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Old September 11th, 2008 (11:38 AM). Edited September 11th, 2008 by El Gofre.
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Hi all.

As you will all know by now, the arrival of Platinum has brought with it new forms for three pokemon- Rotom, Giratina and Arceus. The object of this thread is to make note of all the new changes between the forms and just to get discussion going on what you think of them and how they will affect the competetive metagame of DPP.
Source of all information: Serebii.net

Rotom
Spoiler:
Not everything has been revealed about rotom's 5 new formes, but all will share the same new stat line, which is as follows:
HP:50/Att:65/Def:107/SpAtt:105/SpDef:107/Spd:86
Typing is also not yet confirmed on whther or not it will change.
Changes include an increase in every stat except speed (A reduction of 5) and HP (Which follows the trend of all alternative forms retaining the same base HP).
No changes to movepools or alternative movepools have been uploaded yet, although each form is expected to have its own pool with suitably fitting moves:
Frost Forme: Blizzard
"Oven" Forme: Overheat
"Mower" Forme: Leaf Stom
"Fan" Forme: Air Slash
These are the ones that have been confirmed. Serebii's scan of the "Washer" Forme has thus far been impossible to translate.

Notable changes that will impact rotom's standing in the metagame:
-Stats: Rotom has recieved a substantial boost to most of its stats. While the extent of the attack increase's use is not yet known (It is safe to predict that a possesed lawnmower will be using some physical evil), all other boosts seem like they will be extremely benficial. Both of its defences has made a large jump to what could possibly be described as "Above average", which could aid in its role as screen support and make WoW an even better choice on it. The boost in SpAtt could make rotom a more signigicant special-sweeping threat, with a +15 SpAtt boost to a -5 Speed trade-off.
-Movepool: While the full extent is still not known, it is easy to presume that the moves gained through the various formes will mean a certainly more varied movepool, and a far more potent offensive one. Up until this point rotom has had STAB'd shadow balls as it's most threatening move- Of the moves we know, it will be gaining base 140s amongst other things. The coverage it can offer will also increase, since up until this point the more agressive specs varriant has been reliant of Hidden Power to make up for lack of it.


Shaymin
Spoiler:
Shaymin's Sky Forme has the following stat changes:
HP:100/Att:103/Def:75/SpAtt:120/SpDef:75/Spd:127
This new build is clearly more aggressive, with an increase in offensive stats and decrease in the defensive ones (With HP again remaining stationary).
The new movepool is also more agressive, with Growth taking defence curl's spot as a lvl 1 move and other more powerful moves like air slash and leaf storm being implemented.
It has also lost the ability of natural cure, to be replaced with serene grace.

Notable changes that will impact Shaymin's standing in the metagame:
-Typing: The introduction of flying type has brought mixed blessings to shaymin. The loss of bug weakness has been replaced with a rock one, it has gained a quad resist to grass and a quad weak to ice, and has developed a ground immunity in exchange for its electric resistance. This certainly shuffles what could once be classed as a counter, and has also brought about a weakness to the ever-popular stealth rock
-Stats: As above, the changes to shaymins baseline have helped in some ways but hindered in others. Obiously shaymin can now act as a more offensive threat, but the extent of changes to its movepool are not yet known and therefore its increase in potency cannot be fully judged. Defensively, the sky forme has certainly suffered. A drop in stats, combined with new problems such as a quad weak and loss of Nature Cure mean that shaymin's sky forme will have trouble being the supporting option that the land form can be.
Ability: Another mixed blessing. The double chance of a move's secondary ability will pay off in instances, for example the current movepool will certainly make use of seed flares with an 80% chance of dropping a foe's SpDef, meaning even special walls will be conquerable. However the loss of natural cure will mean that sky forme will not be able to stat absorb like its predecessor


Giratina
Spoiler:
As with all other forms, the full extent of the change between the two formes is not yet known due to unreleased movepools. However the following changes have been found:
HP:150/Att:120/Def:100/SpAtt:120/SpDef:100/Spd:90
Compared to the other new formes' stats, Giratina has not been subject to drastic ones. A +20 in both offenses and -20 in both defences still leave the stats moderately similar, but will no doubt cause a drastic change in roles.
Ability has also changed, from pressure to levitate.

Notable changes that will impact Giratina's standing on the metagame:
Stats: While still distinctively "average" when placed in context to the rest of the uber tier, the Origin Forme will still undergo a lot of changes. The more offensive build could lead to more tank-like roles being created (Moveset permitting) rather than walling, or give possibilities as a choice sweeper
Ability: The ability is a mixed blessing on Giratina. The loss of Pressure-stalling is replaced by an immunity to ground type moves, most notably earthquake. Both offer different opportunities however, and levitate could still become more appealing with the arrival of Origin Forme's full movepool


As far as I am aware, those are all the changes that have been made. Now you may discuss =]
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Old September 11th, 2008 (11:45 AM).
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@#$%@$^&$#!!!#%%@@[email protected]#@#4 SERENE GRACE!!1111!!!!!!!111!!!!1!

80 PER-FREAKIN'-CENT -2 SP.DEF DROP!!!11

60% FLINCH RATE AIR SLASH

GROWTH!!!!!!!!

And it can learn SOLAR BEAM!!!!!!


These were great changes to that creepy looking thing.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (12:14 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sims796 View Post
@#$%@$^&$#!!!#%%@@[email protected]#@#4 SERENE GRACE!!1111!!!!!!!111!!!!1!

80 PER-FREAKIN'-CENT -2 SP.DEF DROP!!!11

60% FLINCH RATE AIR SLASH

GROWTH!!!!!!!!

And it can learn SOLAR BEAM!!!!!!


These were great changes to that creepy looking thing.
Woah, I completetly overlooked air slash's flnche rate. I'll edit that in later =]

Where did you find out it can learn growth?
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Old September 11th, 2008 (12:16 PM).
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The updated Pokédex page on Serebi says it can.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (12:18 PM).
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Ohh, I missed that serebii had put up the sky forme's movepool.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (12:23 PM).
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Finally, somebody else posts. I wanted to post that I don't feel Shaymin losing Natural Cure is such a bad thing. Seed Flare has an 80% chance of lowering sp.def. BY 2 STAGES. Nobody is safe. There is no safe switch ins. ABSOLUTELY NONE!!!!

Well, that's a lie. Meta & Tenta are good, but both are stopped by HP Ground.

Besides, Natural Cure is great for defensive Shaymin. Offensive really lieks Serene Grace.

& Lawn Mower has Leaf Storm, not Blizzard. You noob.




Now, on to the most important news ever in D/P....

Vileplume gets no additional moves, but that freakin bastard Bellosom, who is great, but not as good, gets LEAF BLADE?! What the #$%@! Seriously, it already has Leaf Storm!


And why the hell did they give Lava Plume to Flareon? I freakin hate Game Freak.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (12:37 PM).
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Why not put together a Sky Forme set, sims?

Then patent it so you go down in legend.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (12:42 PM).
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Nature:Timid
Seed Flare
Air Slash
HP Ground
Growth/Substitute/solar Beam
EV: 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP


You may be wondering, why Solar Beam? Well, my answer to that is, why not?

Substitute protects it against Weavile & the like.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (12:45 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sims796 View Post
[email protected] Orb
Nature:Timid
Seed Flare
Air Slash
HP Ground
Growth/Substitute/solar Beam
EV: 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP


You may be wondering, why Solar Beam? Well, my answer to that is, why not?

Substitute protects it against Weavile & the like.
Walled by floaty steels, but i suppose that's the curse of shaymin :P
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Old September 11th, 2008 (12:46 PM).
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Ahh shaymin is now cool. once i get platinum im soft touching for a good IVd timid one,

YAY. this is going to bring a whole new high to pokemon.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (12:47 PM).
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Seed Flare handles them. Or you could just use HP Fire & call it a week.

Also, I forgot to mention, Secret Power has a 60% chance to paralyze.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (1:01 PM).
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Anybody willing to have a pop at Origin Forme Giratina?
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Old September 11th, 2008 (2:52 PM).
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I'm willing to take a risk on Rotom's Frost Form. Assuming it has same movepool as before w/ Blizzard,

Rotom @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Modest/Timid Nature
252 SPA/ 120 Def/ 132 Spe/ 6 HP

Blizzard
Thunder Wave
Thunderbolt/Discharge
Shadow Ball

Of course, this would go an a Hail team of some sort.

Origin Forme Giratina?

Giratina @ Life Orb/Choice Scarf/ CHoice Specs
Naive Nature
252 Spe/ 252 spa/ 6 HP

Draco Meteor
Aura Sphere
Shadow Ball
Earth Power

Giratina's increased offensive stats open up an oppurtunity for sweeping.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (4:00 PM).
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I feel Giratina's new forme is going to be overall less effective =/ It just doesn't hit that hard in ubers, and before, those +20 defenses helped it a lot. 120 and 100 are noticably different.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (4:27 PM).
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Is Sky Shaymin gonna outclass Toggy now? TT
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Old September 11th, 2008 (4:29 PM).
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No way. Togekiss is so damn bulky, plus it learns Nasty Plot.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (4:29 PM).
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Well considering Sky Shaymin doesn't need the para support to cause flinch-hax it frees up a moveslot for the epic seed flare, which in essence is a reverse Nasty Plot (that is lowering the Sp Def - 2 of the opponent)
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Old September 11th, 2008 (4:53 PM).
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And it has Growth, souping up his powerful Solar Beam attack. Or Seed Flare. Whatever.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (5:00 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sims796 View Post
And it has Growth, souping up his powerful Solar Beam attack. Or Seed Flare. Whatever.
Thank god it doesn't stat-up as fast as Nasty Plot

I guess a good Sky Shaymin moveset would be...
Shaymin @ Life Orb
Timid
4 HP/252 SPATK/252 SPD (or however many needed if you only want to outspeed Base 125's, I guess)
Growth
Seed Flare
Air Slash
HP Fire
Growth to boost her Special Attack, Seed Flare and Air Slash for STAB, and HP Fire to rape the steels that resist them.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (5:00 PM).
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Okay, how's this for the new Shaymin form? (I'm going to use most of sims' information and upgrade it some.)

Shaymin (Sky Form)@ Leftovers/Life Orb
Timid
252sp.atk/236spd/20HP

Seed Flare
Air Slash
HP Ground/HP Fire (your choice of dealing with Heatran/Metagross or Skarm/Zong easier)
Substitute/Leaf Storm (secondary grass move if Seed Flare runs out of PP)/Quick Attack (more on this in a minute)/Growth

"Skymin" is going to be a huge OU threat should it stay there. The last move is really a toss up. Substitute on a switch and get a moment to think. Respond accordingly when your Substitute breaks or use it to protect from Pursuit. Leaf Storm is an optional grass move to give immense power, but that sp.atk drop really hurts unless you're either suiciding or needing a little more kick to your next attack. Quick Attack may seem like a joke, but note that 103 base attack to at least cause a little bit of hurt. It's useful in downing a Sashed Weavile. Growth can be used on an anticipated switch to give your attacks even more power.

EVs give Skymin 384 speed, still enough to outrun Weavile and base 125s. HP hits 346, which has no real mark, but every hit point counts. Should you use Quick Attack, you can stuff those minor HP EVs into attack.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (5:12 PM).
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That set is fail. Where the frick is Solar Beam?

But don't forget it's subpar defenses, & being quad weak to Ice, Weavile raepz. Substitute is an option.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (5:29 PM).
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Solarbeam? Are you serious? Even in sun, Seed Flare is better because of 80% drop rate.

Skymin @ Choice Specs
252 SAttk/252 Spd/4 HP -- Timid
Seed Flare
Air Slash
HP Ground
Psychic/Leech Seed

Psychic for CROBAT YES. Alternatively, you could Leech Seed a predicted Muk or Registeel or Regice switch in, I hear they're great counters.

A few more things to add: Skymin does not get Roost which sucks since giving it to defensive Shaymin would rock. Origiratina is confirmed to get Mud-Slap, Spite (ANOTHER FORME PRESSURE STALL YESS), and Outrage. The washing machine Rotom is real and gains Hydro Pump.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (5:35 PM).
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No. It was a joke. I mean, seriously, wtf.

Seed Flare just about opens up a near 2HKO on those things if they switch into it. Assuming an 80% Sp.Def drop. Besides, your still walled by flying steels, and it ain't like she benifits from Leech Seed while using Specs.

Incidentaly, she now takes Sceptile's placeas the fastest Subseeder around. She even has more HP.
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Old September 11th, 2008 (5:40 PM).
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I don't think you need Psychic just for Crobat, I'm pretty sure Air Slash will scare it away.

I don't think Giratina gets Outrage, do you mean Draco Meteor?
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Old September 11th, 2008 (5:41 PM).
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There's been rumors of it getting Outrage. We'll just wait & see.
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