6th Gen Backwards Compatible?

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

At this point in time I'm expecting that the method to move Pokémon over won't come until after the release of the games.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

I don't know why they would change it after the game is released. I believe it would cause some problems, such as cartridges released before the application not able to work with the application. Weather or not the game is backwards compatible would change how I played the game. If the game is released not backwards compatible, only for this to be changed, then I would play the game under the assumption I need to re-catch and EV train all Pokemon I have in my previous games only to find out there was no need for that. I would be more upset if Game Freak did this.

I think perhaps the problem that they are having is that downloading the application would require the internet. This isn't really a problem in today's world. Life without the internet is hard to find on modern countries (at least the one I live in). I wonder if the game will be released with a 3DS application on it. Is this possible and are there games that currently do this?

Also, are there applications today that allow users to insert a game cartridge, have the 3DS read data off the cartridge, save the data onto the 3DS SD Card, turn off the power, insert a completely different game, and have this data interact with the different cartridge. Wouldn't storing this data on a SD card cause some problems though, as far as people could insert it into their computer and hack away?

BTW I don't own a 3DS yet so I'm not familiar with all the small details of it.

 

[Aeroblast]

I hope there is another sort of Poke Transfer or something similar to transfer from Gen V to VI. I just can't have tons of shinies "rotting" on my older systems...

 

[YoshiMoshi]

I've just thought of something that I feel is a bit significant.

Game freak likes to remake games. Pokemon Fire Red Version and Pokemon Leaf Green Version, which where released in 2004 are remakes of Pokemon Red Version and Pokemon Blue Version which where released in 1998. Pokemon Fire Red Version and Leaf Green Version where Generation III games, while Pokemon Red and Blue Version where Generation I games. Generation III games where incompatible with Generation I & Generation II games. Remaking these games allowed players to fully enjoy their old games and trade their Pokemon to the most current generation. Pokemon Heart Gold and Pokemon Soul Silver which where released in 2010 are remakes of Pokemon Gold and Silver Version released in 1999.

Why does Game Freak remake old games? Who knows but it has proven to be financially beneficial. I would also assume that remaking games requires less time in development and production as creating a brand new game. This might allow Game Freak to release games within shorter time spans as creating only brand new games would increase the amount of time in between games. Thus far though it has allowed players to get Pokemon on their current Generation from games they where incompatible with because there was no other way to do so. This is where we run into a problem here. The next games down the line to get a remake are Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald Version. If Pokemon X and Y are backwards compatible then there is no need to remake these games as they will already be backwards compatible with the most current generation. Moreover people would be required to play these antique games that any new player would deem unplayable due their low quality graphics etc of today's games. A remake of these games is going to be needed. All people have to do is play the originals, transfer to Diamond/Pearl/Platinum, then transfer to White 2/Black 2, and then transfer to X/Y.

Basically if Game Freak wishes to continue remaking old games then sooner or later we are going to need a complete restart. It would make most since to have it be X/Y since we are now playing games on a whole new console. I mean I guess we could get the restart in generation 7 instead but it wouldn't make much since then because what excuse would Game Freak use if X/Y are compatible with generation 5 and Generation 7 isn't if Generation 7 is also on the 3DS? I don't see why it would be on a different system if they do make a Generation 7 for the next games because they would be unable to make a remake since X and Y would be backwards compatible.

If Pokemon X and Y aren't backwards compatible then Game Freak would be able to actually give players remakes in between Generation 6 and 7. Remakes have proven to be financially beneficial and not something they would have a reason to continue doing if X and Y are backwards compatible.

If Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald remakes are done then their originals would be compatible with the newer versions >_>. It would be like trading Pokemon from Pokemon Red to Pokemon Fire Red @_@... That would be off to say the least. Why remake games if you can just play the originals to get all the Pokemon from that game?

What do you think about these aspects?

 

[mason385]

I've just thought of something that I feel is a bit significant.

Game freak likes to remake games. Pokemon Fire Red Version and Pokemon Leaf Green Version, which where released in 2004 are remakes of Pokemon Red Version and Pokemon Blue Version which where released in 1998. Pokemon Fire Red Version and Leaf Green Version where Generation III games, while Pokemon Red and Blue Version where Generation I games. Generation III games where incompatible with Generation I & Generation II games. Remaking these games allowed players to fully enjoy their old games and trade their Pokemon to the most current generation. Pokemon Heart Gold and Pokemon Soul Silver which where released in 2010 are remakes of Pokemon Gold and Silver Version released in 1999.

Why does Game Freak remake old games? Who knows but it has proven to be financially beneficial. I would also assume that remaking games requires less time in development and production as creating a brand new game. This might allow Game Freak to release games within shorter time spans as creating only brand new games would increase the amount of time in between games. Thus far though it has allowed players to get Pokemon on their current Generation from games they where incompatible with because there was no other way to do so. This is where we run into a problem here. The next games down the line to get a remake are Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald Version. If Pokemon X and Y are backwards compatible then there is no need to remake these games as they will already be backwards compatible with the most current generation. Moreover people would be required to play these antique games that any new player would deem unplayable due their low quality graphics etc of today's games. A remake of these games is going to be needed. All people have to do is play the originals, transfer to Diamond/Pearl/Platinum, then transfer to White 2/Black 2, and then transfer to X/Y.

Basically if Game Freak wishes to continue remaking old games then sooner or later we are going to need a complete restart. It would make most since to have it be X/Y since we are now playing games on a whole new console. I mean I guess we could get the restart in generation 7 instead but it wouldn't make much since then because what excuse would Game Freak use if X/Y are compatible with generation 5 and Generation 7 isn't if Generation 7 is also on the 3DS? I don't see why it would be on a different system if they do make a Generation 7 for the next games because they would be unable to make a remake since X and Y would be backwards compatible.

If Pokemon X and Y aren't backwards compatible then Game Freak would be able to actually give players remakes in between Generation 6 and 7. Remakes have proven to be financially beneficial and not something they would have a reason to continue doing if X and Y are backwards compatible.

If Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald remakes are done then their originals would be compatible with the newer versions >_>. It would be like trading Pokemon from Pokemon Red to Pokemon Fire Red @_@... That would be off to say the least. Why remake games if you can just play the originals to get all the Pokemon from that game?

What do you think about these aspects?

You made all great points. The way i look at it I hope they restart this generation. Its a new system and it will give them an excuse to remake R/S/E. If Gen 6 is compatible with Gen 5, then it would only make sense for Gen 7 (Assuming its on 3DS) to be compatible with Gen 6. But if they do that the newer players may not want to go back to play Gen 3 and Gen 4 games

 

[JP]

I see what you're saying, and I agree to some extent that it's financially beneficial for Nintendo/GF to release remakes, but at the same time, why even bother telling the fanbase that they're working on figuring out a way to have the two systems connect for backwards compatibility? If that was their thought process for the remakes, I don't think they'd have even bothered mentioning anything about working on some sort of backwards compatibility. It's something they easily could have just kept quiet about.

Maybe they won't end up figuring something out and it'll go that route, but at the moment, I'd like to think that they're still working on the connectivity of the systems.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

I doubt they ever intended to remake any game when they saw the need to remake them. I don't think any of them were thought of before hand, and Gen 3 most likely will not get any remake for quite a while because its not a priority for them. They want to move Pokemon forward, not worry about how fans felt about their older games.

We could have done without Fire Red, Leaf Green, Soul Silver, and Heart Gold but Gamefreak saw a need to remake them.

If they are trying to get connection going, I doubt this has anything to do whether they'll do remakes. Even if we get backwards compatibility they can still remake the games if they see a need to remake them. If they don't have Backwards compatibility there is always the chance that they won't remake the games as well. Its pretty much the same thing for or against.

The games were made, not much need to make them again as the stories have been told already. From the fan's side, I wouldn't mind remakes. I do not see any need in them and I don't see how backwards compatibility plays in whether or not they are remade. They won't be needed. There won't be any scenarios where they will be needed. If Gamefreak remakes them or finds some reason to need to make them, its simply because they want to make them again. There will never be a priority on making them and they come out more like afterthoughts than a main focus.

Once X and Y is finished, they'll pretty much get started on Gen 7. They'll have other teams doing other things but the brunt of the work force will probably be put towards Gen 7 just as they were for Gen 6 when Gen 5 was finished.

As for backwards compatibility, I think everyone is over thinking things way too much hence the derail into another subject which actually has no real relationship with the current topic.

We won't know if the games are backwards compatible until they decide to tell us. I believe it was that way for Gen 3 in which we were not told and had to find out for ourselves. I don't remember seeing any propoganda for Gen 4's transfer method. Gen 5 had one promotion for porting forward which pushed its backwards compatibility when Gen 5 introduced its way to transfer the Legendary Beast and Celebii from Gen 4 games to unlock Zoroark and Zorua respectively. Other than that I don't remember much about the other transfer method. I think there may have been a smash after the games were close to releasing but by that time it really wouldn't have mattered.

Same with this one, we'll find out when, if, or how we get to transfer when they feel the need to tell us. Until then its easy to assume that we will. There are many ways in which they can set up a transfer method from the GTS to a 3DS app.

As JP said, why would they have bothered to say anything if they did not intend to have backwards compatibility. They could have found a way already and just won't tell us. Same with they haven't found a way and won't tell us until the games are released.

 

[Shield86]

But how could you have a palpark on the 3ds? Isn't there only one game slot on the 3DS?

Also you are right about that. I haven't realized that. In order to transfer from your GBA games you would need a Nintendo DS, Pokemon Diamond or Pearl or Platinum and transfer using Pal Park. You would then need to get it off Pearl Diamond or Platinum onto X or Y, which I still don't see how it can even be done. You would need to do 3 transfers. You would need a GBA, a NDS, a N3DS, your GBA Pokemon cartridge, a Pearl/Diamond/Platinum cartridge, and a X/Y cartridge, which seems like to much of a hassle.

transfer from gba was available on hg/ss and the way to tansfer pokemon on the ds is thru download play and you do not need a gba only a ds/ds lite and a 3ds

being able to bring your favorite pokemon to the newer games is one of pokemons endearing qualities so i think it will be a top priority for Gamefreak most likely thru the pal park method but i think they are cooking up an new less annoying way then pal park or otherwise they wouldnt be working on it itt would be a simple solution

Up to this point, as the majority of people know, whenever a new generation comes out, it's pretty much common knowledge that you can't really trade back and forth between generations. Of course, the only exception to this is when you actually transfer your old pokemon from the previous generation to the newer games. That said, I'm hoping for that to be changed this time around, but by no means am I getting my hopes up. GF might've said that they're working on it, but whether it's actually feasible or not is another story altogether.

I'm not expecting anything from this until the games are actually released.

you can never trade back generations because of new moves,abilities etc only foward

Not sure how accurate this is but I heard that the configuration for 3DS games and DS games are different so they can't link up by Wi-Fi.

i think he means wireless as like when you and a friend in the same area(local Play) no internet required i think download play to a 3ds app then to 3ds is how it will go

 

[Ammako]

I remember treading some where that the new region was very huge, large than any other region and that this was the reason the pokedex was split into three sections. If this is the case and this region is large than any previous region then there must be many pokemon from previous generations. It just concerns me that there may be many pokemon from previous regions and if the reason for this is because it's not going to be backwards compatible. It worries me that there's a new form of Mewtwo. At least I'm lead to believe that you need to capture Mewtwo and then evolve him some how. At least the trailer had Mewtwo evolving into this new form. This leads me to believe that you will be able to capture Mewtwo in this game. Now that I think about this. This greatly worries me. Mewtwo was obtainable in Heart Gold and Soul Silver yes? So why is Game Freak making the same legendary Pokemon obtainable in a game 3 years later? This worries me.

[...]

I don't think palpark would work and it would be some stand alone 3ds application. I see this as being the only way you could transfer. I thought in generation III the programming was completely different as far as IV values among other things and didn't allow for transfer from II to III. This time (as far as we know) there's no change in programming like this. I believe it's more of a hardware limitation of the 3DS and the only way they can get around it is a application.

[...]

This is interesting. I can't think of any solution on how to make it backwards compatible since a 3DS application wouldn't work because it would require taking out a DS cartridge while it's on and inserting pokemon x or y. Can you think of any other solution???

I wouldn't worry regarding Mewtwo. They are adding a new forme for an old legendary Pokémon, of course they would allow the player to obtain said legendary without having to get it from a previous Gen.

As for Gen I/II, the main reason why Pokémon couldn't be transfered over was because there was no physically possible way to do so. The link cable protocols for GB/C and GBA are too different to allow it.
The GBC communication protocol is half-duplex, which means it can send information and receive information, but only one at a time. The GBA's was full-duplex, meaning it sends and receive information at the same time.
This is why in Gen I/II, you would send your Pokémon over to the other player, and then it would trade over the other one. GBA games were programmed to trade both Pokémon at once, so it couldn't work properly with the GBC.
Not to mention various other differences in the protocol that I don't fully know about.

As for that last part, there is another way, but I won't take the time to explain it since it has been explained multiple times in previous posts already.

These games are targeted towards young kids who are mostly new players. Now how is a 8 year old kids supposed to collect them all? Let's call this kid Billy. Billy begs his parents for Pokemon X or Pokemon Y as $40 is a lot of money for a 8 year old kid. His parents buy one of the games for him. Because the games are backwards compatible (which I'm starting to think is impossible) Billy will have to go through a ton of work to "catch them all". If the games are backwards compatible then there will most likely be a point into having them be so and you like catching them all. Why invest time and energy in something otherwise? Billy goes online to see how much a Pokemon Sapphire cartridge would cost him. Only to find that a brand new version of this game, which is older than him , would cost him over $300.00, not to mention all the other games he would need to buy as well. Eventually it just dosen't make sense any more to buy antique games to fully enjoy new games. If our 8 year old Billy ever comes up with $300 dollars to buy this game his mouth would drop and render the game unplayable due to it's low quality graphics etc. compared to today's games and left to question how anybody played them. It's like requiring people to buy old NES games and a old NES to fully enjoy game cube games. It eventually becomes unreasonable and impossible to catch them all without a fresh start.

I don't think so.
Gen IV was backwards-compatible with Gen III, yet there was zero need to buy or even own the Gen III games to catch them all. Pokémon #001 to #493 were available at some point in either D/P, Pt or HG/SS.
Nothing prevents them from making every Pokémon available in some way in X & Y. Or if they don't, nothing prevents them from, say, remaking Ruby/Sapphire and having the missing Pokémon available in there.

While App is most practical idea, money comes into play. Why would they support making it if we have to pay for it to transfer when transferring was always free? Nintendo to the best of my knowledge may force it as a pay for app, though they may run promotions to make it free which will be good for those with the game at the time but not so much later on.

[...]

Apps would be good but money option is a bad area to explore.

I disagree.
You know how several 3DS games contain a 3DS update in them which forces a system update before being able to play the game?
Program said app into the game rom in the same way and prompt the user to install the app directly from the cartridge onto the 3DS.
If the app gets deleted/damaged somehow, it will still be inside the cartridge which means the user can re-install it at any time. This is also future-proof, because no matter when, you would be able to install the transfer app from the cartridge to your 3DS even if you were playing in 2056 (Assuming you would have a working 3DS + game, of course.)

Of course, that doesn't prevent them from purposefully making it a paid application on the eShop for profit's sake, but there are alternatives allowing it to be free for everybody.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

I disagree.
You know how several 3DS games contain a 3DS update in them which forces a system update before being able to play the game?
Program said app into the game rom in the same way and prompt the user to install the app directly from the cartridge onto the 3DS.
If the app gets deleted/damaged somehow, it will still be inside the cartridge which means the user can re-install it at any time. This is also future-proof, because no matter when, you would be able to install the transfer app from the cartridge to your 3DS even if you were playing in 2056 (Assuming you would have a working 3DS + game, of course.)

Of course, that doesn't prevent them from purposefully making it a paid application on the eShop for profit's sake, but there are alternatives allowing it to be free for everybody.

None of the 3DS updates are saved to the game though. All of the updates are saved onto the 3DS itself. While one app has shown the ability to add data to a game, none of the games with DLCs or constant updates save said data to the games themselves, unless your game is downloaded onto the system.

If you delete the App, you have to get it again. Depending on how Nintendo's shop works since its completely different from both Microsoft and Sony's, you very well may have to re-buy the app before you can download it again. I know you have to re-buy the downloads if you switch 3DS's.

So none of the apps today can actually be saved onto the physical games, making the entire idea invalid.

 

[Ammako]

None of the 3DS updates are saved to the game though. All of the updates are saved onto the 3DS itself. While one app has shown the ability to add data to a game, none of the games with DLCs or constant updates save said data to the games themselves, unless your game is downloaded onto the system.

If you delete the App, you have to get it again. Depending on how Nintendo's shop works since its completely different from both Microsoft and Sony's, you very well may have to re-buy the app before you can download it again. I know you have to re-buy the downloads if you switch 3DS's.

So none of the apps today can actually be saved onto the physical games, making the entire idea invalid.

Not what I said at all!
Many 3DS games can force installation of a specific 3DS firmware (e.g. Super Mario 3D Land.)
Similarly, X & Y could contain the data for the transfer app and prompt an installation on first boot (or through an in-game menu.)

And just because it hasn't been done yet does not mean it cannot.

Also, you don't have to re-buy your stuff if you delete a game you bought from the eShop. Only if your 3DS got damaged/lost, in which case I was told you can contact Nintendo and give them your serial number + Club Nintendo username and they'd allow you to redownload the stuff you had bought.

 

[Therizinosaurus]

im certain you will be able to transfer pokemon.

1) you need to be able to complete the pokedex. they cannot include +700 pokemon in one game, because itd be too easy to collect them through just capture. they want you to have multiple games and trading, etc. and if they didn't include them all, then theyd need to have multiple remakes, at least one that has pokemon from multiple regions in it, and thatd be stupid when they already just have gen V

2) pokemon global link has a link on it explaining that gen V global link will shut down, to be replaced by gen VI global link, BUT you will be able to transfer your personal stuff (e.g. furnature, berries) across and use your old account. why would they put that functionality in but not with the actual games

3) they haven't announced it. that doesn't mean that its not in the game. they haven't announced it because theyre purposely keeping the majority of the features a secret, and any transfer functionality is not a very exciting feature. you can rollerskate? COOL! you can ride pokemon? COOL! new mewtwo form? COOL! you can yet again transfer pokemon? uh..., yea, we saw that coming

4) theres no reason not to do it, because it will be easy, and to not include it will piss everyone off. even if they didn't let you transfer them, youll still be able to do it. send pokemon to pokecheck, then distribute them to your gen VI game via an online gts server. there are tons out there. or better yet just get a nds adapter plus, and drag and drop the files using pokegen or pokesav.

 

[Ammako]

^ @ #2: Because they're two completely different things.

I could see them releasing X/Y without every Pokémon available within them and then releasing R/S remakes to make every missing Pokémon available.
That's what FR/LG did to R/S/E and it's also what HG/SS did to D/P/Pt.

B/W were special cases, though; Some of the Pokémon were completely unavailable without transferring over from Gen IV.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

Not what I said at all!
Many 3DS games can force installation of a specific 3DS firmware (e.g. Super Mario 3D Land.)
Similarly, X & Y could contain the data for the transfer app and prompt an installation on first boot (or through an in-game menu.)

And just because it hasn't been done yet does not mean it cannot.

Also, you don't have to re-buy your stuff if you delete a game you bought from the eShop. Only if your 3DS got damaged/lost, in which case I was told you can contact Nintendo and give them your serial number + Club Nintendo username and they'd allow you to redownload the stuff you had bought.

Actually you do have to rebuy some things. I lost the data on my Pokedex, Crystal Monsters, and two Mario Titles I had previously downloaded. Went to redownload them on the 3DS I originally had them on, and every time it told me insufficient funds. I contacted Nintendo and they said I had to pay for them again even though they appeared in my list of items I had already downloaded.

Even if its an option to transfer built into the game, then you'd have no way to transfer from a 5th Gen game as the 3DS cartridge will not be able to connect to the DS cartridge. They'd have to make it a option outside of the actual games for them to effect a regular DS game cart otherwise transferring will be impossible. A third party system is going to need to be added in to allow transfer this time since its roughly the same technology case we had with Gen 2 and Gen 3 games being incompatible.

I've also tried doing that for when I got my Pikachu 3DS. They said that the systems do not support cross data transfers to prevent the customers from registering their friend's DS systems onto their Nintendo account and getting free downloads like how Sony's system ran. So if you switched 3DS's they make you pay all over again.

^ @ #2: Because they're two completely different things.

I could see them releasing X/Y without every Pokémon available within them and then releasing R/S remakes to make every missing Pokémon available.
That's what FR/LG did to R/S/E and it's also what HG/SS did to D/P/Pt.

B/W were special cases, though; Some of the Pokémon were completely unavailable without transferring over from Gen IV.

There were a lot of Pokemon not available in Gen 3 that had to be released as events. Same with Gen 4. It was impossible to get all Pokemon within one generation without the need to transfer forward. Even still, There is nothing that states that they cannot put a large majority of the Pokemon within the two games and just port forward what's left. I mean all but at least 6 Pokemon are available in Gen 5 from Gen 3. The only Hoenn Pokemon you couldn't get were the Starters and the Super Ancient Legendaries.


@Therizinosaurus

I don't think Pokecheck will be able to link up with X and Y. They'd have to crack the 3DS's code just like all the rom hackers and create a fake GTS server to link up with the new games as well. AR doesn't work with 3DS because that company can't crack the 3DS, emulators and roms don't exist yet because of the same reason. So far the 3DS' system can't link up with unofficial devices like these.

So far we also lose the ability to RNG so if they don't make it backward compatible then all of the RNG'd Pokemon become useless and everyone starts over fresh, preventing the next generation of tournaments from having flawless Pokemon effortlessly.

Could be the reason they are adding an IV and EV checking station into the game since they are eliminating the outside sources.

 

[JP]

I don't think Pokecheck will be able to link up with X and Y. They'd have to crack the 3DS's code just like all the rom hackers and create a fake GTS server to link up with the new games as well. AR doesn't work with 3DS because that company can't crack the 3DS, emulators and roms don't exist yet because of the same reason. So far the 3DS' system can't link up with unofficial devices like these.

So far we also lose the ability to RNG so if they don't make it backward compatible then all of the RNG'd Pokemon become useless and everyone starts over fresh, preventing the next generation of tournaments from having flawless Pokemon effortlessly.

Could be the reason they are adding an IV and EV checking station into the game since they are eliminating the outside sources.

Oh man, the more I think about that, the more I get bummed about the idea. Put a lot of work into my Mons', would truly suck to not be able to get them transferred over. :(

 

[Ammako]

There were a lot of Pokemon not available in Gen 3 that had to be released as events. Same with Gen 4. It was impossible to get all Pokemon within one generation without the need to transfer forward. Even still, There is nothing that states that they cannot put a large majority of the Pokemon within the two games and just port forward what's left. I mean all but at least 6 Pokemon are available in Gen 5 from Gen 3. The only Hoenn Pokemon you couldn't get were the Starters and the Super Ancient Legendaries.

A lot of Pokémon not available in Gen III that had to be relased as events? You mean Mew/Celebi/Jirachi/Deoxys, which were meant to be event-only anyway?
Sure, there is Lugia and Ho-Oh, but these were made easily available in Colosseum and XD.

As for Gen IV, the only Pokémon you couln't get without events were... the event-only legendaries!
I'll give it to you, the Regis in Platinum required the use of an Event-only Regigigas. But the point is, said event was made available in Gen IV, therefore it was available in Gen IV. Not only that, they even distributed the Regigigas without a Classic Ribbon so that you could obtain one on the GTS if you didn't have access to the in-store event (Granted, you had to have obtained a Regigigas beforehand in order to be able to get the Pokémon.)

Of course, if you can prove that there were more Pokémon that weren't available at all within the generation, I'll gladly change my view.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

A lot of Pokémon not available in Gen III that had to be relased as events? You mean Mew/Celebi/Jirachi/Deoxys, which were meant to be event-only anyway?
Sure, there is Lugia and Ho-Oh, but these were made easily available in Colosseum and XD.

As for Gen IV, the only Pokémon you couln't get without events were... the event-only legendaries!
I'll give it to you, the Regis in Platinum required the use of an Event-only Regigigas. But the point is, said event was made available in Gen IV, therefore it was available in Gen IV. Not only that, they even distributed the Regigigas without a Classic Ribbon so that you could obtain one on the GTS if you didn't have access to the in-store event (Granted, you had to have obtained a Regigigas beforehand in order to be able to get the Pokémon.)

Of course, if you can prove that there were more Pokémon that weren't available at all within the generation, I'll gladly change my view.

You couldn't get all of the starters without resetting, leaving you with the need to get more than one copy from each set Sinnoh and Johto. Super Ancients would need to be ported over if you cannot do their in game event due to lack of help from others which usually is the major complaint with the trade featured transfers.

Without a combination of at least 3 games Diamond/Pearl, Platinum, and Heartgold/Soulsilver you can't complete the National dex on any of the three. You have to restart at least 2 of them to get all the starters available on one of the copies, namely Platinum and Johto game. This requires at least 2 DS' which is a major complaint by fans. One person, its nearly impossible to do. It can be done, if they are lucky and get to go to events for downloads.

On your own, its nearly impossible to complete a Pokedex. It does include event only Pokemon as you cannot them out for this even if they are all pretty much rereleased every generation.

And they make the games that way on purpose.

 

[Ammako]

Do you make it a point to try and contradict every single thing I post?
Obviously you wouldn't be able to get all the starters without having to trade! And frankly, it doesn't matter if you cannot catch all the Pokémon within one game without the need to trade. Fact is, the Pokémon were obtainable in some form within the generation without being forced to transfer over from Gen III, even though you had to trade for many of them.
Trading has been required to complete the Pokédex (and, by extension, capture every Pokémon) since Red/Blue and will likely remain that way until Game Freak calls it quits and stops making Pokémon games.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

Do you make it a point to try and contradict every single thing I post?
It doesn't matter if you cannot catch all the Pokémon within one game without the need to trade.
Trading has been required to complete the Pokédex since Red/Blue and will likely remain that way until Game Freak calls it quits and stops making Pokémon games.

Well yes, and that's the point to backwards compatibility. I'm saying that its required that they be backwards compatible, we just have issues with current tech support between games and systems.

If they aren't backwards compatible, they'd make ways to have more Pokemon out. We do have 1.7 gigs to play with this time around as well. Can't really say that there won't be a large amount of Pokemon in the game if there isn't backwards compatibility. (I'm speaking mostly post game though)

Option to freely request GTS trade options is a good indication that a large amount will still be available this go round backwards compatible or no.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I hope they can find a way to transfer them to Gen VI as I want to transfer in my old Blaziken to Megaevolve it into MegaBlaziken.

At this point I still don't think they've found a way to transfer...