Coming out as an Otherkin

[Kanzler]

You asked how it's offensive to trans* folks, but you just did what causes the offense - equating the two. It's bad enough when real, proven types of marginalization try to compare themselves to other types of marginalization; it's worse when the marginalization is unproven and not accepted as an identity. In addition, I would argue that pedophilia often says the same things you did, that people rejected homosexuality and polysexuality (which isn't true, by the way) for a long time, and therefore pedophilia must be accepted as well. I want to make this clear: I am not accusing you of being a pedophile; my argument is simply that your logic can be easily applied to something that's clearly abhorrent, with no variation whatsoever. So what makes your argument different from that argument?

I don't think "accepting" something as socially acceptable is the same as "accepting" it as a "valid" identity to have. I really think pedophiles are genuinely pedophilic. Perhaps you believe otherkin to be a fantasy, but pedophilia surely isn't. We "accept" homosexuality and pedophilia to the extent that we accept that they are genuine variations of sexual attraction and identity that comes out of that kind of attraction. We're not accepting (ITT) otherkin because we don't think it's real enough.

 

[Satan.EXE]

Homophobia has an ebb and flow throughout history, it hasn't been rejected all of history and accepted recently, that was my point; in the times of the Greeks and Romans, homosexuality was normal, for example. Homophobia is certainly a problem today and has been for generations, but it was accepted in the past.

I still don't understand the line between magick and physical shifting - is this interpretation of magick merely in the mind, with no effects on the natural world? If someone spoke about their beliefs that their magick influenced the real world, would they be similarly banned from speaking about it because it's physically impossible? If not, would accepting physical impossibility through magick necessitate accepting physical impossibility through shifting? I never implied that it was Satanic or had to do with sacrifice, but my understanding has always included physical effects on the real world.

Unfortunately, trying to link your experience to transgender issues and imply that those who accept one must accept the other does veer into transphobia. Transgenderism is not your issue; you don't have the right to co-opt its supporters for your own cause. Claiming that one's brain is wired in such a way that a person is a human male instead of a human female is incredibly different from claiming that one's brain is wired in such a way that a person is a fictional race male instead of a human female. Saying you know a transgender person that is also otherkin isn't really relevant; or, if anything, it's no more relevant than a person who says something sexist and claims it's okay because they love their wife. Understanding the nuances of marginalization requires more than one person expressing an opinion; I encourage you to do your own research on the topic, beyond blogs and forums and into the more academic side of things.

okay, now I understand your point there. I do sincerely hope one day humanity will be own and accepting in all senses of the words.

Physical shifting is something that by the world's laws would be impossible. The average use of magick in this world equates to things like burning incense, carrying certain types of rocks, living special candles, etc. A lot of it is focused primarily on making one's life more enjoyable, the actions are sort of like prayers to mother earth.

I'm not saying accepting one means accepting the other, nor am I attempting to "pull supporters". I'm merely stating the similarities of the struggles.


Man, this discussion takes a lot out of me. I think I'll take my leave, though that doesn't mean the discussion has to end. Merely leaving my chair and heading home, so to speak.

 

[Tek]

But to say the existence of Otherkin/reincarnation is impossible is flat-out ignorance. There's no way to prove the validity of 'kin, nor is there any way to disprove it. You can reject it, puts psychology labels on it, call the entirety of the whole community crazy, but in the end it's only your opinion, because you can't confirm it.

I've seen this many times. The claim that "Since x or y thing is non-logical and cannot be dis/proven, it must be a higher spiritual reality." It's basically the catchphrase of all things New Age, and it is damaging to the reputation of authentic spirituality (which was already in tatters after the major religious institutions got done with it).

The fact is, when it comes to non-logical phenomena and non-logical ways of knowing, some things are pre-rational magical fantasy and some things are trans-rational genuine mystical insight.



The difference between the two is that trans-rational thought both transcends logicality and includes logicality within its scope, while pre-rational thought is purely based on authority claims, power claims, or good old superstition and fantasy. Logic and reason never enter the realm of pre-rationality.

As a concrete example, think of a ceremony, perhaps a wedding or a trial, in which a Bible is carried down an aisle towards the front of a room. Pre-rational thinking sees a magic object that has power over people, and were one to lie after swearing upon the Bible, bad things would surely come one's way as punishment from beyond. Rational thinking sees a symbolic gesture, and knows that while the court will levy a punishment for lying under oath, the Bible itself cannot do so. Post-rational thinking recognizes that the Bible is many things to many people, that there are actually multiple Bibles arising - a different Bible in each different type of awareness, each one real, but some more 'complete' or more 'full' or than others.

The pre-rational thinker sees only the magic token, and in his world logic and reasoning have no power. The post-rational thinker recognizes that while spiritual realities can exist, they are constrained in some ways by the realities present at the level of rationality.



Please don't think that I'm saying anyone who holds New Age beliefs (or other similar beliefs) is underdeveloped or backwards and stupid. I'm using caricatures and simplifications to make my point more clear. I know some very intelligent, very good people who think that crystals have energies and such because of the structure of the atoms, and that they can literally feel the actual emotions of others. I won't get in to debunking New Age beliefs, though, I could go on for hours pointing out fallacies, half-truths, misinformation, and misperception.

We don't know everything. But we do know many things. And though we cannot eliminate every possibility, we can eliminate some. There are many parts of the belief system of Otherkin that can be shown to be false or misguided.

Yet you appear to believe that not only are we unable to disprove your beliefs, but that we are misguided for trying to do so. However, the rational mind cannot help but look for evidence to support its claims or the claims of others.

Which leads into....

I didn't necessarily write this OP for it to become a debate on the validity of the group, though, it was merely for a bit of awareness. I came out as what I am, and I'm happy with just that.

Like Oryx said, debates are what we do here. At this point, it's going to get discussed whether you participate or not - we all come here to discuss things.

You as a person, I'm ok with, and I don't judge you negatively for believing what you do. That's not going to stop me from pointing out the misconceptions and outright falsehoods involved with this belief system.

It's not very believable, and I get that. But don't think a lot of us asked for this; this form of rejection and mockery is all over. Otherkin don't 'choose' to be Otherkin because they want to feel special. Things happen to make them believe what they are. Even Fictionkin (the ones based on fictional characters). Even I have difficulty believing in them, but I'm not going to deny their existence, because I can't. There are infinite possibilities out there, who's to say that isn't one of them, somewhere?

Why is it that all things are possible - including someone being the reincarnation of a fictional character - but the one thing that you will not accept as possible is that maybe all of this has some explanation aside from Otherkin? If you are really open to every possibility, then you are open to the possibility that your view is not the correct view.

You contradict yourself by saying that everyone needs to be more accepting of your view, but when reasonable explanations are put forth, you roll your eyes and say "Oh here we go with this crap again, don't you people get it?"

 

[Skymin]

In fact, I know that Silver was initially on this website at some point, though I'm not sure where or who he was, what username he was under.

I don't mean to be mean, but I'm not sure why you'd lie about this. You already deduced what user account that Silver was on and I confirmed it for you.

 

[Shining Raichu]

I'm a really open-minded person, but I've looked into otherkin on Tumblr quite a bit and there are people out there who think they're microwaves. I'm out at that point.

 

[Shining Raichu]

No, I'm talking the electronic device that cooks your food lol.

I remember this guy said that he fed off microwaves (as in the frequency) and it just gets weirder from there. He wasn't trolling either, he was serious.