The Mega Champion
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Maybe they shouldn't be trying to gear the show towards bratty little kids?
*leaves. again.*
4Kids Files for Bankruptcy: American Fans Rejoice
- Thread starter Spinor
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Maybe they shouldn't be trying to gear the show towards bratty little kids?
*leaves. again.*
yossarian
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This reply is also for AdvancedK47 who made a similar point.
Come off it. Do you really think this show could be succesfully marketed at anyone above the age of 16 in America (or the West)? Let's look at it logically,
- Most of the charachters including the main ones are kids or at the very least young
- Pokemon in general are small, cute adorable things
- The Storylines are extremely simplistic, weak, repetitive and childish (It's been discussed to death on here but they are)
- There is no progression in the overall story
- So many things make no sense and too many Deus Ex Machina are used to resolve storylines
- Things are so black and white (no pun intended) usually
- Older people in general don't play the games and so aren't clued up on what the Pokemon are
- It's an Animated show
- etc etc
How many people above the age of 16 do you know that watch it? I suspect hardly any. There are a few older posters on this forum but like me I suspect that's more due to nostalgia factor of the show and it being a good part of our youth. In fact I only watch the show in secret - I have not revelead to any of my friends that I still watch the show for fear of being ridiculed. That's how uncool the show is to people our age.
If the Pokemon Anime was completely new and was just being introduced over here (and so the nostalgia factor was removed), there is no way anyone over the age of 25 would take it seriously for the reasons I've listed above. Even the majority of 16 - 25 year olds would most likely sneer at it and refuse to watch something where the storylines are so pathetic. And changing the word doughnut back to riceball is not going to change anything.
In Japan the culture is completely different. All Anime is seen as cool and Anime is treated as a religion. Hence it's watched and adored by many regardless of age and such as that is they are able to market it to a larger audience.
Yeah I know. Shouldn't really be arguing with them tbh. I don't you could ever change their minds that 4Kids arn't the devil reincarnated. If I told these people that 4Kids were responsible for the Holocaust, World Poverty, Famine in Africa etc etc they'd probably believe it.
In summary,
"Haters gonna Hate".
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Honestly, I'm not even sure why I started watching it again after like 5 years. I've never stopped loving Team Rocket, but I still watch episodes they're not contained in. For sure there's some kind of nostalgia there, but I don't feel it's the only reason. Maybe it's just because I'm so tired from school I find it super relaxing lol.
My mom finds me superrrrr weird for watching it (looking at me as if I were retarded or something haha), and I suspect my younger sister too. She sometimes watches it with me, but I think she thinks I'm too much into it. I've only told two friends of mine so far, one that liked Pokemon a lot before and an Asian one that doesn't mind. No way I'd tell everybody, playing the game in public is enough. I draw Pokemon everywhere in my notes though, I can't help it :P. Oh well, as long as I have a life beside that =P.
I agree with the points you listed, no way it could become popular among a new and older audience. Unless a more mature version is produced, but still, that would be popular in Japan mostly.
yossarian
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For me it's definately nostalgia. I gave up watching the show (along with most of my generation) when I was about 13/14 when it sort of became old and uncool. A couple of years I discovered all the episodes online and filled with nostalgic memories I ended up watching the entire series and since then I've been following the show hoping to find out what eventually happens to Ash. Though with them heavily reseting things now I've sort of become disillusioned with B&W, so much so that I don't think my nostalgia can overcome my urges now to finally stop. I'm currently wavering.
It helps that you are a girl so you can get away with telling others about it. ;) . I'm meant to be a guy! I'll definately get laughed at if I admitted to still following it !! :P
Anyway I think people are age can get away with playing the games but drawing Pokemon in class, that's pushing it a bit no? :P
People have got to stop treating the anime like SRS FKN BIZNS (however funny that is to me, it's silly). Japanese, English or Chinglish, the anime is crappier... because... well, it's already crap. Just because it's crap, doesn't mean it's unwatchable- I think Best Wishes! is cute and amusing. It's not worth getting SFB over. Loving the anime is fine, but getting your GEEK!RAGE on is just silly. People lost jobs, and could lose a lot more as a result.
I'm "old" as well. I freely admit to people I meet that I like Pokemon. Luckily, a lot of my friends do as well. Anyway, some of my happiest memories of my childhood involved Pokemon. I just like checking out the anime every now and then. It's only Best Wishes! that I have been following semi-regularly. I still buy and play the original Pokemon-styled releases.
DIDN'T YOU PAY ATTENTION IN HISTORY AND SOCIETAL STUDIES?!:
"Adolf Hitler was responsible for the Holocaust. He's also thought to be the reason why famine in Africa exists, and the instigator of the Global Economic Crisis. However, Hitler is most notorious for being a prominent writer of the Americanised Pokemon for 4Kids Entertainment. His decision to make riceballs into doughtnuts was an offence that 99% of the ignorant Pokemon fanbase cannot forgive him of to this day." - quoted from Wikipedia, gais!!11!
Personally, I'm enjoying this. I do like the occasional debate (I'm using this word very loosely, given the quality of some of the arguments). It's hilarious how ignorant people can get. I'm immature, yeah, but at least I'm not ignorant. Yes, 4Kids made some dodgy decisions with a lot of anime, but the fact of the matter is:
1) 4Kids didn't do a bad job with Pokemon, if one remembers that it was made to be for American audiences. Let the weaboo take a back seat~ ;) I KNOW JAPAN IS LIKE, AWESOME that you're RLY JAPANESE, RLY!!!, but you've got the option to watch subs~ 4Kids did not force you at gunpoint.
2) The haters don't have any real argument outside of other anime mishaps and censorship. Dudes, there are WAY more serious censorship issues out there (you silly Americans, you have better things to concern yourselves with!), and I don't see you causing an uproar. Riceballs => doughnuts is of little consequence (and is ****ing LOL), and I must ask, did it change your view on Pokemon forever? It wasn't a defining moment in the "plot" of the Pokemon anime, I can tell you that.
At least you're not spewing out unintelligible garbage about how ASH SHOULD GROW THE **** UP!!! There are lots of threads like that. Amusing, but pointless.
I don't even game in public, haha. For example, I don't like the "SHE IS DOING SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF THE BUS NORMS" stares. Because, y'know, you're only supposed to listen to music, read, or be rowdy at the back.
I'm "old" as well. I freely admit to people I meet that I like Pokemon. Luckily, a lot of my friends do as well. Anyway, some of my happiest memories of my childhood involved Pokemon. I just like checking out the anime every now and then. It's only Best Wishes! that I have been following semi-regularly. I still buy and play the original Pokemon-styled releases.
DIDN'T YOU PAY ATTENTION IN HISTORY AND SOCIETAL STUDIES?!:
"Adolf Hitler was responsible for the Holocaust. He's also thought to be the reason why famine in Africa exists, and the instigator of the Global Economic Crisis. However, Hitler is most notorious for being a prominent writer of the Americanised Pokemon for 4Kids Entertainment. His decision to make riceballs into doughtnuts was an offence that 99% of the ignorant Pokemon fanbase cannot forgive him of to this day." - quoted from Wikipedia, gais!!11!
Personally, I'm enjoying this. I do like the occasional debate (I'm using this word very loosely, given the quality of some of the arguments). It's hilarious how ignorant people can get. I'm immature, yeah, but at least I'm not ignorant. Yes, 4Kids made some dodgy decisions with a lot of anime, but the fact of the matter is:
1) 4Kids didn't do a bad job with Pokemon, if one remembers that it was made to be for American audiences. Let the weaboo take a back seat~ ;) I KNOW JAPAN IS LIKE, AWESOME that you're RLY JAPANESE, RLY!!!, but you've got the option to watch subs~ 4Kids did not force you at gunpoint.
2) The haters don't have any real argument outside of other anime mishaps and censorship. Dudes, there are WAY more serious censorship issues out there (you silly Americans, you have better things to concern yourselves with!), and I don't see you causing an uproar. Riceballs => doughnuts is of little consequence (and is ****ing LOL), and I must ask, did it change your view on Pokemon forever? It wasn't a defining moment in the "plot" of the Pokemon anime, I can tell you that.
At least you're not spewing out unintelligible garbage about how ASH SHOULD GROW THE **** UP!!! There are lots of threads like that. Amusing, but pointless.
I don't even game in public, haha. For example, I don't like the "SHE IS DOING SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF THE BUS NORMS" stares. Because, y'know, you're only supposed to listen to music, read, or be rowdy at the back.
It's the same story for me about watching the episodes. I might have stopped watching the anime even earlier, because it stopped airing on the French language cartoon channel I had access to.
I draw all the time, so I don't mind drawing Pokemon or anything else. Most of the time I draw the humans though, so my friends don't even notice they're from Pokemon. Unless it's Jessie, then guys around are like oooooh Pokeman!!! One asked me what the R standed for, I replied rape, he was "oooh, interesting". It's funny, I've also been drawing Ariana a lot lately (the Team Rocket on my trainer card), and one of my friends told me: "Why are you always drawing women with such crazy hair on top of their heads!?!". I told her it was the same woman, she was like "oooooooooh" haha. Meh, I'm going offtopic, sorry about that.
Well, something actually shocked me with the dub translation. I loved Jessie when I was a kid, writing stories of her childhoold and such (so funny to read them now), and I always thought her mom was poor and feeding her snow. But that was just a bad dub edit, as I said earlier. It troubled me when I learned the truth, since I wanted to know everything about her past. Moreover, the stories I had written were screwed! :P She's not an important character, but she was for me haha.
Meh, you shouldn't be scared about those stares (in fact I never noticed)... Pokemon is a well-made RPG, it's not worse than Mario or Kirby. Who cares about stranger stares anyway? It might be hard, but try to tolerate them ;P.
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The Mega Champion
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The pokemon anime started in the UK when I was around 15/16 and I loved it then and I love it now and its not because of nostalgia. I know quite a few people around my age and older who like to watch it, mostly online but a few people I knew from college a few years ago like the anime. Personally I don't give a damn about marketing. The censorship can be a bit annoying but at least its not as bad as what 4Kids did to other anime and is bearable.
yossarian
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Whoah, are you deliberating trying to be a troll or a complete spastic? This is a Pokemon Anime Board and the post you made on here on a discussion thread about Pokemon & 4Kids heavily implies that you were referring to the Pokemon Anime.
Seriously what else are people meant to infer from this post other than you are talking about the Pokemon anime?
Anyway it's clear you really have no substantial argument to make or you are just incapable of making one. Just spouting one sentence hate lines against 4Kids with nothing to back it up. Even though you are wrong about Yu-Gi-Oh (whilst it may be a step up but it still suffers from the same flaws) I'm not going to waste any more time "debating" with you as I won't receive a response, just more incoherent nonsense.
There's a difference between liking the show and catching the odd older episode here and there to being a committed follower of the show and watching every new episode almost week in week out as soon as it airs.
If you ask most people our age I reckon they'd admit to liking the show because they have fond memories of it as a child and heck some may have even re-watched the older Kanto episodes online, however how many people our age do you truly believe still watch every single new episode over the past few years, over the course of Hoean, D&P and B&W? One does not necessarily imply the other.
Do you friends fall in the later category, because if they do then they are extremely rare.
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LMAO. Silly people amuse me. (Not you, yossarian)
Dude, they're not trying to gear the show towards "bratty children"... THEY ALREADY ARE. FOR THE LAST 15 ****ING YEARS. How have you been paying attention to Pokemon if you're blind?! Please take care not to get involved in a discussion you clearly don't fully understand. TIP: Read the previous posts; they summarise the situation pretty well. Maybe then you could come up with something worth anybody's while.
yossarian, I beg to differ. He's a visionary. His opinions on this matter will be valued throughout Pokemon history. There should be a Pokemon named after him! How about "The Mega Champion- Ironically-Named Pokemon," or, "The Mega Champion- Champion of Fail Pokemon?" Brings a damn tear to my eye. =P
LMAO! =') HEZ A HATURR, YOSS. LET HIM HATE. It's pretty funny actually. The more crap he spouts out, the more amusing this all is. Everybody loves observing idiots through a one-way glass, and making notes on their fail.
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(Maybe I can try to steer the lulz away. Heh.)
Otter summed up the Chapter 11 protection well, so the company will be around in some form. It will be interesting to see what will happen, per Yu-Gi-Oh properties.
Speaking of, you can read all about the YGO issue here:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/yu-gi-creator-terminates-us-172273
Pokebeach had an interesting anecdote, via Roland Kelts' book, Japanamerica, and the Pokemon license issue:
Kelts began his discussions with the Pokemon phenomenon, when the game and cartoon exploded on the American consciousness in 1998. He also briefly digressed to relay the tale of how 4Kids' Al Kahn managed to get the Japanese owners of Pokemon to sign over subsidiary rights in return for a paltry $10 million, mostly because Pokemon's Japanese owners at Shogakukan had no legal team on staff to process the thick contract and didn't understand what they were signing away. Kelts related that Shogakukan's Masakazu Kubo told him, "That was our fault. If you do business with another country, you have to learn how that other country does business," even though this simple mistake ultimately cost them millions of dollars.
https://pokebeach.com/2011/03/4kids-sued-by-yu-gi-oh-peeps
Take it with a grain of salt, and the rest. The timing is both ironic and somewhat tragic, per the impending 10th anniversary of the YGO dub. (Combine that with the 5th anniversary of losing the Pokemon dub license, and you have a nice double header.) I admit, their dubs entertained me in the early 2000's, so I do feel some sadness about this. Reaction on here, regardless of position, is fascinating, as always.
I have to conclude with the notorious (and amusing) Alfred Kahn and his 2010 purchase of Bernie Madoff's penthouse. The Wall Street Journal OP has the right amount of skepticism, and I don't blame her.
https://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2010/02/06/4kids-entertainment-ceo-purchases-madoff-penthouse/
Update: Speaking as someone who is often accused of Subject line fail, yeah, I'd drop that "American Fans Rejoice" part. I understand the passion, but it does come off as too polarizing. Just saying for future reference, is all.
Otter summed up the Chapter 11 protection well, so the company will be around in some form. It will be interesting to see what will happen, per Yu-Gi-Oh properties.
Speaking of, you can read all about the YGO issue here:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/yu-gi-creator-terminates-us-172273
Pokebeach had an interesting anecdote, via Roland Kelts' book, Japanamerica, and the Pokemon license issue:
Kelts began his discussions with the Pokemon phenomenon, when the game and cartoon exploded on the American consciousness in 1998. He also briefly digressed to relay the tale of how 4Kids' Al Kahn managed to get the Japanese owners of Pokemon to sign over subsidiary rights in return for a paltry $10 million, mostly because Pokemon's Japanese owners at Shogakukan had no legal team on staff to process the thick contract and didn't understand what they were signing away. Kelts related that Shogakukan's Masakazu Kubo told him, "That was our fault. If you do business with another country, you have to learn how that other country does business," even though this simple mistake ultimately cost them millions of dollars.
https://pokebeach.com/2011/03/4kids-sued-by-yu-gi-oh-peeps
Take it with a grain of salt, and the rest. The timing is both ironic and somewhat tragic, per the impending 10th anniversary of the YGO dub. (Combine that with the 5th anniversary of losing the Pokemon dub license, and you have a nice double header.) I admit, their dubs entertained me in the early 2000's, so I do feel some sadness about this. Reaction on here, regardless of position, is fascinating, as always.
I have to conclude with the notorious (and amusing) Alfred Kahn and his 2010 purchase of Bernie Madoff's penthouse. The Wall Street Journal OP has the right amount of skepticism, and I don't blame her.
https://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2010/02/06/4kids-entertainment-ceo-purchases-madoff-penthouse/
Update: Speaking as someone who is often accused of Subject line fail, yeah, I'd drop that "American Fans Rejoice" part. I understand the passion, but it does come off as too polarizing. Just saying for future reference, is all.
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yossarian
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Well if they are convicted of fraudulently withholding money and using bad accounting practices to hide liabilities and the rest of the stuff then there's no defending them. However I'd like to remind people at this moment all it is, is just an allegation - and in the majority of the civilised Western world people are assumed to be innocent until proven guilty.
I know there are a lot of people who hate 4Kids as demonstrated from this thread and even the comments on that hollywoodreporter article and will pounce at any oppurtunity to pour scorn at them and bring up the now infamous "riceball into doughnut" incident but they really ought to refrain from passing judgement until the case is over and a decision made. Unless they know something that no one else knows (in which case they really should pass that on to the authorities) then you're just looking silly and frankly childish making verdicts of their guilt, even more so if they turn out to be innocent in all this.
Either way by the looks of it, it was the executives and managing directors, basically the higher ups who were being greedy and shady (again I stress if true) not the day to day staff in charge of actually producing the dubbed animation. Unfortunately it seems that the hardworking teams that have worked hard to deliver an excellent product to many viewers in the West may have to suffer due to the incompetence of a few. People really need to show more tact and class then make comments "rejoicing this" or I quote from the comments section in that article, "Yay! Good riddence!" & "HA! It serves 4Kids right."
EDIT - Also I don't know why people are using the fact that they managed to acquire all the subsidary rights to Pokemon very cheaply (too cheaply in hindsight) as a stick to beat them up with. That's just business; they made an offer to the Japanese company, which they apparently didn't check throughly and just accepted it (probably never in a million years anticipating it's eventual popularity) - which as they admit is their fault and mistake so I don't understand why Pokebeach are describing 4Kids actions as "questionable". It only appeared to be a mistake in hindsight after the popularity of Pokemon exploded in the West. Pokemon could have easily been a failure in which case 4Kids would have lost $10 million and the Japanese company would be laughing that they'd managed to con a lot of money from some American suckers. Like any business, they took a risk and for them it spectacularly paid off.
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We could go into argue about how the United States media has no integrity, but I'll save face for another day.
Instead, I'll just do this. It's apparent that 4Kids is losing business, as witnessed by their loss of Pokémon, the Yu-Gi-Oh! debacle, and now this. But why? The Japanese are likely not happy with the results they're pulling in. Could it be because of the crappy translations and edits? It could be. But it could also be because the shows aren't pulling in the amount of viewers that the Japanese expected/wanted. More viewers means more money and vice versa. And the low numbers could be because their localization goes too far, that they're just doing a bad job, or anything, really. But when ratings increase when a show, such as One Piece, switches localization studios, something tells me it's not the show or its content. Yes, I agree some jokes can get lost in translation, they need to make the dialog fit in with the mouth movement, and they need to alter some aspects of the show in regards to 4Kids' target audience. However, when their target audience doesn't want to watch their dubs, it's on their shoulders. You can't deny their initial success with Pokémon, but as evidenced by TCPi's takeover, you can't help but think they ruined it for themselves.
And a major restructuring would hopefully mean new higher-ups. I'm getting kind of tired with all these "kid only" jokes and content. Why can't we have a universal sense of content that appeals to all ages?
Instead, I'll just do this. It's apparent that 4Kids is losing business, as witnessed by their loss of Pokémon, the Yu-Gi-Oh! debacle, and now this. But why? The Japanese are likely not happy with the results they're pulling in. Could it be because of the crappy translations and edits? It could be. But it could also be because the shows aren't pulling in the amount of viewers that the Japanese expected/wanted. More viewers means more money and vice versa. And the low numbers could be because their localization goes too far, that they're just doing a bad job, or anything, really. But when ratings increase when a show, such as One Piece, switches localization studios, something tells me it's not the show or its content. Yes, I agree some jokes can get lost in translation, they need to make the dialog fit in with the mouth movement, and they need to alter some aspects of the show in regards to 4Kids' target audience. However, when their target audience doesn't want to watch their dubs, it's on their shoulders. You can't deny their initial success with Pokémon, but as evidenced by TCPi's takeover, you can't help but think they ruined it for themselves.
And a major restructuring would hopefully mean new higher-ups. I'm getting kind of tired with all these "kid only" jokes and content. Why can't we have a universal sense of content that appeals to all ages?
countryemo
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I agree, in fact I know close to none "ten year old" kids that like pokemon. bakugan, sure. But on to the topic.
Honestly, this is a bit sad. I hate to see everybody thinking the dub sucks, and japaneese is the best. so on.
Honestly the 4kids dub was the best, sure there was some bad translaitons. I never watched the .Jap versions. They did the best job, not who does it now. Ok 4kids did edit the dialouge allot, but that only made it more interesting.
I wish they still did it xD well B&W is going good.
Mee... I never really liked /johto. Kanto was awesome though cept for the theme.
And some other friends/family of mine.
I used to catch every ep of hoenn when it was on, I stopped during sinnoh since it switched and got hard. Now I just watch sinnoh/b&w online. Im not going on cartoon network. Edit: Just caught in on tv :D I mostly miss it by an hour.
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Right, as I threw in the Pokebeach commentary for potential context. And I wasn't thrilled with the OP's comments, either, especially, as you rightfully observed, "who knew Pokemon would be the juggernaut, vis-a-vis, the deal at the time?" I was more focused on Kelts' ancedote, rather than the Pokebeach OP, anyway. (Besides, the issue was more on the TPCI takeover and the money issue, anyway.)
Fairness and truth is the goal here, both the good and the bad. 4Kids may have done things beyond anyone's sole control, which happens in our current economy, and they may have done some untoward things, as well. (Even the untoward items have to be acknowledged in proper context with everything else. Truth matters most, doesn't it? Again, as you noted with your edit about the '98 deal. Harsher in Hindsight, but, hell, I didn't think Pokemon would be so popular, at the time, either.) We don't know, as, frankly, we're getting either secondhand accounts, or to go with Allstair, depends on the media source you trust.
You are also correct in that it is supposed to be innocent until guilty, which is why I'm not going to freak about the fraud issue until real proof surfaces. (I only added the THR link for clarity's sake.) I'm not an economics expert, so I just want to report the news, and leave it up for everyone else. (If I'm going to sound childish or engage in wankery, I'll go with a topic I have more knowledge of. Heh.)
I didn't say it in my first post, but I was quite curious about the Pokemon fandom's reaction. 4Kids deserves its criticism, yet I never was one to wish them out of existence, either. I understand the negativity, but, as you said, we could live without the schadenfreude.
Frankly, I didn't even know about the YGO issue or any of this until yesterday. I knew their stock was down, but I never thought "ZOMG! Bankruptcy!" Under Chapter 11, they can hopefully reformat and have a chance to come back.
Edit: In case if my previous post whipped up any unneeded frenzy, my apologies. Certainly wasn't my intent, at the time. Anyway, I definitely second all of what Allstair said.
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yossarian
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Hang on, it's not as simple or clear cut as you're trying to make out. You're trying to say just because the shows may have lost viewers (I'd really like to see evidence first tbh) that it's directly because the dubbing company made too many bad edits? And not perhaps because the original storyline may have become lame and boring or other cirumstances (changes in scheduling, natural depreciation of TV audeinces, stronger competitive TV show vying for the same audience etc etc)?
Logically it's more likely to be the later reason, i.e. the storyline going stale rather then the dub edits. I mean the viewers have already tolerated so far the dub edits including stuff like changing "Riceballs into Doughnuts" (I'm sorry I keep bringing this up but I find this whole incident just hilarious :laugh: ) - so why would they suddenly decide halfway into the series that the edits just suddenly sucked and made the show unwatchable? Also a key point that I've made at least two times already but I'm going to say it again in bold because it's just that important and once again relevant "The vast majority of people who watch the dub, don't watch or follow the original Japanese version" so they are blissfully unaware when there is a dub edit or modification, so they would have no reason to be pissed of with any dub changes.
Also, from Charaxes article we've seen that 4Kids cleverly negotiated the subsidery rights for the Japanese shows (much to their later displeasure)... so why then would the Japanese companies care whether 4Kids acheived high ratings or sold much merchandise.. after all they wouldn't get a single penny from it.
Also they didn't lose Pokemon because of bad ratings or anything like that. They were still delivering a consistent product which although decreased in popularity from it's initial highs was still doing reasonably well. I mean here was a Kids show that had been running for 10 years straight. That's very rare in the Children's industry (Seasame Street, Tom and Jerry, Looney Toons .....). No, they lost the franchise purely because as has been established Nintendo finally realised that there was no reason to employ a middle man to expose the product to Western audiences - they could do it themselves and pocket all the money.
By the Yu-Gi-Oh debacle I assume you meaning them having to stop production because of this lawsuit? Again how is this a ratings issue?
I don't follow One Piece so I can't comment on that.
Anyway I'm still yet to see clear and refutable evidence that their own personal dubbing decisions caused the loss of viewers.
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BenjiTheKid
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Bit odd saying that, since most of us (most, not all) probably started watching Pokemon (and shows like Yu-Gi-Oh!, too) when we were but "bratty little kids" ourselves. The fact of the matter is, we can't expect those shows to grow up with us like I suspect many people wish they were. In Japan, Pokemon is probably aimed at a larger audience because- as has already been pointed out- anime is bigger there, more popular, and therefore they can get away with aiming for such a large audience. In the US, however, things are a bit different. Anime/manga is not nearly as popular here as it is there. In fact, I was ridiculed all throughout middle school for liking anime to the point where I pretended I didn't any more. So, the audience they aim for over here isn't nearly as broad. If they targeted older teenagers and/or adults, the show would not have lasted this long in America. And I would not have the nostalgia that I do today. The games are a large part of the franchise, sure and a lot of older people do play the games. However, the show did play a large part in the popularity of Pokemon and not as many older people watch the show. Heck, I don't even really watch it any more... just every now and then for a trip down memory lane.
I honestly don't think 4kids did a terrible job on Pokemon. There were a few things that irritate me just a bit, but nothing that would make me nerd rage or anything. The rice balls to doughnuts thing is extremely silly... but I can understand their line of thought in making such a change. I may have known what a rice ball was when I was 9 (and only because my mom pointed out that the "donuts" on Pokemon were actually rice balls), but most American children don't. 4kids isn't perfect (someone mentioned Tokyo Mew Mew... I wanted to forget what 4kids did to them so badly that I almost actually forgot), but Pokemon definitely was not the worst dub they've done. I actually liked Pokemon better in the 4kids days. I'm not a big fan of the CN episodes.
I don't know. I don't care what chapter bankruptcy it is. I can't bring myself to rejoice because of bankruptcy.
LOVE LILLIPUP SO MUCH!!! I got a shiny Stoutland, but it was too bad since I already have a fully-trained normal one.
Um, anyway... back on topic, you're right, but hun, since he's an idiot, he's expected to spew out nonsense like that. He doesn't even come back here to defend his points of view, because he's probably too ignorant to really think of any of his own. We're lucky enough to observe an ignorant waste of forum space in their natural habitat! XP
Another wonderful point as expected from a Lillipup fan. However, I would like to point out that even in Japan, Pokemon is still more aimed towards the young. It's just that Japanese parents are not usually offended by the typical things Western parents would be.
My understanding of the chapters of bankruptcy is very thin, but I wholly agree- rejoicing a business struggling with bankruptcy is ridiculous.
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I also agree with this statement. The fact of the matter is not only does this mean the loss of jobs, but the fact that they where one of the biggest American children entertainment groups is cause for worry.
The US makes as much money with entertainment as they do with exporting of products, or any other kind of marketing. (do correct me if I am wrong) With the loss of any sort of entertainment company or franchise it shows just how bad the overall economy is.
Another thing I would like to point out. Even if I am wrong about what I said above, which is a strong possibility, the fact of the matter is only teens and adults really complain about the quality of dubs or edits in the shows. I do not believe that, and again I could be wrong, anyone that posts on these threads are under the age of 15, if so then they are the minority.
My little brother and his friends, all under the age of 10, watch the 4Kids version of One Piece with a smile on their faces, despite how awful I believe it is. Even if I tell them that Dragon Ball Z Kai is the single most horrible re-made anime of all time they still watch it, much to my disappointment. (I do know it is off topic but it is a prime example.)
So you can say all you want about how bad an anime dub is and belittle the people actually making an effort to give non-Japanese speaking children living in America or other countries a chance to watch a good anime, but remember the shows are not targeting you but the children of said countries. This is not to say teens and adults do not watch and enjoy children's shows mind you, long live the children at heart.
If you truly have a problem with the dubs then simply watch a subbed version of it, turn the volume down all the way and read the text how you believe it should be read. Heck make a company and develop and dub your own versions of the anime you wish, if it is good then kudos to you I shall watch it and eat my words, if not then perhaps you will have a thread on a forum somewhere saying to rejoice your impending bankruptcy.
-phew- glad I got that thought out of my head.
I must agree, Lillipup is one of the cutest pokemon out there right now. I do wish that I could get a shiny one though.
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