Ban List Change

[Unlimited NiGHTS]

I saw this on the Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki, so I'm not sure if it's official. However, if it is, it might help. Apparently, "Dimension Fusion" will be banned, "Return from the Different Dimension" will be restricted to 1, and "Allure of Darkness" will be restricted to 2. These changes will be effective May 9th.

Thoughts?

 

[Alter Ego]

It is official, actually. Here you have it, folks; straight from Upperdeck Entertainment's big, official site. :3

I'm a bit surprised by how they handled this one, actually. Given the earlier trend, I would have expected an instant limited stamp on Cyber Valley, but it looks like they're trying an approach of breaking up the infinite loop combos that doesn't involve screwing over Machine Duplication yet again. I approve of that, definitely, and with mass RFG recursion now being a lot harder to pull off, Allure's appeal is slightly lessened.

Meh, bye-bye OHM OTKO and Valley loop. =P Maybe now the slower tempo decks will have a fighting chance, though odds are that this will just simplify the metagame to a squabble between Heraklinos control and Lightsworn swarm/self-mill which is handily completely unbothered by these changes as it has its own draw two and plays with the graveyard rather than RFG.

So yeah, it looks like a pretty single-minded attack on the current top decks as usual, though only time will tell if this is enough to shift the tempo. Looking at the stuff from Light of Destruction, I find myself doubting that, though. xP

 

[darkace]

My complaints must've got through their mind. Cyber valley loop is so broken and with that fairy deck it is really fast.

 

[Frostweaver]

You know people, it's a mid format change not a ban list. Mid format change means "we screwed up so bad that we need some painkillers first, then do the operation after." I think that for a mid format change, it's FAR better than what I imagined. I thought that the only change is the boot for Dimension Fusion only.

I think we are expecting too much for UDE to fix everything. Leave that for september. Mid format changes are meant to make things tolerable, not perfectly enjoyable. We still cry from a lot of things, but at least it's not a bit more tolerable. We now stare at 2 decktypes (gladiator beasts and lightsworn) with unparalleled spell/trap destruction. We aren't out of the loop for "chain or die" just because Dark Armed Dragon got nailed but not dead. Dark Armed Dragon remains a reckoning force. You still got DDR to pull things off, and it's still the same trick as fusion. It's just that we now use multiple cards to do what used to be done by 1 card.

RFG once again got the title as "THE ANTI META DECK" like every single time, but never succeeded. Now with Gladiator Beasts and Lightsworm (and the plants/zombies if you must) all sharing the glaring weakness of RFG once more, while they can't screw you over with 1 dimension fusion in the side deck or whatever, wiill RFG Caius lead Monarchs back to the table?


My opinion on valley: it's the machine duplication that's broken, not valley. Valley is nothing special if it can't use its effects multiple times in the same turn because there is 3 of them at the same time. I didn't pay enough attention to lightsworn to see if they have deckspace or not to run 3 valley and 1 duplication, as I didn't check up what's the secret rares of the set yet. I only know Guardian of the Order and ANGEL 07 are 2 of the many secret rares of the set.

 

[Unlimited NiGHTS]

You know people, it's a mid format change not a ban list. Mid format change means "we screwed up so bad that we need some painkillers first, then do the operation after." I think that for a mid format change, it's FAR better than what I imagined. I thought that the only change is the boot for Dimension Fusion only.

Excuse me, but "format" and "ban list" are synonymous in this game. If a change is made to the ban list, it changes the format. Period. You can't have one without the other.

I think we are expecting too much for UDE to fix everything. Leave that for september. Mid format changes are meant to make things tolerable, not perfectly enjoyable. We still cry from a lot of things, but at least it's not a bit more tolerable. We now stare at 2 decktypes (gladiator beasts and lightsworn) with unparalleled spell/trap destruction. We aren't out of the loop for "chain or die" just because Dark Armed Dragon got nailed but not dead. Dark Armed Dragon remains a reckoning force. You still got DDR to pull things off, and it's still the same trick as fusion. It's just that we now use multiple cards to do what used to be done by 1 card.

So "Gladiator Beast" and "Lightsworn" Decks are the main Decks this format, you think? I know someone who would love to know that...

RFG once again got the title as "THE ANTI META DECK" like every single time, but never succeeded. Now with Gladiator Beasts and Lightsworm (and the plants/zombies if you must) all sharing the glaring weakness of RFG once more, while they can't screw you over with 1 dimension fusion in the side deck or whatever, wiill RFG Caius lead Monarchs back to the table?

Um, it's a "Monarch" monster. Of course people are going to play it.

My opinion on valley: it's the machine duplication that's broken, not valley. Valley is nothing special if it can't use its effects multiple times in the same turn because there is 3 of them at the same time. I didn't pay enough attention to lightsworn to see if they have deckspace or not to run 3 valley and 1 duplication, as I didn't check up what's the secret rares of the set yet. I only know Guardian of the Order and ANGEL 07 are 2 of the many secret rares of the set.

You do realize why they Limited "Return from the Different Dimension" and Forbade "Dimension Fusion", right? It's to stop "Cyber Valley" from ending the game on its own. "Machine Duplication" is only useful with "Cyber Valley" right now. That's why it wasn't touched. Sure, you have 3 "Cyber Valley" cards in Attack Position. I don't care. I have "Lightning Vortex", or "Needle Ceiling", or "Demise, King of Armageddon", or even "Evil Hero Malicious Fiend".

 

[MegaDitto]

I think the list could have been better. Restricting Dark Armed Dragon and Lightlord Dragon to 1 would have been enough.

 

[Scarlet Weather]

I think the list could have been better. Restricting Dark Armed Dragon and Lightlord Dragon to 1 would have been enough.

*face-to-floor* Er... somebody hasn't quite been paying attention to WHY Dark Armed Return is so 3vil. It had a whopping four cards that could bring back all of its giant RFG monsters, three-plus cards that could bring back one monster, and six draw cards, along with a giant scarecrow beatstick. Because that's what Dark Armed is- a scarecrow to keep your opponent from attacking your monsters in fear that you'll get the magical three and summon Dark Armed next turn, even though the odds are that you didn't draw it. Limiting the Dragon to one probably won't change that too much, and besides, it's been proved that even with Dark Armed Dragon the deck is still pretty dang powerful. Dark Armed Return is all about the massive draw power and the ability to remove your monsters from play in order to set up for a massive return. Now they've just lost all but one of their mass-summoning cards, and that one card remaining can be countered simply by chaining Waboku and requires quite an LP cost, and is only good for one turn. I think the current changes are just what was needed to take Dark Armed Dragon and change it from a horrendously broken deck to a powerful but not almighty deck. Plus, if we banned DAD now we'd be basically throwing it in the face of the players who've paid so much to get their hands on one. Much as I hate an overly-centralized metagame, I don't want to trample the heads of people who were willing to spend so much cash on a children's card game to get rid of it. Which is probably what Konami was thinking. Besides, getting rid of Dimension Fusion also screws over Shadowpriestess OTK and similar fusion-loop decks, which are also crazy-fast and are only slightly less popular than the Dark Dragon.

As for Judgment Dragon, well... limiting it to one just means that you'll sack into it a little less often. It won't really slow down the crazy-fast tempo that Lightsworn can deliver. The other Lightsworn are pretty dang powerful on their own, and Judgment Dragon just makes them CRAZY powerful. Just pack a few copies of Monster Reincarnation, and you can snap up Judgment Dragon even after you've sent it to the graveyard. But yeah, agreeing with Frosty: now that Macro Cosmos is viable again, Lightsworn is going to have a major pain in the neck.

And as for your comments on Monarchs, NiGHTS... well, as of right now NOBODY who has run them has made top two, simply because Monarch can't keep up with the crazy tempo created by Allure of Darkness and Shadowpriestess OTK-crazy-draw-decks. I actually look forward to their return to the game. But honestly, why does everyone equate "competitive" with "Monarch"? These days "Gladiator Beast" would probably be a better symbol. Anyone besides me scared to death of what they can do now that they've got Gyzarus?

 

[Unlimited NiGHTS]

And as for your comments on Monarchs, NiGHTS... well, as of right now NOBODY who has run them has made top two, simply because Monarch can't keep up with the crazy tempo created by Allure of Darkness and Shadowpriestess OTK-crazy-draw-decks. I actually look forward to their return to the game. But honestly, why does everyone equate "competitive" with "Monarch"? These days "Gladiator Beast" would probably be a better symbol. Anyone besides me scared to death of what they can do now that they've got Gyzarus?

I'm sorry, I'm just extremely biased against a Deck type that was around for much too long. It was a slightly weaker version of the old Chaos Deck. Remember "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning"?

I still need to figure out how a "Lightsworn" Deck is meant to work. I have a friend who runs LIGHT Decks, desiring to prove that they're still at least as awesome as anything DARK can offer.

 

[darkace]

i've seen it in action it swoops fast, he just needs to summon cyber valley duplicate it and say goodbye

 

[Unlimited NiGHTS]

i've seen it in action it swoops fast, he just needs to summon cyber valley duplicate it and say goodbye

...Do you ever put thought into your posts?

No. This does not work. The only way "Cyber Valley" could end the game was that "Exodia the Forbidden One" draw combination Alter Ego told you about on another thread. Thanks to the changes made to the ban list yesterday, "Cyber Valley" is no more than a stall/recovery card, and is now far less annoying. It cannot end the game.

 

[Frostweaver]

New cards on the banlist is a new format, but we receive a full banlist change every march/sept. Usually the format endures whatever "problems" that seems to be overlooked and hope that UDE/Konami fix it by march/sept. That's why I'm quite pleased that they didn't only ban dimension fusion, but did the changes to allure and RftDD as well. I don't think format and banlist are equilvalent. Banlist and metagame are equilvalent. Any change to what's popular, and what new strategies are cooked up by SJC/online forums bring changes to metagame. The format is a schedule ran by UDE/Konami in terms of when they move cards around a banlist to me.

But this argument is of so little importance because we're arguing on technical terms that don't even matter. It's like saying what's the difference between pwned and owned.


I think the format is DaD, Lightsworn and Gladiator Beast. I'm personally seeing good things for GB, because before they got problems that they can't run dark imprisoning mirror but DaD got weakened, while they CAN run light imprisoning mirror against lightsworn. The 2 decks got nothing specific they have against GB except just to be faster before gyzarus or heraklinos come out (but lightsworn is AMAZINGLY fast... seriously. Curse UDE's crazy invention of Guardian of the Order >_>)

Lightsworn mainly relies on too many special summon from graveyard, severely milling themselves for the free special summon of Judgment Dragon. Because they have so many special summon, usually they can bring back a lot of monsters after Judgment Dragon's field clearing and end the game that turn. The lv 4 lightsworn monsters all got high amount of destruction and special summoning as well while they are milling themselves for Judgment Dragon.


Cyber Valley continues to be the great support it is, just not an infinite loop. Any draw cards are considered good, and cyber valley just like that too. DDR still makes it possible for some decks to continue to use cyber valley's old tricks. If indeed what I said about some people trying out RFG again is true as the "king of the anti meta" then cyber valley will continue to do well removing scout planes and survivor as the main draw together with 2 allure of darkness for caius.

Allure of Darkness never ends games, but it's still a very threatening card whenever it's played. Cyber Valley is like that in the same way, just that it's not a spell card. I still continue to see it as a threatening force =O

 

[MegaDitto]

*face-to-floor* Er... somebody hasn't quite been paying attention to WHY Dark Armed Return is so 3vil. It had a whopping four cards that could bring back all of its giant RFG monsters, three-plus cards that could bring back one monster, and six draw cards, along with a giant scarecrow beatstick. Because that's what Dark Armed is- a scarecrow to keep your opponent from attacking your monsters in fear that you'll get the magical three and summon Dark Armed next turn, even though the odds are that you didn't draw it. Limiting the Dragon to one probably won't change that too much, and besides, it's been proved that even with Dark Armed Dragon the deck is still pretty dang powerful. Dark Armed Return is all about the massive draw power and the ability to remove your monsters from play in order to set up for a massive return. Now they've just lost all but one of their mass-summoning cards, and that one card remaining can be countered simply by chaining Waboku and requires quite an LP cost, and is only good for one turn. I think the current changes are just what was needed to take Dark Armed Dragon and change it from a horrendously broken deck to a powerful but not almighty deck. Plus, if we banned DAD now we'd be basically throwing it in the face of the players who've paid so much to get their hands on one. Much as I hate an overly-centralized metagame, I don't want to trample the heads of people who were willing to spend so much cash on a children's card game to get rid of it. Which is probably what Konami was thinking. Besides, getting rid of Dimension Fusion also screws over Shadowpriestess OTK and similar fusion-loop decks, which are also crazy-fast and are only slightly less popular than the Dark Dragon.

As for Judgment Dragon, well... limiting it to one just means that you'll sack into it a little less often. It won't really slow down the crazy-fast tempo that Lightsworn can deliver. The other Lightsworn are pretty dang powerful on their own, and Judgment Dragon just makes them CRAZY powerful. Just pack a few copies of Monster Reincarnation, and you can snap up Judgment Dragon even after you've sent it to the graveyard. But yeah, agreeing with Frosty: now that Macro Cosmos is viable again, Lightsworn is going to have a major pain in the neck.

And as for your comments on Monarchs, NiGHTS... well, as of right now NOBODY who has run them has made top two, simply because Monarch can't keep up with the crazy tempo created by Allure of Darkness and Shadowpriestess OTK-crazy-draw-decks. I actually look forward to their return to the game. But honestly, why does everyone equate "competitive" with "Monarch"? These days "Gladiator Beast" would probably be a better symbol. Anyone besides me scared to death of what they can do now that they've got Gyzarus?

I have seen the decks and how they work. I believe I do.