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So... Who here likes Little Cup?

Magmortified

Wherever I fly
  • 169
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    • Seen Nov 22, 2009
    Who here plays LC? For the unfamiliar, this means Little Cup, and if you've been reading my sig, I retired from serious laddering to play it (though I did it for entirely different reasons and just picked up LC later on).

    Some people may remember the Level Five thing Pokemon Stadium had going. Little Cup is basically that, and it's gotten a big upgrade when we fast-forward to D/P.

    The basic rules for Little Cup are as follows:
    -Standard clauses. For those who've heard otherwise, the ultimate decision is that Item Clause is NOT standard for Little Cup. But it's optional like anywhere else.
    -The Pokemon've got to be level five. Yes.
    -The Pokemon must be part of an evolution chain. Sadly, you cannot bring your Sableye.
    -The Pokemon must be at the lowest evolution in the chain. Yep. Charmander. Not Charmeleon.
    -If the Pokemon's named Tangela, Meditite, Yanma, Sneasel, or Scyther, you can't use it. These Pokemon are essentially the Uber tier of LC, and were found overpowered. DeapSeaTooth is considered a banned item, since Clamperl is overpowered when holding it (but is not overpowered when holding anything but DST).

    How's LC different from Standard anyhow?

    1. It's a heckuva lot more offensive.

    Little Cup is the offensive metagame, where any neutral hit tends to at least 2hko most of the time. Walls are at a minimum (and Bronzor is usually your best friend when aiming for this), and even the "Special Defense Normal Type" of the metagame can get KO'd fairly easily by Special Attacks (Munchlax's aim is to survive the hit and kill the Special threat before Munchlax gets killed). Your main hope to survive attacks will usually rely on finding something that can resist what your opponent is throwing out. Spikes and Toxic Spikes are rare indeed, as you'll usually do more damage just hitting the opponent, though Stealth Rocks are still favored for ruining Focus Sash.

    2. Set-up's a game.

    Unlike OU, where things like Rain teams and Trick Room are only seen occasionally, LC features team set-up a whole lot more. Because of LC's nature, Rain is fairly ideal, as it provides the Speed and Double-Stab to make things threatening. Though Weather's nowhere near as omnipresent as Ubers or similar things, a team that has now way of stoppering Rain Dance teams will not be a happy team in LC. Trick Room is somewhat less common, but still viable, as many of the things with the most destructive power in LC have the lowest speed.

    3. Priority is a friend.

    In LC, Priority can make a game-breaking difference. Where most things are frail and fragile, the ability to hit first all the time makes priority extremely awesome. Sucker Punch, Aqua Jet, Quick Attack, Fake Out, and more are all prominent in LC. Fear them, for they are mighty. Again, your best defense is a good resist, and failing that, something neutral with fair defenses to take advantage of a usually-lower base power.

    4. Evolving into an OU does not mean success.

    While you may be tempted to use Happiny, Larvitar, or maybe even Gible in your team, be warned that evolving into an OU Pokemon doesn't mean its lowest form is awesome. Though some exceptions exist, like Gastly and Bronzor, you'll find yourself down on your luck if you try to go wholesale with Blissey's littlest sister. LC makes its own names, with things like Murkrow, Meowth, etc. forming the OU. Don't be tempted to use a bad Pokemon just because it has an awesome evolution.

    5. EVs are a heckuva lot different at Level Five

    4 EVs don't go quite as far in LC, where you'll usually require 36 or more to get even a single stat point. Basic LC analyses for good EVs can be found here, but you're otherwise going to have to experiment a little to find the ideal.

    And finally:

    6. Leftovers is phail.

    In something like LC, you'll rarely - if ever - get enough bang for your buck out of Leftovers. The tempting Sitrus berry may look good for things needing recovery, but be warned: In D/P it recovers a flat 25% health for everything. This sad fact relegates the job of major healing item to the Oran berry, which recovers 10 HP, which is usually more than what wou'll get from a Sitrus Berry. Let's look at, say, a 30 HP Munchlax. With 30 HP, 10 would be equal to 33% or so of Munchlax's health recovered, while Sitrus Berry would recover 25% as always. The percentage gain gets even higher as you move to lower base HP than Munchlax.

    Eh? Eh? =D
     

    Dark Azelf

    ☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣
  • 7,210
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    • Seen today
    I must say i havent played this yet. Although it looks cool from what i can gather from up there.



    I smell a discussion brewing =p.
     

    BeachBoy

    S P A R K of madness
  • 8,401
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    T_S and I were talking about this the other day. Seeing as Little Cup is the only other metagame I play, due to it's lovely offensive nature. :3

    Another main point to it is that it's a slaughter fest of revenge killing, from what I've been seeing lately.

    If the Pokemon's named Tangela, Meditite, Yanma, Sneasel, or Scyther, you can't use it.

    On some sites, the only banned Pocket Monster in the Little Cup metagame is Scyther, including Smogon. o_o Some tested don't see as overwhelming. Though, I could definitely see why in those, very hard to deal with.

    edit: It's so freaking hard to find dedicated people who play the Little Cup though, same goes for sites of Little Cup. >_> It's a rare thing these days. Excellent post, Mag! :D
     
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    Ársa

    k.
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    Meditite should definatley be banned, and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it is. The others are all fine, although I think Sneasel should be shipped off, it's in a similar boat to scyther. (Although not quite as potent)

    P.S. I'm still waiting for that Little Cup RMT Beachy. :P
    P.S.S. I could go for a Little Cup battle, would you like to meet me on ABYAY's server? We could make it a battle log, get some interest going. =p

    ~T_S
     

    Aquilae

    =))))))))88888888OOOOOOOO<
  • 386
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    You persuaded me to get into Little Cup the other day =D Now I don't know where to start, with the majority of the analyses uncompleted (I feel naked without a reference book =( ).

    Should I try to make my team Diglett proof? Because I looked at the current reference materials on Smogon and it seems that Diglett can revenge-kill just about anything....
     

    BeachBoy

    S P A R K of madness
  • 8,401
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    Years
    Meditite should definatley be banned, and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it is. The others are all fine, although I think Sneasel should be shipped off, it's in a similar boat to scyther. (Although not quite as potent)

    P.S. I'm still waiting for that Little Cup RMT Beachy. :P
    P.S.S. I could go for a Little Cup battle, would you like to meet me on ABYAY's server? We could make it a battle log, get some interest going. =p

    ~T_S

    Sneasel and Cranidos (not banned anywho) seem okay to be left in though, you have to have premier physical attackers somewhere. Yanma, and Meditite I can agree with on ban. I'm still iffy on Sneasel, I don't think it's that overwhelming. Overcentralizing the LC metagame hammers that as well too. So, eh, yeah, I'll agree on the ban list. :)

    That RMT isn't coming anytime soon T_S, been changing things around too much. XD So thanks for the offer, but I'll pass.

    ps. Staryu is a beast in Little Cup for me. :D In the "OU" of LC, it really does thrive on my teams. And just to note, just because I've been playing it a couple of months doesn't mean I know a whole lot either, still learning myself. XD With a heavy lack of knowledge out there. >>; Overall, very fast paced, offensive, FUN (omg, Aquilae hate word?) metagame. =D
     
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    Magmortified

    Wherever I fly
  • 169
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    16
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    • Seen Nov 22, 2009
    I think I forgot to mention in the OP that moves like Dragon Rage and Sonicboom are banned. XP

    T_S and I were talking about this the other day. Seeing as Little Cup is the only other metagame I play, due to it's lovely offensive nature. :3

    *High-fives*

    Another main point to it is that it's a slaughter fest of revenge killing, from what I've been seeing lately.

    Yeah. Diglett and Murkrow in OU tend to do that. =P


    On some sites, the only banned Pocket Monster in the Little Cup metagame is Scyther, including Smogon.

    It's been agreed upon that the Smogon article concerning Little Cup is somewhat outdated (heck, it doesn't even mention Murkrow or Bronzor).

    Yanma was agreed upon because Speed Boost is way too good for speed-based LC. And anything that it can't kill, it can put to sleep (and most things that can take Sleep like Murkrow are usually pretty dang afraid of switching into Yanma).

    Sneasel's ability to outspeed Diglett is just insane (it doesn't even need a plus-speed nature). Plus an Attack higher than most. SD Ice Shard can kill just about any Scarfer. Bronzor's the only thing that'll ever have a decent chance at walling it, and it can be 2HKO'd if Sneasel's just a little bit lucky.

    Meditite OHKOs Bronzor without any boosts. 'Nuff said.

    Tangela's extremely hard to stop, especially with six turns (Heat Rock Sunny Day) in which it's virtually impossible to outspeed, has an huge Defense to stop priority, and a movepool which covers pretty much anything: Solarbeam, HP Fire, and AncientPower. And auto-weather's not really as common in LC.

    DeepSeaTooth was banned because Clamperl had a pretty acceptable Defense to survive priority, and could easily be passed an Agility to render sweeping incredibly easy. Though the concess as to a Trick Room sweeper wasn't broken, being passed a single Agility usually meant a total sweep.

    Excellent post, Mag! :D

    :D

    I might post up my latest LC team up on here (and possibly an LC warstory). =O
     

    ABYAY

    Advancing the Yarzan species
  • 881
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    LC's been giving me some minor interest since I see it on Doug's server so much. It's probably too quickly paced for me, but I may get into it.
     

    Arch_2008

    Hinga Dinger Durgen
  • 136
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    18
    Years
    I remember when tehre was a lv 1 league, sort of like this, exept that all pokemon were....well......lv 1.
    It's really fun to play aswell, I wouldn't mind getting into this on shoddy(perhaps a little league cup in the wireless battle stadium, *Hint Hint*)
    Is there an Item clause, because all 6 members holding an Oran berry is really annoying.
    So if we could get something like this up and going, I think it would be pretty fun.
     

    ABYAY

    Advancing the Yarzan species
  • 881
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    lol Ubers LC? Well...technically, I guess you could actually say that. Yanma, Tangela, Sneasel, Scyther (total beast though since its base stats are way too high and are equal to Scizor), and whatever else.

    I'm still thinking about LC.
     

    Espy Psyche

    General of Pokemon Defender
  • 574
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    Oh, I remember Little Cup from GSC. But here's something that might need to be LC Uber that you might not think of. Eevee.

    Eevee @ Choice Band (Ability: Adaptability)
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP
    Nature: Adamant (Atk+/SAtk-)
    - Last Resort
    -
    -
    -

    Eevee's 55 base Attack gives it a stat of 16 (16.5), so with a CB it has 24 Atk.
    Last Resort is 130 power, and Eevee gets double-STAB on it. 292 power.
    Eevee can actually OHKO Bronzor with max damage on this move. And Bronzor resists it. Broken? I think so.
     

    Magmortified

    Wherever I fly
  • 169
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    • Seen Nov 22, 2009
    Oh, I remember Little Cup from GSC. But here's something that might need to be LC Uber that you might not think of. Eevee.

    Eevee @ Choice Band (Ability: Adaptability)
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP
    Nature: Adamant (Atk+/SAtk-)
    - Last Resort
    -
    -
    -

    Eevee's 55 base Attack gives it a stat of 16 (16.5), so with a CB it has 24 Atk.
    Last Resort is 130 power, and Eevee gets double-STAB on it. 292 power.
    Eevee can actually OHKO Bronzor with max damage on this move. And Bronzor resists it. Broken? I think so.

    Tiny problems:

    1. If memory serves, Last Resort dictates that there must be another move that has been used first, so no CB if you ever plan to use Adaptibility.
    2. It's not like Gastly, Misdreavus, and Shuppet don't exist. =P
    3. Eevee is pretty dang slow. 15 Speed is kinda laughable in LC.
    4. Eevee is pretty dang frail. It's not going to take much to kill it off.
    5. iirc, Adaptibility doubles, not double-STAB. So it'd be 260. =P Just a note.
     

    Sora_8920

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    /o\ I'm thinking of getting into it, but for right now I'm too lazy to make a team. X3
     

    Espy Psyche

    General of Pokemon Defender
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    Tiny problems:

    1. If memory serves, Last Resort dictates that there must be another move that has been used first, so no CB if you ever plan to use Adaptibility. Return/Frustration are still applicable too, if I'm wrong about Last Resort.
    2. It's not like Gastly, Misdreavus, and Shuppet don't exist. =P They exist to Meditite too. And they have SE STAB against him.
    3. Eevee is pretty dang slow. 15 Speed is kinda laughable in LC. So is Meditite.
    4. Eevee is pretty dang frail. It's not going to take much to kill it off. So is Meditite.
    5. iirc, Adaptibility doubles, not double-STAB. So it'd be 260. =P Just a note. That makes it more broken. After you add STAB to that 260, it's 390. Return would be 306.

    If I made another mechanics error, tell me.
     

    Magmortified

    Wherever I fly
  • 169
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    They exist to Meditite too. And they have SE STAB against him.

    Assuming your original plan, Meditite would only have had Hi Jump Kick. >.>

    So is Meditite.

    Grab a Scarf. Congratulations, you are now faster and stronger than an Eevee with Choice Band. You'll still bulldoze over just about anything needed.

    So is Meditite.

    Got me there. Meditite has slightly higher defense, though.

    That makes it more broken. After you add STAB to that 260, it's 390. Return would be 306.

    Apparent miscommunication. Adaptibility replaces STAB. It does not stack on top of it. Henceforth, Return'd only be putting at 204; significantly less than a vaunted 292.
     

    ABYAY

    Advancing the Yarzan species
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    Allow me to clear up Adaptability.

    Last Resort's BP is...130 I believe? With just STAB (say you have Run Away for some stupid reason), you'd have 195 BP, which is x1.5. With Adaptability, the power is 2x instead of 1.5x, so Last Resort is 260 BP. Return would hit 204 BP, which is still dang impressive. Slap on a CB and smack away with whatever you can hit with.
     
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