10 Badges?!

[Calder]

Remember the (titans?) episode where Team Rocket steals Ash's badges? They stole alot of different trainer's badges and they were all unique, in the anime there are more than 8 alot more, but you only need 8 of them to enter the champion league, so ash choose those 8 and Gary wanted to do more...Ever wonder why the gym leaders don't have lines? If there were only 8 and you needed 8 to enter the championship there would be a huge line at every gym.

 

[CliveKoopa]

Umm, he did battle him before Roxanne, but the match was interrupted, and after the blastoff, Norman explained that the first gym was actually supposed to be Roxanne's Gym, and that he is supposed to be fought later (implying that there is indeed a set order.

Yes but that battle didn't count as it wasn't an official battle. Ash only had Pikachu at the time and both Norman and Max said that the Petalburg gym rules were 3 on 3. If Ash had three pokemon at that time, he may have battled Norman officially before Roxanne and got his Balance Badge before the Stone Badge.

 

[Mew~]

Well in the anime It seems there are more then 8 badges in each region! Look here and scroll down to anime for more details: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Badge

 

[CliveKoopa]

I don't see why a trainer should battle gyms in a specific order in Hoenn or any other region for that matter. What difference does it make? And anyway, what if the trainer comes from Evergrande City or Sootopolis City. How would you expect him or her to go all the way to Rustboro City just so he/she can earn his/her first badge? Sometimes the games and the anime too seem to assume that every trainer must come from Pallet Town or Littleroot Town, etc when its quite obvious that trainers can come from anywhere.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Yes but that battle didn't count as it wasn't an official battle. Ash only had Pikachu at the time and both Norman and Max said that the Petalburg gym rules were 3 on 3. If Ash had three pokemon at that time, he may have battled Norman officially before Roxanne and got his Balance Badge before the Stone Badge.

Well, the way he said it, or at least the way the plot summary worded it, made it seem as though Ash had to actually face Norman much later on than he should have, even if he had 3 pokemon. I'll quote the part in question:

Later back in front of Norman's gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City; they'll have to get through Petalburg Forest to get there though.

If there wasn't a set order in Hoenn, why would he even explain that he's a gym leader that Ash is supposed to fight later on. I mean, that would imply that there is a set order.

 

[CliveKoopa]

If there wasn't a set order in Hoenn, why would he even explain that he's a gym leader that Ash is supposed to fight later on. I mean, that would imply that there is a set order.

Read my last post on this. Not every trainer comes from Littleroot Town and its unfair for a trainer from as far away as Sootopolis City for example to have to travel all the way to Rustboro City before even going for any gym badges.

 

[Alpha_Spike]

In the anime there are many gyms within a region. The games and Ash's journey's only cover the required minimum of 8 based from what the Manga showed. Trainers merely get the badges they know of and until Gary told of how many he had Ash thought there was only the 8 he knew of. There is also a special badge only gotten from an exam that works like a total of 8 granting full access to the Pokemon League. Also Ash had to get the badges he did because they are the ones known by all the fans. Imagine the confusion if you got the game and all badges in it were different to the anime or manga that you watched before playing the game? It is also possible that there are a set number of gyms like say about 1 for each elemental type but each gym has many different looking badges within its own gym.

I don't see why a trainer should battle gyms in a specific order in Hoenn or any other region for that matter. What difference does it make? And anyway, what if the trainer comes from Evergrande City or Sootopolis City. How would you expect him or her to go all the way to Rustboro City just so he/she can earn his/her first badge? Sometimes the games and the anime too seem to assume that every trainer must come from Pallet Town or Littleroot Town, etc when its quite obvious that trainers can come from anywhere.

Trainers may come from different towns but they have to start at the same place if I remember rightly. I think it was mentioned in the anime that trainers must go to the lab in a set town in order to get their pokedex and starter. Though I might be getting the Manga and the anime mixed up lol

 

[The Girl Once named Tracie]

Well, we know by the Kaz and Yaz gyms that there are unoffical pokemon gyms, and who knows how many of those there are? Maybe Gary just went to a bunch of those, and won gym badges from them and their ways.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Read my last post on this. Not every trainer comes from Littleroot Town and its unfair for a trainer from as far away as Sootopolis City for example to have to travel all the way to Rustboro City before even going for any gym badges.

Well, then, how do you explain this line:

"Later back in front of Norman's gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City; they'll have to get through Petalburg Forest to get there though. "

If there was not a set order, he would not have suggested something like that.

And besides, that still doesn't explain why Paul had challenged Roark first and not Maylene (or whoever the Veilstone GL was when he arrived), Crasher Wake, Byron, Candice, Volkner, or any of those guys (I definitely know he would have challenged them first if there truly wasn't a set order in Sinnoh.)

 

[Myles]

Doesn't Norman in the games say that you need four badges to challenge him? And we know there's no set order in the games. He obviously just doesn't want to battle anyone who's too weak or something.

 

[Alpha_Spike]

Well, then, how do you explain this line:

"Later back in front of Norman's gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City; they'll have to get through Petalburg Forest to get there though. "

If there was not a set order, he would not have suggested something like that.

And besides, that still doesn't explain why Paul had challenged Roark first and not Maylene (or whoever the Veilstone GL was when he arrived), Crasher Wake, Byron, Candice, Volkner, or any of those guys (I definitely know he would have challenged them first if there truly wasn't a set order in Sinnoh.)

Paul actually challenged Kanto before starting in Sinnoh so its possible that he started at Oreburgh due to that. Plus it was said to Ash that his best bet for getting an 8th badge would have been Volkner implying that he could have challenged another gym

 

[CliveKoopa]

I still don't understand why there had to be a set order in the anime. In the games, it makes sense but not in the anime. It shouldn't matter what order gyms are battled in especially if you live far away from Rustboro City. When you get eight badges, you still end up going to the Hoenn League no matter where you start or what gyms you go to.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

I still don't understand why there had to be a set order in the anime. In the games, it makes sense but not in the anime. It shouldn't matter what order gyms are battled in especially if you live far away from Rustboro City. When you get eight badges, you still end up going to the Hoenn League no matter where you start or what gyms you go to.

Hey, I actually want a freely-done gym route rather than a set order in the Anime. In fact, Ash chose the game route purely by his own choice, and not because of anyone else in Johto. Hoenn, however, changed all that with Norman's statement to Ash. If the writers wanted to maintain that there is no set order, Don't... Have... Norman... Say... To... Ash... That... He... Is... Supposed... To... Be... Fought... Later... On!! By saying that he should be fought later on, that would contradict the fact that the gyms in the anime don't have a set order. The same goes for Paul going to Oreburgh first even though he could easily challenge the other coastline gyms wereever he disembarked (It's heavily implied that he didn't challenge the Veilstone Gym if he had disembarked there). To me, the Gym Leaders should not say ANYTHING that would imply that there is a set order. If they only suggest which gym to go to next, fine, but if they say they are supposed to be fought later on, then no, just no. And for trainers like Paul, have him say something about challenging the other gyms when he is at Oreburgh. See what I'm getting at?!

 

[CliveKoopa]

Hey, I actually want a freely-done gym route rather than a set order in the Anime. In fact, Ash chose the game route purely by his own choice, and not because of anyone else in Johto. Hoenn, however, changed all that with Norman's statement to Ash. If the writers wanted to maintain that there is no set order, Don't... Have... Norman... Say... To... Ash... That... He... Is... Supposed... To... Be... Fought... Later... On!! By saying that he should be fought later on, that would contradict the fact that the gyms in the anime don't have a set order. The same goes for Paul going to Oreburgh first even though he could easily challenge the other coastline gyms wereever he disembarked (It's heavily implied that he didn't challenge the Veilstone Gym if he had disembarked there). To me, the Gym Leaders should not say ANYTHING that would imply that there is a set order. If they only suggest which gym to go to next, fine, but if they say they are supposed to be fought later on, then no, just no. And for trainers like Paul, have him say something about challenging the other gyms when he is at Oreburgh. See what I'm getting at?!

My thoughts exactly. The same goes for the PokeNAV saying where the next gym is like when it said that Dewford Island was the next gym even though that's miles away from Rustboro City and Lavaridge Town is much closer. Professor Birch then makes a comment saying Ash should be near Slateport City by now in Seeing Is Believing or an episode near to that one.

Speaking of Paul, it seems that Professor Rowan is unfamiliar with him when they first meet, which suggests that Paul did not get his Turtwig from him nor his Pokedex.

 

[Alpha_Spike]

To the two posters above:

Paul wouldn't have started at the normal area for Sinnoh because he had challenged Kanto and all that BEFORE doing Sinnoh. So when he got around to doing Sinnoh its possible that he started at Oreburgh cause he was close to their when he returned. Or are you both unable to have read my post about it? I clearly stated that Paul didn't challenge Sinnoh first thus meaning he left his hometown(Veilstone) and went to Kanto before he took on anyone in Sinnoh.

As for the statement from Norman its possible he believed his power to be greater then other gyms and thus thought Ash wasn't a worthy enough opponent at his current skill level. Lately it seems people are reading too much into comments made in the show that can have multiple meanings such as that Norman one.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Paul wouldn't have started at the normal area for Sinnoh because he had challenged Kanto and all that BEFORE doing Sinnoh. So when he got around to doing Sinnoh its possible that he started at Oreburgh cause he was close to their when he returned. Or are you both unable to have read my post about it? I clearly stated that Paul didn't challenge Sinnoh first thus meaning he left his hometown(Veilstone) and went to Kanto before he took on anyone in Sinnoh.

If Sandgem was the only Port City in Sinnoh, then I'd agree with you. However, we also have to take into account that he could have disembarked at Veilstone, Sunyshore, Canalave, Snowpoint, and Pastoria, as well. Want to know what they all have in common? They are both Port cities, and cities that have a Gym located there. Heck, 5/8ths of Sinnoh's gyms are on coastal cities/ports. Yes, Paul may have started in Kanto instead of his home region, but that still doesn't explain why he chose Oreburgh first (especially seeing how he could have easily challenged the above five gyms if he disembarked in the five respective cities.).

As for the statement from Norman its possible he believed his power to be greater then other gyms and thus thought Ash wasn't a worthy enough opponent at his current skill level. Lately it seems people are reading too much into comments made in the show that can have multiple meanings such as that Norman one.

Ash had already trounced a few gym leaders before he even met the guy. Heck, statistics wise, he outranks Norman. That isn't an apt explaination, especially seeing how he loses just as much to them as his so called inferior gym leader accomplaces lost to challengers.

 

[Alpha_Spike]

If Sandgem was the only Port City in Sinnoh, then I'd agree with you. However, we also have to take into account that he could have disembarked at Veilstone, Sunyshore, Canalave, Snowpoint, and Pastoria, as well. Want to know what they all have in common? They are both Port cities, and cities that have a Gym located there. Heck, 5/8ths of Sinnoh's gyms are on coastal cities/ports. Yes, Paul may have started in Kanto instead of his home region, but that still doesn't explain why he chose Oreburgh first (especially seeing how he could have easily challenged the above five gyms if he disembarked in the five respective cities.).



Ash had already trounced a few gym leaders before he even met the guy. Heck, statistics wise, he outranks Norman. That isn't an apt explaination, especially seeing how he loses just as much to them as his so called inferior gym leader accomplaces lost to challengers.

Veilstone isn't a port city its in the middle of land on all four sides. And ever stop and think that Paul traveled back to Sinnoh much like Ash? It is also possible that Paul started at Oreburgh because he felt that would be a good place to challenge first.

Its true Ash had fought a few gyms and won badges before hand but when he left to Hoenn Ash only took Pikachu and that set him back at a beginner status.

To be completely honest about this whole topic: No one knows the truth. We just know what we see but for all we know what we see is wrong. How can we know the workings of the world in the anime? Can you for certain say that there is a set course or anything? Also if you were to cross reference the show with Platinum you would realise there is no set order cause the gyms are mixed up. Maybe Normal said what he did because maybe there are groups of 8 gym leaders and you have to battle them in those groups or maybe he was trying to get Ash to take a certain path. We don't know so this topic is really a waste of time. All we can do is say "Well there are different badges within a region so there must be more then 8 but who knows what order a person can do them in except the writers"

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Veilstone isn't a port city its in the middle of land on all four sides. And ever stop and think that Paul traveled back to Sinnoh much like Ash? It is also possible that Paul started at Oreburgh because he felt that would be a good place to challenge first.

I think you're mixing up Veilstone with Hearthome. This is Veilstone:

Notice the body of water at the top.

Besides, even if that were true, that still doesn't explain the whole badge case issue (where they, you know, actually indented the badges in such a way where it is impossible to do any other badges than the eight on there?)

Its true Ash had fought a few gyms and won badges before hand but when he left to Hoenn Ash only took Pikachu and that set him back at a beginner status.

Pikachu was experienced, as well, though. It's been in the same number of leagues as him.

To be completely honest about this whole topic: No one knows the truth. We just know what we see but for all we know what we see is wrong. How can we know the workings of the world in the anime? Can you for certain say that there is a set course or anything? Also if you were to cross reference the show with Platinum you would realise there is no set order cause the gyms are mixed up. Maybe Normal said what he did because maybe there are groups of 8 gym leaders and you have to battle them in those groups or maybe he was trying to get Ash to take a certain path. We don't know so this topic is really a waste of time. All we can do is say "Well there are different badges within a region so there must be more then 8 but who knows what order a person can do them in except the writers"

Well, that I can agree with, this is pointless.

 

[Alpha_Spike]

I think you're mixing up Veilstone with Hearthome. This is Veilstone:

Notice the body of water at the top.

Besides, even if that were true, that still doesn't explain the whole badge case issue (where they, you know, actually indented the badges in such a way where it is impossible to do any other badges than the eight on there?)



Pikachu was experienced, as well, though. It's been in the same number of leagues as him.



Well, that I can agree with, this is pointless.

Ok so three sides. Still doesn't mean its a Port City. As for the badge case please refer to the ending of my last post where it says "Maybe they have a set group of 8". Also if you notice Barry's 8 look almost the same but are different so its possible that the indent is actually in a foam and they just use the most common 8 badges from that region.

Yes it is pointless. This will be my last post on this matter

 

[Myles]

I don't think the whole level system is so much in place in the anime (yes, I know that episode) or at least known about. your specific 'strength' can't be told at a glance.

And don't forget, they didn't just let Ash whip straight into the league without any badges just because he's 'powerful'. Norman in the games requires a certain amount of badges to battle him and the same in the anime. This is abnormal though, at least in the games. Since we've seen in every single generation that in the games, the Gym order doesn't have to be exactly correct.

To be completely honest about this whole topic: No one knows the truth. We just know what we see but for all we know what we see is wrong. How can we know the workings of the world in the anime? Can you for certain say that there is a set course or anything? Also if you were to cross reference the show with Platinum you would realise there is no set order cause the gyms are mixed up. Maybe Normal said what he did because maybe there are groups of 8 gym leaders and you have to battle them in those groups or maybe he was trying to get Ash to take a certain path. We don't know so this topic is really a waste of time. All we can do is say "Well there are different badges within a region so there must be more then 8 but who knows what order a person can do them in except the writers"

You act as if we're running blind. There's heaps of information to wield through and analyze.