back to basics, an offensivish team

[Valarauca]

Well seeing as my first 2 offensive teams would burn out at a blaze of glory on the smogon ladder. I decided to make a new team that would not 'hopefully' die out so quick. So i made my 3rd sweeper team, after changing 1 pokemon (failvire) and 2 moves (salamence), i found a version that works so here it is. All harsh comments (except the word noob) will be read and more then likely followed...

Gyarados @ leftovers
adamant
Ev:72hp, 252 att, 184 spe
~ dragon dance
~ earthquake
~ water fall
~ taunt
I love this guy, its a nice start to a match because right here, right now, are you gyara weak? hope so. Anyways we all know tauntdos; dragon dancing, taunting set up fodder, and sweeping. This guy is not a suicide lead, i want to keep him around for late because he can counter stuff in the late game.

Infernape @ life orb
naive
Ev: 252 spe, 232 spA, 24 att
~ nasty plot
~ close combat
~ grass knot
~ flamethrower
The classic mixsweeper, nice in late or any point in the game once starmie and vapporeon are out of the game. Fear the ape thats all I'm saying

Dugtrio @ choice band
Jolly
Ev: 252 att, 252 spe, 4 hp
~ earthquake
~ sucker punch
~ Aerial Ace
~ rock slide
Look ma' no Electivire, Yes i removed for dugtrio, he can still absorb those costly electric moves that plague 3 oh my team but guess what, then their trapped, its devilish, and so funny when dugtrio gets 2 or more ko's during a match, this little guy is nice, and is a good insurance policy...

Vaporeon @ leftovers
bold
Ev: 188 hp, 252 def, 68 spA
~ wish
~ surf
~ ice beam
~ hp electric
I didn't want to lose some offensive power by putting in protect. This blue dog can counter so much stuff, just having him lets me worry less about physical sweepers

Snorlax @ choice band
adamant
Ev: 252 hp, 252 spD, 4 att
~ crunch
~ earthquake
~ body slam
~ ice/thunder punch
Not sure which to use (you all know what this guy does, i hope)

Salamence @ leftovers
bold
Ev; 216 hp, 252 def, 40 spe
~ draco meteor
~ flamethrower
~ toxic
~ roost
Ok, nice guy counters lucario and heracross. I was going for brick break to make a blissey think twice about walling me, but then some carry ice beam so i was gonna go for toxic, well just tell me what you think. just did a battle with toxic, so yeah toxic ftw


that the team tell me what you think

 

[Skip Shot]

Sigh...

Underdude, you made one fine rate when you said Gyarados should go Aqua Tail. Other than that, I find a lot of mistakes in your rating. CB Dugtrio shouldn't be carrying a special move(aka Earth Power). It's Spa is too pathetic for that. Also, Tauntdos is a rlly good lead, and Mixape should be able to stay. The only recommendation for Mixape is that you might want to opt All-out Mixape with either HP Ice or Electric.(that means remove NP)
Mence, Lax, and WishVappy look fine, but do consider BB back on mixmence. If they carry Ice Beam, ur dead if u toxic them or not. Also, this team needs a little status support.(not absorbing status, but dishing it out) You could opt for a parafusionist on the team somehwere.

 

[StrickeN]

I'll edit in bold as well

Well seeing as my first 2 offensive teams would burn out at a blaze of glory on the smogon ladder. I decided to make a new team that would not 'hopefully' die out so quick. So i made my 3rd sweeper team, after changing 1 pokemon (failvire) and 2 moves (salamence), i found a version that works so here it is. All harsh comments (except the word noob) will be read and more then likely followed...

Gyarados @ leftovers
adamant/Jolly The speed boost helps to outspeed some whack leads, plus the assurance of tauning a person setting up is always nice.
Ev:72hp, 252 att, 184 spe
~ dragon dance
~ earthquake
~ water fall
~ taunt
I love this guy, its a nice start to a match because right here, right now, are you gyara weak? hope so. Anyways we all know tauntdos; dragon dancing, taunting set up fodder, and sweeping. This guy is not a suicide lead, i want to keep him around for late because he can counter stuff in the late game.

Infernape @ life orb
naive
Ev: 252 spe, 220 spA, 36 att 36 attack with orb GUARENTEES a OHKO on bliss
~ HP Ice, HP ice over Nasty plot for one reason, mence / chomp pull ins. Although GK does good damage to the chomp, HP ice is prefered as it will OHKO a lot of dragons who other wise wall you. (mence gets a restistance to ALLL of your attacks)
~ close combat
~ grass knot
~ flamethrower
The classic mixsweeper, nice in late or any point in the game once starmie and vapporeon are out of the game. Fear the ape thats all I'm saying

Dugtrio @ choice band
Jolly/Adament
Ev: 252 att, 252 spe, 4 hp
~ earthquake
~ sucker punch
~ Aerial Ace
~ rock slide
Look ma' no Electivire, Yes i removed for dugtrio, he can still absorb those costly electric moves that plague 3 oh my team but guess what, then their trapped, its devilish, and so funny when dugtrio gets 2 or more ko's during a match, this little guy is nice, and is a good insurance policy...
Fine, you MIGHT want to consider adament, as it ensures a 2HKO on bliss :)

Vaporeon @ leftovers
bold
Ev: 188 hp, 252 def, 68 spA
~ wish
~ surf
~ ice beam/HP Electric
~ Toxic You've seen the stall wars these days? Come prepared, Vaporeon can be an excellent staller with wish/toxic.
I didn't want to lose some offensive power by putting in protect. This blue dog can counter so much stuff, just having him lets me worry less about physical sweepers

Snorlax @ choice band
adamant
Ev: 252 hp, 252 spD, 4 att
~ crunch
~ earthquake
~ body slam
~ thunder punch
Not sure which to use (you all know what this guy does, i hope)
Ice punch is outdated on this thing. Tpunch for gyara pull ins.

Salamence @ leftovers
Naive, bold is out classed by some extra speed, not to mention this allows him to be a bit more offensive with his defense. (mixed)
Ev; 216 hp, 252 def, 40 spe
~ draco meteor
~ flamethrower
~ Brick Break / Thunder Fang, This guy doesn't need bold, with intimidate and 252 def with 216 HP he stops some hits pretty nicely as is. Making him bold is suicidal. Plus the mixness of this is nice. BB is not for Blisseys lol, it's for TTar, plus you'll just switch after ONE Draco meteor to begin with, as you won't do much with the current EV spread
~ roost
Ok, nice guy counters lucario and heracross. I was going for brick break to make a blissey think twice about walling me, but then some carry ice beam so i was gonna go for toxic, well just tell me what you think. just did a battle with toxic, so yeah toxic ftw


that the team tell me what you think

The team isn't too bad, 6/10 imo, you'd win some, but it needs a slight bit of work.

 

[sims796]

Oh my God. So many terrible rates in one thread.

First off, straight from the rules, only noobs do number rates. Only noobs. Yeah, I said it. No, not to the thread maker, to the rates.

Second, that is a terrible Gyarados lead. Set up leads are epic phailure. They are easy to block, and the surprise is ruined early on. Plus, that set is easy to wall. It's beaten by dragons, & anything else with Intiidate and/or a flying type (ahem, Gya). Not to mention it's weak. It's less bulky than the bulkydos spread, &U weaker than the Life Orb Dos spread.

This team gets it's ass kicked by Gengar, & you suggest elemental punches? Go Crunch. Seriously, he has no place fighting Dragons, or even Gya.

Rock Slide on Duggy are for sweet sixteeners with broken nails. Useless& fustratingly annoying. Stone Edge or GTFO >.<

Wait, JOLLY on GYA? Guess you don't want him to hit hard. Aqua Tail is a tad too risky. One miss could mean death to Gya, & he appreciates the Flinch rate of Waterfall over a tad more power & a tad less accuracy :\

EDIT:Wait, that was a Choice Lax? So why did somebody give it aResttalk spread?

 

[BeachBoy]

... T_T

What the snapple? MixApe is a heck of a lot more effective. Earth Power on a physical Dugtrio? I'll just delete that one. >> Seriously, do NOT rate without proper knowledge. How many times do we have to stress this? And if I see another number rate I'll flip.

If you do not have proper metagame knowledge, don't rate, it's not getting anyone anywhere but backwards. And don't give a number rate. :|

 

[StrickeN]

I appologize for the Jolly gyara thing, me and a few guys were thinking of seeing how it works, thought i'd post the idea :P I wasn't saying use jolly over adament I was just thinking it might help with the speed over some of the other leads.

Oh and the Tpunch thing, was because he's banded if I read right, and tpunch banded will 2HKO a gar any way, and is nice for "gyara" as I've already pointed out.

 

[sims796]

I awas actually replying to hard's post, but had T-Punch over Ice Punch. Didn't bother to change it.

Regardless, never post ideas without actually testing them. Gya has DD for speed, but he needs the attack power. Gya alone doesn't make the best lead IMO, especially since his original set is crappy.

 

[Valarauca]

To summerize;

Gyara; love it hate why if i get enough resistance it will be change, but tell me WHY!

Hard; yes i need status i was thinking of adding machamp over infernape, anyone know a good move set?

hard; if you could re rate, i didn't see it i was at skhool

sims; i have balls so stone edge over rock slide and let hax deal with it

Everyone; please no stupid rates, I'm still looking for accual suggestion about my team not a fight, so please only point out errors, if some has before, then don't. I don't need it stated by every person, I may be a noob but i know few things...

Things that i will do

None that great beside replacing infernape with something better (noguard machamp?).

Gyara with stone edge over earthquake (2hko's vappy)

 

[StrickeN]

No one told you to replace your MixApe, <,<

if thats all you got out of what i said, then idk...

 

[Valarauca]

no one did but the one good rate that i got was that i need a parafusionist, machamp can fill that in a sense that with dynamic punch and thunder punch bot carry decent roles, but i need some status, and I'm not getting it from the current team, also mixape seams to be a weak point in my team one that normally dies to his reputation everyone knows what counters mixape and what to use so yeah he will be leaving...

Aslo hp ice over AA because i need to do around 50% to chomp to get the Ko after a vappy ice beam...

 

[StrickeN]

Who told you to replace AA with HP Ice? I didn't read anything about it.

My rate was NOT bad, I did give you good advice, all but the Jolly Gyara thing. That was just an Idea for a lead Gyara. But w/e you dont' want to listen? Fine

Oh and you might want to pay attention, Tpunch isn't a guarenteed paralyzation, and Dpunch, is just simply confusion, so you're relying on luck. so how could he make a good parafusionist?

I even told you to put Toxic on your vappy and choose ice beam or HP electric <,<

I suggest you read the quote, and stop being egotistical and thinking that every one is giving you bad advice :o

 

[.]

Gyarados @ leftovers
adamant
Ev:72hp, 252 att, 184 spe
~ dragon dance
~ earthquake Stone Edge
~ water fall
~ taunt

Blegh, I prefer Stone Edge on this guy. SE/Waterfall hits all the OU dragons for normal effective (super effective counting Mence/Nite) and it doesn't let you become set up fodder to other Gyara I really dislike this guy; doesn't hit hard at all, and since you already have Salamence walling Hera and Luke, he has no real purpose on this team.

Infernape @ life orb
naive
Ev: 252 spe, 232 spA, 24 att
~ nasty plot
~ close combat
~ grass knot
~ flamethrower

Standard

Dugtrio @ choice band
Jolly
Ev: 252 att, 252 spe, 4 hp
~ earthquake
~ sucker punch
~ Aerial Ace
~ rock slide

Stone Edge now. Rock Slide was usable only in ADV; it's worthless in todays metagame when there's the stronger Stone Edge. Again; standard.

Vaporeon @ leftovers
bold
Ev: 188 hp, 252 def, 68 spA
~ wish
~ surf
~ ice beam
~ hp electric

Standaaaaaaaaaard!

Snorlax @ choice band
adamant
Ev: 252 hp, 252 spD, 4 att
~ crunch
~ earthquake
~ body slam
~ ice/thunder punch

Eww, no. Either opt for Pursuit > Ice/Thunderpunch or Selfdestruct > Ice Thunderpunch. If you're using ANY punch, use Fire Punch for floating steels (that's right Bronzong, I'm looking at you)

Salamence @ leftovers
bold
Ev; 216 hp, 252 def, 40 spe
~ draco meteor
~ flamethrower
~ toxic
~ roost

Standaaaaaaaaaaaard!


that the team tell me what you think

BulkyGyara and BulkyMence is too redundant. Replace BulkyGyara for sweeper Gyara or BulkyMence for sweeper Mence. As for the lead, blegh, try out Salamence (if Bulky) or keep Gyara (if Bulky) Even still, you have an unhealthy weakness to Gengar. It doesn't get trapped by Duggy, and scores super effective hits on all of your team members bar Infernape. I'd honestly replace BulkyMence or BulkyGyara for something like Rest-Talk Zapdos to handle things like Gengar and the other special sweepers more freely.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Calm
252 HP/220 SpD/36 Spe
Rest/Roost
Sleep Talk
Discharge/Tbolt
HP Ice/Roar

 

[Valarauca]

I take all advise into careful consideration, I also take advise from myself as i actively test my team i will posting things that i would like the general community to help me on due to the fact that i feel that i am unsure of which to do becase both sides have thier ups and downs.

On your points...

tpunch not 100% para, duh

no toxic i have been in several stall wars and won so far, i need a good status'er

zapdos over gyarados, seams good and well justified

 

[sims796]

Then apparently, you don't know the differnce between a good rate & a bad one. You don't possibly think that parafusionist is good, do you? There was no fight, the mod handled it quickly, hell, I'm the one who reported. I told you all the weaknesses, and Vance & I gave you the best rate thus far.

I don't see what CBLax is doing for this team, that any other poke here can't do. Especially Bulkymence. Especially with that EV spread. Not a point in attack, you won't hurt a Fly-gon.

 

[Anti]

Why is half of this thread about rating rates lol

CBlax set is weird. Use:

Snorlax @ Choice Band
Trait: Thick Fat (though Immunity can be helpful on a team as Toxic Spikes weak as this one)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Selfdestruct

imo the most useful CBlax set you're going to use. Selfdestruct pretty much kills any non-ghost (small chance to OHKO standard Skarmory, rofl).

I question the usefulness of Salamence on this team since Gyarados makes a decent enough fighting resist, and what it loses to (Stone Edge) Salamence does too. That Gyarados set is a mix of two totally different sets though. Either use it to sweep or don't (though in theory bulkygyara can sweep, it really can't lol).

 

[Skip Shot]

I awas actually replying to hard's post, but had T-Punch over Ice Punch. Didn't bother to change it.

Regardless, never post ideas without actually testing them. Gya has DD for speed, but he needs the attack power. Gya alone doesn't make the best lead IMO, especially since his original set is crappy.

*Goes to sob in little corner*

Anyways...

WHen I was looking at Tauntdos, I sorta scanned over it, didnt take a look at EVs. Besides that, i think the rate was fine. Earth Power DOES suck on Duggy.

In response to everyone else...

RestTalk Zapdos could work on this team. However, this team has a bad all-out Mixape/Gar weakness, especially if Gyara is gone. Zapdos might not be able to help with that.

Also, on the parafusionist quotes, some good parafusionists(not the ultimate number one best) are:

Lanturn(whos UU, but can still work)
Gardevoir
Starmie( who has better uses IMO)

That's all I can think of right now. I currently have a parafusionist Gardy on my off. team, and it helps out a lot, especially late-game when I get to fight a bunch of paralyzed pokes.

To Sims...

Well, that Bulkymence set wouldn't OHKO a Trapinch with a Boosted Dragon Claw, and I agree on he fact of Mence and Gyara.Anti Pop's Lax set should work, then bring in Gardy>> Mence for a parafusionist and lead with him, and maybe turn Gyara into a DD LO. That gives u a status'er, and Gyara can give another sweeper. No, I don't think parafusionists are freakin awesome sims. However, offensive teams need some status support to help sweep.

2 teams to consider to use(either one is fine)

Lead: Gardy parafusionist
Mixape
DD Gyara
CB Duggy
Wish Vappy
CB Lax

However, that team is too physically offensive, and gets walled when Vappy is gone.

Lead: Anti-Lead Ape
Gardy parafusionist
CB Duggy
Wish Vappy
ScarfGar/Tran
CB Lax

RestTalk Dos could go over Lax on either of those IMO.

 

[sims796]

Why is half of this thread about rating rates lol

CBlax set is weird. Use:

Snorlax @ Choice Band
Trait: Thick Fat (though Immunity can be helpful on a team as Toxic Spikes weak as this one)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Selfdestruct

imo the most useful CBlax set you're going to use. Selfdestruct pretty much kills any non-ghost (small chance to OHKO standard Skarmory, rofl).

I question the usefulness of Salamence on this team since Gyarados makes a decent enough fighting resist, and what it loses to (Stone Edge) Salamence does too. That Gyarados set is a mix of two totally different sets though. Either use it to sweep or don't (though in theory bulkygyara can sweep, it really can't lol).

That's because most rates were bad, and Beach & I covered it. Then you guys keep bringing it up. Another reason why we get a flood of bad rates. You raters let these things slide.

Please, pay attention to other posts, cause Gya has been covered by Vance & I, and the OP resolved to replace Gya altogether.


But this team has no sort of synergy. I don't see what Lax is really acomplishing here.


Now that that's out of the way, I don't see why you need a statuser so bad, this is not a stall team. Machamp would take out your only real means of sp.atk. So no, don't use him.If you really knew a rate, you'd see that, as been said more than once,you lacks any real of sp.atk.


Now, first off, Parafusion sucks. Plain & simple. Confuse "status" sucks.

Zapdos rips Mixape apart. I see no problem there at all, especially since HP ICE Napes lack Nasty Plot.

Plenty of offensive teams go without status, and that is the least of his concern.

Take another look at your post. Tauntdos is an awful lead. Aqua Tail sucks.


Bad enough the original poster doesn't know good advice, as he has gone through this whole thread, and only picked up crap.

 

[Angelic Diablo]

That vaporeon set works a whole lot better with a Choice Specs attached, makes it much better and countering Garchomp for one, Infernape and Gyarados stand next to no chance.

Yes I know Wish is in the moveset, but more often than not your switching out after using Wish anyway

 

[Anti]

That's because most rates were bad, and Beach & I covered it. Then you guys keep bringing it up. Another reason why we get a flood of bad rates. You raters let these things slide.

Please, pay attention to other posts, cause Gya has been covered by Vance & I, and the OP resolved to replace Gya altogether.

I always thought that the best way was to let the moderators handle it and not minimod? Not to mention that it wasn't meant to be taken seriously but whatever >_>

I skimmed what you guys said but the thread starter didn't make any changes so I don't really see how agreeing with you guys on Gyarados hurts anything =/

Also, I disagree with you on Snorlax. Without it, Life Orb Starmie 6-0s this team. Nothing can revenge kill, counter, OR check it, and that goes for pretty much any other special attacker. Gengar, Azelf...how is Snorlax NOT needed exactly? This team is weak to practically every special attacker in the game...Snorlax is the last thing to get rid of.

In other words, I really oppose getting rid of Snorlax. That pretty much kills your only defenses against the long list of special attackers that CREAM your team otherwise.

As mentioned earlier, Salamence or Gyarados should probably go. It doesn't really matter since they're both doing the same thing. I'd put in a better rock resist than Gyarados, since DDtar just gives you a whole mess of trouble. Bronzong would really help sturdy up this team imo

 

[.]

How would Mixape/Gengar rip this team apart of Rest-Talk Zapdos is on it, hardcorerock?