Building another team

[Handsome Samurott]

Please comment on the following team I am putting together. What do you like? What do you think will work? What do you think may not work? What improvements can I make?

Mawile
Item: Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate/Huge Power
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpD or 252 HP, 180 Atk, 40 Def, 36 SpD
Moves:
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Protect or Iron Defense

Sableye
Item: TBD
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
Moves:
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Knock Off

Porygon2
Item: Eviolite
Ability: Trace
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
Moves:
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Magic Coat or Thunderbolt
- Tri Attack or Ice Beam

Vaporeon
Item: TBD
Ability: Water Absorb
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpA
Moves:
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Scald

Salamence
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Naive
EVs: TBD
Moves:
- Aqua Tail
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Dragon Pulse

Serperior
Item: TBD
Ability: Contrary
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
Moves:
- Synthesis
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power (Rock)
- Dragon Pulse or Gastro Acid or Glare or Aromatherapy or Grassy Terrain

The core of my team will consist of Mega Mawile as a bulky attacker, Sableye as a lead, and Porygon2 as a wall. I think these three have great synergy for a number of reasons. First, they have good typing. Second, Mawile and Porgyon2 are very bulky, and Sableye is an annoyance that can cause a lot of problems. Third, Mawile's Intimidate and Sableye's Will-O-Wisp can weaken physical moves, especially Fighting type moves, directed at Porgyon2, and Sableye can switch in to protect Porygon2 from Fighting type moves.

As for the rest of the team, Vaporeon is present to provide healing support to teammates. It has good typing, solid defenses, and massive HP to restore its own health or the health of its teammates. Normally I run Toxic in place of Heal Bell, but I think Heal Bell will be critical for this team. Also, Vaporeon can switch in to absorb Fire type attacks directed at Mawile or to switch in to Water type attacks to restore its own HP; and even though its SpA will not be its shining point, it will be able to deal decent damage to Fire types and cripple physical attackers with Scald. Salamence is present to be a mixed attacker. It has wonderful synergy with Mawile. It can absorb Fire type attacks directed at Mawile, and its Intimidate ability compunds with Mawile's Intimidate ability. Also, Mawile covers Salamence's Dragon weakness, and Salamence can switch in to protect Mawile from Earthquake or other Ground type moves. I theoretically chose Serperior for type coverage - I had no teammate to deal with Water types - but my deeper reasons were my love for Serperior and its beautiful ability, Contrary. It has solid defenses and good speed, and I am interested in testing its viability for competitive play.

As for items, Mawile will obviously have the Mawilite to mega evolve, although I understand it is critical to time its mega evolution right in order to get the most out of its Intimidate ability. Porygon2 will hold the Eviolite in order to maximize its defenses and its capabilities as a wall. I am not sure what to put on Sableye and Vaporeon. Leftovers is the natural choice for both of them, but if I want to be fair (and I always strive to be), only one of them can hold Leftovers. Whichever holds Leftovers, which item should the other teammate hold? I have never liked the Choice items, but the Choice Scarf seems to be necessary for Salamence to be viable, otherwise he could very easily be outclassed because of his mediocre speed. A friend also suggested trying an Assault Vest on Salamence to see if it helps him withstand certain hits. Finally, I am totally unsure about what item to put on Serperior. Items I considered include the Expert Belt, Life Orb, Scope Lens, Wise Glasses, and Rocky Helmet.

As for EVs, the spreads are fairly routine except for Mawile and Salamence. The first EV spread for Mawile will maximize its attack, but the second spread will give it more bulk. Salamence needs 252 in Spe, but should I split the remaining 252 between Atk and SpA and put 4 in SpD?

As for moves, the sets are fairly standard and straightforward except for Porygon2 and Serperior. Magic Coat will give Porygon2 much more staying power as a wall, and Tri Attack would give it a powerful STAB move with nifty side effects. However, Magic Coat may not be necessary with Vaporeon having Heal Bell; although if I engage in a 3-on-3 battle and use Porygon2 but not Vaporeon, Porygon2 could be in trouble. Also, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam provide much better coverage than Tri Attack, and without Porygon2 my team would not have Ice Beam, which is virtually a necessary attack. The only move for Serperior that I am not sure about is Dragon Pulse. It is a good move with solid power that would easily take down Dragon types, especially in a one-on-one battle against Goodra, but I already have Salamence with Dragon Pulse and Mawile with Play Rough. Any of the other moves I listed could viably replace Dragon Pulse: Gastro Acid to suppress abilities (great against Prankster, Magic Bounce, Magic Guard, Mold Breaker, Sap Sipper), Glare to help Porygon2 spread paralysis, Aromatherapy to assist Vaporeon in curing status conditions, and Grassy Terrain to give Serperior further HP recovery and boost Leaf Storm even more in conjunction with Contrary. As for Salamence, the perennial question is Flamethrower vs. Fire Blast and Dragon Claw vs. Dragon Pulse vs. Draco Meteor. If I opt for Draco Meteor, the remaining three moves must be physical in order for him to remain viable.

Thank you for your help!

 

[PlatinumDude]

Mega Mawile is banned to Ubers. The next-best Steel or Fairy attackers are Scizor, Azumarill:

Scizor:
-U-turn
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-Pursuit/Knock Off
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 SDef
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Technician

Azumarill:
-Waterfall
-Play Rough
-Aqua Jet
-Knock Off/Superpower
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 164 HP/252 Atk/92 Spe (Choice Band) or 240 HP/252 Atk/16 SDef (Assault Vest)
Item: Choice Band/Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power

or
-Belly Drum
-Aqua Jet
-Play Rough
-Knock Off
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 92 HP/252 Atk/164 Spe
Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power

Mega Sableye is better than regular Sableye because the former has Magic Bounce to bounce back hazards. It also acts as a win condition vs. stall teams thanks to said ability. Against offensive teams, Sableye can hold off of Mega Evolving until it has crippled a physical attacker this team struggles with by using Will-o-Wisp:
-Calm Mind
-Dark Pulse/Snarl/Shadow Ball
-Will-o-Wisp
-Recover
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Sablenite
Ability: Prankster

Porygon2 is more suited for stall teams, as it has a tendency to be passive. Heatran is a good alternative:

Heatran:
-Lava Plume
-Toxic
-Taunt/Roar
-Stealth Rock/Earth Power/Protect
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/192 SDef/68 Spe
Item: Leftovers

or
-Lava Plume/Fire Blast
-Taunt
-Toxic
-Stealth Rock
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248 HP/8 SAtk/252 Spe (Lava Plume) or 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe (Fire Blast)
Item: Air Balloon/Leftovers

Sylveon is a better Wish-passer than Sylveon because even though it passes smaller Wishes, it has more offensive presence with Hyper Voice:
-Wish
-Protect
-Hyper Voice
-Heal Bell/Toxic
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate

Regular Salamence is bad in OU because it's horribly screwed over by Fairies and it must rely on the inaccurate Iron Tail to deal with them. The best Choice Scarf users to use at the moment is Therian Landorus because of its utility with Intimidate and it provides a neat U-turn core with Scizor. Terrakion, Keldeo and Garchomp also come in close:

Therian Landorus:
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge/Rock Slide
-U-turn
-Knock Off/Superpower/Explosion
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

Terrakion:
-Stone Edge
-Close Combat
-Earthquake
-X-Scissor/Rock Slide
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

Keldeo:
-Hydro Pump
-Secret Sword
-Icy Wind
-Scald
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

Garchomp:
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge/Rock Slide
-Fire Blast/Dragon Claw
Nature: Naive/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

Serperior pretty much needs Dragon Pulse to deal with opposing Dragons (who would wall its other unboosted attacks):
-Leaf Storm
-Hidden Power (Fire)
-Dragon Pulse
-Giga Drain/Taunt/Knock Off
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Contrary

 

[Handsome Samurott]

Thank you for your response.

1. I play on WiFi, either 3-on-3 or 6-on-6, so I do not follow Smogon's rules or tiers, nor do most people who play WiFi battles. Consequently, your point about Mega Mawile is moot.

2. I agree Mega Sableye is better than Sableye because of Magic Bounce, but if I am using Mega Mawile, I unfortunately do not have access to Mega Sableye. I could, however, choose to build a team around Mega Sableye and replace Mega Mawile with something else. Whether or not I do that depends on how well my team works in practice.

3. Porygon2 is perfect as a wall, whether on a stall team or on a balanced team, which is what I am constructing. As for Heatran, I avoid all legendary Pokemon because they are useless unless you hack for perfect IVs, which I do not, because that is cheap and underhanded. Perhaps you and your Smogon kin disagree about hacking, though.

4. Sylveon is indeed a wonderful cleric, but the reasons I chose Vaporeon are because I have no Water type on my team and because a friend of mine is planning to use Sylveon as a cleric and I do not want to copy her. Other clerics I considered were Umbreon and Florges, but I am worried about Foul Play not having enough coverage, and I am concerned about Florges' low HP for passing Wishes.

5. As for Salamence, only an idiot would try to pit Salamence against a Fairy type. That is what I would have Mega Mawile with Iron Head for. The point I made about legendaries in remark #3 stands for Landorus, Terrakion, and Keldeo as well. Garchomp is an excellent choice but does not jive well with my team. As for Choice Scarf users, I am not actively looking for a Choice Scarf user. I simply brought up Choice Scarf as it pertains to Salamence and his viability.

6. As for Serperior, I agree that Dragon Pulse may be very important. I will use it with and without Dragon Pulse to see which way it fares better in general.

Anyone else with comments, insights, recommendations, etc?

 

[PlatinumDude]

Thank you for your response.

1. I play on WiFi, either 3-on-3 or 6-on-6, so I do not follow Smogon's rules or tiers, nor do most people who play WiFi battles. Consequently, your point about Mega Mawile is moot.

2. I agree Mega Sableye is better than Sableye because of Magic Bounce, but if I am using Mega Mawile, I unfortunately do not have access to Mega Sableye. I could, however, choose to build a team around Mega Sableye and replace Mega Mawile with something else. Whether or not I do that depends on how well my team works in practice.

3. Porygon2 is perfect as a wall, whether on a stall team or on a balanced team, which is what I am constructing. As for Heatran, I avoid all legendary Pokemon because they are useless unless you hack for perfect IVs, which I do not, because that is cheap and underhanded. Perhaps you and your Smogon kin disagree about hacking, though.

4. Sylveon is indeed a wonderful cleric, but the reasons I chose Vaporeon are because I have no Water type on my team and because a friend of mine is planning to use Sylveon as a cleric and I do not want to copy her. Other clerics I considered were Umbreon and Florges, but I am worried about Foul Play not having enough coverage, and I am concerned about Florges' low HP for passing Wishes.

5. As for Salamence, only an idiot would try to pit Salamence against a Fairy type. That is what I would have Mega Mawile with Iron Head for. The point I made about legendaries in remark #3 stands for Landorus, Terrakion, and Keldeo as well. Garchomp is an excellent choice but does not jive well with my team. As for Choice Scarf users, I am not actively looking for a Choice Scarf user. I simply brought up Choice Scarf as it pertains to Salamence and his viability.

6. As for Serperior, I agree that Dragon Pulse may be very important. I will use it with and without Dragon Pulse to see which way it fares better in general.

Anyone else with comments, insights, recommendations, etc?

If you insist on playing Mega Mawile, Iron Defense isn't worth it; only Mega Slowbro can really make use of it because of Shell Armor making it immune to critical hit hax:
-Swords Dance
-Iron Head
-Play Rough
-Sucker Punch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 132 HP/252 Atk/124 Spe
Item: Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate

As of Gen VI, all legendary Pokemon that are encountered are guaranteed to have 3 perfect IVs of 31, making it easier for you to soft-reset for one with good IVs. Just because a Pokemon is legendary doesn't mean it's overpowered. Just look at Articuno or the Regis. Articuno has a bad defensive typing and it's not very strong. Regirock and Regice are weak to common types, Registeel is rather passive and Regigigas is outright crippled by its ability.

Umbreon and Florges are really terrible because the former is very passive and Mandibuzz outclasses it, while the latter is straight-up outclassed by Sylveon and Clefable. If you want a Water Pokemon that badly on the team, use Azumarill. It may not be as strong as Mega Mawile, but it's strong enough to get the job done.

Garchomp > Salamence because the former is bulkier and has STAB on Earthquake, which allows it to chunk Fairies harder than Salamence can. Stone Edge still hits the occasional Togekiss hard.

 

[Handsome Samurott]

After thinking about the ORAS metagame, thinking about the comments made by PlatinumDude, and reading the recent rant about Salamence, I decided that I needed to change my team in some significant ways. I am open - even if it is difficult at times - to receiving your feedback regarding my latest development. When commenting, please take account of and address the notes attached to the team list, which are indicated by the numerical superscripts with their corresponding notes at the bottom.

Serperior¹ @ Focus Sash
Ability: Contrary
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moves:
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power (Fire)²
- Giga Drain³

Heatran⁴ @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Timid/Modest⁵
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Moves:
- Stealth Rock⁶
- Lava Plume/Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Taunt

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Moves:
- Thunder Wave⁷
- Ice Beam⁸
- Thunderbolt⁸
- Recover

Sableye⁹ @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster/Magic Bounce
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Moves:
- Calm Mind
- Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp

Togekiss¹⁰ @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Bold¹¹
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Moves:
- Nasty Plot¹²
- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere
- Heal Bell¹³

Terrakion¹⁴ @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Moves:
- Close Combat¹⁵
- Stone Edge¹⁶
- Earthquake¹⁷
- Iron Head¹⁸

1 I am using Serperior because I like him and because I want to test his viability for competitive play.
2 Or HP Ground or HP Rock. Whether or not I run HP at all depends on whether or not I can find someone to breed a Serperior with the proper IVs and HP. Otherwise, I will replace HP with Gastro Acid, Glare, Grassy Terrain, or Knock Off.
3 Whether or not I run Giga Drain depends on whether or not I run HP. Otherwise, I will replace Giga Drain with Synthesis.
4 Heatran is intended to complement Serperior, absorbing Fire, Flying, Poison, and other attacks directed at Serperior, who can absorb Ground and Fighting attacks directed at Heatran. Heatran is virtually a necessity if I choose not to run HP (Fire) on Serperior, and he will help deal with (Mega) Charizard, Talonflame, and other Fire and Flying threats using Stealth Rock.
5 This is the theoretically correct nature to run. However, I caught a 5 IV (everything except SpD) Quirky nature Heatran that I plan to use, unless someone wants to donate a 5 or 6 IV Heatran with the proper nature.
6 Stealth Rock is the primary move in this slot. However, I do have a friend whom I will play against, and she has two Fairy types on her team and no Fire or Flying types. So, against her, I plan to replace Stealth Rock with Flash Cannon.
7 Thunder Wave is to provide speed support for Porygon2 and the rest of the team, since my team does not operate on speed. It also provides valuable support to Togekiss for para-flinching. Furthermore, my friend (see previous point) is using a Magic Guard Clefable, and paralysis is the only status condition that annoys Magic Guard Clefable, since as of Gen 6 it is no longer immune to the effects of paralysis.
8 Magic Coat would give Porygon2 more staying power as a wall, and Tri Attack has STAB and very nifty side effects. But Ice Beam and Thunderbolt seem to be necessary coverage moves.
9 I took PlatinumDude's advice and exchanged Mega Mawile for Mega Sableye, not because Mega Mawile is banned (I don't play by Smogon's rules or in their tiers) but because so many teams in Gen 6 are stall, wall, status, and hazard oriented, and it is critical to have an answer to this prevalent and major trend in the current metagame. Mega Sableye handles this beautifully with Magic Bounce. He also has good synergy with Porygon2 and the rest of the team.
10 Togekiss provides good coverage and can switch in and out for Heatran (Ground and Fighting type moves), Porygon2 (Fighting type moves), and Sableye (Fairy type moves). Also, it can provide valuable healing support with Heal Bell. Plus, in conjunction with Porygon2, a para-flinching strategy can still be effective.
11 Bold as opposed to Modest or Timid to give it greater bulk and make it a tank.
12 Nasty Plot is a necessity because of no investment, in terms of nature or EVs, in SpA. I could dispense with Nasty Plot if I run a Modest or Timid nature and invest 252 in SpA.
13 Dazzling Gleam would be a perfect coverage move, but Heal Bell is necessary to keep my team free from status conditions, which are dominating the current metagame and which would hinder my game plan.
14 The final member of my team is open to discussion. I was able, by pure luck, to acquire a Jolly nature, 4 IV (HP, Atk, Def, Spe) Terrakion, which would be a good fit for my team. He is fast, hits hard, and provides valuable Rock and Fighting coverage. On the other hand, I was considering using Sylveon as a cleric with Wish, Protect, Heal Bell, and Hyper Voice. The appeal of Sylveon is that it can provide Wish support to teammates, something currently lacking on my team. Also, Pixilate Hyper Voice has huge offensive presence and can break through Substitutes, which are widespread this Gen. Finally, by Sylveon serving as a cleric, that frees up Togekiss to carry Dazzling Gleam or Thunder Wave.
15 Or Sacred Sword, which is generally inferior but has the advantage of more PP and ignoring the target's defense stat changes.
16 Or Rock Slide, which is weaker but more reliable in a pinch.
17 Earthquake for coverage, but it could be replaced with Rock Slide.
18 Or Poison Jab. Iron Head overall has better coverage and can take down most Fairy types, such as Clefable, Florges, and Sylveon, but Poison Jab is better for dealing with Azumarill.
OTHER NOTES:
I am really interested in using Terrakion, but without Sylveon, I have nothing to provide Wish support, unless I drastically alter Togekiss' move set or eliminate Serperior altogether and replace it with a cleric, and I have nothing to bypass Substitute, which I have run into a lot.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Serperior is too bulky for Focus Sash. It needs the extra power Life Orb brings to it. Fire is the best Hidden Power type for Serperior to have so it won't be walled by non-Heatran Steels.

 

[Nah]

Contrary's made Serperior a lot better now so there's no harm in trying it. Unfortunately it's walled depending on what Hidden Power type you use. Without Fire you're screwed by Scizor and Ferrothorn. Without Ground Heatran walls yo ass. With Rock you can't murder Talonflames on the switch-in. I use HP Ice on mine cuz I'm a lazy motherfucker lol (at least it hits Garchomp/Dragonite/Salamence harder than Dragon Pulse and still hits Grass types). So which Hidden Power type you use is up to you. Certainly keep Giga Drain though since after a while you won't need to spam Leaf Storm any more and the healing is great.

You can actually run a 4HP/252SpA/252Speed spread on your Togekiss with that set. It has pretty good natural bulk and going with a more offensive spread allows it to break stall more easily. You can alternatively run the defensive paraflinch set and give Porygon2 Toxic instead of Thunder Wave.

If Substitute is that worrisome for you, you could possibly give up one of Terrakion's coverage moves and use Taunt (and go with a different item). You do already have Taunt on Heatran, but if it's dead or you don't wanna switch it gives you another poke to stop subs with.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Contrary's made Serperior a lot better now so there's no harm in trying it. Unfortunately it's walled depending on what Hidden Power type you use. Without Fire you're screwed by Scizor and Ferrothorn. Without Ground Heatran walls yo ass. With Rock you can't murder Talonflames on the switch-in. I use HP Ice on mine cuz I'm a lazy motherfucker lol (at least it hits Garchomp/Dragonite/Salamence harder than Dragon Pulse). So which Hidden Power type you use is up to you. Certainly keep Giga Drain though since after a while you won't need to spam Leaf Storm any more and the healing is great.

You can actually run a 4HP/252SpA/252Speed spread on your Togekiss with that set. It has pretty good natural bulk and going with a more offensive spread allows it to break stall more easily. You can alternatively run the defensive paraflinch set and give Porygon2 Toxic instead of Thunder Wave.

If Substitute is that worrisome for you, you could possibly give up one of Terrakion's coverage moves and use Taunt (and go with a different item). You do already have Taunt on Heatran, but if it's dead or you don't wanna switch it gives you another poke to stop subs with.

@Platinum: Serperior's not really what I'd call bulky. It's not frail, but LO eats away at it even though you have Giga Drain, and the boosts from Contrary usually give you enough firepower imo.

I still don't think Focus Sash works well with Serperior; it doesn't get OHKOed that easily. It's also not that strong unboosted, meaning it needs the extra power Life Orb grants.

 

[Handsome Samurott]

So would you guys agree that, in general, Serperior, Heatran, Porygon2, Mega Sableye, and Togekiss can make a viable team? Also, do you think I should complement this team with Terrakion or Sylveon, and why? Finally, do you think I will be OK using an Outstanding potential, 5 IV, Quirky nature Heatran? Thank you for your help!

 

[PlatinumDude]

Finally, do you think I will be OK using an Outstanding potential, 5 IV, Quirky nature Heatran? Thank you for your help!

Neutral natures are a no-go in competitive play because they do nothing beneficial to a Pokemon's stats. Heatran generally uses Calm, Modest or Timid as the natures.

 

[Handsome Samurott]

So then what can I replace Heatran with? I only have a 5 IV Quirky and can't get another one in-game.

 

[PlatinumDude]

So then what can I replace Heatran with? I only have a 5 IV Quirky and can't get another one in-game.

Just a tip: save before you catch any stationary Pokemon. If it's not up to your standards, don't save; reset the game.

Anyway, specially defensive Excadrill is a decent alternative. There are times when Sableye can't afford to Mega Evolve and Excadrill is a backup way to get hazards down and get rid of opposing ones:
-Earthquake
-Iron Head
-Rapid Spin
-Stealth Rock
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker

 

[Handsome Samurott]

OK. Thank you for the suggestions. I just figured, how likely is it that I'm going to catch an outstanding potential, 5 IV legendary Pokemon? I did get Alpha Sapphire for Christmas from my dad. Maybe I will play through that real fast to get some super good legendaries and transfer them to my Omega Ruby.