Atheist Alliance

[Harmonie]

What I find interesting is the amount of people who say their parents or friends don't know that they're atheists. It's almost like it's as big of a deal as being gay, where there has to be this involved 'coming out' process. It might just be the area where I live, but... is it really that big of a deal?

I live in the Bible Belt. That's why.

In my family I think it would actually be preferable to come out as gay. My family (my parents), in particular, is rather liberal, so they aren't incredibly homophobic. However, they are very much believers, and my mom has pretty much implied to me that she doesn't think that non-believers can be as good of people by telling me that I need to date somebody who is a strong Christian. D:

I also have some friends who say stuff like "you've got to believe in something". =/

 

[Alice]

With an atheist, it changes nothing about their life, just their potential afterlife. I understand that if it goes against the values a parent tries to teach you then it's a big deal... but is it really on the same scale?

For a Christian, the afterlife is far more important than this life. So, it's actually on a much much grander scale.

Yay! Welcome SwiftSign!

I'm not sure how I'd go in a relationship with a Christian lol - like, I'm sure I could make it work without it being an issue, but I think at the same time there would be part of me thinking "you are gay and a Christian. Wake up. WAKE UP". I'm not proud of that and I totally recognise it's my issue; and the fact that I know that is why I think I could make it work.

But then also there's the issue of Christmas and Easter and whether or not we would go to church for those occasions and how religiously we celebrate them. Obviously we'd want to spend Christmas/Easter together, but I wouldn't want to set foot anywhere near a church yet they might; or at the very least they might feel the pressure of their family to do so. So yeah, there's always that to consider, and how it would affect the relationship.

I don't think many Christians go to church on Christmas. I definitely wouldn't. You're supposed to on Easter, though I haven't been to church in a few years anyway. While the church community is important, I wasn't raised with it, so I feel fairly out of place there.

(Sorry, it seems I can't help but make this thread about Christians, rofl. Got any other topics?)

 

[Phantom1]

I don't think many Christians go to church on Christmas. I definitely wouldn't. You're supposed to on Easter, though I haven't been to church in a few years anyway. While the church community is important, I wasn't raised with it, so I feel fairly out of place there.

Actually, in Catholicism, you're supposed to go to Church EVERY Sunday, as well as holy days of obligation, including; Christmas; Ash Wednesday; Easter (not just Easter Sunday, but Holy Thursday, Good Friday, and the Easter Vigil as well); The Epiphany; The Ascension; Immaculate Conception; Assumption; Saint Joseph; the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul; and All Saints Day.

Also you're supposed to go to Stations of the Cross during Lent, Confessions once a week (usually Saturdays or a LEAST annually), no meat on Fridays during Lent as well as Ash Wednesday (fish is ok), as well as observing Advent and it's Masses.

 

[Alice]

For us, the only holiday that you're supposed to go to Church for is Easter, unless another holiday happens to land on Sunday.

I don't even know what most of those things you mentioned are.

 

[Phantom1]

Actually, in Catholicism, you're supposed to go to Church EVERY Sunday, as well as holy days of obligation, including; Christmas; (the birth of Christ) Ash Wednesday; (beginning of Lent) Easter (resurrection of Christ) (not just Easter Sunday (rising), but Holy Thursday (Last supper), Good Friday (death), and the Easter Vigil (only day without Christ, waiting for resurrection) as well); The Epiphany (visitation of the magi); The Ascension (Jesus' ascension into heaven); Immaculate Conception (Mary becomes pregnant); Assumption (Mary goes to heaven); Saint Joseph (celebration of Jesus' stepfather); the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul (celebration of Peter and Paul and their martyrdom); and All Saints Day. (celebrates all the saints)

Also you're supposed to go to Stations of the Cross during Lent (the 40 days before Easter which includes fasting and prayer and is very sad in general), Confessions (confessing your sins) once a week (usually Saturdays or a LEAST annually), no meat on Fridays during Lent as well as Ash Wednesday (fish is ok), as well as observing Advent (the days before Christmas) and it's Masses.

Bold is new stuffs.


Any questions feel free to ask. As a server I know A LOT about the Masses for the holy days.

 

[Shining Raichu]

QuilavaKing, question: If you had a serious partner, would you have any issue with them not going to Church with you for Easter?

I also have some friends who say stuff like "you've got to believe in something". =/

I've come across this same problem. I've taken to replying. "I do believe in something: myself."

One of the problems I have found with religion is this message it teaches that 'without God, I am nothing'. I've heard that a lot, that you have to believe in him and his ability to provide for you. There is nothing in that message that says to believe in yourself and your own abilities - because after all, God provided those too.

I think that is terribly destructive, to tell people that God is the everything and you are nothing. I've always thought that everybody should believe in themselves above all else because in the end you're the only one that can get you what you need. Two hands working are infinitely more valuable than two hands clasped in prayer.

 

[Yoshikkko]

I also have some friends who say stuff like "you've got to believe in something". =/

Wow I never get that because I don't really put it out there that I don't believe or talk about it at all, but that's really stupid. Basically that's saying that if you don't believe in God you don't believe in anything else, so with that they are only acknowledging God as a belief, which is extremely hypocritical. It's called believing for a reason too, which is probably always my argument. Can I post here when I'm not a member? If not thennn sign me up I guess? XD

 

[Harmonie]

I've come across this same problem. I've taken to replying. "I do believe in something: myself."

One of the problems I have found with religion is this message it teaches that 'without God, I am nothing'. I've heard that a lot, that you have to believe in him and his ability to provide for you. There is nothing in that message that says to believe in yourself and your own abilities - because after all, God provided those too.

I think that is terribly destructive, to tell people that God is the everything and you are nothing. I've always thought that everybody should believe in themselves above all else because in the end you're the only one that can get you what you need. Two hands working are infinitely more valuable than two hands clasped in prayer.

You could go further and say that two hands working are infinitely more valuable than one thousand (or more) hands clasped in prayer. lol

I see this constantly, people not giving credit where it's due. They don't give credit to themselves, nor do they give credit to anybody else. It's always to this 'God'. But when a tragedy strikes they shift the blame. =/

I do think it's sad though. Like when one goes through a surgery to save their life, and it is successful. The family and friends always thank this God for saving that person's life, while the professionals who did the surgery get no credit. The absurdity of it is very clear. If this 'God' answered any prayers the person wouldn't be having that surgery to begin with.

I just can't believe we still believe this stuff in our modern day society. I don't mean that to be rude, I know that being religious or not being religious has nothing to do with intelligence. It has more to do with being caught in the web of religion, one that is very hard to get out of with all of the fear-mongering (Hell) and the various defense mechanisms that believers have created over time to try to cover up the issues.

 

[Alice]

QuilavaKing, question: If you had a serious partner, would you have any issue with them not going to Church with you for Easter?

Like I said, I haven't gone to church in a few years anyway, which includes Easter. lol

But assuming that I started to go again, I would ask them to come with me, but if they say no, then they say no. My dad is agnostic, and he swore that he would become a Christian when he married my mom, and he went to church for a few months, and hasn't been back since. They've been married 39 years.

So, I'm not going to bother trying to change whoever I end up with, especially considering how most Gays view Christians. (Or rather, how most Christians view Gays.)

That said, I don't believe that God hates gays, and I don't believe that being gay is a sin. I think Christians have misinterpreted the Bible, and are now using it as an excuse to run away from something they don't understand.

Two hands working are infinitely more valuable than two hands clasped in prayer.

I personally believe that you should pray while you work. My mom believes that you should just pray about something, and then let God do all the work, and forget it ever existed... but even if you do believe in God, you should know that he won't directly intervene. He will send someone else to do the work for him. Why not be his messenger yourself?

 

[FrostPheonix]

Been some time since I posted ^^. Don't know half of you, so just so you guys know, I'm Christian. Should help explain the motive behind any of my responses.

That said, I don't believe that God hates gays, and I don't believe that being gay is a sin. I think Christians have misinterpreted the Bible, and are now using it as an excuse to run away from something they don't understand.

Personally, I'm against same sex relationships but really have nothing against them... I mean, they can do what they want. It is their life, after all. But I still don't think that was what God intended. But no Bible verses I kno of.

I personally believe that you should pray while you work. My mom believes that you should just pray about something, and then let God do all the work, and forget it ever existed... but even if you do believe in God, you should know that he won't directly intervene. He will send someone else to do the work for him. Why not be his messenger yourself?

I agree with that. I saw this little comic once, where this guy prayed most of the time before a test and then got an F. He was surprised, but hey, he didn't study/review one bit. God won't help you if you don't try.


but yeah, I'm starting to think that we could switch topics like quilava suggested...? It seems to me that we are slowly spiralling towards a state of mind where we talk about why Christians are wrong... but, dunno what we may talk about. Maybe presence of alien life?

 

[Shining Raichu]

It seems to me that we are slowly spiralling towards a state of mind where we talk about why Christians are wrong

I don't think that's an intentional direction anybody is steering in, but to be honest in a group of atheists you have to expect that there will be talk about why we think religious people are wrong lol. There will be agreement among us, because we are all from the same lack of faith. That's not at all to say we discourage discussion, but you have to be wary that that's what will happen sometimes, no matter what the topic. We can't help that, it's just realistically what will happen when any group of like-minded people come together.

However! In answer to your plea for a new topic...

But I still don't think that was what God intended. But no Bible verses I kno of.

I find what you say here interesting. It's been well-established that gay isn't something people choose. That's not a matter of opinion, it is simple fact. Therefore, we can conclude that homosexuality is not a product of free will. So if we aren't choosing to be gay, and it was also not something that God intended, then how does homosexuality exist at all?

 

[Gamzee]

What I find interesting is the amount of people who say their parents or friends don't know that they're atheists. It's almost like it's as big of a deal as being gay, where there has to be this involved 'coming out' process. It might just be the area where I live, but... is it really that big of a deal?

It really depends on where you live and your family. I myself have never discussed religion with my family. I'm honestly not even sure what they are. My grandpa might think I'm Christian because I went to church for a few months, but it was purely to expand my knowledge on the religion.

However, I do have friends who are atheists and if they came out and just said they don't believe in God or anything of the religion, it would create tension and uneasiness in the family.

I... I don't even have a response from this. I just..wow...

Well, what's it matter? If someone disagrees with gay marriage, whatever, I'm not going to waste my time telling them that I think they're intolerant or illogical.

I know people who personally disagree with it, but they still vote in favor of it because they don't believe it to be their place to press their beliefs onto others. That's where it matters for me: if they're actively trying to oppress people.

 

[Shining Raichu]

Well, what's it matter? If someone disagrees with gay marriage, whatever, I'm not going to waste my time telling them that I think they're intolerant or illogical.

I know people who personally disagree with it, but they still vote in favor of it because they don't believe it to be their place to press their beliefs onto others. That's where it matters for me: if they're actively trying to oppress people.

I think Pudz was commenting on the contradiction in Frost's post: "I am against it but I have nothing against it" - it didn't make much sense to me either tbh but I decided to skip over it in favour of the part I found more interesting :P

 

[Oryx]

Actually, in Catholicism, you're supposed to go to Church EVERY Sunday, as well as holy days of obligation, including; Christmas; Ash Wednesday; Easter (not just Easter Sunday, but Holy Thursday, Good Friday, and the Easter Vigil as well); The Epiphany; The Ascension; Immaculate Conception; Assumption; Saint Joseph; the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul; and All Saints Day.

Also you're supposed to go to Stations of the Cross during Lent, Confessions once a week (usually Saturdays or a LEAST annually), no meat on Fridays during Lent as well as Ash Wednesday (fish is ok), as well as observing Advent and it's Masses.

Uh speaking as someone who actually became Catholic over the Easter season, I think at least one priest would have told us if we were required to go to mass on Holy Thursday, Good Friday, the Easter Vigil, and Easter itself. In fact the Easter Vigil midnight mass was all we were required to go to. I think you're making Catholicism into a bigger deal than it is - other than Sundays there are only like 10 holy days of obligation and confession is only required of a practicing Catholic once a year. Yeah it's strict compared to other religions (and to atheism certainly lmao), but it's not really that crazy.

I know people who personally disagree with it, but they still vote in favor of it because they don't believe it to be their place to press their beliefs onto others. That's where it matters for me: if they're actively trying to oppress people.

I have the utmost respect for these people. I don't agree with their beliefs of course, but I have so much respect for people that believe something different but still are tolerant of others. It's greattttt :3

 

[Esper]

So there is this video a friend suggested I watched yesterday and after watching it I thought I ought to sign up for this club.

This is the video: "Why Are You Atheists So Angry?"

I normally don't care to call myself an atheist or agnostic because I feel religion means so little to me I shouldn't even bother, but I've been reminded of the power that anger can have. And all the reasons I should be angry.

 

[Mana1]

So there is this video a friend suggested I watched yesterday and after watching it I thought I ought to sign up for this club.

This is the video: "Why Are You Atheists So Angry?"

I normally don't care to call myself an atheist or agnostic because I feel religion means so little to me I shouldn't even bother, but I've been reminded of the power that anger can have. And all the reasons I should be angry.

Interesting video, at first I thought it was going to be anti-athiest rather than an ironic talk.

Although most of her examples are specific examples of (what I hope) is a very small minority of Theists. However, an alarmingly high amount of this type of religious-people in positions of power in the US - Land of the free? Whilst I realise much worse things happen in Islamic countries, but the similar problem is religion holds the majority, and so gets the final say.

I'm glad that in the UK religion has a much smaller presence, at least during election times the religion of the front runners isn't normally mentioned. Saying this, we do have problems still, more with individuals than government - for example the Nigerian (?) pair who killed their younger cousin as he wet the bed, so they thought he was possessed.

Is that a problem for Religion or for a clash of Culture though? Where is the line drawn.


--------------

The topic of Aliens has been mentioned, I always thought that the existence of aliens contradicted the bible and therefore stricter christian's beliefs, as all as the creation stories from other religions. If we found evidence of alien life, what would happen to religion? Do you think it would just be included to explain Alien life as 'God's Plan' or do you think there would be a surge in Athiesm? (Or Scientology... Oh no.)

 

[Gamzee]

I think Pudz was commenting on the contradiction in Frost's post: "I am against it but I have nothing against it" - it didn't make much sense to me either tbh but I decided to skip over it in favour of the part I found more interesting :P

Yeah, it's a bit hard to tell what Frost meant. I'm just gonna guess he personally disagrees with it but doesn't believe it should be illegal.

 

[Alice]

I've always believed in aliens as a Christian, although it may just be wishful thinking. Either way, I do hope they exist. :P (Assuming they don't murder us all in our sleep. lol)

I understand that since we originally were supposed to live forever, you could assume that the rest of the universe was to account for our infinite expansion, but I still want some aliens to swoop in and give us a bunch of amazing technology that's hundreds of years ahead of our time. lol

 

[FrostPheonix]

I think Pudz was commenting on the contradiction in Frost's post: "I am against it but I have nothing against it" - it didn't make much sense to me either tbh but I decided to skip over it in favour of the part I found more interesting :P

Yeah, it's a bit hard to tell what Frost meant. I'm just gonna guess he personally disagrees with it but doesn't believe it should be illegal.

Thx there Gamzee ^^ thats what I meant, didn't come out right when I posted....

I don't think that's an intentional direction anybody is steering in, but to be honest in a group of atheists you have to expect that there will be talk about why we think religious people are wrong lol. There will be agreement among us, because we are all from the same lack of faith. That's not at all to say we discourage discussion, but you have to be wary that that's what will happen sometimes, no matter what the topic. We can't help that, it's just realistically what will happen when any group of like-minded people come together.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean we have to, right? I mean, I understand that you guys naturally gravitate to the matter (seen it over and over in the past) but we could talk about something else now that the subject been raised.

I find what you say here interesting. It's been well-established that gay isn't something people choose. That's not a matter of opinion, it is simple fact. Therefore, we can conclude that homosexuality is not a product of free will. So if we aren't choosing to be gay, and it was also not something that God intended, then how does homosexuality exist at all?

Now that you say it, seems like a logical opinion. Never saw it from that way, although I realise being gay isn't choosable. But, heres the theory me and my old bible teacher had:

We believe that Adam and Eve are the first humans to have come on Earth; the first companions of God (not counting angels). Yet, from the moment mankind sinned, our genetic DNA has been spiraling downwards. Mutations in the DNA replication, RNA failures, etc. In the Bible, people used to live 600 years; now, people live to about 100. If they're lucky and have advanced medical treatment. Genetic diseases are starting to come about more and more frequently. I'd say that homosexuality came from somewhere around that spiral downwards. I mean, if God wanted/was all right with homosexuality, he would have mentioned it in the Bible... in biblical times, it was abhorrent to be homosexual. If it was all right, you might think he might have said something to clear things up. And yes, I know people who are homosexual can't help it, but that doesn't mean they have to follow their impulses. A few kids still stay virgin until they marry, the same way, why can't homosexuals practice abstinence? I know some people don't have intercourse ever as well. I myself believe that homosexuality is wrong, but people can choose to believe what they wish. I don't pretend to say I know exactly what God wants, but I think I am saying what he wants right here.

Anyways....

I've always believed in aliens as a Christian, although it may just be wishful thinking. Either way, I do hope they exist. :P (Assuming they don't murder us all in our sleep. lol)

I understand that since we originally were supposed to live forever, you could assume that the rest of the universe was to account for our infinite expansion, but I still want some aliens to swoop in and give us a bunch of amazing technology that's hundreds of years ahead of our time. lol

I think there are aliens... who knows? The Bible doesn't actually refute it, and all of science points towards aliens. At least I'm sure there is microscopic life. Dunno about sentient one tho...

 

[Mana1]

We believe that Adam and Eve are the first humans to have come on Earth; the first companions of God (not counting angels). Yet, from the moment mankind sinned, our genetic DNA has been spiraling downwards. Mutations in the DNA replication, RNA failures, etc. In the Bible, people used to live 600 years; now, people live to about 100. If they're lucky and have advanced medical treatment. Genetic diseases are starting to come about more and more frequently. I'd say that homosexuality came from somewhere around that spiral downwards. I mean, if God wanted/was all right with homosexuality, he would have mentioned it in the Bible... in biblical times, it was abhorrent to be homosexual. If it was all right, you might think he might have said something to clear things up. And yes, I know people who are homosexual can't help it, but that doesn't mean they have to follow their impulses. A few kids still stay virgin until they marry, the same way, why can't homosexuals practice abstinence? I know some people don't have intercourse ever as well. I myself believe that homosexuality is wrong, but people can choose to believe what they wish. I don't pretend to say I know exactly what God wants, but I think I am saying what he wants right here.

In my opinion this train of thought is actually quite dangerous - you are saying genetic mutations are driven by sin? So things like Cancer, etc. are all because the individual, or humans as a whole, are sinful?

"I mean, if God wanted/was all right with homosexuality, he would have mentioned it in the Bible."

Homosexuality came about long before Christianity, the Bible was written by people who by then had to conform to the laws of the land - I'm no expert but I believe Homosexuality was banned in Jewish countries and such around the time of Christs supposed birth, but the Roman's were quite OK with it. Just because it wasn't mentioned doesn't mean it was viewed as disgusting.

Also, whilst I'm still in a semi angry state, this is my #1 Christian Pet Peeve:

"I don't pretend to say I know exactly what God wants, but I think I am saying what he wants right here."

Read as: "I don't know what God wants, but I'd guess it's exactly how I feel - and so I'll condemn you in his name."