotten a big upgrade when we fast-forward to D/P.

The basic rules for Little Cup are as follows:
-Standard clauses. For those who've heard otherwise, the ultimate decision is that Item Clause is NOT standard for Little Cup. But it's optional like anywhere else.
-The Pokemon've got to be level five. Yes.
-The Pokemon must be part of an evolution chain. Sadly, you cannot bring your Sableye.
-The Pokemon must be at the lowest evolution in the chain. Yep. Charmander. Not Charmeleon.
-If the Pokemon's named Tangela, Meditite, Yanma, Sneasel, or Scyther, you can't use it. These Pokemon are essentially the Uber tier of LC, and were found overpowered. DeapSeaTooth is considered a banned item, since Clamperl is overpowered when holding it (but is not overpowered when holding anything but DST).

How's LC different from Standard anyhow?

1. It's a heckuva lot more offensive.

Little Cup is the offensive metagame, where any neutral hit tends to at least 2hko most of the time. Walls are at a minimum (and Bronzor is usually your best friend when aiming for this), and even the "Special Defense Normal Type" of the metagame can get KO'd fairly easily by Special Attacks (Munchlax's aim is to survive the hit and kill the Special threat before Munchlax gets killed). Your main hope to survive attacks will usually rely on finding something that can resist what your opponent is throwing out. Spikes and Toxic Spikes are rare indeed, as you'll usually do more damage just hitting the opponent, though Stealth Rocks are still favored for ruining Focus Sash.

2. Set-up's a game.

Unlike OU, where things like Rain teams and Trick Room are only seen occasionally, LC features team set-up a whole lot more. Because of LC's nature, Rain is fairly ideal, as it provides the Speed and Double-Stab to make things threatening. Though Weather's nowhere near as omnipresent as Ubers or similar things, a team that has now way of stoppering Rain Dance teams will not be a happy team in LC. Trick Room is somewhat less common, but still viable, as many of the things with the most destructive power in LC have the lowest speed.

3. Priority is a friend.

In LC, Priority can make a game-breaking difference. Where most things are frail and fragile, the ability to hit first all the time makes priority extremely awesome. Sucker Punch, Aqua Jet, Quick Attack, Fake Out, and more are all prominent in LC. Fear them, for they are mighty. Again, your best defense is a good resist, and failing that, something neutral with fair defenses to take advantage of a usually-lower base power.

4. Evolving into an OU does not mean success.

While you may be tempted to use Happiny, Larvitar, or maybe even Gible in your team, be warned that evolving into an OU Pokemon doesn't mean its lowest form is awesome. Though some exceptions exist, like Gastly and Bronzor, you'll find yourself down on your luck if you try to go wholesale with Blissey's littlest sister. LC makes its own names, with things like Murkrow, Meowth, etc. forming the OU. Don't be tempted to use a bad Pokemon just because it has an awesome evolution.

5. EVs are a heckuva lot different at Level Five

4 EVs don't go quite as far in LC, where you'll usually require 36 or more to get even a single stat point. Basic LC analyses for good EVs can be found here, but you're otherwise going to have to experiment a little to find the ideal.

And finally:

6. Leftovers is phail.

In something like LC, you'll rarely - if ever - get enough bang for your buck out of Leftovers. The tempting Sitrus berry may look good for things needing recovery, but be warned: In D/P it recovers a flat 25% health for everything. This sad fact relegates the job of major healing item to the Oran berry, which recovers 10 HP, which is usually more than what wou'll get from a Sitrus Berry. Let's look at, say, a 30 HP Munchlax. With 30 HP, 10 would be equal to 33% or so of Munchlax's health recovered, while Sitrus Berry would recover 25% as always. The percentage gain gets even higher as you move to lower base HP than Munchlax.

Eh? Eh? =D
It seems this place was left behind,
while time moves forward endlessly.
Perhaps it's only in my mind?
I haven't yet begun to see...

BeachBoy

S P A R K of madness

Age 31
Male
Texas
Seen November 17th, 2016
Posted November 16th, 2016
8,396 posts
15.3 Years
T_S and I were talking about this the other day. Seeing as Little Cup is the only other metagame I play, due to it's lovely offensive nature. :3

Another main point to it is that it's a slaughter fest of revenge killing, from what I've been seeing lately.

If the Pokemon's named Tangela, Meditite, Yanma, Sneasel, or Scyther, you can't use it.
On some sites, the only banned Pocket Monster in the Little Cup metagame is Scyther, including Smogon. o_o Some tested don't see as overwhelming. Though, I could definitely see why in those, very hard to deal with.

edit: It's so freaking hard to find dedicated people who play the Little Cup though, same goes for sites of Little Cup. >_> It's a rare thing these days. Excellent post, Mag! :D
credit to easterly
Queensland, Australia
Seen June 6th, 2016
Posted December 9th, 2014
1,830 posts
15.8 Years
Meditite should definatley be banned, and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it is. The others are all fine, although I think Sneasel should be shipped off, it's in a similar boat to scyther. (Although not quite as potent)

P.S. I'm still waiting for that Little Cup RMT Beachy. :P
P.S.S. I could go for a Little Cup battle, would you like to meet me on ABYAY's server? We could make it a battle log, get some interest going. =p

~T_S

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Aquilae

=))))))))88888888OOOOOOOO<

South East Asia (Singapore)
Seen January 16th, 2010
Posted December 28th, 2009
386 posts
15.4 Years
You persuaded me to get into Little Cup the other day =D Now I don't know where to start, with the majority of the analyses uncompleted (I feel naked without a reference book =( ).

Should I try to make my team Diglett proof? Because I looked at the current reference materials on Smogon and it seems that Diglett can revenge-kill just about anything....

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BeachBoy

S P A R K of madness

Age 31
Male
Texas
Seen November 17th, 2016
Posted November 16th, 2016
8,396 posts
15.3 Years
Meditite should definatley be banned, and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it is. The others are all fine, although I think Sneasel should be shipped off, it's in a similar boat to scyther. (Although not quite as potent)

P.S. I'm still waiting for that Little Cup RMT Beachy. :P
P.S.S. I could go for a Little Cup battle, would you like to meet me on ABYAY's server? We could make it a battle log, get some interest going. =p

~T_S
Sneasel and Cranidos (not banned anywho) seem okay to be left in though, you have to have premier physical attackers somewhere. Yanma, and Meditite I can agree with on ban. I'm still iffy on Sneasel, I don't think it's that overwhelming. Overcentralizing the LC metagame hammers that as well too. So, eh, yeah, I'll agree on the ban list. :)

That RMT isn't coming anytime soon T_S, been changing things around too much. XD So thanks for the offer, but I'll pass.

ps. Staryu is a beast in Little Cup for me. :D In the "OU" of LC, it really does thrive on my teams. And just to note, just because I've been playing it a couple of months doesn't mean I know a whole lot either, still learning myself. XD With a heavy lack of knowledge out there. >>; Overall, very fast paced, offensive, FUN (omg, Aquilae hate word?) metagame. =D
credit to easterly
Seen November 22nd, 2009
Posted May 31st, 2009
169 posts
15.6 Years
I think I forgot to mention in the OP that moves like Dragon Rage and Sonicboom are banned. XP

T_S and I were talking about this the other day. Seeing as Little Cup is the only other metagame I play, due to it's lovely offensive nature. :3
*High-fives*

Another main point to it is that it's a slaughter fest of revenge killing, from what I've been seeing lately.
Yeah. Diglett and Murkrow in OU tend to do that. =P


On some sites, the only banned Pocket Monster in the Little Cup metagame is Scyther, including Smogon.
It's been agreed upon that the Smogon article concerning Little Cup is somewhat outdated (heck, it doesn't even mention Murkrow or Bronzor).

Yanma was agreed upon because Speed Boost is way too good for speed-based LC. And anything that it can't kill, it can put to sleep (and most things that can take Sleep like Murkrow are usually pretty dang afraid of switching into Yanma).

Sneasel's ability to outspeed Diglett is just insane (it doesn't even need a plus-speed nature). Plus an Attack higher than most. SD Ice Shard can kill just about any Scarfer. Bronzor's the only thing that'll ever have a decent chance at walling it, and it can be 2HKO'd if Sneasel's just a little bit lucky.

Meditite OHKOs Bronzor without any boosts. 'Nuff said.

Tangela's extremely hard to stop, especially with six turns (Heat Rock Sunny Day) in which it's virtually impossible to outspeed, has an huge Defense to stop priority, and a movepool which covers pretty much anything: Solarbeam, HP Fire, and AncientPower. And auto-weather's not really as common in LC.

DeepSeaTooth was banned because Clamperl had a pretty acceptable Defense to survive priority, and could easily be passed an Agility to render sweeping incredibly easy. Though the concess as to a Trick Room sweeper wasn't broken, being passed a single Agility usually meant a total sweep.

Excellent post, Mag! :D
:D

I might post up my latest LC team up on here (and possibly an LC warstory). =O
It seems this place was left behind,
while time moves forward endlessly.
Perhaps it's only in my mind?
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LethalTexture

Breeder and Battler

Age 31
Male
Colchester, United Kingdom
Seen October 4th, 2020
Posted October 3rd, 2020
2,309 posts
16.1 Years
A similar thread to this cropped up a few months back, and I was really interested in it. I'd like to get involved in this, as a new way of battling does seem intriguing.

"My soul cries out that this is where I belong."
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sims796

We're A-Comin', Princess!

Age 33
Brooklyn, NY (Yeah, I'm a New Yorker, like Luigi)
Seen January 14th, 2014
Posted November 30th, 2012
5,861 posts
16 Years
I th it was called Petit cup. Is Gloom allowed, or just Oddish?

Oh, just Oddish nevermind.
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Seen June 9th, 2010
Posted July 2nd, 2009
134 posts
17.8 Years
I remember when tehre was a lv 1 league, sort of like this, exept that all pokemon were....well......lv 1.
It's really fun to play aswell, I wouldn't mind getting into this on shoddy(perhaps a little league cup in the wireless battle stadium, *Hint Hint*)
Is there an Item clause, because all 6 members holding an Oran berry is really annoying.
So if we could get something like this up and going, I think it would be pretty fun.

ABYAY

Advancing the Yarzan species

Age 33
West Virginia
Seen September 15th, 2014
Posted September 25th, 2013
881 posts
15.5 Years
lol Ubers LC? Well...technically, I guess you could actually say that. Yanma, Tangela, Sneasel, Scyther (total beast though since its base stats are way too high and are equal to Scizor), and whatever else.

I'm still thinking about LC.


The Yarzan species is making progress.

Espy Psyche

General of Pokemon Defender

Age 34
Pittsburgh, PA
Seen August 13th, 2009
Posted August 8th, 2008
574 posts
18 Years
Oh, I remember Little Cup from GSC. But here's something that might need to be LC Uber that you might not think of. Eevee.

Eevee @ Choice Band (Ability: Adaptability)
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP
Nature: Adamant (Atk+/SAtk-)
- Last Resort
-
-
-

Eevee's 55 base Attack gives it a stat of 16 (16.5), so with a CB it has 24 Atk.
Last Resort is 130 power, and Eevee gets double-STAB on it. 292 power.
Eevee can actually OHKO Bronzor with max damage on this move. And Bronzor resists it. Broken? I think so.


With the main site up and many analyses pinned, I can help new players better than ever! Join up and learn without the hassle of being flamed by veterans!


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Seen November 22nd, 2009
Posted May 31st, 2009
169 posts
15.6 Years
Oh, I remember Little Cup from GSC. But here's something that might need to be LC Uber that you might not think of. Eevee.

Eevee @ Choice Band (Ability: Adaptability)
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP
Nature: Adamant (Atk+/SAtk-)
- Last Resort
-
-
-

Eevee's 55 base Attack gives it a stat of 16 (16.5), so with a CB it has 24 Atk.
Last Resort is 130 power, and Eevee gets double-STAB on it. 292 power.
Eevee can actually OHKO Bronzor with max damage on this move. And Bronzor resists it. Broken? I think so.
Tiny problems:

1. If memory serves, Last Resort dictates that there must be another move that has been used first, so no CB if you ever plan to use Adaptibility.
2. It's not like Gastly, Misdreavus, and Shuppet don't exist. =P
3. Eevee is pretty dang slow. 15 Speed is kinda laughable in LC.
4. Eevee is pretty dang frail. It's not going to take much to kill it off.
5. iirc, Adaptibility doubles, not double-STAB. So it'd be 260. =P Just a note.
It seems this place was left behind,
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Espy Psyche

General of Pokemon Defender

Age 34
Pittsburgh, PA
Seen August 13th, 2009
Posted August 8th, 2008
574 posts
18 Years
Tiny problems:

1. If memory serves, Last Resort dictates that there must be another move that has been used first, so no CB if you ever plan to use Adaptibility. Return/Frustration are still applicable too, if I'm wrong about Last Resort.
2. It's not like Gastly, Misdreavus, and Shuppet don't exist. =P They exist to Meditite too. And they have SE STAB against him.
3. Eevee is pretty dang slow. 15 Speed is kinda laughable in LC. So is Meditite.
4. Eevee is pretty dang frail. It's not going to take much to kill it off. So is Meditite.
5. iirc, Adaptibility doubles, not double-STAB. So it'd be 260. =P Just a note. That makes it more broken. After you add STAB to that 260, it's 390. Return would be 306.
If I made another mechanics error, tell me.


With the main site up and many analyses pinned, I can help new players better than ever! Join up and learn without the hassle of being flamed by veterans!


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Seen November 22nd, 2009
Posted May 31st, 2009
169 posts
15.6 Years
They exist to Meditite too. And they have SE STAB against him.
Assuming your original plan, Meditite would only have had Hi Jump Kick. >.>

So is Meditite.
Grab a Scarf. Congratulations, you are now faster and stronger than an Eevee with Choice Band. You'll still bulldoze over just about anything needed.

So is Meditite.
Got me there. Meditite has slightly higher defense, though.

That makes it more broken. After you add STAB to that 260, it's 390. Return would be 306.
Apparent miscommunication. Adaptibility replaces STAB. It does not stack on top of it. Henceforth, Return'd only be putting at 204; significantly less than a vaunted 292.
It seems this place was left behind,
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Perhaps it's only in my mind?
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ABYAY

Advancing the Yarzan species

Age 33
West Virginia
Seen September 15th, 2014
Posted September 25th, 2013
881 posts
15.5 Years
Allow me to clear up Adaptability.

Last Resort's BP is...130 I believe? With just STAB (say you have Run Away for some stupid reason), you'd have 195 BP, which is x1.5. With Adaptability, the power is 2x instead of 1.5x, so Last Resort is 260 BP. Return would hit 204 BP, which is still dang impressive. Slap on a CB and smack away with whatever you can hit with.


The Yarzan species is making progress.

Anti

return of the king

Non-binary
Kobe's Reality
Seen March 6th, 2022
Posted January 17th, 2022
10,818 posts
15.8 Years
I have always wanted to try out LC but there just isn't a lot of information about it like, say, OUs on Smogon's page. I actually have some pretty fun ideas to joke around with and have fun with. It looks like a fun metagame to play in ^________^

Also lol Luvdisc is banned.
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Espy Psyche

General of Pokemon Defender

Age 34
Pittsburgh, PA
Seen August 13th, 2009
Posted August 8th, 2008
574 posts
18 Years
Ah. I assumed it stacked on top of STAB, that's why I thought it would make Eevee broken. It's still good though, just not overly so.

Abra I'm guessing would be horribly OU if not banned. Focus Punch will always OHKO Happiny and often OHKO Munchlax, from the best special attacker in the metagame that has 19 speed without a scarf? I actually used Abra back in GSC's Little Cup and it was awesome then, before Focus Punch to deal with special walls.


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Age 29
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In the swimming pool
Seen November 17th, 2013
Posted December 23rd, 2011
1,194 posts
15 Years
I love to play LC on the official server, except no one makes teams anymore...

Anyways..

I noticed alot of you guys were talkin about banned pokemon, and pokemon that shouldn't be on there. I think the rule is that if a pokemon is allowed to be used in LC if and only if it is the first of an evolutionary family of three pokemon(etc. in the Pikachu family, only Pichu is allowed.) There are some exceptions, however, based on stats, I think.

Here's a list of pokemon I know for sure cant be used in LC:
Sneasel
Scyther
Wynaut
Shuckle
Luvdisc
Miltank
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Seen January 3rd, 2011
Posted December 25th, 2008
832 posts
14.9 Years
I love to play LC on the official server, except no one makes teams anymore...

Anyways..

I noticed alot of you guys were talkin about banned pokemon, and pokemon that shouldn't be on there. I think the rule is that if a pokemon is allowed to be used in LC if and only if it is the first of an evolutionary family of three pokemon(etc. in the Pikachu family, only Pichu is allowed.) There are some exceptions, however, based on stats, I think.

Here's a list of pokemon I know for sure cant be used in LC:
Sneasel
Scyther
Wynaut
Shuckle
Luvdisc
Miltank
Miltank, Shuckle, and Luvdisc don't even meet the regular qualifications for LC.