When making a fan game...

KingCharizard · Mar 23, 2010

Ok I'm curious, and here is why: when we(creators) are making fan games, people judge what they see. But, most make their judgement on what they remember from the orginal games, and compare yours to it. This is not the meaning of a fan game, as a fan game creator you have the freedom to build a game from the ground up. This means adding new features, creating new worlds, trying new things. But it seems if an idea is a little out there people dismiss it, for example I mixed 3rd gen graphics 4th gen out side, and 3rd gen inside. I find this works quite well But others dont feel the same and I'm okay with that. But every1 has an idea that I should use 4th gen graphics both indoor and outdoor, Why? because thats how D/P was? Or how HG/SS is doing? As the creator I can do with my game as I see fit, and most of you aspiring creators should do that too. Try different things toy with features, Create a whole new experience. There is always gonna be people who dont play or like a game you make, some games arent for every1 just make a game with the fire in your heart and push foward.

I also noticed when people post their thread either in the showcase or in drawing board they all have a story. Am i the only one who noticed that the pokemon games didnt really have a story untill the end? And i wouldn't call that a story just a plot twist. The whole time your capturing pokemon running into people in your way to you have to get rid of them to progress, and battling trainers. Not really a story, just some plot twists to keep you interested, but the sheer fun alone could of done that. This type of gameplay is what I hope to recapture with my current project, the fun and the adventure, not som outrageous story how a 13 year old kid is gonna save the world...

Well ladies & gentleman this was my opinion hope you enjoyed reading.

~ King Charizard

Peeky Chew · Mar 23, 2010

I aggree with most of what you're saying. When I asked if someone wanted to sprite for me they said the story "Wasn't for them", the only problem with that was that nobody seems to have noticed I have actually not posted a story in my thread. It's more an introduction, but since it says story above it no one has said anything...

I know what you mean about new ideas, and I think we all try to include them. The problem is, what most people really seem to want is Pokémon R/B/G/S/R/S/D/P. You include a new idea, people critisize it for not being inventive enough, you change it, and suddenly it isn't enough like a Poke game.

To answer the inside 3rd outside 4th, what I meant was that the characters inside should be 4th gen too. I wasn't actually saying the graphics shouldn't be. But I know others have said what you should do.

KingCharizard · Mar 23, 2010

Peeky Chew said:
I aggree with most of what you're saying. When I asked if someone wanted to sprite for me they said the story "Wasn't for them", the only problem with that was that nobody seems to have noticed I have actually not posted a story in my thread. It's more an introduction, but since it says story above it no one has said anything...

I know what you mean about new ideas, and I think we all try to include them. The problem is, what most people really seem to want is Pokémon R/B/G/S/R/S/D/P. You include a new idea, people critisize it for not being inventive enough, you change it, and suddenly it isn't enough like a Poke game.

To answer the inside 3rd outside 4th, what I meant was that the characters inside should be 4th gen too. I wasn't actually saying the graphics shouldn't be. But I know others have said what you should do.

Well i'm not making a big idea about the complaints, I just need an example of something different, and the graphic "problem" seemed to be a good idea. Yes people do still seem to want your pokemon game to be a copy of the others but with some difference, but if you do make a copy its too much like the orginal, then if you branch out and make something completely different its not a pokemon game at all, this is what I'm trying to get at, that is why i didnt release many details in my thread. I'm gonna release my game, the way I want it, while I do apprecate the suggestions and feedback people give its still my game so its my choice. Many people revamp their entire game which was pretty good because of negative feedback and thats why I'm posting this, to tell people be creative do your own thing and maybe just maybe you'll have a masterpeice...

Yuoaman · Mar 23, 2010

KingCharizard said:
Ok I'm curious, and here is why: when we(creators) are making fan games, people judge what they see. i dint no dat dey culd c in2 my cmputer... But, most make their judgement on what they remember from the orginal games, and compare yours to it. i luv playin games with mylungz! : )) This is not the meaning of a fan game, as a fan game creator you have the freedom to build a game from the ground up. so i culd be liek jebuz? This means adding new features, creating new worlds, trying new things. i wunse tride kity liter... it wuz no good : (( But it seems if an idea is a little out there people dismiss it, for example I mixed 3rd gen graphics 4th gen out side, and 3rd gen inside. i no hao u fele! i mix grafix 2gethur and i got maed fun off! butt i think it looks rlly gud. I find this works quite well But others dont feel the same and I'm okay with that. butt im not But every1 has an idea that I should use 4th gen graphics both indoor and outdoor, Why? i haz an idea to mixx kity liter an pospicles to make splozions... but dont tell none! an hu is every1, he sowns very hansum?? because thats how D/P was? wut about Dan and Pat??? Or how HG/SS is doing? harvey gold and super sammich are pretty neet felers. : D As the creator I can do with my game as I see fit, and most of you aspiring creators should do that too. noone can stop my splozions!!! Try different things toy with features, i leik teh mr.potat head toy. Create a whole new experience. There is always gonna be people who dont play or like a game you make, some games arent for every1 again with teh misteryus starnger just make a game with the fire in your heart i had dat once... my mom had to taek me 2 teh hopsitall and push foward.

I also noticed when people post their thread either in the showcase or in drawing board they all have a story. my favrit sotry is teh one about cat on the hat. :3 Am i the only one who noticed that the pokemon games didnt really have a story untill the end? And i wouldn't call that a story just a plot twist. twisting a plowt sowns hard........ The whole time your capturing pokemon running into people in your way to you have to get rid of them to progress, and battling trainers. Not really a story, just some plot twists to keep you interested, i think its a awsum stry...... but the sheer fun alone could of done that. This type of gameplay is what I hope to recapture with my current project, the fun and the adventure, not som outrageous story how a 13 year old kid is gonna save the world... u mene i cud've saevd teh world!?!?!?!?!!?!??!1

Well ladies & gentleman this was my opinion hope you enjoyed reading.

~ King Charizard

Seriously though... I don't have a clue where you're getting any of this from. These are freaking fan games. A fan game is a game you make based on a previously existing property, so why the hell wouldn't we compare a Pokemon game on other Pokemon games?

Why would you think mixing and matching graphics would be okay? It just makes you look sloppy and unprofessional. The fourth generation has a style completely of its own that is much different than that of the third generation. The tiles used in the fourth generation style are meant to represent a three-dimensional world, while the third generation tiles aren't. There's a reason most projects choose one and stick with it. And have you even looked at any of the projects posted in the Showcase? We have such an abundance of original ideas and features in this community that it makes me jealous of those who've created them.

And is it a bad thing to improve on something lacking in the official Pokemon games? If there's one bad thing to say about the Pokemon games it is their unimaginative and thin plots, and most of those in the community seem to agree with the sentiment, as there are several games with great, well thought out plots. Gameplay most definitely does not make a good game, just as graphics alone don't make a good game. You need to have all three in good measure. No one wants to play a beautiful game with amazing gameplay if there's no motivation to do so.

Also, try to use proper grammar. There are only so many times I can see you write 'every1' before I snap, and I'm pretty sure I filled my quota for the month.

KingCharizard · Mar 23, 2010

Yuoaman said:
Seriously though... I don't have a clue where you're getting any of this from. These are freaking fan games. A fan game is a game you make based on a previously existing property, so why the hell wouldn't we compare a Pokemon game on other Pokemon games?

Why would you think mixing and matching graphics would be okay? It just makes you look sloppy and unprofessional. The fourth generation has a style completely of its own that is much different than that of the third generation. The tiles used in the fourth generation style are meant to represent a three-dimensional world, while the third generation tiles aren't. There's a reason most projects choose one and stick with it. And have you even looked at any of the projects posted in the Showcase? We have such an abundance of original ideas and features in this community that it makes me jealous of those who've created them.

And is it a bad thing to improve on something lacking in the official Pokemon games? If there's one bad thing to say about the Pokemon games it is their unimaginative and thin plots, and most of those in the community seem to agree with the sentiment, as there are several games with great, well thought out plots. Gameplay most definitely does not make a good game, just as graphics alone don't make a good game. You need to have all three in good measure. No one wants to play a beautiful game with amazing gameplay if there's no motivation to do so.

Also, try to use proper grammar. There are only so many times I can see you write 'every1' before I snap, and I'm pretty sure I filled my quota for the month.

Unbelieveable,
Your a jerk, I have the right to my opinion as do you. But to do that stupid text crap because you disagree with my opinion is uncalled for and immature.

I sense hostility in your entire statement. I dont really like it but its how you feel so I understand it. I can type how I wish, if you dont like it ignore it or stay outta(out of) threads I post. This is a community, a place where people come to chill, relax and escape the real world. If you felt the pokemon games were "lacking" then why did you play and enjoy playing them, and if you haven't played any, then I dont really understand why your on a pokemon forum. No one has to make their game a certain way, but there are those who are anal and wish to do so. I intend to keep my graphics they way they are. Besides I see no issue with making a game with 4th gen outdoor and 3rd gen indoor, your on a whole new map. Chances are you wont even notice, but this isn't a convo about graphics. Its about people judging games and calling them crap on a few simple standards. Like for my game, I said I would like help, yet no one offered to help and thats cool with me. But most leave my thread with out saying anything or if they do post they mention stuff that isn't important or already has been said. Because they dont like the mixed graphics. Yeah making a fan game is about the ability to improve on what u feel the original game lacked, but it also gives you the abilty to create an entire new experience. There are no rules in game making but one, experiment. Well you feel the way you do I feel the way I do. Its our god giving right to believe in different things.

One more thing, I guess I'll have a completed sloppy unprofessional game, in a few months. Atleast i've done what most haven't that is complete my game.

I'd rather have a completed pice of crap than an unfinished beautiful game. Ever since I joined this forum people have hated(Disliked) me because I dont see things they way you do. That right there is annoying yet I simply ignore it, try it sometime.

Yuoaman · Mar 23, 2010

KingCharizard said:
Unbelieveable,
Your a jerk, I have the right to my opinion as do you. But to do that stupid text crap because you disagree with my opinion is uncalled for and immature.

I sense hostility in your entire statement. I dont really like it but its how you feel so I understand it. I can type how I wish, if you dont like it ignore it or stay outta(out of) threads I post. This is a community, a place where people come to chill, relax and escape the real world. If you felt the pokemon games were "lacking" then why did you play and enjoy playing them, and if you haven't played any, then I dont really understand why your on a pokemon forum. No one has to make their game a certain way, but there are those who are anal and wish to do so. I intend to keep my graphics they way they are. Besides I see no issue with making a game with 4th gen outdoor and 3rd gen indoor, your on a whole new map. Chances are you wont even notice, but this isn't a convo about graphics. Its about people judging games and calling them crap on a few simple standards. Like for my game, I said I would like help, yet no one offered to help and thats cool with me. But most leave my thread with out saying anything or if they do post they mention stuff that isn't important or already has been said. Because they dont like the mixed graphics. Yeah making a fan game is about the ability to improve on what u feel the original game lacked, but it also gives you the abilty to create an entire new experience. There are no rules in game making but one, experiment. Well you feel the way you do I feel the way I do. Its our god giving right to believe in different things.

One more thing, I guess I'll have a completed sloppy unprofessional game, in a few months. Atleast i've done what most haven't that is complete my game.

I'd rather have a completed pice of crap than an unfinished beautiful game. Ever since I joined this forum people have hated(Disliked) me because I dont see things they way you do. That right there is annoying yet I simply ignore it, try it sometime.

If you're allowed to be a jerk without cause, then I'm allowed to be one with.

And kudos to you for aiming to be on par with shovelware developers for the Wii!

lezebulon · Mar 23, 2010

KingChazizard is right... most projects here won't even go beyong 5%... yours included Yuoman.... at least some people should have the decency to admit it, because it's painful to see mediocre project being deemed as "awesome" while it looks it was made by 5 year old ideas and requires no programming at all

well, it doesn't help that the average age here is 13 and that we got some "PROFESSIONAL AI PROGRAMMERS" that can't spell right

Maruno · Mar 23, 2010

Yuoaman said:
If you're allowed to be a jerk without cause, then I'm allowed to be one with.

You got that backwards. As far as I can see, you started it.

Yuoaman said:
And kudos to you for aiming to be on par with shovelware developers for the Wii!

If he was one, at least he'd be paid for finishing things, even if they're rubbish. How much did 3D Realms get for not finishing Duke Nukem Forever?

The whole problem with fangames is the unpleasable fanbase. Some people are in love with HGSS (just like they were with Platinum before HGSS were released) and can't stand any deviation from them, while some people like originality. No matter what you try to do with your game, you're not going to please everybody.

I think a bigger problem around here is comparing one fangame to another, and mainly that comparison is of the graphics and features/story (i.e. not so much on how much progress there's been). I think many people around here forget that not all of us are equally talented in scripting/drawing/planning/patience/etc.

I'd much rather play a game with average graphics and great features (particularly the little things) than a mediocre one with great graphics. I prefer the little tweaks, because it shows the creator has thought to change them (e.g. the Pickup ability, how Marts work, etc.). Most of those tweaks are easy to do.

I wrote a bunch of other stuff here, but then decided to scrap it - mainly because I can't decide what exactly this thread is about.

Yuoaman · Mar 23, 2010

lezebulon said:
KingChazizard is right... most projects here won't even go beyong 5%... yours included Yuoman.... at least some people should have the decency to admit it, because it's painful to see mediocre project being deemed as "awesome" while it looks it was made by 5 year old ideas and requires no programming at all

well, it doesn't help that the average age here is 13 and that we got some "PROFESSIONAL AI PROGRAMMERS" that can't spell right

It always gives me a warm feeling when people can't glance up from what they're typing to spell my name correctly.

And how would you know about the intimate details of my projects, one of my projects had significantly more than 5% done.

Maruno said:
You got that backwards. As far as I can see, you started it.

I was referring to him and his past behavior.

Maruno said:
If he was one, at least he'd be paid for finishing things, even if they're rubbish. How much did 3D Realms get for not finishing Duke Nukem Forever?

You do understand that it costs money to make the games in the first place, right? As in: the publishers end up losing money, even if the game is completed.

Maruno said:
I'd much rather play a game with average graphics and great features (particularly the little things) than a mediocre one with great graphics. I prefer the little tweaks, because it shows the creator has thought to change them (e.g. the Pickup ability, how Marts work, etc.). Most of those tweaks are easy to do.

I don't see how this relates to the topic at hand...

Maruno said:
I wrote a bunch of other stuff here, but then decided to scrap it - mainly because I can't decide what exactly this thread is about.

It's about KingCharizard validating that he's better than the rest of us and should be exempt from criticism.

lezebulon · Mar 23, 2010

>one of my projects had significantly more than 5% done.
Ahaha
"had" is the keyword here
Enjoy never finishing a game

thepsynergist · Mar 23, 2010

I don't like that just because a new Pokemon game came out, everyone tries to upgrade their project with its new ideas and graphics. Just stick with what you are working on.

Yuoaman · Mar 23, 2010

lezebulon said:
>one of my projects had significantly more than 5% done.
Ahaha
"had" is the keyword here
Enjoy never finishing a game

AND ENJOY THE MAGNIFICENT PROGRESS YOU'VE MADE ON YOUR NONEXISTANT PROJECT. :D

Never finishing one when I was younger doesn't constitute never finishing one in the future.

KingCharizard · Mar 23, 2010

I was referring to him and his past behavior.

WARNING I'M GOING TO GET RUDE!
The key word in your sentence is PAST! If we forget the past and move foward you learn to grow!

You do understand that it costs money to make the games in the first place, right? As in: the publishers end up losing money, even if the game is completed.

Game companies dont start making money untill after a year or two after their titles hit the shelves. So yes you are correct, but they still do take risks some work out some dont.

It's about KingCharizard validating that he's better than the rest of us and should be exempt from criticism.

Please tell me where I said this. Go on i'll wait... still waiting....
Now I know i did say I like criticism, but doesn't mean i'll always listen to it or change my game because a few people dont like it.

well, it doesn't help that the average age here is 13 and that we got some "PROFESSIONAL AI PROGRAMMERS" that can't spell right

Not called for, I mis keys and sometimes hit the wrong button first, but this is a community not a damn grammar test so leave it be.

This topic was started to tell others that its okay to be creative, and dont quit working because u get a few negative comments. Also to open others up to the possibilties of change. I never wanted this crap to happen, I suck as starting topics and getting to the point, I'm sorry... Mods if you want lock this... I just wanted to vent some things and see if others get my point.

But you are right about one thing, I was a jerk when i first joined but now i've tried to help others and be nicer. I wasn't even that rude in this post...

Maruno · Mar 23, 2010

Yuoaman said:
I was referring to him and his past behavior.

And I'm referring to your current behaviour. You didn't have a reason to be a jerk in this thread.

Yuoaman said:
I don't see how this relates to the topic at hand...

Surely the topic is about fangames? KingCharizard's first post (the thread starter) contained his opinion, so why can't I add mine?

Yuoaman said:
It's about KingCharizard validating that he's better than the rest of us and should be exempt from criticism.

And you're not? Not to mention you were ~~practically~~ insulting him because he didn't think the same things you do.

thepsynergist said:
I don't like that just because a new Pokemon game came out, everyone tries to upgrade their project with its new ideas and graphics. Just stick with what you are working on.

I agree, and it's not just when there's a new game to take the tiles from. Often it's when someone releases a new tileset they've made, and everyone jumps on it.

Yuoaman said:
AND ENJOY THE MAGNIFICENT PROGRESS YOU'VE MADE ON YOUR NONEXISTANT PROJECT. :D

Never finishing one when I was younger doesn't constitute never finishing one in the future.

Right, and that can't possibly apply to anyone else, surely?

lezebulon · Mar 23, 2010

Yuoaman said:
AND ENJOY THE MAGNIFICENT PROGRESS YOU'VE MADE ON YOUR NONEXISTANT PROJECT. :D

Never finishing one when I was younger doesn't constitute never finishing one in the future.

I'm actually making a pokemon game... the difference is, I don't advertise here because I don't need to. We got our own website and don't need to make a topic in a board that has 1000s of them.

Yuoaman · Mar 23, 2010

KingCharizard said:
WARNING I'M GOING TO GET RUDE!
The key word in your sentence is PAST! If we forget the past and move foward you learn to grow!

WARNING I HAVE BEEN QUITE HONEST! If I weren't moving forward I wouldn't be able to apply what I learned in the past, now would I?

KingCharizard said:
Please tell me where I said this. Go on i'll wait... still waiting....
Now I know i did say I like criticism, but doesn't mean i'll always listen to it or change my game because a few people dont like it.

You don't need to say something outright for me to infer it. You make excuses for every single damn criticism directed at you, and several of your posts are about how everyone in the community treats you unfairly when you are given the same treatment as everyone. Or were, before you started posting that sort of crap.

Not called for, I mis keys and sometimes hit the wrong button first, but this is a community not a damn grammar test so leave it be.

Use a spell checker, then. :\

This topic was started to tell others that its okay to be creative, and dont quit working because u get a few negative comments. Also to open others up to the possibilties of change. I never wanted this crap to happen, I suck as starting topics and getting to the point, I'm sorry... Mods if you want lock this... I just wanted to vent some things and see if others get my point.

You could have posted it in another way, rather than just calling out nearly everyone in the community for how they develop their projects.

But you are right about one thing, I was a jerk when i first joined but now i've tried to help others and be nicer. I wasn't even that rude in this post...

But then you posted this thread.

I'm actually making a pokemon game... the difference is, I don't advertise here because I don't need to. We got our own website and don't need to make a topic in a board that has 1000s of them.

Cool story bro.

How do you expect to get fans without having it where others would have a chance of seeing it?

lezebulon · Mar 23, 2010

>Cool story bro.

>How do you expect to get fans without having it where others would have a chance of seeing it?

Are you aware that there are other places on the internet that like pokemons jsut as much and also that a *good* project (read, not pokemon raptor) could generate its on fans?

I'd be pretty sad to have for only fanbase the 12 year olds that dwelve here and deem everything "awesome" and that already are pokemon nerds... in that way I support the original post from kingcharizard

KingCharizard · Mar 23, 2010

Yuoaman I believe you have a way to find a problem with everything, I'll leave it at that.

You don't need to say something outright for me to infer it. You make excuses for every single damn criticism directed at you

I try to explain why something was a certain way. I also ask for valid points, if your gonna say something doesn't work usually someone asks why.

Yuoaman · Mar 23, 2010

lezebulon said:
>Cool story bro.

>How do you expect to get fans without having it where others would have a chance of seeing it?

Are you aware that there are other places on the internet that like pokemons jsut as much and also that a *good* project (read, not pokemon raptor) could generate its on fans?

I doubt other places could like 'teh pokemons' as much as this place. And if you think depending on people stumbling across you in a Google search is a good way to gain on fans, then good luck. Be sure to avoid those off fans, though... they can be quite a pain.

And there are quote tags on this forum.

KingCharizard said:
Yuoaman I believe you have a way to find a problem with everything, I'll leave it at that.

I try to explain why something was a certain way. I also ask for valid points, if your gonna say something doesn't work usually someone asks why.

I don't have problems with everything, I can't find anything that's not to like about Oreos...

But even after hearing these problems you shrug it off and continue with what you're doing, you don't take the criticism to heart.

lezebulon · Mar 23, 2010

Yuoaman said:
I doubt other places could like 'teh pokemons' as much as this place. And if you think depending on people stumbling across you in a Google search is a good way to gain on fans, then good luck.

I'm not looking to gain on fans... that's not how making a game works... We are making our game, got a team of a dozen active persons and are on a good way to finish this game (which is in itself an achievement compared to here). I'm only registered here to ask for help about the starter's kit and I'm astonished at how 90% of the questions would be solved by someone who has any knowledge of programming at all, but that's another issue. We already got an interesting and active fanbase, that's way better than this one. Do you really think this is a like the only place on the internet where there are pokemon fans? Even though that sure is the place where there are the most annoying kids complaining and not be able to do anything much than a let's play (including you)

>Be sure to avoid those off fans, though... they can be quite a pain.
I... don't even know if it's supposed to be ironic or not

When making a fan game...

More options

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire

Peeky Chew

Master of Palettes

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire

Yuoaman

I don't know who I am either.

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire

Yuoaman

I don't know who I am either.

lezebulon

Maruno

Lead Dev of Pokémon Essentials

Yuoaman

I don't know who I am either.

lezebulon

thepsynergist

Vinemon: Sauce Edition Programmer and Composer

Yuoaman

I don't know who I am either.

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire

Maruno

Lead Dev of Pokémon Essentials

lezebulon

Yuoaman

I don't know who I am either.

lezebulon

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire

Yuoaman

I don't know who I am either.

lezebulon