Chit-Chat: Back to the Grind(stone)

[machomuu]

I don't know about other Tales games, macho. Since I haven't played any of those. Zestiria, although not as beloved as the other Tales games as far as the story or characters goes, is still regarded as a welcome change from the style of gameplay most Tales games have had before it. It's the latest one. I believe its probably quite a bit different than your average Tales game since the combat depth, I found, was staggering - you could play it pretty much however you want since it worked as both a buttonmashy action game and also as one where you could really plan stuff - and felt really good. And this is coming from a hardcore back n slash fan (a huge dmc, mgr:rising etc fan). The other aspects of the game aren't as appealing but the combat is top notch. I think the other Tales games are probably much better in other aspects but combat probably is superior in Zestiria. So give this game a shot if you can. Or try the demo if its available. Just to check the combat out at least. :p

Will do, and it being on Steam makes it all that much easier. I'll pick it up during a sale, sometime.

hey all! i hope im not intruding on anything, but i really want to know if disgaea 5 would be worth picking up...after watching some video reviews, im really really tempted and it seems like it'd be endless hours of fun (I've played disgaea 1 and had a lot of fun with it), but im still rather unsure. D:

Any particular reason you're jumping from 1 to 5?

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the four entries in the middle are definitely worth playing. 4's considered the best (and I'd agree with that; great cast, fun characters, and its music was leagues ahead of 3's, plus it had just the most post-game content), 3 is something of a departure for the series as we knew it but was fun in its freshness. 2's my personal favorite and if you're used to 1, this one's easy to get into. Though the cast isn't particularly great (the greatest hits being Adell and Rozalin, I'd say. And the parents), it probably has the largest number of good songs I've seen from the games' OSTs (Sinful Rose and Cyber Dance come to mind) and the story's pretty engaging. Then there's D2. Yup.

But if you really don't want to worry about any of those and just want to know about D5, I'd imagine you would like it a lot if you liked D1. Moreso if the only game you've played is D1, as it will feel a lot more fresh as a result. I'd personally recommend you play at least Disgaea 4 (the Vita version, if you can), but yeah, 5'd be worth picking up.

 

[derozio]

Will do, and it being on Steam makes it all that much easier. I'll pick it up during a sale, sometime.

It takes a good amount of time to really take off, though - till you get all your "partners" - that's when you're fully able to utilize the system to the fullest. and the game takes its sweet time. So do be patient with it whenever you start on it, lol. Although you'll probably notice that the combat is pretty damn fun right away so there's that, too.

Also, @Disgaea - Would you consider it another one of the cases of turn based RPGs done right? I don't know, I tried playing some of the PSP versions of Disgaea hoping for them to be somewhat similar to Persona 3 Portable (one of the best games I've EVER played. Period.) but it ended up being really different combat-wise so I kinda just left it. Is it reaaally worth playing? Like, I can see you're a fan but for someone entirely new to these kinds of games, is it?

 

[machomuu]

Also, @Disgaea - Would you consider it another one of the cases of turn based RPGs done right? I don't know, I tried playing some of the PSP versions of Disgaea hoping for them to be somewhat similar to Persona 3 Portable (one of the best games I've EVER played. Period.) but it ended up being really different combat-wise so I kinda just left it. Is it reaaally worth playing? Like, I can see you're a fan but for someone entirely new to these kinds of games, is it?

Disgaea's something of a different beast entirely. Being a Turn-Based Strategy RPG, it's relatively difficult to make a game that isn't inherently dynamic. Unless you're grinding (which you will, but I can safely say that Disgaea's one of the few franchises out there that handles grinding correctly), you won't be going through motions, and repetition's a lot less of an issue because even if the battles somehow get boring after a time, there's a lot to do in the way of character customization and other things to do.

Would I recommend it to someone who's new to Turn-Based strategies?...I want to say yes. Though the concepts behind the genre might be a bit difficult to get into, Disgaea does have a on-the-surface simplicity about it that doesn't alienate those that don't want to delve into the nitty-gritty. In a lot of ways, I'd say it's easy to get into. Granted, I do feel that there are various pieces of information that should have been explained more thoroughly. Or at all. But they're fun and definitely have an entry-level simplicity about them. And they won't kick your ass immediately (seriously, if you're new to SRPGs, probably not best to start with the Devil Survivor games- but do play them because they have some pretty great stories and are a lot of fun).

If you are worried about not being able to get into them, some good gateway games are Pokemon Conquest, Fire Emblem, and Final Fantasy Tactics (Advance or otherwise). These are all great games that are simpler than Disgaea and might be a good way to ease into the series. Granted, they're a lot more like each other than they are Disgaea, but they can help to get you into the mindset.

 

[derozio]

Its okay, I think with your word, I'll be able to give it a proper chance. I think the last time it was just me not having a proper mindset, anyway. I was merely looking for something like Persona 3 Portable. Not a totally different type of RPG, though. Thank you for the other suggestions, though, I'll definitely consider them! :D

On a very different note, I've been stuck on mission 17 of MGSV for a long, long time. Haven't had the chance to play much at all. Between animanga and life in general, video gaming sometimes takes a backseat and I don't get to play much. Even though I want to! :(

Tbh, right now, I'm looking for some story-based game that'd hook me into its world right away and that can be played on mobile (android). PSP, GBA and DS games are okay, too. I tried out Ys Seven a while ago and really liked that but I somehow left it somewhere in the middle. Might go back to it, I guess...

 

[Satoshi Ookami]

You shouldn't have gone for Disagea with expectations of being similar to P3P. =D Especially since it's pretty much epitome of SRPG =)
You play Dis for grinding =D

 

[machomuu]

You play Dis for grinding =D

I would say that you shouldn't try to scare Dero away, but considering he managed to enjoy the grind known as Tartarus...that might actually be a selling point.

Tbh, right now, I'm looking for some story-based game that'd hook me into its world right away and that can be played on mobile (android). PSP, GBA and DS games are okay, too.

You should look into TWEWY, then. Either on the Android or on the DS (I've only played the DS version, but I've only heard good things about the mobile ports). It was my favorite game on the DS, and I have little doubt, on that same note, saying that it's probably the best game on the App Store or Google Play. At the very least, it's the best ARPG on that system. Easy to get into, not too long, but there's a lot to do. Definitely like nothing you've ever played.

Only drawback is that it's pricey for a mobile game, less so for a DS game. Cheaper in the former case, but things +$10's can tend to be immediate write-offs for people.

 

[derozio]

I would say that you shouldn't try to scare Dero away, but considering he managed to enjoy the grind known as Tartarus...that might actually be a selling point.

You should look into TWEWY, then. Either on the Android or on the DS (I've only played the DS version, but I've only heard good things about the mobile ports). It was my favorite game on the DS, and I have little doubt, on that same note, saying that it's probably the best game on the App Store or Google Play. At the very least, it's the best ARPG on that system. Easy to get into, not too long, but there's a lot to do. Definitely like nothing you've ever played.

Only drawback is that it's pricey for a mobile game, less so for a DS game. Cheaper in the former case, but things +$10's can tend to be immediate write-offs for people.

lol Tartarus is far from a grind. If you balance your daily routine - split daytime events with tartarus floor-time action efficiently, the game's levels usually don't force you to grind for much for exp. I'm against grinding in general, tbh, and I didn't feel it much while playing Persona 3 Portable. Nowhere near any pokemon game I've played so far, in fact. And I'm okay with those, too. Although they're irritating in that one aspect, sure. :p This post made me curious though - what are your general views on the game?

And as long as I manage to somehow get the payment done, I don't mind paying $10 for it. Or something like $14-$15 too. I have a Maestro card that gives me a lot of trouble and not credit cards. Could use paypal but paypal asks me to input data for a VISA/Master Card while making payments too - one that I don't possess. >_>' I'll try to get my hands on the android version soon, if possible.

 

[machomuu]

This post made me curious though - what are your general views on the game?

I could write it all out, but...I think past me can tell you a lot better than I can now. The me who'd just finished the game at the start of the summer. Not really as fleshed out as I would like, but it's definitely serviceable.

So...just finished Persona 3 (Portable, specifically). Thoughts (Mostly a fusion of two copypastas since the places they were originally posted in didn't really have people who played Persona with edits):

I feel like the female has the better SLs (though I was sad when I found out Yuko wasn't an SL in this one). Shame the female protag is so underrated. The more I played this, the more I realized that she would have been a great pick for the movies. Especially mine, who was sexually devious lesbian that ogled and gushed about girls with guys, got intentionally touchy-feely whenever possible, would make suggestive comments on the reg, never really got what she wanted (because the game doesn't support female-female romantic relationships, unfortunately). Ah, I'll miss playing as her, she was fun. But even apart from mine, I like her design more than aaaaangst Makoto/Minato's (props to the movie, by the way, because they really did a good job making him a likable character).

Tartarus, though...I feel the same about that as I did when I was playing FES. It's no wonder I didn't like the game for the longest time, it prided itself on a not-so-well implemented feature that already generally isn't liked. I had to make it interesting this time around so I wouldn't bore myself to death. It was good deal of what stopped my FES journey, as well as generally not caring about what was going on. The solo-squading and the mostly-Orpheus only in Portable also played a huge part in making Tartarus less than tedious because, due to how EXP works, I always felt like I was making progress. Made things fun, and leveling everyone in the endgame was fun, too, since they soared in levels. That said...no other Persona or even any Shin Megami Tensei game's on level with the amount of grind in P3, and I can't really say that that's gotten better. So still tedious, but less so.

Other than that, the story's...good. It and the characters don't really become interesting until...well, until the name Chidori enters the picture. That's when I started to like Junpei (and by the end, I ended up liking all of the main characters, and I enjoyed pretty much all of the SL characters). Really, I think that's the game's biggest fault, though. It doesn't really pick up character or story-wise until later on, two or three dozens of hours in, and that's a long time to be stringing a player on before they get to the good stuff, and that's why I stopped playing my FES file (which was 30-something hours in). I still definitely wouldn't put the characters or the story (which is darker, but I don't know if I'd call it better or more engaging) anywhere near Persona 4, and certainly not the gameplay. But it was a fun experience that, surprisingly, I don't regret despite getting to supposedly 65 hours. I, unfortunately, knew about the ending beforehand, but I still enjoyed the execution and didn't know exactly how it played out other than minor details. Now I can go on and finish Persona 4 Arena Ultimax :q.

A little edgier than I'd probably put it now, but it's still accurate.

'Course, the edge was justified. I was pretty charged.

Spoiler:

**** THE ANSWER. I'm not playing it. FUUUUUUUCK it.

It's cool that it's a continuation of the story and all and I get to see the characters again (all of which I liked by the end), but...God...

So, first off, I'm just gonna lay it out: It's one giant-ass dungeon and everyone starts at level 25 with skills they didn't have at the end of the Journey. That second thing I can forgive, but the first is just...UUUUUGH. Apparently it only has bits and pieces of story sprinkled in. Supposedly important stuff but **** that ****, I might just watch it.

The problem with this is that, apart from adding supposedly 30 hours, it defaults to hard mode which, apparently, only makes you miss more and the enemies take less damage/you take more damage- not really my type of Hard mode, it just artificially makes the game longer.

Plus, the Shuffle time is pretty alien to me because the Hard mode does some sneaky **** (or maybe it's end game stuff, idunno) and it made me realize that the Shuffle Time in Persona 3 Portable is actually the much less ****y Shuffle Time from Persona 4 (vanilla with Minor arcanas mixed in, since the Golden one was very different). So I can't even get new personas to fuse with my starting one so me and my party don't keep dying on the first two floors, they play the damn Mass Destruction Remix, and-

...Nope, nope. Ain't fun, and apparently people say it's just a long-ass grind, probably filled with frustration. I love a challenge, but this is more artificial/superficial than true difficulty and I'll just end up reading the story on the wiki or *shudder* watching it on the Youtub.

And I did. They did not want people to like Yukari after that. Or dungeon crawling.

I didn't really go into detail alot of how I felt about P3(P), but regarding Tartarus, I had fun with it only because of how I played. When I say that it's a grind, I don't mean that it has a lot of grinding in it (because I'd maxed out my Orpheus' stats about half-way through, so really, I personally didn't have to do much grinding and since I mostly soloed the game with only-Orpheus and little support from my team, I created a unique challenge for myself). What I mean is that it's just the same thing floor after floor with little variation and, for most of the game, no real goal or sanction. It's just there for training, as far as you know, and much like in Persona 4, I made it a habit to limit Tartarus exploration to only 2 or 3 days. But it's a tower that's designed to take up the majority of your playtime, which I don't think is a particularly good mechanic, especially when, ultimately, you have to go through 100+ of these floors to complete the game. I'd probably have a greater sympathy for this if there was more to do in Tartarus- if there were special rooms or if the quests got you exploring it in different ways, but it's mostly a static experience and I think they know this. After all, it wasn't in P4 and was mostly an experimental way to meld the dungeon-crawling aspect with the Life-sim part, so I do at least understand what they were getting at.

 

[YellowTemperance]

That feeling of sheer terror when you're playing with the Thaumcraft mod for Minecraft, derping around in the desert, and come across the outskirts of a Tainted Land biome is absolutely terrifying. I booked it three hundred meters in the opposite direction; I am NOT ready for that hell yet.

 

[Crackin355]

I'm so close to finishing Xenoblade Chronicles but I'm getting fatigued with it. It's so difficult to not stop after half an hour at this point, I just have to tell myself to go a little further each time I feel like taking a break. I figure grinding would be the smart thing to do when I'm almost always 2-4 levels below the enemies I'm facing but I really just can't bring myself to do it. I've had lots of trouble with bringing myself to do even the smallest amount of grinding in a video game lately, no idea why. I have this gut feeling that I have to reach the ending soon or I might just stop playing and never finish it.

 

[machomuu]

I'm so close to finishing Xenoblade Chronicles but I'm getting fatigued with it. It's so difficult to not stop after half an hour at this point, I just have to tell myself to go a little further each time I feel like taking a break. I figure grinding would be the smart thing to do when I'm almost always 2-4 levels below the enemies I'm facing but I really just can't bring myself to do it. I've had lots of trouble with bringing myself to do even the smallest amount of grinding in a video game lately, no idea why. I have this gut feeling that I have to reach the ending soon or I might just stop playing and never finish it.

Because grinding's a terrible mechanic.

No, I joke. I mean, it is, but that's not the reason. I wouldn't say Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;birth does it well, but that game's smart in that it's very simple and pretty straightforward. The remake system in particular makes rewards from battle feel worth it pretty quickly, level ups happen often, and the battles themselves are relatively brief and usually dynamic. You almost always feel like you're progressing towards something, so it just feels good to play. Then, boom, you're at the end.

With Xenoblade X, though, it has systems that build on systems with more systems. Levels aren't infrequent, but they don't happen everyday. Rewards from killing monsters' worth can varies from person to person, and because there's so many of them and so many things to use them on, you end up with a lot of junk or maybe don't even know that they have a purpose. Exploring's fun but (and this is something I have a small problem with) there's little sanction for it, as the survey rate depends on what you need to do rather than how you explore. Plus, the only way to speed up leveling is with augments, if you're lucky. I'd bet getting stuck having to grind and do generic missions to push to the end could get tedious. Mainly because the game doesn't do anything to make training particularly exciting or quick.

It's a great game, no doubt. I'm having a lot of fun with it, but I can definitely see where this could be a problem. Especially when missions or even the main story don't always boast the most attractive rewards.

---

Unrelated, the Holiday Sale 2015 badge has appeared in the Steam Badges section with a bunch of mystery placeholders. Soon, it begins.

 

[Crackin355]

I wouldn't know how the levelling in Xenoblade X is.

I guess I think about grinding as being terrible design, I feel like games should be made well enough these days that they can't cop out to making the player grind to win. A smooth progression of difficulty rather than absurd spikes. Because I want to be able to think of the game as fun rather than a chore.

Thing is, Xenoblade hasn't punished me for being 'underlevelled' because all the enemies are still very beatable, even when they gang up on you four at a time. The experience multiplier you get from beating them just makes grinding almost unnecessary and maybe even discouraged. Story-related bosses are usually not that difficult and even the ones you lose against, you can just try again knowing what attacks they have and plan accordingly.

Maybe I'll end up having to grind for the final boss because I can imagine they'll be Lv80 or more and I'm only at Lv74. I'll definitely try multiple times before I resort to that though. Unless they can deal spike damage because then I'll just give up immediately.

 

[machomuu]

I wouldn't know how the levelling in Xenoblade X is.

I guess I think about grinding as being terrible design, I feel like games should be made well enough these days that they can't cop out to making the player grind to win. A smooth progression of difficulty rather than absurd spikes. Because I want to be able to think of the game as fun rather than a chore.

Thing is, Xenoblade hasn't punished me for being 'underlevelled' because all the enemies are still very beatable, even when they gang up on you four at a time. The experience multiplier you get from beating them just makes grinding almost unnecessary and maybe even discouraged. Story-related bosses are usually not that difficult and even the ones you lose against, you can just try again knowing what attacks they have and plan accordingly.

Maybe I'll end up having to grind for the final boss because I can imagine they'll be Lv80 or more and I'm only at Lv74. I'll definitely try multiple times before I resort to that though. Unless they can deal spike damage because then I'll just give up immediately.

Well I'm a dumb. Thought you were talking about X. Either way, I feel like what I said about it was a bit off, since you're right, regardless of it being Chronicles or X, the gameplay does supplement the experience system.

I never really had a problem with being underlevelled in Xenoblade because of the sidequests and the boss enemies. And the exploration. There was always so much to do that by the time I got back around to the main quest, I was pretty damn strong. Plus, even if that was a problem, augments definitely help. I spent a lot of time with augments in Xenoblade.

I think Xenoblade half takes the openness of its world and the vast amount of things to do (because you get EXP for basically everything) into consideration. It's not really a game that can just give a steady level curve because then most people would just jump over the curve and beat any potentially threatening enemies in a snap.

 

[Crackin355]

I managed to beat it at Lv77, I got two levels from fighting up until the point of no return and then another during it. During the final boss I

Spoiler:

had to swap out Melia for Sharla for the second phase of the final fight since it was so long and I needed a consistent healer for the Bionis/Mechonis/Combo attacks. The first phase was easy, I just neglected the guardians the first time around which landed me with one death. I tried a few times with Shulk/Reyn/Melia on phase 2 but swapped the party around and slowly beat it, it probably took about 10 minutes for that phase alone. It was really difficult and leaving Shulk to handle healing with Light Heal wasn't working like it had almost the entire game. Final phase was easy, probably because of the weapon you get.

Not sure how under levelled I was since it didn't tell me what level the final boss was, but since one of the last ones you fight is Lv80, I'll assume the final boss was a little higher than 80.

I don't think I ever really went out of my way to complete side quests because a lot of them were just 'grind for enemies/materials/collectibles' and I could get some of them just by playing the game normally and killing things in my way. I don't think I ever found a good solution to spike damage, or maybe I just didn't want to bother because I hated the idea of it. I wanted to use Dunban more but he wasn't dodge tanking very effectively in the last areas of the game so I just gave up and subbed in Reyn because he was more consistent.

I did notice early in the game that fighting lower level enemies gives you basically no worthwhile experience so I guess that's how they keep you from over levelling too much. I wasn't too annoyed with the difficulty spike of the last few bosses since they're final bosses and its been so long since I've played a game where the final boss has actually been difficult. It might just be because I wasn't at a good level or maybe the bosses were legitimately tough, I don't know.

Fun game. I'm looking forward to giving X a try soon but I need a break first. That and I'll have to wait for Christmas anyway because my parents are paying for it.

 

[Necrum]

My brother showed me the trailer of the new Xenoblade, and I gotta say it looks incredible! When I get a Wii U I know I'll be checking it out. The colors were so vivid, it definitely shows off what the console is capable of.

 

[Morkula]

My brother showed me the trailer of the new Xenoblade, and I gotta say it looks incredible! When I get a Wii U I know I'll be checking it out. The colors were so vivid, it definitely shows off what the console is capable of.

I've been intrigued by it, but everything I've read and seen makes it seem like it took everything I hated about Xenoblade and made it the focus of the whole game. Lots of repetitive quests, long stretches of no story (apparently X has very little story in general), MMO elements, etc. Plus the fact it apparently takes 40+ hours before you can even use the "signature" feature of the game (mechs)...maybe I'll check it out if I ever get enough free time to dedicate to it, but for now I have a crapton of other stuff I need to devote my (fairly limited as of recently) gaming time toward.

And I still need to beat Xenoblade, so there's that too. @_@

 

[Necrum]

I've been intrigued by it, but everything I've read and seen makes it seem like it took everything I hated about Xenoblade and made it the focus of the whole game. Lots of repetitive quests, long stretches of no story (apparently X has very little story in general), MMO elements, etc. Plus the fact it apparently takes 40+ hours before you can even use the "signature" feature of the game (mechs)...maybe I'll check it out if I ever get enough free time to dedicate to it, but for now I have a crapton of other stuff I need to devote my (fairly limited as of recently) gaming time toward.

And I still need to beat Xenoblade, so there's that too. @_@

Despite having no prior experience with Xenoblade, I did feel like I was being shown a lot about the plot in just the 3 minute trailer. My god that trailer is considerably longer than it needed to be.

 

[JJ Styles]

So I've been playing and catching up to what i need to do on Fire Emblem Awakening and I finally got to one of the most enjoyable parts of the game: Shippings

I also learned sorta not the really hard way that any Character and Character support relationship that reaches S leads to Marriage... I kept pairing up Lon'qu, the soft spoken rigid as a rock Myrmidon, and Miriel, the Verbose sorta-Milf Professor for comic relief.. I kept the relationship at A though.

Sorta spoilers for those who haven't played or are having their own playthrough of FE:A so be warned

Spoiler:

Not to forget, in my current savefile, Chrom is married to Sumia via cutscene, which i didn't expect getting further from the early game, which meant that my efforts in creating the player character as Best Girl for the main protag was sorta futile now, since I always wanted Chrom x Female Avatar (don't ask ;) )

Then again, our heroes ladies and gentlemen!

- "A" level support dialogue between the two, yep. Also, my protag has pink hair. Of course. Best girls always have pink hair. Also dat blush.

Not to mention, before any of these shenanigans happened, the first support level dialogue between Female avatar and Lucina has the latter denouncing our hero for always being close to Chrom, and female avatar countered Lucina's argument by telling her that their relationship is purely professional, the typical lord and strategist partnership.. Sure female avatar sure.

and Chrom is happily married to Sumia...

Then again, I just learned. If a character is already married, they cannot get an S rank to another character. Good thing I googled since I don't like committing Adultery nor Infidelity even in a video game D: That's pretty much reserved for some other more green minded individual's wattpad account

 

[Satoshi Ookami]

GOD EATER, PEOPLE!
GOD EATER!!!!
IT REALLY HAPPENED!

 

[machomuu]

Woah, y'know, I wasn't the biggest fan of God Eater 1 (I did like it, though), but wow. Wasn't expecting to get 2 AND Resurrection (and at the same time, even), and I certainly didn't expect to see Steam releases.

Finally, the PC's horribly devoid of Monster Hunting RPGs. Or ARPGs in general. And honestly I wasn't expecting Resurrection to see the light of day in the West.