back to basics, an offensivish team

[sims796]

I always thought that the best way was to let the moderators handle it and not minimod? Not to mention that it wasn't meant to be taken seriously but whatever >_>

I skimmed what you guys said but the thread starter didn't make any changes so I don't really see how agreeing with you guys on Gyarados hurts anything =/When you don't pay attention to all posts, you're just reiterating old infomation. That hurts more than helps.

Also, I disagree with you on Snorlax. Without it, Life Orb Starmie 6-0s this team. Nothing can revenge kill, counter, OR check it, and that goes for pretty much any other special attacker. Gengar, Azelf...how is Snorlax NOT needed exactly? This team is weak to practically every special attacker in the game...Snorlax is the last thing to get rid of.

In other words, I really oppose getting rid of Snorlax. That pretty much kills your only defenses against the long list of special attackers that CREAM your team otherwise.

As mentioned earlier, Salamence or Gyarados should probably go. It doesn't really matter since they're both doing the same thing. I'd put in a better rock resist than Gyarados, since DDtar just gives you a whole mess of trouble. Bronzong would really help sturdy up this team imo

However, explaining to raters why their rates are bad is not the same as minimoding. Rather than ignoring them, & allowing them to take place, you could try explaining, or reporting, which I did. If you can see that half the team is "rating rates", you could do more than skim the posts. Just because he didn't edit his first post, doesn't mean that changes weren't made.


If his defenses is that bad, CB Lax is the last thing he needs. It does not wall special attackers none too well at all, and does not help with his crippling weakness. The OP said that Resttalk Zapdos is taking Gya's place, so it would do well not to mention it again. If a special defensive zappy is here, Lax is not needed as much. If you would read other posts, I wouldn't need to explain.

EDIT:Wait, doesn't CB Duggy stop Starmie cold with Sucker Punch?

 

[Anti]

Starmie can easily Recover stall it. CB Dugtrio isn't going to stop Starmie unless it's at low health and Dugtrio catches it on the revenge with Earthquake, which isn't likely.

I've read the other posts. What I'm saying is that Zapdos is not going to stop those threats bar Gengar (and the new SubPunch set beats most Resttalk Zapdos anyways). With Stealth Rock though, Zapdos is skating on rather thin ice. Snorlax is MUCH more reliable. CBlax is plenty capable of taking all kinds of special attacks considering it uses 252 SDef EVs. Zapdos isn't going to solve the special attacker problem, ESPECIALLY the ones this team is weak to (like Starmie, which 2HKOs it with Ice Beam).

I get what you're saying...it's not that I don't get it. It's that I totally disagree. I don't know how exactly reiterating/agreeing with someone hurts the thread maker. It's not like my entire post was reiterating - if it was I'd see your point. Posting a sentence to agree isn't hurting anything >_>

And like I said, it was mostly a joke, AKA something that SHOULD NOT be taken seriously lol...

I still don't see how Zapdos magically solves this team's problems. It solves some of them, but Snorlax solves more of them. On the special defensive side, Snorlax is far more sturdy than Zapdos, even running a CB set.

I love special defensive resttalk zapdos and it's actually on a lot of my teams. Snorlax is going to be a lot more helpful than it in this instance.All this team is really Salamence weak (the ones with Dracom Meteor, anyways). Bronzong to take those attacks, beat Mamoswine (who oh by the way really rapes this team), and provide a lot of support that this team just could really use.

I will reiterate, Zapdos DOES NOT solve this team's problems. Snorlax can take the special hits that this team can't take a lot better than Zapdos.

It's not like I'm clueless and totally ignored what you guys said. I skimmed it and know what you suggested. I just disagree with using Resttalk Zapdos over Snorlax for this team's problems since Snorlax helps more. It's so much more sturdy...it's not even close.

Again, I feel Bronzong would be a better fit over Zapdos, seeing as Snorlax can carry the load with special attackers (considering this is an offensive team).

 

[sims796]

For one thing, reiterating "lose Gya or Salamence" after the thread maker has already said that Gya would be replaced is a waste of everyone's time. Posting a sentence to agree doesn't hurt. Unless, of course, it's being redundant. Saying the exact same thing as Vance with different wording does no one favors. Less skimming & paying attention to the first post, more reading. And of course, giving a set, which was the only "helpful" thing.

Now, CBLax is derived on what it is meant to do, & that is to soley take special attacks. It lacks the HP to survive most encounters. Yeah, it hits hard, who give a crap, when it is very easy to play against. I'd rather it be something whose sole purpose was to wall special attacks, as CB Snorlax doesn't beat all special attackers, what with so many special fighting moves that goes against it, & no reliable way of healing. And of course, Zapdos goes over Gyarados, not Lax. I'd think Cressy could possibly go over Lax. One with T-Wave, of course, since he really seems to want status. I'm not saying Lax is bad, but not for this team.

If we were to use Zong, he'd have no status absorber at all. Which destroys this entire team, barring of course, Duggy, if that matters.

Infernape handles Mamo quite well.

As for the "joke", all I did was answer it.

 

[Glitter Stain]

Now, CBLax is derived on what it is meant to do, & that is to soley take special attacks. It lacks the HP to survive most encounters.

Please, never EVER say anything like that again. Snorlax's base HP is 160.

 

[sims796]

And without proper EVs, it goes to waste.

 

[Glitter Stain]

And without proper EVs, it goes to waste.

No, it doesn't. You could allocate EVs to Snorlax's HP anywhere from 4 to 244 of them. It still has the fourth highest HP of any Pokemon in the Uber, OU, or UU metagame.

 

[.]

Just a little nitpick, but I kind of agree with sims. CBLax doesn't take Special Attacks as well as others, however, it takes 49.78%-58.87% from a LO Focus Blast from Gengar, which is slightly impressive for some, and slightly depressing for others.

 

[Anti]

Yeah I'm saying that Zapdos + Snorlax is redundant...lol.

Snorlax's minimum HP is more than Zapdos's max BTW, and it has Wish support. CBlax is anything but easy to play against...

Snorlax has 462 HP/319 SDef with its standard CBlax spread. Zapdos has 384 HP/306 SDef, not to mention a weakness to Ice Beam and Stealth Rock. How is Zapdos more reliable besides "it can absorb status."

I mean really Machamp would be better than Zapdos...at least it provides a rock resist that doesn't suck and better Tyranitar coverage.

Zapdos is statistically inferior and Snorlax hits WAY harder, and has no damaging weaknesses (and good luck to fighters switching in who take 80% from CB Body Slam and have a 30% chance of getting paralyzed). Witghout Snorlax, this team is 6-0ed by Life Orb Starmie and other special attackers.

Zapdos is the wrong status absorber for this team. It helps with Gengar and that's really it. A lot of pokemon can do that lol

Also when I skimmed it, I knew what you guys suggested. If I'm hurting the thread starter so much for simply agreeing with you and KT then report me and leave it at that, because I'm honestly tired of hearing about it when I'm only trying to help the thread starter yet I'm being mobbed with complaints about what I'm doing wrong.

 

[sims796]

Ok,then let's do some calcs, shall we?

Without max HP, an Azelf with NP does

Defender HP: 461
Move Damage: 222 - 261
Damage: 48.16% - 56.62%
With HP Fighting. A 2hko, without Lefties, of course.


With full HP EVs, as if it would have that, it would do

Defender HP: 524
Move Damage: 222 - 261
Damage: 42.37% - 49.81%

A 3hko, without lefties. So those EVs really matter.


Of course, Azelf does gives this team serious trouble, ironically.

EDIT:Try looking at your first post that you posted, & tell me that was at all helpful. What is redunant was that post, which is what I was referencing. Seriously, like a brick wall.

I question the usefulness of Salamence on this team since Gyarados makes a decent enough fighting resist, and what it loses to (Stone Edge) Salamence does too. That Gyarados set is a mix of two totally different sets though. Either use it to sweep or don't (though in theory bulkygyara can sweep, it really can't lol).

Ipitomy of redundant. Two posts after he had just said "I'm getting rid of Gya". And the reason you sould read more, skim less.

EDIT 2:Of course, Lax does not have any way of healing. So that must be taken into account.Let alone I just said Cressy works better.

 

[Anti]

Three things:

1. Azelf rarely carries HP Fighting and it takes a ton from Snorlax's CB attacks anyways (OHKOing in some cases).

2. Snorlax has recovery in the form of Wish support.

3. Listen to me and listen to me now. for the LAST TIME, I skimmed that and missed what it said, and considering the first post wasn't updated I figured agreeing with you to reinforce the point wouldn't hurt. I guess that is "hurting the thread starter" now but seriously, freaking out over the slightest mistake isn't really a whole lot better. I don't know what you plan to accomplish arguing with me about something as trivial as this, but it's really getting on my last nerve and it's totally unnecessary and uncalled for.

Also, that isn't what redundancy is but whatever...

 

[BeachBoy]

sims, you're going way too far. Here you are criticizing others down to the bone, gets us nowhere. (Seriously, so he missed a post, give a guy a break) Get back on topic and give some rates that improve shadow's team. =/

 

[sims796]

Three things:

1. Azelf rarely carries HP Fighting and it takes a ton from Snorlax's CB attacks anyways (OHKOing in some cases).

2. Snorlax has recovery in the form of Wish support.

3. Listen to me and listen to me now. for the LAST TIME, I skimmed that and missed what it said, and considering the first post wasn't updated I figured agreeing with you to reinforce the point wouldn't hurt. I guess that is "hurting the thread starter" now but seriously, freaking out over the slightest mistake isn't really a whole lot better. I don't know what you plan to accomplish arguing with me about something as trivial as this, but it's really getting on my last nerve and it's totally unnecessary and uncalled for.

Also, that isn't what redundancy is but whatever...

For one thing, an NP Psychic is also capable of 2hko'ing Lax.

Second, Wish is highly unreliable, so that isn't real recovery.

Now you try listening. Maybe if you spent alittle less time arguing & a bit more listening, you'd get my point. I simply called you out on it, as there were a string of bad rates. I wasn't "freaking out", I was tired of so many bad rates, and rates that basically broke the rules. I HEARD THAT YOU SKIMMED. As I said, three times, you shouldn't have, which was the point of the rant in general, yet you kept refuting that. You kept arguing back about how you didn't miss a point. Re-read my posts. You kept arguing, completely ignoring what I've been saying.

I've read the other posts. What I'm saying is that Zapdos is not going to stop those threats bar Gengar (and the new SubPunch set beats most Resttalk Zapdos anyways). With Stealth Rock though, Zapdos is skating on rather thin ice. Snorlax is MUCH more reliable. CBlax is plenty capable of taking all kinds of special attacks considering it uses 252 SDef EVs. Zapdos isn't going to solve the special attacker problem, ESPECIALLY the ones this team is weak to (like Starmie, which 2HKOs it with Ice Beam).

As mentioned earlier, Salamence or Gyarados should probably go. It doesn't really matter since they're both doing the same thing. I'd put in a better rock resist than Gyarados, since DDtar just gives you a whole mess of trouble. Bronzong would really help sturdy up this team imo

Also when I skimmed it, I knew what you guys suggested. If I'm hurting the thread starter so much for simply agreeing with you and KT then report me and leave it at that, because I'm honestly tired of hearing about it when I'm only trying to help the thread starter yet I'm being mobbed with complaints about what I'm doing wrong.

If you had stopped arguing from the beginning (as you missed my point somewhere in the middle), you'd see what I mean. I wasn't doing it to get on your nerves, I couldn't care less. But if you wanna keep arguing over "nothing", then this happens, & it gets drawn out.


Now, as for the team, as Vance & I said, CBLax isn't great as a special absorber. He doesn't stop Azelf much at all. Maybe one with Resttalk, but definately not CB. NastyPlot Azelf does somewhere between 46%-54% damage to Lax with Psychic. Cressila can help slow things down, & put up an awesome Reflect, whist stopping any major threats to this team.


EDIT:Beaten by Beachboy.

If anybody taken time to notice, I've been giving advice. But if he wants to continue arguing, so can I. Seriously, it isn't that he missed the point which got me mad, it's that he missed the point, then kept arguing that he DIDN'T miss a point. & yeah, doing something that isn't really needed is the definition redundant, but whatever...

 

[Skip Shot]

I am hopelessly lost. What I've somehow gleaned from all this is:

Zapdos is going over Gyara.

K, so everyone's been fighting over RestTalk Zappy CBLax andother things while I've been fighting for water polo ballz, so Ima just take a look at main post, all of o.p's posts, and make comments.

you might want to consider ScarfZappy with Drill Peck, U-Turn, T-Bolt, and (ugh I forgot the 4th move). Make him ur lead. This means that if Zappy comes in l8er, SR is going to screw it. Maybe a spinner for some help out there, maybe Star?

CB Lax should have the moves Anti put up somehwere, and 252 HP. Gives u moarsurvivability against annoying F-Blasters like Specs Luke, ScarfGar and such.

 

[sims796]

I don't see how ScarfZappy is really gonna help. I mean, yeah, it gets him much needed speed, but so does T-Wave.

And Giving Lax 252 HP won't help his survivabilty. To do daamage, he needs max Attack. That means 252 EV must go somewhere else. Either with Sp.Def or HP, it won't help his survivability. As I've been saying, Cressy, Calm Mind or otherwise, would be a huge benifit over Lax.

 

[luke]

Seriously, if I see another thread like this ever again, there will be infractions handed out.

Sims, Anti, this is directed at you specifically. For the year I've been a Moderator / Super Moderator, you two have been very prone to this behavior. Either grow up a little or expect my wrath. I'm tired of it and have put up with it longer than I should of.

 

[Valarauca]

OK, lets end this like apostle stated. Pointblank, heres the team

Tauntdos
Mixape
Duggy
Vappy
Salamence
Cblax

Now just post that, quote and bold what you want to be replaced, don't talk to each other or mention anything about each others posts, please and thank you shadow...

 

[Skip Shot]

I would say that Tauntdos is a little bit expected as a lead now. You might run into a little trouble using it. Crobat can make a nice lead with Air Slash/ Roost/ Hypnosis/ Taunt, as it can stop ppl from setting up, inflict status, and dish out damage.

I prefer all-out mixape over NP ape, just put HP Ice/Electric over NP.

Duggy has Stone Edge, right? If not, put it over Rock Slide.

that CB lax is walled by steels, especially Zong. Fire Punch/EQ/Return or Body Slam/ Crunch can work.

Other than that, the team looks fine.

Currently, I would have:

Crobat
BulkyMence
CB Duggy
CB lax
All-out Mixape
Wish Vappy