• Ever thought it'd be cool to have your art, writing, or challenge runs featured on PokéCommunity? Click here for info - we'd love to spotlight your work!
  • It's time to vote for your favorite Pokémon Battle Revolution protagonist in our new weekly protagonist poll! Click here to cast your vote and let us know which PBR protagonist you like most.
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.
    Register

Chit-Chat: Back to the Grind(stone)

Status
Not open for further replies.
machomuu said:
Honestly, the discussion as a whole bothers me. Walking Simulator or VNs are both (usually) interactive media. But they aren't games. I would not call either of them a genre or subset of games. I will gladly say that Danganronpa or Zero Escape are games that are also VNs, because there's game there. But I think, like...comparing my favorite Walking Sim, The Stanley Parable, to my favorite non-game VN, Steins;Gate, there's a clear disconnect between interaction and gameplay, and I kind of think that that's something we're quick to call something that has choices in a narrative that moves to our pace "games" because...well, there really is nothing else like it. Calling VNs and Walking Sims "games" just makes sense in that regard.

And I did originally agree with you when I was making this post in regards to interaction, but I really think that depends on what that interaction is. Because if we took something like Long Live the Queen, which is a Princess Maker VN, and took out the studying and how to spend your day, I think that would still be considered a game because it has a win-state, a lose-state, and your choices have agency over such. Looking at 999, though, I think that can be described as a VN game or just a VN, all depending whether you're playing the DS title with puzzles, or the mobile port without them, respectively.

Which is kind of why I've started looking at it as the term "video game" being limiting and antiquated or, conversely, there not being a term that covers visual media like VNs and Walking Simulators specifically (as "interactive media" is a bit too general and can cover many things, video games included).
Click to expand...
I think it might be a question of intent as much as anything else as to whether you could define these less interactive titles as video games. The difference between Danganronpa and Steins;Gate is pretty noticeable, especially considering they're both VNs. Visual novels that prioritise just telling their story over getting the player involved in that story might not really be classified as games in that regard, as player involvement is minimal.

If you have multiple choices but ultimately end up in the same place, or in a similar place - like in Steins;Gate, where all you really get from your choices is different endings - then yeah, I guess you couldn't really call that a game...you might have affected the narrative, but it was in such a negligible fashion it doesn't matter much. Sure, the ending can be radically different, but the narrative differences weren't huge getting there. If it's in something like Danganronpa - where if you make the wrong choice you lose - or even something like a dating sim - where your choices dictate whose story you follow and, beyond that, how well that story goes - I'd say there is a case to consider them as games, as you're involved in the flow of the story.

That's why I generally frown on walking simulators as a genre and FFXIII when considering whether I'd classify them as games - they're a showcase of something or other, not really something intended to be played. Something to be experencied, sure, but in a fashion dictated to you by the developer and in a very limited or restricted fashion. There isn't much room for interpretation. There isn't anything to explore, or anything hidden to uncover. No choice, no real personal investment...no game.

I don't have a huge amount of experience with VNs, and quite a bit less with walking simulators, but in my experience it's quite easy to tell with the former which ones are intended to be played and which are intended to be viewed. Asides from Steins;Gate I've not really played any VNs that haven't given me a significant amount of control over who the star of the story is, how the story flows, or given me something asides the story to occupy me.

Blargh. We've been using the same definitions for too long. We need some new ones.
 
Meloetta said:
Blargh. We've been using the same definitions for too long. We need some new ones.
Click to expand...

Interactive book dawg, I'm telling you...
 
Speaking of COD, I have been saying "this is the last one" since MW2. And yet I have bought every one since.
 
EvilChameleon said:
Speaking of COD, I have been saying "this is the last one" since MW2. And yet I have bought every one since.
Click to expand...

At least you're a real effin champion who VG should totally worship along with your murder cocktail ;)

********

Pretty interesting how i mention a little bit about VNs though the only VN that i truly played was obviously Tsukihime because of all the NSFW and Eroge elements (ya'll know that I was about to say that) along with the intrigue. And of course Arc Wade. Arcueid. And of course typical VG debates while i watch since i have absolutely nothing to say other than being a cocktail tease ;)))))))))

Perhaps i mentioned VNs out of random because this was like a final project done by some of my Computer Studies/Science friends in their final years in college years ago. That was their thesis project. Luckily they passed with flying colors, but i never got a copy or even prototype of their work.
 
Last edited:
I should mention something about VNs- but before that,
largh. We've been using the same definitions for too long. We need some new ones.
Click to expand...
Yes. Absolutely. 100%. I mean, what really is the point of a definition (or a name, for that matter) if it's arbitrary and doesn't actually help to describe anything? And it only gets worse with time.

I mean, we're at a point in time where someone could make a clear, solid argument about how Call of Duty should be considered an RPG and then go a similar way and say that Danganronpa is the greatest shooter franchise ever made.

-But as to what I was gonna say, which isn't particularly important, VNs aren't particularly characterized by choice. In fact, I daresay that the number of VNs that are literally just narratives that you read without making any choices (or where the choices are arbitrary) vastly outnumbers the ones where that is the case. That said, a lot of these don't make it out of Japan. But it's a lot of why I see VNs as their own form of Visual Media that can sometimes crossover into games if they have gameplay, but aren't inherently so. And I think that also makes a pretty clear case for Walking Sims as well. I mean, if a VN with no choice isn't a game, why should something like, say, Firewatch be? I mean, you do make decisions that change things, and you can choose where you want to go (though the story only progresses at certain points, but is that form of interaction really appropriately defined as "gameplay"?

I mean, I really don't think that something being considered or not being considered a game devalues it in any way and I think, going a different way, it could actually be better because it won't be considered based on those expectations. But I'm 100% in favor of Visual Novel being considered a medium rather than a genre or a sub-genre. Walking Sims, too, to some extent, because honestly, and I know this contradicts what I said a few years ago, but I don't think it's choice that dictates what makes a game a game. No, I think I would call a personality quiz a game or a choose-your-own-adventure book a game. They might be fun, but I feel like that's far too general and really doesn't do video games any justice. And at the same time, after some thought, I don't think that choosing to see a different ending or consequence is inherently gameplay, either. I think that's interaction, and it's a means of engagement, which, put simply, is why I'm totally in favor of Visual Novels (a medium that is vast enough to be its own thing), Video Games, and potentially Walking Sims (not really sure if it could be its own medium, but) being their own media and stemming from this idea of "Interactive Media".

Dammit, this isn't the reason I was posting here. That was supposed to be, like, 5 lines. Eh, whatever. I do think this is an important discussion because it's pretty rare that we take a look at what games really are and whether what we see as one or what qualifies as "gameplay" or like actually is. It's fun stuff, and it'll only become more relevant going forward.

---

Now to what I actually wanted to post (geez Mel, gettin' me all wordy and off-track)

Spoiler:


Thoroughly impressed with how well this is streaming. We'd previously thought that it would take hardware hacks exclusively to get streaming to run at a decent speed, but here it is, streaming wirelessly with NTR. Not bad- especially surprised at how well Hyrule Warriors runs.
 
You saying that, I did actually have more fun with Ultra Despair Girls than I have with almost any other third-person shooter...it was a bit clunky, and I DO love Mass Effect, but still, it was a great experience and I'd love to see more gameplay variety in future Danganronpa titles if that is any indication of the quality I could expect.

I also want a Neptunia game in this style focusing on Uni and Nepgear. GIVE ME MY CPU CANDIDATES GAME ALREADY DAMNIT

Also, Adventure Part 2 is up. Go post in it. I have another event planned for the near-ish future, too...maybe tomorrow or Wednesday. I'm actually planning ahead with this one since I'd need to update it daily instead of weekly, and I want to keep it going for a while...
 
Ah, Mass Effect....I can't believe I used to think that RPG was deep.
 
I wouldn't call it particularly deep...just a hell of a lot of fun at points, haha. One thing I've always loved about Bioware titles is the party dialogue, too. Being a sarcastic jerk made it all worthwhile <3

People can say what they like about the third game too, but there is no denying that the Citadel DLC was the perfect sendoff. The whole thing was beyond ridiculous. xD
 
I'll take Baldur's Gate over Mass Effect any day.

To this day Bioware has yet to top Baldur's Gate 2, despite it being the game that introduced *shudder* romances into the RPG genre.
 
Another HD collection leaked, this time two of the three Batman Arkham games. Going to be announced tomorrow. Allegedly.
 
Hey, guys, guess what? Dark Souls III actually has an easy mode.

 
Yukari said:
I don't see what the issue with Dark Souls having an easy mode is. o>
Click to expand...

Its the same crud that made some people cringe when FE Awakening had a casual mode. Purist idealogy my dear young grunt.
*************

So me and my friend were talking about how would we create- a - class and its sub-classes to help them out in their Video Game Design homework so... i offered them this idea.

The hypothetical class that everyone will play as: Technogirl - Female gamers who were endlessly persecuted and trolled in the internet by people for various reasons. Also stalked and harassed by lonely boys and grown up Minecraft lets' players. Now they take their revenge towards their haters by becoming cold, ruthless, and remorseless killers and cyber terrorists with the skills and killer instinct born out of their 1000++ Hours of playing video games and browsing the deep web.
[PokeCommunity.com] Back to the Grind(stone)


Skill trees - Small description - Signature Nodes
Power Fantasy - Technogirls specializing this tree allows them to live out their ruthless killings like the heroes and anti-heroes of video games, movies, and fiction. Specializes mostly on Melee combat, Damage resistance, SMGs, Assault Rifles, and Energy Weapons (Plasma guns) => "I WANNA BE THE GAL!", "Hero of the Storm"

Pure Pwnage - Technogirls specializing this tree allows them to become like their ESPORT idols like Faker, BoxeR, Daigo, HeatoN, and FPS DOUG. Specializes on almost all kinds of trickshots, headshots, quick scopes, no scopes, sikk micro, and montage worthy killing sprees with various firearms with an emphasis on scoped weaponry and killing noobs => "BOOM HEADSHOT!", "SURPRISE MOTHER F****ER!"

#Let's Play => Technogirls who prefer to fight not with metal as feck weaponry or those lacking in the skillz. The #Let's play specializes in supporting the team with charisma and commentary, as well as weakening the enemy with vicious rants, roasts, and epic rap battles. => "How's it goin bros!", "Like, Comment, Subscribe!"
*****************

OH BABY A TRIPLE!
[PokeCommunity.com] Back to the Grind(stone)


Ahhh Valve's old late 90's to Early 2000's GoldSRC engine. Simpler times. Also, Local Area Supermurder was a thing back in the day... none of this sitting at your home all day crud.
 
Lol Xin, That Deagle guy left after a desert eagle kill what a shame. I still expereicing resolution proglem for widescreen so I went off using old 4:3 monitor, I gonna dominating the match!!!!!!!!. I want Dota kill streak into the CS match, that sounds awesome.
 
CarcharOdin said:
GET OUT.

GET.....OUT.
Click to expand...
You're not actually serious, are you? Just checking before I launch into a tirade about it which would probably offend you if you were. It never hurts to be careful with these things~

Also, machomuu, Satoshi, you guys in particular might find this article interesting. I found it pretty awesome, and I wish all localisation teams would be this transparent and thorough when explaining the process. It might save certain individuals who have nothing to do with said process from losing their jobs...
 
killer150 said:
Lol Xin, That Deagle guy left after a desert eagle kill what a shame. I still expereicing resolution proglem for widescreen so I went off using old 4:3 monitor, I gonna dominating the match!!!!!!!!. I want Dota kill streak into the CS match, that sounds awesome.
Click to expand...

The Dota kill streak announcer voice overs are actually just voice overs from Unreal Tournament 2004 but somehow, Icefrog and Valve were able to keep those sounds for Dota2. Its nuts.

Speaking of kill streak voice overs, I'd ship in a Snoop Dog voice over in every game. League, CSGO, Call of Duty 4, Doom 4, Brutal Doom, DMC, Hyper Dimension Neptunia: Unbelievable Warfare, Touhou of Legends, and Garden Warfare: Black Ops 3.

Snoop Dogg
Snoop Dogg announcing my supermurderous bloodbaths would be ever so orgasimic. Nothing like Snoop Doggie announcing to the world about how i ripped several penises off with my murder gun/spear

Actually.. screw Snoop Dogg. We need the Brutal Doomguy's voice in EVERY GAME


Inb4VGDCCsaysThisisHowXinsoundslikeIRL
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top