The Problem With OC

[Alex]

First I'd like to state that I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, especially not LiveWire's, and I commend his work in trying to clean up and straighten out Other Chat. However I think there's a real problem with the forum, and it's been around since I've joined PC. Other Chat is one forum that encompasses any and all discussion that doesn't pertain to Pokemon, or user-generated material. That leaves a ton of topics.

Instead of trying to cut down on redundancy threads and the sheer amount of topics in the forum itself by locking them and warning members, I think the threads need to be categorized in terms of topics. I've noticed a few dominating topics in the forum and suggest we break OC into numerous subforums to regulate the flow of topics and separate them.

The subforums I've considered are "American Politics & Issues," "International Politics & Issues," "LGBT Discussion" and "Philosophical Discussion."

So, just to put things into perspective, Zet's "lol u mad republicans?" thread or Igiko's Web discussions on abortion thread would fit into American Politics & Issues. Suicune™'s "Huge Eruption on the way?" or LiveWire's Global Warming thread would be placed into International Politics & Issues. LGBT Discussion would be home to the Jamie Hubley thread as well as the late Tim Horton's thread. Philosophical Discussion would encompass anything from the "Your View of God" thread by dinosaurodon to Toujours' new "Will Humans Evolve Further?" thread.

And the way I see it, anything that doesn't quite fit under any of these categories can stay within Other Chat's general chat forum, which would be home to our beloved DCC and, for example, FreakyLocz's "Woman Sues Cap'n Crunch" thread.

While I'm aware that this would be a radical expansion of our humble OC forum, consider how many subforums some of the most frequented boards on PC have. Emulation is a powerhouse with eight subforums to itself. Second in line are a draw between Game Development, and the Art Gallery with four subforums to themselves. With my suggestion to Other Chat, it would have a total of five forums, including Celebrations. I don't think that's much out of the norm.

If there are any that disagree with my suggested expansion of Other Chat, please do not hesitate to voice your opinion. I realize I'm stepping into Administrative decisions here but I figured I'd pitch a proposition.

 

[Sydian]

I just wanted to voice my agreement on this. Yeah, it'd be a lot of subforums, but it wouldn't be much different than it is now, in terms of threads and activity. It'd just be cleaner and more organized, the way I see it. That and it might help define the line of what goes in OVP and what goes in OC...even the difference between C&T and C&M and OC too, since those seem to be getting mixed up, due to certain news about the former two I mentioned. Point is, I agree with this.

 

[Oryx]

I like this idea but tbh I wouldn't think an entire forum just for LGBT discussion would be warranted. While PC does have a rather large LGBT community, if you look back on the threads involving it in OC, even including locked threads there are 5-6 on the first two pages. Considering each page is 50 threads, I'm back to the beginning of September on last post and not even 1/10 of the way through one page of a forum.

Similarly, there are 20-25 (depending on how you count some of the threads) threads on the first two pages related to American politics. I would combine the international one with the American one to make one larger one, because while political threads do make up a large portion of OC, when you actually crunch the numbers it's not too huge. I always thought there should just be a "recent news discussion" subforum tbh. :x

 

[Sydian]

Then perhaps instead of LGBT, there can be the subforums "Politics", "Social Issues", and "Philosophical", and the adorable Celebrations ofc. Social Issues would be the news threads on the things like a major suicide because of x thing that happened to this person, exotic animals on the loose in Ohio, restaurants turning so and so down because of x thing they are/did. Things like that that are getting cracked down on so hard lately.

 

[Nihilego]

I'm also gonna say that I agree with this. I really like OC but I find it kinda difficult to post in sometimes, mainly because of how there are threads for everything everywhere. It'd be really nice to just settle into a single subforum, in this case it'd probably be Philosophical Discussion for me, rather than digging through everything. I also think that, as this would set out some really clear boundaries for where to post stuff, it could generate more activity since people would be more confident posting threads probably. I think places like Emulation, for example, have shown that having a large number of subforums for fairly specific things can definitely work.

 

[Oryx]

Then perhaps instead of LGBT, there can be the subforums "Politics", "Social Issues", and "Philosophical", and the adorable Celebrations ofc. Social Issues would be the news threads on the things like a major suicide because of x thing that happened to this person, exotic animals on the loose in Ohio, restaurants turning so and so down because of x thing they are/did. Things like that that are getting cracked down on so hard lately.

I like that a lot! This do this right here please.

 

[Morkula]

Or we could just let OC be a really active general discussion forum like it's meant to be rather than splitting it off into a bunch of inactive subforums?

 

[Melody]

I'd think all the threads about LGBT issues and such would go under "Social issues" anyway, if it didn't go under "Political issues".


Now, to be the little raincloud, I don't believe that OC is quite that big yet. Surely, OC has flourished under Live, I give that much. But I do not believe it has grown so miserably furry, and such sub-forums would simply serve to confuse newcomers. K.I.S.S. most definitely applies here.

Furthermore, I believe that if OC needs any new subforum it should simply be a 'Debates' forum. For all of the above threads which tend to get hot and bothered with opinions, and leave news-like threads, like "Woman sues because crunch berries aren't real..." in OC unless they get serious discussion. THEN promote them to Debate section. There's a real distinction between the type of discussion one of those news-y threads and a thread specifically started to debate a topic, and such. The other threads which don't get as heated can stay out in OC itself.

If further classification of debate threads is needed, then do so by adding subforums within it. It's doable.

 

[countryemo]

Hm great idea as much as I'm not sure how the subforums will work, but it seems pretty nice and that'll it work out great.

Hm better yet, to still clean it up but keep it active we can have the.. forgot, lol. like:
[News] Thread name
[Politics] Thread name
[Debate] Thread name
[LGBT] Thread name

 

[Sydian]

Or we could just let OC be a really active general discussion forum like it's meant to be rather than splitting it off into a bunch of inactive subforums?

This wouldn't affect the activity negatively, imo. If you look at the first page or two of OC, nearly all of those threads fit into one of the suggested subforums.

 

[Livewire]

I'd be perfectly fine with bringing some more concrete definition to OC. Too vague, too many possibilities.

 

[Alex]

Yes, perhaps a dedicated LGBT subforum is a little too specific. Social Issues sounds much better in my opinion. And a dedicated Politics subforum instead of split between countries. I just suggested an American Politics subforum because most of our users are from the USA. That's the power of brainstorming!

Or we could just let OC be a really active general discussion forum like it's meant to be rather than splitting it off into a bunch of inactive subforums?

I'm sorry but "inactive" is the last thing these subforums will be. I'm trying to ease LiveWire's job, in case you don't realize it.

 

[Ineffable~]

Then perhaps instead of LGBT, there can be the subforums "Politics", "Social Issues", and "Philosophical", and the adorable Celebrations ofc. Social Issues would be the news threads on the things like a major suicide because of x thing that happened to this person, exotic animals on the loose in Ohio, restaurants turning so and so down because of x thing they are/did. Things like that that are getting cracked down on so hard lately.

When this was said, somewhere far far away there was a loud click noise.

I agree with all this. I think it's a really good idea. Whenever I feel like posting in Other Chat in some fun random thread (which is often) I have to root through a myriad of political threads that seem to fill up the entire page. That's probably the only reason I post there almost none of the time rather than all of the time.

Well, maybe not the only reason...

 

[Melody]

Yes, perhaps a dedicated LGBT subforum is a little too specific. Social Issues sounds much better in my opinion. And a dedicated Politics subforum instead of split between countries. I just suggested an American Politics subforum because most of our users are from the USA. That's the power of brainstorming!




I'm sorry but "inactive" is the last thing these subforums will be. I'm trying to ease LiveWire's job, in case you don't realize it.

I understand you're just trying to help, and he may not care, but I do not believe that separating these threads from the rest is really going to help OC in the long run. I know Live already does a fine job usually, and I don't believe he needs more subforums to complicate matters for him. K.I.S.S. or else he'll be flooded with a wave of nubcaeks so green and wet behind the ears they won't know HOW to post in OC.

When that happens OC will go down the tubes and it's activity will go with it. Besides, OC is anything but flooded as it is now, it's thriving beautifully and you don't have to look too hard for any active thread worth talking about. There aren't 50 pages of threads that have been posted in by someone in the last month like there commonly is in emulation or sections like it. The index of OC in it's default view, which prunes threads old enough to get closed if you post in anyway, is only two pages in length. I'm sorry if you use an alternate view and got an inflated count, but that's how it is. OC is thriving, not bursting at the seams and it hardly needs additional subforums. We should give Live a chance to show his skills as a moderator before we go about trying to "Help" him too much. He's kind of prideful anyway, so implying he needs help doesn't help your position much anyway...as anyone who knows or has dealt with him knows he can occasionally be quite headstrong and/or independent.

 

[Oryx]

I understand you're just trying to help, and he may not care, but I do not believe that separating these threads from the rest is really going to help OC in the long run. I know Live already does a fine job usually, and I don't believe he needs more subforums to complicate matters for him. K.I.S.S. or else he'll be flooded with a wave of nubcaeks so green and wet behind the ears they won't know HOW to post in OC.

When that happens OC will go down the tubes and it's activity will go with it. Besides, OC is anything but flooded as it is now, it's thriving beautifully and you don't have to look too hard for any active thread worth talking about. There aren't 50 pages of threads that have been posted in by someone in the last month like there commonly is in emulation or sections like it. The index of OC in it's default view, which prunes threads old enough to get closed if you post in anyway, is only two pages in length. I'm sorry if you use an alternate view and got an inflated count, but that's how it is. OC is thriving, not bursting at the seams and it hardly needs additional subforums. We should give Live a chance to show his skills as a moderator before we go about trying to "Help" him too much. He's kind of prideful anyway, so implying he needs help doesn't help your position much anyway...as anyone who knows or has dealt with him knows he can occasionally be quite headstrong and/or independent.

He's already said he would be fine with this idea, a few posts ago. o_O

It may seem simple right now for you, but there have been multiple people posting here saying that the way OC is now is keeping them from posting and having more concrete sections would make them post in OC more. In this case, it's a matter of having just one big section seems simple to you, but to everyone else who's agreeing in this thread it's much simpler to understand when it's more specific to different issues.

 

[Livewire]

We should give Live a chance to show his skills as a moderator before we go about trying to "Help" him too much. He's kind of prideful anyway, so implying he needs help doesn't help your position much anyway...as anyone who knows or has dealt with him knows he can occasionally be quite headstrong and/or independent.

I've been at it for nearly 11 months. I don't need to prove much else.

And for the record, I did ask for help.

 

[Sydian]

I understand you're just trying to help, and he may not care, but I do not believe that separating these threads from the rest is really going to help OC in the long run. I know Live already does a fine job usually, and I don't believe he needs more subforums to complicate matters for him. K.I.S.S. or else he'll be flooded with a wave of nubcaeks so green and wet behind the ears they won't know HOW to post in OC.

I just want to point out that there are even members that have been here for years that don't know how to post in OC. So it's not just "nubcaeks," it's veterans too.

 

[Alex]

I understand you're just trying to help, and he may not care, but I do not believe that separating these threads from the rest is really going to help OC in the long run. I know Live already does a fine job usually, and I don't believe he needs more subforums to complicate matters for him. K.I.S.S. or else he'll be flooded with a wave of nubcaeks so green and wet behind the ears they won't know HOW to post in OC.

When that happens OC will go down the tubes and it's activity will go with it. Besides, OC is anything but flooded as it is now, it's thriving beautifully and you don't have to look too hard for any active thread worth talking about. There aren't 50 pages of threads that have been posted in by someone in the last month like there commonly is in emulation or sections like it. The index of OC in it's default view, which prunes threads old enough to get closed if you post in anyway, is only two pages in length. I'm sorry if you use an alternate view and got an inflated count, but that's how it is. OC is thriving, not bursting at the seams and it hardly needs additional subforums. We should give Live a chance to show his skills as a moderator before we go about trying to "Help" him too much. He's kind of prideful anyway, so implying he needs help doesn't help your position much anyway...as anyone who knows or has dealt with him knows he can occasionally be quite headstrong and/or independent.

Errr, I think we would notice an increase in user activity if we regulated the topics. Just because it's not bursting at the seams does not mean we can't take initiative to make it better. Prevention is the key.

Nope, creating subforums will only ease a poster's intention. The only way activity can be diminished is by banning certain thread topics. If I were to be suggesting that we ban all political discussion in OC, THAT would be suggesting to lower OC's activity. Creating subforums will only help someone find a certain board they want to post in. I know a lot of people bring their philosophical thoughts to PC to share and discuss, however to find those types of threads you have to scroll through a ton of other topics that you just aren't interested in seeing. What bad could having subforums dedicated to Politics, Social Issues and Philosophical Discussions do? You're dreaming if you think it'll deaden the forum. I can't imagine it would do that in any type of scenario. The only way it would happen is if the whole forum are a bunch of sheep and hesitate on posting threads in the new subforums due to lack of threads. I mean, really.

Also, don't speak as if you know or are LiveWire. Who do you think you are.

 

[Melody]

I've been at it for nearly 11 months. I don't need to prove much else.

And for the record, I did ask for help.

Never said you had to. Just saying that if you had not asked for help, it would be wise for them to give you the space to get your job done. I also probably didn't get the memo that you were asking for help again. You so kindly told me to buzz off last time I tried. :P

I just want to point out that there are even members that have been here for years that don't know how to post in OC. So it's not just "nubcaeks," it's veterans too.

True enough.

Errr, I think we would notice an increase in user activity if we regulated the topics. Just because it's not bursting at the seams does not mean we can't take initiative to make it better. Prevention is the key.

Nope, creating subforums will only ease a poster's intention. The only way activity can be diminished is by banning certain thread topics. If I were to be suggesting that we ban all political discussion in OC, THAT would be suggesting to lower OC's activity. Creating subforums will only help someone find a certain board they want to post in. I know a lot of people bring their philosophical thoughts to PC to share and discuss, however to find those types of threads you have to scroll through a ton of other topics that you just aren't interested in seeing. What bad could having subforums dedicated to Politics, Social Issues and Philosophical Discussions do? You're dreaming if you think it'll deaden the forum. I can't imagine it would do that in any type of scenario. The only way it would happen is if the whole forum are a bunch of sheep and hesitate on posting threads in the new subforums due to lack of threads. I mean, really.

Also, don't speak as if you know or are LiveWire. Who do you think you are.

I don't believe I have to think I'm anybody special to know how Live has acted in my eyes. Don't go taking up such a defensive posture because I'm running D.A. on this idea. If you have evidence to present to refute my statement, you may, or you can just as simply ignore it and continue assuming I don't know him that well. But that assumption should not invalidate any of my arguments on that front.

Personally I don't think prevention is key at this point at all. OC is not suffering. Live does a pretty good job.
Like I said in my initial post, if we do add any subforums, why not just lump all the debate topics into one big "Debate" subforum? Let the debating folks of OC worry about figuring out which thread is where. I personally don't want to have to browse through 3-4 different forums to cover the various topics I'm interested in...it's too much of a hassle for a small handful of threads. I could stomach ONE subforum more in OC to segregate more serious debate-style topics from the lighter-hearted ones though.

I never really said we should ban any topics in OC, so don't go putting words or arguments in my mouth either.

The only way it would happen is if the whole forum are a bunch of sheep and hesitate on posting threads in the new subforums due to lack of threads. I mean, really.

One of the first things you must learn when you really get to PC is that there really ARE a lot of sheep on PC. In fact it's the same flock of sheep that's complaining because we DARE have intelligent discussions in OC. It's the same flock that B&Ms about a little bit of scrolling and scanning of a very small two page index.


I'm sorry but I really DON'T think this sort of thing is necessary at all. You all can just SCROLL and LIVE WITH IT. Because seriously, scrolling? What kind of argument is that?

 

[Aquacorde]

Hmm... I actually think a division like this would be helpful. Speaking as someone who doesn't much post in OC, I find that part of it is just that... everything is all over the place, like people have been saying. If it were a bit more organized, perhaps I could find something I would know about or like to post in more easily? And I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe there are others who feel the same. And if you had even ten more people with that mindset, you'd see an increase in activity overall, would you not? Maybe each section individually would look a bit dead sometimes, but as a whole they'd be booming.

> skim'd thread, formulated opinion, here you go. sorry if it's been said lol