4th Gen AI Luck?

[Sneeze]

Is it me or is the game bias towards the AI regarding luck and chance? Random chances always seem to work in favour in the AI. I seem to be getting critical hits on me all the time, once match I even counted five and this was from basic moves like pound and stuff and fighting against Morty hypnosis hit me like five-six times in a row.

Does the game work in favour of the AI or do I just have abysmal luck?

 

[Sire]

First off, what is the 'AI'?

 

[billios]

AI means artificial intelligence

 

[Raibutai]

a.k.a. the opponent you face in EVERY Pokemon battle in the game.

 

[Tinhead Bruce]

Luck is almost always going to be on the AI's side. The AI doesn't think like a human does, so simply matching the player's skill against the AI's "skill" wouldn't be a challenge at all. However, put luck on the AI's side, and you've got a much more difficult battle. You will sometimes get lucky, because otherwise there wouldn't be algorithms that influence luck, there would just be coding that says "make the AI's attacks always crit and make it so the player always does the minimum damage possible".

Anyways, yeah, from what I can see, AI tends to have luck on its side.

 

[Sneeze]

Luck is almost always going to be on the AI's side. The AI doesn't think like a human does, so simply matching the player's skill against the AI's "skill" wouldn't be a challenge at all. However, put luck on the AI's side, and you've got a much more difficult battle. You will sometimes get lucky, because otherwise there wouldn't be algorithms that influence luck, there would just be coding that says "make the AI's attacks always crit and make it so the player always does the minimum damage possible".

Anyways, yeah, from what I can see, AI tends to have luck on its side.

That makes sense actually, never thought about it that way, kinda lame though. At least its not like the battle tower I guess, the amount of times due to being KO'd by a OHKO move on the very first time it's used. >.< I swear its worse in HG/SS though, I never had this problem in any of the other gen, not to this extent anyways.

 

[Andrew McKenzie]

Well, in all fairness. I think it's just bad luck on your part.
I was watching my friend play his the other day, without any codes, and he encountered 5 shinies in the space of the first 10 mins of playing.

It's rather annoying cause I can't even seem to find one shiny and I keep getting ****ed over by my attacks missing nearly every time.

 

[Sudeki]

I have to say that the AI has gotten some boosts, and I love it, I mean I've noticed the AI has been smarter about which moves it uses, I mean before the AI would just use tons of moves even if there not effective, But now I've noticed they have started to use moves that are SE against me alot more.
And Yes the AI also seem to have better luck this time around with Status Moves/crits, and I also enjoy it. That was one thing that was always kinda boring was that the game was too easy.
But I wish they kept up the levels like they did on D/p/pt, I mean you had to do some serious training to even beat the gyms.

 

[Sneeze]

Seems like kind of a cheap way to make the game harder imo though, it just comes down to luck not skill.

 

[Tinhead Bruce]

Seems like kind of a cheap way to make the game harder imo though, it just comes down to luck not skill.

Skill will still be a factor. A skilled player can still beat an AI opponent who has the luck, as long as that player is versed in the Pokémon mechanics.

 

[sgspacemonkey]

I recently wrote a post about this on my blog as I also noticed it and it has irritated me a bit I must say. I'm really enjoying Silver, but I do miss how the battles felt in Pearl. I don't think it can be just down to bad luck because the chances of having confusion work against me that often is rediculous. I like a challenge, but you can't help but feel frustrated when every single time your pokemon will end up hurting itself 4 times in a row, and when your opponent is confused that never happens and they tend to snap out of it pretty quickly. The crits and stuff weren't bothering me too much, it's just the confusion - it's really unfair. For example, 'Outrage' without the consequence.

Skill will still be a factor. A skilled player can still beat an AI opponent who has the luck, as long as that player is versed in the Pokémon mechanics.

You're right in a way, but there is never any skill in luck. For example, can you say that people who appear on shows like 'Deal or no deal' are using skill. As long as you're winning it's fine, but the moment you train really hard and end up losing anyway due to an overweighted game, you can't help feeling a little put off by it. I just think it's lazy to make a game hard by simply changing the stats for the enemy. A.I. should be made hard by actually building tacticts into it. I have however, noticed the use of moves in Silver have been a little more intelligent.

 

[Vindel]

In most every game, the AI is going to have a lot better chance of hitting/critting/killing you. It makes the game more difficult, perhaps annoying, but what fun is a game that has no challenge?

Talk about bad luck, I was playing Fire Emblem 7, and fighting an enemy boss who had a 1% chance to crit while I had 57%. I didn't crit and said I'd kill him next turn. He turns around and kills my main character, and I have to start the chapter over. :/

I've had similar situations in Pokémon. The enemy I was fight kept using Waterfall, and it kept critting/flinching me. Got really annoying. My Pokémon was using an item that had a chance to flinch them, as well as Focus Energy and Night Slash and I still wasn't critting.

Oh, have you ever noticed, the times you crit is usually when you don't need one? AKA: trying to catch a Pokémon, or one that is already at critcal HP.

 

[Ninja Caterpie]

Well, stuff their luck.

Serene Grace Togekiss to the rescue! I'd like to see them try and out-flinch this beast.

 

[Sneeze]

Well, stuff their luck.

Serene Grace Togekiss to the rescue! I'd like to see them try and out-flinch this beast.

That's why I have one on my EV Trained platinum team, complete with Thunder Wave. :P

I considering putting attract on there do but decided against it.

 

[sgspacemonkey]

In most every game, the AI is going to have a lot better chance of hitting/critting/killing you. It makes the game more difficult, perhaps annoying, but what fun is a game that has no challenge?

I like a challenge, but I prefer a challenge in that my opponent is intelligent, not over-weighted. Anyway, like I said, crits aren't so bad. In Pokemon I find it's the stuff like flinching, paralyse, sleep and confusion, that make you miss a turn, that get annoying, lol. I have a strong interest in A.I. and like to read books about it, which have always stated as a rule that the player should never ever feel like they are being cheated against. I guess that's partly why I have a low opinion of it. I'm ok with it, as long as I don't notice it, but I don't like being cheated against by A.I. any more than I'd like another human player to cheat against me.

Oh, have you ever noticed, the times you crit is usually when you don't need one? AKA: trying to catch a Pokémon, or one that is already at critcal HP.

Yup that always happens. Pretty typical really. The luck in Pokemon seems to always work against you, lol. The thing is, I've always been lucky in most RPG's, yet never in Pokemon.

 

[lamby101]

I wish the AI would actually battle with some sort of intelligence, the amount of times i've been nearly finished off and then the AI mucks it up is annoying. I'm through to the 7th gym, with a pretty average team and am yet to lose a battle :/

 

[Tinhead Bruce]

You're right in a way, but there is never any skill in luck. For example, can you say that people who appear on shows like 'Deal or no deal' are using skill. As long as you're winning it's fine, but the moment you train really hard and end up losing anyway due to an overweighted game, you can't help feeling a little put off by it. I just think it's lazy to make a game hard by simply changing the stats for the enemy. A.I. should be made hard by actually building tacticts into it. I have however, noticed the use of moves in Silver have been a little more intelligent.

No, you cannot really say that they are using skill, because they are not. They have no idea where anything is, even if they have an inkling. However, Pokémon is not Deal or no Deal, and taking random guesses is not productive, nor will it increase your chances to win. Skill, however, will help you win. Choosing the right moves, matching up the types, using items, and employing strategy will help you beat an opponent, even if he has luck.

Anyways, I agree with you on the part about making AI more tactic-based, but it would be difficult, at least on this platform at this time. I do believe though that Nintendo and other companies could make great strides in AI if they put a little more R & D on it.

 

[leonfei]

@Tinhead
The DS is perfectly capable of having advanced AI. AI is just code after all, and even if you have a massive option tree, say with 20 levels and 20 options per level per previous level option (little convoluted, but I think I got that right) it would still only take 20 executions, since there would only be one execution per level of the code. All it would take is space on the cartridge for the code, and if they write a basic algorithm that can be modified for each trainer I'm sure it would be possible.

Anyway I seem to have been quite lucky while playing Heart Gold. I haven't suffered too much from biased AI, but I have witnessed it in Pokémon in the past. It's why I prefer straight out attack moves to things like confusion when fighting the computer, since damage is damage.

 

[linkinpark187]

I'd like to know what happened to the smart, well thought out, strategy based AI. I remember in the 1st and 2nd gen getting Sand Attacked like no tomorrow by a Pidgey until it knew that it had sufficiently used it, then it would start to Tackle. I loved that, and I used to battle like that in Pokémon myself. But not anymore, because all the AI ever does is attack. BUT I've also noticed that that's all Nintendo programmed them with. There's just no fun in battling the AI anymore. I dislike it on every level, but I'll still play it anyway. :laugh:

 

[Tinhead Bruce]

@Tinhead
The DS is perfectly capable of having advanced AI. AI is just code after all, and even if you have a massive option tree, say with 20 levels and 20 options per level per previous level option (little convoluted, but I think I got that right) it would still only take 20 executions, since there would only be one execution per level of the code. All it would take is space on the cartridge for the code, and if they write a basic algorithm that can be modified for each trainer I'm sure it would be possible.

Anyway I seem to have been quite lucky while playing Heart Gold. I haven't suffered too much from biased AI, but I have witnessed it in Pokémon in the past. It's why I prefer straight out attack moves to things like confusion when fighting the computer, since damage is damage.

I understand, but there is a difference between the advanced level of AI you're talking about – and just for the record I agree with you – and the advanced level of AI that everyone wants. They want AI that make logical decisions, that think in the exact way humans do, which, at least for right now, isn't possible. Obviously this "they" is just my assumption, as it's what I always wanted when I was younger.